Moveset speculation

[Teeb147]

So on the website there's a picture of hero doing a kick animation similar to snake fair, I feel like it may be a copy paste of snake fair, but DQ heroes are known for hand to hand combat much.

Most people think it's up-air. i agree with that. Fair will most likely be a decent sword attack.

 

[Erotic&Heretic]

Personally I think it's a kick upward, instead of one downward like Snake's Fair. I guess Up-Air or maybe a throw.

Gotta admit that the visual effect behind is suspicious though, seems like it's going directly downward.

 

[Teeb147]

Personally I think it's a kick upward, instead of one downward like Snake's Fair. I guess Up-Air or maybe a throw.

Gotta admit that the visual effect behind is suspicious though, seems like it's going directly downward.

Yeah Incineroar is already getting hit by it when it's hitting up.
Doesn't look like it's going downwards at all to me.

 

[Erotic&Heretic]

It's only the visual effect that gives this impression to me. It's strong / bigger below and the lines suggests it's going vertically and therefore downward. But I may be wrong, and anyway, that foot is clearly going up.

 

[shinhed-echi]

I’m leaning on that being Up Throw. Although it would make for an interesting Uair.

Interesting point about Psyche Up and Oomph being one for damage and one for knockback.

I’m leaning on Oomph for damage, and Psyche Up for knockback as well.

I’m not expecting it, but I hope 4 psyche ups make them go Super Saiyan here too. It would be an amazing nod. (Luminary and Solo would look dope af if they do).

 

[Teeb147]

It's only the visual effect that gives this impression to me. It's strong / bigger below and the lines suggests it's going vertically and therefore downward. But I may be wrong, and anyway, that foot is clearly going up.

It's hitting incineroar while the foot is up, The effects at the bottom would mean that it was there before going up, is how i would take it. I dont think there'd be those effects there if it hasn't even come down .

 

[Apollo500]

So on the website there's a picture of hero doing a kick animation similar to snake fair, I feel like it may be a copy paste of snake fair, but DQ heroes are known for hand to hand combat much.

I doubt it's fair. Given that Luminary hits Marth and MK in the cinematic trailer with a forward-face aerial swipe, I think it's safe to say Hero's fair will be a pretty standard vertical arc slash. Which is good, because vertical arcing fairs are almost always really good.

 

[meleebrawler]

It's only the visual effect that gives this impression to me. It's strong / bigger below and the lines suggests it's going vertically and therefore downward. But I may be wrong, and anyway, that foot is clearly going up.

The move does look like the first part of Brawler's Soaring Axe Kick.

 

[Jade_Rock]

Doesn't it also look similar to bayo dair? Could be a throw up b air attack? Nintendo give me a detailed trailer!!

 

[Chiroz]

The effect on the background is the way the hitbox moved. So the hitbox moves straight up. Most of the moves you guys are trying to compare don't have that effect when the move is moving upwards, they only have it once the actual hitbox spawns. It's safe to assume that this attack at the very least starts with an upward kick that has a hitbox (and most probably that's it, I don't think there's a 2nd portion to this).

 

[Slime Master]

This might have been said before, or been immediately obvious to everyone, but I thought I'd share my thoughts on why Hero's moveset is imo the best gimmick we've gotten at least in concept. Having some kind of resource management isn't new to fighting games, we even have one in smash right now with Robin, but where most resource management gimmicks focus on spending resources for raw power or exceptional utility, Hero focuses on variety (at least seemingly). The result is that you can do almost anything you want, but don't necessarily have enough MP to do everything you want, you'll end up using some spells in exchange for not using different spells.
I suspect this will result in a huge variety of different playstyles, since people will favor spells they like but maybe not utilize others that lead to a fully legitimate strategy. For example: If you're used to playing heavies, you might favor oomph/psyche up for higher raw damage/kill power, and not really care too much that you can't throw as many projectiles out as a result. This is on top of the natural playstyle preferences that resource management tends to bring out: you'll definitely have people saving MP for the best situations they can find vs. people throwing a lot of spells trying to force a good situation out.
If our recovery uses variable amounts of MP for variable degrees of usefulness (as I'm hoping it will), we'll get even more distinctions on that front, since people who want to play gung-ho or glass-cannon-y will be spending more MP that they could be using recovering throwing out more spells or staying boosted more often. There's even plenty of variety within glass cannon playstyles, you could be spending that spare MP on projectiles to try and stay safe so you don't get thrown off stage in the first place, or using it on oomph, psyche up, and maybe snooze to try and get big damage like a typical glass cannon.
I'm just so stoked that not only am I finally getting a DQ rep, but he seems incredibly fun to play and well designed to boot.

 

[Teeb147]

This might have been said before, or been immediately obvious to everyone, but I thought I'd share my thoughts on why Hero's moveset is imo the best gimmick we've gotten at least in concept. Having some kind of resource management isn't new to fighting games, we even have one in smash right now with Robin, but where most resource management gimmicks focus on spending resources for raw power or exceptional utility, Hero focuses on variety (at least seemingly). The result is that you can do almost anything you want, but don't necessarily have enough MP to do everything you want, you'll end up using some spells in exchange for not using different spells.
I suspect this will result in a huge variety of different playstyles, since people will favor spells they like but maybe not utilize others that lead to a fully legitimate strategy. For example: If you're used to playing heavies, you might favor oomph/psyche up for higher raw damage/kill power, and not really care too much that you can't throw as many projectiles out as a result. This is on top of the natural playstyle preferences that resource management tends to bring out: you'll definitely have people saving MP for the best situations they can find vs. people throwing a lot of spells trying to force a good situation out.
If our recovery uses variable amounts of MP for variable degrees of usefulness (as I'm hoping it will), we'll get even more distinctions on that front, since people who want to play gung-ho or glass-cannon-y will be spending more MP that they could be using recovering throwing out more spells or staying boosted more often. There's even plenty of variety within glass cannon playstyles, you could be spending that spare MP on projectiles to try and stay safe so you don't get thrown off stage in the first place, or using it on oomph, psyche up, and maybe snooze to try and get big damage like a typical glass cannon.
I'm just so stoked that not only am I finally getting a DQ rep, but he seems incredibly fun to play and well designed to boot.

Yup it's going to be pretty awesome moveset-wise. We only dreamed of getting such a great spell variety. And I love variety. Though we might find that some spells arent quite as good in competitive than others.
I think zoom will probably cost very little, just like in the games. It'll probably be a good go to recovery.(hopefully)

Other than that, it should definitely cater to a lot of playstyles, so long as someone enjoys a bit of strategy, since spells can't be spammed.
Your post made me think of something else but I forgot. I'll bring it up if i remember xD

 

[Slime Master]

Yup it's going to be pretty awesome moveset-wise. We only dreamed of getting such a great spell variety. And I love variety. Though we might find that some spells arent quite as good in competitive than others.
I think zoom will probably cost very little, just like in the games. It'll probably be a good go to recovery.(hopefully)

Other than that, it should definitely cater to a lot of playstyles, so long as someone enjoys a bit of strategy, since spells can't be spammed.
Your post made me think of something else but I forgot. I'll bring it up if i remember xD

We'll see about zoom; from what I remember from the trailer, it looked like it had a bit of startup, and it probably doesn't have hitboxes, which isn't a nice combination even if it gives great distance. It might be like Megaman/Sonic's upB though, in that you can jump, airdodge, and attack afterwards to mix things up, in which case it'll be fine. My real dream is that we get some kind of spell that costs moderate to large amounts of MP, but can be used in tandem with other recovery spells or itself, so you have theoretically limitless recovery as long as you're willing to spend more MP.
Of course, there's not really any reason to believe we do have anything like that, but it'd be cool. Also not sure what spell would fit that bill.

 

[Teeb147]

We'll see about zoom; from what I remember from the trailer, it looked like it had a bit of startup, and it probably doesn't have hitboxes, which isn't a nice combination even if it gives great distance. It might be like Megaman/Sonic's upB though, in that you can jump, airdodge, and attack afterwards to mix things up, in which case it'll be fine. My real dream is that we get some kind of spell that costs moderate to large amounts of MP, but can be used in tandem with other recovery spells or itself, so you have theoretically limitless recovery as long as you're willing to spend more MP.
Of course, there's not really any reason to believe we do have anything like that, but it'd be cool. Also not sure what spell would fit that bill.

I'm not worried about that, but of course hoping it's good. Anyway it's going to be better than cloud or chrom for sure ;p

 

[meleebrawler]

I've got a theory about Kacrackle Slash, and that is it's actually a buffing spell that can apply to any one sword normal. I say this because the clip we see it in is a move that looks very similar to the second hit of ftilt.

 

[Minik]

I've got a theory about Kacrackle Slash, and that is it's actually a buffing spell that can apply to any one sword normal. I say this because the clip we see it in is a move that looks very similar to the second hit of ftilt.

I made this comparison on a post a while back, might also apply to the thunder attack because it coats the sword and there is a move in DQ for it.

 

[Teeb147]

I've got a theory about Kacrackle Slash, and that is it's actually a buffing spell that can apply to any one sword normal. I say this because the clip we see it in is a move that looks very similar to the second hit of ftilt.

As much as I'd like to see Fource skills on the character, I think it's a pretty big jump. The animation can look the same.
Also, I dont see why it would only be there for one move. (and it would mean more offensive buffing spells that we havent seen, and i dont think there'd only be one element)

I made this comparison on a post a while back, might also apply to the thunder attack because it coats the sword and there is a move in DQ for it.

They use the sword in zap moves, so it can easily be just that smaller (uncharged) one can look like a sword slash but really it's that it shoots out the projectile.

There's definitely a place for those theories though. I just think it's one of the less likely ones. It would introduce another complex mechanic and i dont think they would go that route for heroes that dont use those types of skills. But i wouldn't mind being proven wrong on that one since it could be fun.

 

[Jade_Rock]

Smash has always been a game founded on simple concepts compared to other fighting games.

Transform into another character? Ok. Self buffing? Ok. Self buffing, mp management, buffing a weapon and a potentially clunky menu mechanic? Sounds like a little much to me for this game.

Could it be fun? Yes, but at some point it may be ridiculous to think about all the factors in the middle of a fight.

 

[Erotic&Heretic]

I don't see "buffing a weapon" personally, considering buffs aleady exists, I think Kacrackle Slash will be a single move.

The clunkiness of the menus will depend on a lot of things. Will we be able to quickly cast a spell, the last one used for example, by tapping B? Considering there's moves that are up-close (Kacrackle Slash, uncharged Zap, I guess Kaclang goes there too) we do need a way to quickly use those spells. This applies to recoveries as well.

 

[Minik]

I don't think its such a hard thing to believe, its not as much as an entire moveset and more like just adding an element, maybe a unique projectile on some attacks. Nair could be the exact same but with an ice/thunder effect on it. They do this already with Robin Levin sword, it'd just be a one time attack instead of many uses like levin.

 

[Teeb147]

I don't think its such a hard thing to believe, its not as much as an entire moveset and more like just adding an element, maybe a unique projectile on some attacks. Nair could be the exact same but with an ice/thunder effect on it. They do this already with Robin Levin sword, it'd just be a one time attack instead of many uses like levin.

Yeah well it's possible but it's still a jump and there's easier explanations. They wouldn't call it kacrackle slash in that case, because they're legit different skills. One is the slash they named, and the other is a fource skill which is exclusive to the Armamentalist class.

I don't see "buffing a weapon" personally, considering buffs aleady exists, I think Kacrackle Slash will be a single move.

The clunkiness of the menus will depend on a lot of things. Will we be able to quickly cast a spell, the last one used for example, by tapping B? Considering there's moves that are up-close (Kacrackle Slash, uncharged Zap, I guess Kaclang goes there too) we do need a way to quickly use those spells. This applies to recoveries as well.

I think it'll be like shulk where you can press quickly to get the same one, but the other moves you have to remember where they are to press down or up before releasing b (or pressing it again).
I dont know how it's going to be for the third menu option, since you'd have to press a direction twice, but maybe there's a simple input to go there.

 

[meleebrawler]

One small detail about Kamikazee that seems to have gone unnoticed is that it seems to be unblockable. Duck Hunt was holding shield the entire startup but it did nothing.

 

[Chiroz]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=upbA0toRFzU

Will be posting 2 more videos tomorrow, one explaining specials and speculations and another explaining some tips and tricks that will probably be relevant to The Hero if my theories on the character end up being correct.

 

[Teeb147]

I posted this in the hero thread, but inspired by some ideas in this thread I took a closer look, and if you check the hero trailer at 2:42 in slow mo, you can see that the move erdrick uses launches a lightning projectile with the attack. Probably uncharged zap. looks quick
https://youtu.be/pupll3ON-WA?t=162

(you can see it on the left of the picture)

 

[Minik]

Isn't it a bit weird that Zap specifically uses the sword instead of just casting it? I think if it were just a simple Zap it would be using their bare hands but the fact we've only seen it using their sword would make it Lightning Slash?

 

[Teeb147]

Isn't it a bit weird that Zap specifically uses the sword instead of just casting it? I think if it were just a simple Zap it would be using their bare hands but the fact we've only seen it using their sword would make it Lightning Slash?

No the charged version uses the sword too. It seems to be a design decision they made, which i kinda like, actually.
It's probably like how they can harness electricity through it for gigaslash. (which has recurred in dragon quest)

note: Also, funnily enough, Lightning Slash in dragon quest is actually explosion-based, not lightning like zap.

 

[Chiroz]

I posted this in the hero thread, but inspired by some ideas in this thread I took a closer look, and if you check the hero trailer at 2:42 in slow mo, you can see that the move erdrick uses launches a lightning projectile with the attack. Probably uncharged zap. looks quick
https://youtu.be/pupll3ON-WA?t=162

(you can see it on the left of the picture)

Zap: Zap level 1 is spawned 9-11 frames after being released. Zap level 2 is spawned 11-13 frames after being released. Zap also has about 7-11 frames before it starts charging. So this totals less than 22 frames for a level 1 Zap to spawn (hits frame 9 in trailer, so 17-19 frames). 23-27 frames of charge already yield a level 2 Zap. This totals less than 51 frames for a level 2 Zap.



My notes on Zap. I explain in the video I will upload tomorrow on specials. Take note that I say "less" because you might be able to charge Level 2 Zap less than what they do on the video.

In the video Zap level 1 hits Snake in 17-19 frames, it might even spawn a bit earlier if the opponent is even closer to Erdrick.

Isn't it a bit weird that Zap specifically uses the sword instead of just casting it? I think if it were just a simple Zap it would be using their bare hands but the fact we've only seen it using their sword would make it Lightning Slash?

The sword has no hitbox in that video. Erdrick goes into no hitlag. If anything that video proves that he can do sword slashes during animations and it doesn't mean it's a buffed normal attack.

 

[Teeb147]

Zap: Zap level 1 is spawned less than 9-11 frames after being released. Zap level 2 is spawned less than 13 frames after being released. Zap also has about 9-11 frames before it starts charging. So this totals less than 22 frames for a level 1 Zap to spawn (hits frame 9 in trailer, so 17-19 frames). 23-27 frames of charge already yield a level 2 Zap. This totals less than 51 frames for a level 2 Zap.



My notes on Zap. I explain in the video I will upload tomorrow on specials. Take note that I say "less" because you might be able to charge Level 2 Zap less than what they do on the video.

In the video Zap level 1 hits Snake in 17-19 frames, it might even spawn a bit earlier if the opponent is even closer to Erdrick.






The sword has no hitbox in that video. Erdrick goes into no hitlag. If anything that video proves that he can do sword slashes during animations and it doesn't mean it's a buffed normal attack.

Ok so you were taking note of it. Well lvl1 seems quicker than that to me, but i'll look forward to your video to see what you mean.

 

[Minik]

Maybe it's inspired by how you can use Dragovian King Sword in battle and it casts Zap. Since their movesets take from each other. Also what about the screenshot of some kind of upwards Zap?

 

[Chiroz]

Maybe it's inspired by how you can use Dragovian King Sword in battle and it casts Zap. Since their movesets take from each other. Also what about the screenshot of some kind of upwards Zap?

My theory is that either Zap level 2 can be angled, or Zap level 3 starts with a Pikachu Thunder.

Ok so you were taking note of it. Well lvl1 seems quicker than that to me, but i'll look forward to your video to see what you mean.

Yea I have notes on basically all specials that were shown with frame data and I explain exactly how I obtained the frame data. I make some assumptions, but they are safe assumptions (sort of like: Every move has the same amount of frames for opening the Menu).

 

[Teeb147]

Maybe it's inspired by how you can use Dragovian King Sword in battle and it casts Zap. Since their movesets take from each other. Also what about the screenshot of some kind of upwards Zap?

That could maybe be part of the inspiration too. In whatever case i like it :D

As for the upwards zap, I really dont know. I think it's possible it can be angled like some said, but i also think it could something like kazap on up-b (as another option). It's really hard to tell yet.

My theory is that either Zap level 2 can be angled, or Zap level 3 starts with a Pikachu Thunder.






Yea I have notes on basically all specials that were shown with frame data and I explain exactly how I obtained the frame data. I make some assumptions, but they are safe assumptions (sort of like: Every move has the same amount of frames for opening the Menu).

Cool. I skimmed your normals (video) and it's pretty decent. And im glad you said d-tilt isn't a slide, it didn't look like a slide to me either. and i do like it. that makes two melee moves that aren't sword attacks, 3 if we count the shield hit.

 

[BigBoyTheFirst]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=upbA0toRFzU

Will be posting 2 more videos tomorrow, one explaining specials and speculations and another explaining some tips and tricks that will probably be relevant to The Hero if my theories on the character end up being correct.

Oh hey this video is actually super good.
For clarification of the forward smash and some sort of power-up, I firmly believe one of two things:

A) The more likely one, the zoom-in is because the hero is under the influence of "Psyche Up". I mostly believe this because if you listen carefully to the sound of the forward smash hitting, it makes the critical hit sound effect which is also heard on hard hitting Psyche Up hits in the original games:
Critical Hit sound (old retro one): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6zl-Y6R8Vg
Smash trailer (listen carefully around 1:33 to the sword hitting, playback speed 0.75 helps): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pupll3ON-WA
Psyche Up hit in Dragon Quest 8 (around 0:40. While these sound effects all vary slightly, they are all clearly critical hit sound effects imo): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VOldiyyYEkM

B) My second theory is that Hero has some sort of Critical Hit effect on his sword, perhaps being the tipper. I don't personally believe this since psych up exists and also uses the same sound effect when hitting a powerful move, but it might be worth considering as a backup theory.

 

[Jade_Rock]

Could it also be oomph or is it probably psych up is like revenge and oomph is like deep breathing. Doesn't revenge get the same blueish background? What else does that?

 

[Chiroz]

Oh hey this video is actually super good.
For clarification of the forward smash and some sort of power-up, I firmly believe one of two things:

A) The more likely one, the zoom-in is because the hero is under the influence of "Psyche Up". I mostly believe this because if you listen carefully to the sound of the forward smash hitting, it makes the critical hit sound effect which is also heard on hard hitting Psyche Up hits in the original games:
Critical Hit sound (old retro one): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6zl-Y6R8Vg
Smash trailer (listen carefully around 1:33 to the sword hitting, playback speed 0.75 helps): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pupll3ON-WA
Psyche Up hit in Dragon Quest 8 (around 0:40. While these sound effects all vary slightly, they are all clearly critical hit sound effects imo): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VOldiyyYEkM

B) My second theory is that Hero has some sort of Critical Hit effect on his sword, perhaps being the tipper. I don't personally believe this since psych up exists and also uses the same sound effect when hitting a powerful move, but it might be worth considering as a backup theory.

Yea, I also believe it’s Psyche Up, I say so in the Specials video, but I hadn’t noticed the sound! That’s pretty cool, I won’t be able to edit it in, but I might just add it in the video description or something.

 

[Teeb147]

Yup it's most likely psyche up. The only weird thing is that I would've expected a visual cue on the hero to note that he's got a tension level. Unless they didn't add that in yet. I'd be surprised if it didn't show at all.

Could it also be oomph or is it probably psych up is like revenge and oomph is like deep breathing. Doesn't revenge get the same blueish background? What else does that?

That's basically how it would be. We dont know about oomph in smash yet, but it's safe to assume that it's a timed buff.

 

[shinhed-echi]

Alright, got a new theory, let’s see how well this one ages.

I have a feeling that each of the 4 magic menus will have its first spell be the chargeable one, so that if you just hold the button you charge it (the first spell on the menu) but if you hold it, the menu pops up.

I rearranged the spells after watching the Beefy Smash Doods analysis, and also came up with this.

So it should look something like this:


Neutral B
>Sizzle / Kasizzle/...
Oomph
Psyche
Snooze

Side B
>Frizz / Kafrizz /...
Kacrackle Slash
?
?

Down B:
>Zap / Zapple / Kazap / ...
Bounce
Kamikaze
Kacklang

Up B:
>Whoosh / Kawhoosh
Zoom
Heal(?)
?

So as you see, one chargeable magic per menu, to make it easier to access them without having to cycle through them.

So, Tap for menu. Hold to charge magic.

 

[Teeb147]

Alright, got a new theory, let’s see how well this one ages.

I have a feeling that each of the 4 magic menus will have its first spell be the chargeable one, so that if you just hold the button you charge it (the first spell on the menu) but if you hold it, the menu pops up.

I rearranged the spells after watching the Beefy Smash Doods analysis, and also came up with this.

So it should look something like this:

Neutral B: (or Side B)
>Frizz / Kafrizz /...
Kacrackle Slash
?
?

Side B: (or Neutral B)
>Sizzle / Kasizzle/...
Oomph
Psyche
Snooze

Down B:
>Zap / Zapple / Kazap / ...
Bounce
Kamikaze
Heal(?)

Up B:
>Whoosh / Kawhoosh
Zoom
?
?

So as you see, one chargeable magic per menu, to make it easier to access them without having to cycle through them.

So, Tap for menu. Hold to charge magic.

The one they showed should be neutral b. No way they'd put oomph and psyche up on side b.
And zap would be side b, not down b.

I dont think that charging magic works by holding the button, at least not until you have the menu open. But I do think a quick tap uses the first spell.

-

Unrelated, but I wonder if the campfire scene in the trailer is actually Sizzle.

 

[Chiroz]

Alright, got a new theory, let’s see how well this one ages.

I have a feeling that each of the 4 magic menus will have its first spell be the chargeable one, so that if you just hold the button you charge it (the first spell on the menu) but if you hold it, the menu pops up.

I rearranged the spells after watching the Beefy Smash Doods analysis, and also came up with this.

So it should look something like this:


Neutral B
>Sizzle / Kasizzle/...
Oomph
Psyche
Snooze

Side B
>Frizz / Kafrizz /...
Kacrackle Slash
?
?

Down B:
>Zap / Zapple / Kazap / ...
Bounce
Kamikaze
Heal(?)

Up B:
>Whoosh / Kawhoosh
Zoom
?
?

So as you see, one chargeable magic per menu, to make it easier to access them without having to cycle through them.

So, Tap for menu. Hold to charge magic.

You're missing Kaclang.

Anyways, chargeable attacks are probably going to be like Samus, Mewtwo and all that. You just automatically charge and you release by double tapping.

 

[shinhed-echi]

The one they showed should be neutral b. No way they'd put oomph and psyche up on side b.
And zap would be side b, not down b.

I dont think that charging magic works by holding the button, at least not until you have the menu open, personally. But I do think a quick tap uses the first spell.

-

Unrelated, but I wonder if the campfire scene in the trailer is actually Sizzle.

I guess You’re right on the Neutral Special, changed it.

Yeah, that could be Sizzle. Kind of hoping not, as I prefer Sizzle to be a moving pillar of flame.
(Maybe there’s Kasizzle?)

It would be way to random for it not to be Sizzle.

 

[Teeb147]

You're missing Kaclang.

Anyways, chargeable attacks are probably going to be like Samus, Mewtwo and all that. You just automatically charge and you release by double tapping.

Personally I kind of doubt that. It mostly seems to be 2 forms, at least from what we know, and there isn't really charging, just takes a bit more time to come out. I think a quick tap will do the first level. Of course, i dont know for sure, but it's what makes most sense to me.

I guess You’re right on the Neutral Special, changed it.

Yeah, that could be Sizzle. Kind of hoping not, as I prefer Sizzle to be a moving pillar of flame.
(Maybe there’s Kasizzle?)

It would be way to random for it not to be Sizzle.

I'm just glad that sizzle is in the game, but yeah maybe there's two forms as well. Even if it's just the pillar we saw, I'm glad that it makes a hazard on the ground, it could be really useful, especially with all the other options. (assuming that's what it is)

I just watched the beefy video, and i'm surprised they put something that has 2 buffs in it as a side special. They added a note in the comments that it could be neutral special instead, but it's too bad they didnt say that in the video, oh well. There's quite a bit of stuff that we'll know once sakurai reveals how it all works anyway.