My apology to Izaw

[Deva]

sup, actually, this just happened to me at at tournament a couple days ago. I had to play the best player in the state, who mains MK. I have this little history of never losing to MK in a tournament set. So. . .I somehow almost jv 3 stock his MK first round xD. It was pretty cool, his MK's never been beaten that hard by anyone in tournament before. He actually refuses to go MK against me ever again lol. But to the point, next 2 matches he went falco, and I guess he figured out that if you do it right, the cg to dair is an auto kill on Link before 40% if they jump off afterwards, footstool you, or just grab the edge after the dair. I was actually able to come back from a 3 stock deficit both matches but wasn't quite able to pull off the win. But yeah, Izaw mentioned in some thread a while back that if you hit yourself with bombs at the beginning of each stock to get yourself to 40% you have a better chance at beating falco. A lot of us shot it down but Honestly, he had a point. I played a lot of friendlies with him afterwards and basicaly the same thing happened. I realized though, if you just run up to falco at the beginning of each of your stocks and throw the bomb down near him while standing, you have a good chance of damaging falco, and when you hit yourself it prevents him from grabbing you. After I started doing that I was consistantly 2 stocking his falco. It's way easier to make up 40% than come back from a 3 stock defecit. I was kinda dissapointed I didnt figure that out sooner, woulda really helped in my tournament set with him. But yeah, just wanted to say, Sorry Izaw. You were really on to something, and We should have take more care to test your theory.

 

[Legan]

doing 40% to myself is just doesnt sit well with me. Why not just zair with a bomb until the falco eventually does 40%+ to u with lasers or whatever. I havent lost to any falcos after I figured this out.

 

[Deva]

Well, that's just the thing, this guy's really freakin good, he knew that, and didn't laser much at all near the beginning. I mean, I did my best to space with zair and bombs, but he just kept going for the grab and powershielding, eventually landed it. If a Falco's smart and really only cares about beating Link at any cost, he only goes for the grab, and at that point, you're literally screwed. He's the first Falco I've played that figured out it's impossible for Link to recover if you do it right. Even SK92 didn't do it when we played. I mean, it was a tournament set, and he wanted to win so he did whatever would get him the win. He didn't care about lasering, or camping, or combos, or anything. He just concentrated on the grab. He didn't care how much damage he took to get that grab since as soon as he did, I was dead. Believe me, I didnt wanna start hitting myself with bombs either, but it's really not that bad. It only takes about 4 bombs, and just running up to him and throwing them down. Good chance of hitting him too, and even then the explosion keeps you from getting grabbed. Seriously, after that, even if you're missing 40%, if you're good enough it's really easy to space Falco and you can easily make up the % and get the kill. I watched your matches against Ryuzen, so I know you know how to play against Falco. And that's pretty much how the matchup should go if you know what your doing. But like I said, if the falco really wants to win, and knows how to do it properly, they will only go for the cg to dair and it's literally an auto kill on Link from a cg if they know how to edge hog or footstool afterwards. Of course it really depends on who you're playing. At this stage, not many Falcos know they get an auto kill on Link off a cg to dair. Even really good ones, aka Ryuzen/ SK92. I'm just saying keep this tactic in mind, because every once in a while, some do figure this out, and if theyre smart, they won't do anything else except try to land a grab, and believe me, they will eventually. They won't laser you, they won't camp you, they'll just approach, power shield, and grab, until they get it off, no matter what happens to them during the process. But yeah, not many know this, so it's not a huge problem, just like, if a Falco isn't spamming and is constantly rushing you and powershielding, you'll have a pretty good idea of what they're going for lol.

 

[Ray_Kalm]

You basically just repeated the same thing over and over again, Deva. We get the point, and as you mentioned yourself, many know about this already.

 

[NintenJoe]

wow, epic stuff Deva. I've never played a good Falco, but I'm familiar with the cg->dair set-up as I used it multiple times when I mained him. I never knew that combo was an auto-kill on Link and throwing bombs in the beginning of the match is a great idea (thanks Izaw). Other then that, I'd say CP a stage like Pirate Ship or Green Hill Zone. Falco can't cg gimp without a proper ledge and strange stage structure throws off his game.

I'm definately adding some of this stuff to the Falco match-up in my guide. Mind if I quote you? I'll put your contributions in the credits.

 

[Deva]

You basically just repeated the same thing over and over again, Deva. We get the point, and as you mentioned yourself, many know about this already.

Well, Legan's pretty set on not doing it so I was just trying my best to get it across the reasons that he should. . .aka I wasnt directing that last comment towards you >_>. But that's just the thing, it's known but not used competitively since most Falcos dont know it leads to an auto kill. Usually Link can recover from it, so no one good actually hit themselves with bombs at the begining of each stock xD. It's still not known very well, so this is more of a heads up for when Falco's do figure it out.


And NintenJoe, you can use it if you want, but not many falcos do this yet, so it's not a big deal. Its more of a future reference for when they do, this is the tactic that'll get you out of it.

 

[sasook]

Wait, CG -> dair -> ledgehog isn't commonly known? Really? That's news to me.

Spoiler

Could it be a possibilty that reverse bombsliding can help you retreat and attack from Falco? Honestly people, give the technique a freakin' chance.

 

[Blubba_Pinecone]

Sasook, I honestly don't get how you BombSlide so well. @_@ I phail at it. I can get Link to face backwards but not throw it backwards.

Anywhoo... has anyone else here been trying my thingy of DI Down+Away if you're getting CG'd near the ledge? He can't spike you if you do that. >_<

 

[sasook]

Sasook, I honestly don't get how you BombSlide so well. @_@ I phail at it. I can get Link to face backwards but not throw it backwards.

lol I dunno, it took me a while. A good 10 hours (not all in one go) before I had it down. I'll give all that I can though.

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=5700768&postcount=118

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8yXMgN9SZU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Nq9_CQNTYs

That's really all I got, just remember to turn off tap jump and practice.

Anywhoo... has anyone else here been trying my thingy of DI Down+Away if you're getting CG'd near the ledge? He can't spike you if you do that. >_<

I've heard about this, could never pull it off in a match. Always ended up fast falling to my death.

 

[FEaR.7]

For the reverse bombslide I do these and get it most of the time.

Dash wait a tiny bit then [C-stck down + Stick diagonally up/backwards + Z]. Yeah I input those at the exact same time and ta-da, get it almost everytime. I got tap jump off and Z to attack.


I think getting yourself up to 40% is actually not that bad and as Deva mentioned if you can damage Falco while doing it its even better. I approve of the method for competitive matches.

 

[sasook]

DANG IT NOOOOOOOO I WASTED MY 500th POST!!!


AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH! (I posted this here because it was in this topic).

 

[Onomanic]

Nooo I wasted mine to awhile ago XD Wow I haven't been posting a lot lately.

 

[LinkSpecialist]

Wow Deva, thanks for the heads up! My bro mains falco, so this should help alot! And more importantly, thank you Izaw! :D

 

[neji32]

i thougth you could smash stick out of cg sooner than youd be released, though it wouldnt help if your already close to the ledge

 

[Metro Knight]

Any chance you could just tether the edge before he dairs you or would that just be a bad idea?

 

[Deva]

tried it, xD, no way to escape it. If the falco isnt a d!ck, they wont just go for the cg and will laser you and stuff so you can usually get away with pulling bombs and zairing. This is just for the ones that know what your doing and only grab you as your bombs explode.

 

[Izaw]

Wow what a surprise

No worries Deva <3 pretty nice that you tried the bombing yourself to 40% thingie against falco. Still i have problems with DDD though ...<.<

But gl on your other tourneys then against falcos

Also there is really nothing to apologize for ;P

 

[Onomanic]

It was a good idea. I thought about using it when I played on Wifi still but it just doesn't sit right...

 

[Ritch]

ill be testing these agaisnt my friend's falco (bowz, really good) to see how it goes, you really dont know if you'll like the idea or find it useful till you test it yourself

 

[HeroMystic]

Damaging yourself never sits right.

Gotta try odd things.

 

[4Serial]

But it IS odd! Yeah, I've faced Falcos that only went for the CG > d-air. Like in Melee, NEVER take Falco to FD. The only way to avoid the CG is either damaging yourself or camping on platforms. You can spam projectiles, damage yourself with bombs, and make him laser you or approach you. Either way, he can't CG you very effectively. Nofair ***** the **** out of Falco.

 

[Onomanic]

Norfair ***** the **** out of everyone.

 

[NintenJoe]

Norfair ***** the **** out of everyone.

not ROB, I CPed Norfair against ROB in my tournament and things didn't go too well. ROB is a superior camper and will out-projectile Link on this stage. I've made it an extensive project to create an "Anti-ROB Link" out of myself. We'll see how things turn out.

 

[ShieryuSilvr]

Lol I CP vs Falcos sometimes, but yeah, hitting yourself is the ultimate way to avoid getting spikes by that gay a$$ combo lol <_<

 

[sasook]

I hit myself with bombs in order to avoid getting killed sometimes. No joke, if I'm at 150% and I see a KO about to come, that bomb is gonna get thrown straight down. Hasn't failed me so far.

Norfair, though it doesn't suit my style, definitely sounds like a good stage against Falco. He can CG you for like 3 grabs before he runs out of room.

What's a good ROB CP? Pirate ship? Green Hill Zone? Luigi's Mansion?

Green Hill Zone could possibly work....

 

[4Serial]

I'd take ROB to a small stage where his projectiles and glidetossing won't benefit him much. Battlefield seems good, but the small blastzones benefit his throw kills. Small stage + big blastzones is like...... Yoshi's Story? I don't know really.. Luigi's Mansion might not be good because ROB's d-smash is really gay. The stage also hurts Link as much as it hurts ROB so you don't have much of an advantage there.

If you're confident with your spacing and close combat game with jab cancels, Battlefield sounds really good because you can **** ROB really hard there. Just don't get hit.

 

[Legan]

Yoshi story is not a good stage to take ROB, those slants at the end of the stage make it extremely hard to edgeguard him, especially if he likes to edge camp. Thats why I had such a hard time with overswarm on yoshi story. He also has the ability to hit Link at awkward angles in the air with his aerials so thats another downside to the matchup. I guess the best place you could take ROB is castle siege, the 2nd part of the stage gives you a pretty even playing field and the low ceiling makes it easy to get kills with the dair.

 

[sasook]

But for the first part, ROB can gimp so easily....

And the statues mess up Link's projectiles.

 

[Legan]

It's not hard to break the statues, more than likely the rob will break it eventually with his laser. All you have to do is throw some smashes or aerials on them and space with the zair and youll be set.

 

[sasook]

Doesn't that decay your moves though? Hitting the statues, I mean. And what should a Link do against ROB in the first part of the stage?

 

[Metro Knight]

Yoshi story is not a good stage to take ROB, those slants at the end of the stage make it extremely hard to edgeguard him, especially if he likes to edge camp. Thats why I had such a hard time with overswarm on yoshi story. He also has the ability to hit Link at awkward angles in the air with his aerials so thats another downside to the matchup. I guess the best place you could take ROB is castle siege, the 2nd part of the stage gives you a pretty even playing field and the low ceiling makes it easy to get kills with the dair.

It is really bad. I hate playing Yoshi's island versus Wolf. I have never played a really good ROB there, but versus Wolf he can nail you with a laser while you are hanging on the edge. It is really annoying. I really hate Yoshi's island, probably my least favorite level of the starters.

As far as ROB goes, after watching Overswarm play on that stage like 5-6 times, I would not want to be versus a ROB on it. The constantly ledge game would just frustrate me to no end.

 

[NintenJoe]

lol this has become a CP discussion for top tier characters. It's probably my fault, but whatever.

As for an effective CP against ROB, I'm doing some research on how ROB does on certain stages and applying his disadvantages on stage design. Hopefully, whichever stage is worst for ROB will be a decent stage for Link.

Anyway, so far I've been interested in the gyro/robo beam/ledge camping game. Green Hill Zone would be great for a CP against ROB because of weird robo beam angles and the absolute dissapearance of ledges. Other stages, such as Pokemon Stadium 1 + 2, have great platform placing to avoid ROB's robo beam at most angles without being too small of stages. Alterations in stage design also help Link escape ROB's projectiles and counter with some of his own.

Definately Green Hill Zone FTW, but I like Pokemon Stadium 1 and 2 as well.

 

[Deleted member]

*has come back from ~3 days without internet*

i've been doing this since about the same time izaw told everybody about it lol

40% is nothing, i'll live ~70% past any falco anyway so w/e. its better to die at 180% than at fcking 35% just because of chaingrabs

btw you can Di the changrab at +35% all link mains should remember this

 

[Metro Knight]

does it just require rolling, or smash stick diing, what kind of DIing are we talking about? <---- has no exp. versus falco

 

[Deleted member]

when he dthrows you hold away lol

 

[Blubba_Pinecone]

when he dthrows you hold away lol

and once you're at the edge hold down+away to avoid the spike. i'm tellin' you guys. lol

 

[Bouse]

Punch the Falco player in the throat. See if he can chaingrab after that.

 

[-Mars-]

You made a whole thread about Falcos chaingrab, but what do you guys do against Sheik? She basically has a 70-90% combo on you and if the ftilt is decayed, she can lock you in again at higher percentages to combo into a tipper. It's also not like you can cp to avoid the lock.

I've lost to some Links before on WIFI(Arkives for one), but never in real life. I tried going Link in a small local tourney here and guess what? Some mofo had the nerve enough to cp me with Sheik. He was allright but I could tell Sheik wasn't his main or even a secondary. I got two stocked by him and it pissed me off. I considered just destroying him with my Sheik but I forced myself to stay Link throughout the whole tourny...........i've gotta give you Link mains props..........that s*** is hard.

 

[Deva]

it's called smash DI xD. You can jump out of Shiek's f-tilt lock after 1-3 hits. Even if it's decayed, you can still smash DI out of it. for this situation smash DI down and shield.

and again, this is only for Falcos that literally only go for the CG. If they are camping at all, let them camp and just zair with a bomb in hand and you'll be fine. Only use the Link bombside as a last resort against the geyest of Falcos.

 

[Deleted member]

Punch the Falco player in the throat. See if he can chaingrab after that.

RRRRRRROOOOOOOOFFFFFLLLLLLLMMMMMAAAAAAOOOOO

my new fav quote