Data Moveset Thread - [COMPLETE]

[kataridragon]

One oft favorite things is to spring gimp a Rob into oblivion. It takes like 3-4 springs but since he is so slow in the air with his up b it's easy to just keep gimping him until he is out of fuel.

 

[Camalange]

He also can't start any aerials while he's using his fuel.

Sonic can go pretty deep versus ROB offstage. It's funny.

 

[KirbyandSonicrock14]

No matter how much I read it seems we're still figuring out sonic. I still think Sonic has one of the best recovery in the game. One question, did Sonic get lighter?

 

[Myst_R]

I really like the Bair as an option because it really spikes. I don't perfectly understand the right timing to do it but I'm gonna practice and give you my results.

I'd also love to see S.O. doing a video of the Fsmash angled down

 

[Sonic Orochi]

We were this close to making sense. Oh well

Ok, I tried with the angled FSmash and it does work, but I've only managed to make it work with 1/4 speed. The problem is that its startup takes 50% longer than DSmash's (frame 18 vs 12 - the FSmash's hitboxes do last 50% more, though, but not a lot - 3 vs 2), which makes timing it right even worse. Add that to the almost frame perfect you need to be in order to hit the opponent during the vulnerability frames and you get what you get.

 

[kataridragon]

^^^
So I'm guessing down smash.

Death to all who grab the ledge!

 

[Heartstring]

Wow, very interesting development! I'll be looking at this and seeing what we get.

Characters with recoveries that hit people onstage (like marth) will benefit so much from this discovery :O

 

[Sonic Orochi]

Alright, here's the vid. Have fun!

 

[Espy Rose]

OH I GET IT.
So everyone is basically Brawl G&W now. Neat.

It's not as hard as the video makes it though. So long as a hurtbox is out during that single frame, they'll get hit. Excellent video though.

 

[Camalange]

Excited to give it a watch! Probably won't have as much time today as I'd like to, but definitely interested to see what you put together.

 

[kid craft 24/sonic master]

welp, guess i'll be getting a lot more niche KO's now due to knowing i can just throw out a meaty Dair or properly time'd Bair when they ledge snap. Though this will be scary if Megaman players learn to take advantage of this using their Dair......

 

[Heartstring]

Based Orochi, We have SO many options for punishing this mechanic and I love it. you know I'll be practising this :D

 

[XLR8TION]

This is pretty neat =o

 

[Sonic Orochi]

Awesome, hope we can benefit more than suffer penalties from this.

I mean, it's SO easy to use Ike's Eruption for this that it's not even funny.

 

[Camalange]

I mean, it's SO easy to use Ike's Eruption for this that it's not even funny.

Yup.

It's ridiculous.

As I stated in the other thread, great work. I liked the creativity in options, but there was one thing I was wondering. I know Sheik can stagespike people by Dairing into the ledge if your opponent is still holding it... Does that work for Sonic at all? I don't think it does, but was curious.

 

[DiSQO_BuNNY]

Theres been moments where ive smacked a couple of people out of ledgesnap with a melee style bair into the ledge onstage.

Edit: reread what you actually said. Yeah dair into the ledge will hit through the stage on a ledgesnap, idk about if someones holding it. Thatd be a great option for anyone who regrabs the ledge

 

[Camalange]

Edit: reread what you actually said. Yeah dair into the ledge will hit through the stage on a ledgesnap, idk about if someones holding it.

Cooool.

Seems like an even safer set-up (probably difficult to time though).

 

[DiSQO_BuNNY]

Cooool.

Seems like an even safer set-up (probably difficult to time though).

Honestly it happened to me by accident lol

 

[JamesUK7]

Alright, here's the vid. Have fun!

Really awesome video man, defo gonna try this!

 

[ImReallyFeelingIt]

Ledgesnapping sure is going to get more kills. Also that dair for LSing looks hecka scary. Anyone SD from it yet or is it really easy to recover from?

Though this will be scary if Megaman players learn to take advantage of this using their Dair......

Don't jinx it.

 

[DiSQO_BuNNY]

Sometimes ill randomly SD from it, but i feel like its because i dair too soon mid jump

 

[Camalange]

You have to remember that the autocancel distance is a lot worse in this game than Brawl, but you can definitely still jump then dair offstage safely. Shouldn't be SD'ing from it (I always save my double jump when I use dair offstage).

 

[Z1GMA]

I've been chasing after ppl alot recently with weak HA after Uthrow (if they are on weird %'s that prevents Spring Chase-aerials)
It's slower than Spring Chasing, but it lets you keep your DJ which is nice.
Pretty cool when edgeguarding high after Fthrow as well.

 

[kataridragon]

I just wanna let everyone know that a dash attack totally gimps a yoshis recovery. Eggs can't save him if he is pushed back an doesn't regain his jump.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Alright, here's the vid. Have fun!

That is an awesome and helpful video.

 

[Heartstring]

@ Sonic Orochi
Don't suppose we can get some frame data for our standing/running/pivot grab? as in when the grab-box is actually out? thanks in advance bro

 

[theGIANT]

Soo much useful info here! I'm just getting into Sonic myself and would really like to main him. Just one question: I was playing Sonic earlier and he did an animation on the ground where he was in ball-form and spun around in a circle before getting up. I thought it was his getup attack but that has a different animation. Any ideas what this was? It's not a tilt, grab, smash, aerial or special as far as I can tell. I mostly want to know because it looked so cool, haha.

 

[Tenki]

ultra late to this party but

Alright, here's the vid. Have fun!

I can feel the hype watching this lol.

Soo much useful info here! I'm just getting into Sonic myself and would really like to main him. Just one question: I was playing Sonic earlier and he did an animation on the ground where he was in ball-form and spun around in a circle before getting up. I thought it was his getup attack but that has a different animation. Any ideas what this was? It's not a tilt, grab, smash, aerial or special as far as I can tell. I mostly want to know because it looked so cool, haha.

Could have been a single charge/"cancelled" down-b?

 

[Camalange]

Could have been a single charge/"cancelled" down-b?

Pretty sure it's just one of his get-up attacks.

 

[Ganemdar]

Did you try dash attack @ Sonic Orochi ? I've had some interesting dash attacks with people heading to the edge. Occasionally I'll dash attack just as they are trying to get the edge and they'll get launched at an awesome horizontal/downward angle. It doesn't happen very often and when I try to replicate it during a match (haven't tried in training) I can never get it right.

If what I've been actually doing is hitting people during their 1 frame vulnerability with a dash attack then that would make me pretty happy since catching people with that is very satisfying. Its one of those moments where I'm like "wtf???" and I'm sure my opponent is too since they react late to try and recover.

 

[Sonic Orochi]

Okay, new stuff. Nothing major, though.

When SDR/SCR off a platform, if you time a C-stick to the opposite direction right before entering ASDR/ASC you'll be able to jump backwards instead of diagonally forward-ish (just hitting jump will make you jump straight up). Oh, and, yes, you'll have to be ****ing frame perfect as well. I think that all of these "ATs" people are finding in Sm4sh are totally due to a programming oversight. Every-****ing-thing has to be frame perfect. Screw that.

@ Sonic Orochi
Don't suppose we can get some frame data for our standing/running/pivot grab? as in when the grab-box is actually out? thanks in advance bro

I think I can try to get that but I don't really know how accurate that'd be because I'm not that familiar with frame data. I only used the DSmash frame data in the vid because we have a data dump that corroborates that info.

Did you try dash attack @ Sonic Orochi ? I've had some interesting dash attacks with people heading to the edge. Occasionally I'll dash attack just as they are trying to get the edge and they'll get launched at an awesome horizontal/downward angle. It doesn't happen very often and when I try to replicate it during a match (haven't tried in training) I can never get it right.

If what I've been actually doing is hitting people during their 1 frame vulnerability with a dash attack then that would make me pretty happy since catching people with that is very satisfying. Its one of those moments where I'm like "wtf???" and I'm sure my opponent is too since they react late to try and recover.

I've posted a spreadsheet with some data on ledge shenanigans but I guess it was overshadowed by the new video haha

Here it is: (link).

About the ledgesnap vulnerability + running attack, well, I've tried it against Charizard (one of the easiest to hit with a RA when he's grabbing the ledge) and it didn't seem to work.

 

[theGIANT]

@ Tenki Tested and no, it wasn't a cancelled down or forward B.

Pretty sure it's just one of his get-up attacks.

Is there more than one get-up attack? :O

 

[Camalange]

@ Tenki Is there more than one get-up attack? :O

I believe so. For some reason I can't seem to recall off the top of my head, but it might vary depending on your %. I'm almost positive he has a get-up attack animation of doing a Brawl Dsmash-esque animation.

 

[Sonic Orochi]

If I'm not mistaken, the two types of get-up attacks are: facing down and facing up.

 

[Seagull Joe]

Anything new tech-wise?

I beat Boss, Acid, Logic, and Bengalz last Saturday. Vids will be on Keitaro's channel or in the archive of rushhoursmash. I got 3rd. All . I've learned ALOT recently due to actually putting time into this game.

 

[Tenki]

I believe so. For some reason I can't seem to recall off the top of my head, but it might vary depending on your %. I'm almost positive he has a get-up attack animation of doing a Brawl Dsmash-esque animation.

< 100%, >= 100% I thought were the two.

Anything new tech-wise?

After playing Sm4sh casually and just now coming back, the main 'new' things I've seen are the ledge snap abuse and instant spindash jump, which I can't pull off near 90% yet :/

also sucks that when you do one, you need to SH or something to renew your jump next time you do a spindash special.

Okay, new stuff. Nothing major, though.

When SDR/SCR off a platform, if you time a C-stick to the opposite direction right before entering ASDR/ASC you'll be able to jump backwards instead of diagonally forward-ish (just hitting jump will make you jump straight up). Oh, and, yes, you'll have to be ****ing frame perfect as well. I think that all of these "ATs" people are finding in Sm4sh are totally due to a programming oversight. Every-****ing-thing has to be frame perfect. Screw that.

I don't think it's C-stick.
I've had some stupid unwanted double jumps backward (with tap jump off) using just control stick input (3DS version) after doing something off the edge. I can't tell you if it was just running and trying to do a bair off-edge or using spindash though.

 

[Camalange]

< 100%, >= 100% I thought were the two.

That sounds right to me. Like I said, I was pretty sure it varied by %, like ledge attacks.

After playing Sm4sh casually and just now coming back, the main 'new' things I've seen are the ledge snap abuse and instant spindash jump, which I can't pull off near 90% yet :/

Same. ISDJ is pretty useful though. Sometimes as a substitute I just sorta run and stop into a Down B and immediately pursue with SDJ but it's not the same ;_;

When SDR/SCR off a platform, if you time a C-stick to the opposite direction right before entering ASDR/ASC you'll be able to jump backwards instead of diagonally forward-ish (just hitting jump will make you jump straight up). Oh, and, yes, you'll have to be ****ing frame perfect as well. I think that all of these "ATs" people are finding in Sm4sh are totally due to a programming oversight. Every-****ing-thing has to be frame perfect. Screw that.

Hm, I overlooked this the first time.

This has never happened to me.

 

[Tenki]

Sometimes as a substitute I just sorta run and stop into a Down B and immediately pursue with SDJ but it's not the same ;_;

Speaking of down b (just throwing this out there), does it seem more useful to do an uncharged / slightly charged one to just roll across someone? It's kind of like a derpy dash attack that you can cancel into a jump, or lets you follow up with a tilt if you can roll across someone's shield. It feels like a terrible replacement to ASCSC but completely on the ground :|

 

[Camalange]

Speaking of down b (just throwing this out there), does it seem more useful to do an uncharged / slightly charged one to just roll across someone? It's kind of like a derpy dash attack that you can cancel into a jump, or lets you follow up with a tilt if you can roll across someone's shield. It feels like a terrible replacement to ASCSC but completely on the ground :|

Slow spin charge has its uses.

Shield pressure from spin charge is stronger this game. When it connects with shields you can hold forward to do multiple hits like in Brawl but I think we may get more from the grounded version now and it slows down, so even if you're going at like a not total snail speed, it might slow down on shield for a bunch of hits. Once it stops you can do possible cross ups like you mentioned into tilts, or even a really delayed VSCJ (when SCR is going that slow, doing a SCJ is practically a vertical one which is pretty neat to know).

 

[Sonic Orochi]

Been playing around with items (bananas, Metal Blades, turnips) and SCR->SCJ->throw item down->Bair at mid percents seems legit.