Moveset speculation

Sean²

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#1
For starters, I'm not that familiar with DQ. So forgive my ignorance with some things.

I was kinda enamored with Banjo for a while, but went back and watched the Hero's trailer over and over shortly after. I'm super intrigued by how they're handling him.

What on earth is going on with his specials? He seems to have a somewhat unique MP system and has a menu to choose between multiple specials - like switching customs midmatch - unless this was just a graphic to show off his moves for the trailer. He also seems to have a self-destruct (Kamikazee) attack that is a OHKO at the sacrifice of 1 stock? I would have thought this was his Final Smash but they showed the actual FS shortly after.

Seems pretty insane to me. I wish I could have seen more of what was in the menus, like I only saw 4 attacks in the first menu, but then they showed off way more in the following scenes.

I was kind of disappointed in his normals, unless they aren't done yet, a lot of them remind me of a mixture of Link's and Marth's. Not much is being done with the shield it seems, considering he definitely has a Link-esque Dash Attack, from what it looks like. I was hoping for some shield bash shenanigans. But I guess we really haven't seen everything. Hoping we see more in the future, considering he's coming out within the next couple months to remain as "Summer 2019".

I'm excited for the character alone, though I don't necessarily pay DQ. Though he may turn out kind of complicated in the long run. I'm super interested.
 

KokiriKory

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#2
Cant wait to learn more on how that special move menu works. I'm imagining some kind of cross between shulk's special and palutena's customization in smash 4...?
 
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#3
Ok so I've been looking at the trailer quite a few times and this is what I've come up with. I was writing it as I kept re-watching so some ideas were changed mid-writing.

This first part is referring to the menu we see, so I kind of worked in reverse order:
So Sizzle is not the same fire spell as shown earlier in the trailer since its more of a wall than a fireball
Psyche up is likely a single hit damage and/or knockback boost that can be lost easily. In the OG game it works as a one-time power up that boosts damage. The reason I think it might just be for knockback though is because of...
Oomph is a damage boost straight up, probably on a timer. This is how it worked in DQ; it was double damage for a certain amount of rounds and could only be lost under certain status ailments.
Snooze is a sleep spell that hopefully has sleep last longer the higher percent they are (meaning it ain't broke until kill percent???)(edited)

Sizzle costs 20/100 MP, Psyche Up costs 17/100 MP, Oomph costs 18/100 MP and Snooze costs 16/100 MP
subject to change of course

Bounce is an interesting one In DQ, it works like a spell reflector. Since it lasts a few turns you can still act with it on. In here, it seems you cast Bounce and can move around freely with a reflector on you, though I'm 100% the bubble itself will not have a hitbox(edited)

Kacrackle Slash is normally just a more powerful attack with ice effect, and here it freezes. I'm guessing its a long wind-up move or that it only freezes for a long time at higher percent (like PK-FREEZE) Hard to tell where this is in his moveset. Possibly Side smash?

Kaclang works similar to how it does in-game. You freeze yourself in spot and can't take damage, but you also can't do anything. My guess is this will cost A LOT of MP (and btw I imagine all of the moves mentioned here will also cost MP) though I wonder how it works in the air. How much recovery is there coming out of it as well? Is it decent or like doing Kirby Down B?

Zoom is a recovery that works like Pit's. Zoom only goes directly vertical in-game so it probably can't be altered horizontally here either.

Kamikazee... HOO BOY.
So in DQ, this move has you kill yourself in order to potentially insta-kill an enemy. I don't know how powerful this move will be but I imagine it will be the ultimate cheese BM stock taker. I also wonder if using this move on your last stock will kill you or the enemy first, though considering Ganon + Bowser side B nerf, it will kill you first.

The fireball at the beginning of the trailer was Frizz It looks like you can charge this move like Robin's Thunder It will probably have 4 levels: Frizz, Frizzle, Kafrizz and Kafrizzle I would think this to be his neutral B but he also has the menu...

I assumed Zoom was his up B but at the beginning of the trailer the hero uses a different move This looks like a spell called Swoosh aka a wind spell, though he uses it to propel him upwards. Considering this, I have some theories that are quite interesting

I'll get to the theory in a bit, but we also see another move called Zap where hero just shoots a lightning bolt. Thought that was worth mentioning

While I'm at it, no clue what the Chrom/Roy charged B like move was, especially since he taunted right before doing it

So I have a few theories as to why these moves are like this:

1) All of these moves are assigned to tilts/smash attacks and other things. I would normally believe this, but there's a few things that make this hard to believe because
-> Zoom AND Swoosh exists and both look like recoveries
-> Kaclang AND Bounce both exist, looking like moves that would be Down Bs

2) All the heroes are echo fighters
-> Already disproven since they all share the same slot and have only one alt each

3) The menu contains way more moves than shown and can be cycled through. I would think this but that would be worse game design then BBTAGs menu. That would be extremely tedious, therefore I believe there's only one option...

4) Every single special has a menu to choose from, meaning EVERY SINGLE SPECIAL IS ACTUALLY MULTIPLE SPECIAL MOVES which also means that each special move shown has an MP cost(edited)

Thank you and this has been my TED talk
 
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#4
I made some gifs.

Normal Attacks
Up tilt


Jab


Forward Tilt


Dash Attack


Up Smash (Erdrick on the right)


Forward Smash
Aerials
Back-Air


Neutral Air (Luminary on the left)


Up-Air (Image only)
Up air.jpg
Specials
Frizz (neutral or side special)?

Charged version (probably):


Zap?


Snooze


Swoosh (Up Special)?


Zoom (Up Special) ?


Bounce


Kaclang


Kamikaze


Kacrackle Slash
 
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Guybrush20X6

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#5
So if I'm seeing things right, Hero can change his special moves for each direction on the fly.

I know it's supposed to harken to Classic Dragon Quest rpgs but if I'm reading it right, they've perfectly captured the experience of playing a modern JRPG mashing together menus and real time combat. Albeit (and thankfully) nowhere near as frustrating to use from the looks of it.

I wonder how MP regenerates.
 

Chiroz

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#6
So as far as I can tell, The Hero has 4 specials moves on each of his specials, totaling 16 special moves.

I can tell you for a fact they aren't smashes since they don't have "smash charge" effect, which is only present in 2 moves in the trailer.

Here is my current analysis, since the trailer was at 30 FPS I can only guess 1-2 frames off what the start up of each move is like and I have no way of knowing how active a move is.

U-Tilt: Frame 9-11 (Probably 9) (FAF is in the high 40s, low 50s) (animation is exactly like TLink U-Smash)

Jab 1: Frame 5-9 (Probably 5) (Animation is exactly like Roy's jab but knockback is actually into The Hero and this is because unlike Roy, The Hero actually has a Jab 2 and 3)

B-Air: Frame 17-19 (Has more than 20 frames of landing lag from a SH) (Looks kind of like TLink B-Air, not exactly the same so might be based on another aerial I am not thinking about)

Dash Attack: Hits in front on frame 22-24, seems to hit on top about frame 19-21 (Looks exactly like Link's Dash Attack and also seems to have identical frame data)

F-Smash: Hits frame 18-20 in front, seems to hit frame 16-18 on top (Animation is exactly like Roy's Neutral B which shouldn't be confused with Marth F-Smash. Look at the small jump he does and how he holds his sword with 2 hands. This is important because Roy's Neutral B has more range than Marth's F-Smash)

F-Tilt: Hits around frame 7-9 (Hits with the shield which sort of implies that the move is invincible like Palutena's Dash Attack and B-Air. Also has 2 hits on command which will allow The Hero to mix up on shield and make the move harder to punish).

D-Tilt: Cloud's D-Tilt, unfortunately the move is shown after it has already landed so I cannot know the frame data or whether or not The Hero moves forward with this D-Tilt. D-Tilt angle seems perfect for a combo starter, but unfortunately that will depend on the frame data of the move.

U-Smash: Frame 13-15 (Marth's U-Smash)

Snooze: Projectile seems to leave The Hero's hand at frame 11-13? Might be chargeable

N-Air: Hitbox starts around frame 9-11 on top of The Hero and hits around frame 13-15 in front of The Hero (Looks very similar to Ike's N-Air but not identical) (This also seems to have about 20 frames of landing lag from a SH, which leads me to believe his numbers haven't been tweaked yet or he is supposed to be FH and getting auto cancels because that landing lag is atrocious).




Specials:

Up-Specials:

Swoosh
Zoom
???
???


Down-Specials:
Kaclang
Bounce
Kamikazee
???


Side-Specials:

Sizzle
Psyche Up
Oomph
Snooze


Neutral-Specials:

Frizz
Zap
Kacrackle Slash
???







I made some gifs.

Normal Attacks


Aerials


Specials

Smashes have a smash charge effect before them so you can tell which ones are those. It's the one that looks like Marth's U-Smash and the one that looks like Marth's F-Smash (but it's actually Roy's Neutral B). Also the 2 hit that starts with the shield is the F-Tilt. The one that is 3 hits that starts with Roy's jab1 is his jab.
 
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D

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#7
So as far as I can tell, The Hero has 4 specials moves on each of his specials, totaling 16 special moves.

I can tell you for a fact they aren't smashes since they don't have "smash charge" effect, which is only present in 2 moves in the trailer.

Here is my current analysis, since the trailer was at 30 FPS I can only guess 1-2 frames off what the start up of each move is like and I have no way of knowing how active a move is.

U-Tilt: Frame 8-10 (Probably 9) (FAF is in the high 40s, low 50s) (animation is exactly like TLink U-Smash)

Jab 1: Frame 4-6 (Probably 5) (Animation is exactly like Roy's jab but knockback is actually into The Hero and this is because unlike Roy, The Hero actually has a Jab 2 and 3)

B-Air: Frame 19-21(Has more than 20 frames of landing lag from a SH) (Looks kind of like TLink B-Air, not exactly the same so might be based on another aerial I am not thinking about)

Dash Attack: Hits in front on frame 23, seems to hit on top about frame 20 (Looks exactly like Link's Dash Attack and also seems to have identical frame data)

F-Smash: Hits frame 19 in front, seems to hit frame 17 on top (Animation is exactly like Roy's Neutral B which shouldn't be confused with Marth F-Smash. Look at the small jump he does and how he holds his sword with 2 hands. This is important because Roy's Neutral B has more range than Marth's F-Smash)

F-Tilt: Hits around frame 7-8 (Hits with the shield which sort of implies that the move is invincible like Palutena's Dash Attack and B-Air. Also has 2 hits on command which will allow The Hero to mix up on shield and make the move harder to punish).

D-Tilt: Cloud's D-Tilt, unfortunately the move is shown after it has already landed so I cannot know the frame data or whether or not The Hero moves forward with this D-Tilt. D-Tilt angle seems perfect for a combo starter, but unfortunately that will depend on the frame data of the move.

U-Smash: Frame 12-14 (Marth's U-Smash)

Snooze: Projectile seems to leave The Hero's hand at frame 12? Might be chargeable

N-Air: Hitbox starts around frame 8-9 on top of The Hero and hits around frame 10-12 in front of The Hero (Looks very similar to Ike's N-Air but not identical)




Specials:

Up-Specials:

Tornado
Zoom
???
???


Down-Specials:
Kaclang
Bounce
Kamikazee
???


Side-Specials:

Sizzle
Psyche Up
Oomph
Snooze


Neutral-Specials:

Fireball?
Lightning Ray?
Kacrackle Slash
???










Smashes have a smash charge effect before them so you can tell which ones are those. It's the one that looks like Marth's U-Smash and the one that looks like Marth's F-Smash (but it's actually Roy's Neutral B). Also the 2 hit that starts with the shield is the F-Tilt. The one that is 3 hits that starts with Roy's jab1 is his jab.
Each special having its own command menu is actually REALLY smart, now that I think about it. I do hope that ends up being the case.
 

Chiroz

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#8
Each special having its own command menu is actually REALLY smart, now that I think about it. I do hope that ends up being the case.
Also, now that I think about it, it makes sense to switch what I labeled "Side-Specials" with what I labeled as "Neutral-Specials". Even though Snooze seems like a Side-Special, all other moves on that list seem like they should be Neutral Specials, while the Fireball, Lightning Ray and Kacrackle Slash all seem like Side-Special potential.




Also Blade of Evil's Bane Blade of Evil's Bane , here's U-Air from the Smash Bros site
 

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#9
So as far as I can tell, The Hero has 4 specials moves on each of his specials, totaling 16 special moves.

I can tell you for a fact they aren't smashes since they don't have "smash charge" effect, which is only present in 2 moves in the trailer.

Here is my current analysis, since the trailer was at 30 FPS I can only guess 1-2 frames off what the start up of each move is like and I have no way of knowing how active a move is.

U-Tilt: Frame 8-10 (Probably 9) (FAF is in the high 40s, low 50s) (animation is exactly like TLink U-Smash)

Jab 1: Frame 4-6 (Probably 5) (Animation is exactly like Roy's jab but knockback is actually into The Hero and this is because unlike Roy, The Hero actually has a Jab 2 and 3)

B-Air: Frame 19-21(Has more than 20 frames of landing lag from a SH) (Looks kind of like TLink B-Air, not exactly the same so might be based on another aerial I am not thinking about)

Dash Attack: Hits in front on frame 23, seems to hit on top about frame 20 (Looks exactly like Link's Dash Attack and also seems to have identical frame data)

F-Smash: Hits frame 19 in front, seems to hit frame 17 on top (Animation is exactly like Roy's Neutral B which shouldn't be confused with Marth F-Smash. Look at the small jump he does and how he holds his sword with 2 hands. This is important because Roy's Neutral B has more range than Marth's F-Smash)

F-Tilt: Hits around frame 7-8 (Hits with the shield which sort of implies that the move is invincible like Palutena's Dash Attack and B-Air. Also has 2 hits on command which will allow The Hero to mix up on shield and make the move harder to punish).

D-Tilt: Cloud's D-Tilt, unfortunately the move is shown after it has already landed so I cannot know the frame data or whether or not The Hero moves forward with this D-Tilt. D-Tilt angle seems perfect for a combo starter, but unfortunately that will depend on the frame data of the move.

U-Smash: Frame 12-14 (Marth's U-Smash)

Snooze: Projectile seems to leave The Hero's hand at frame 12? Might be chargeable

N-Air: Hitbox starts around frame 8-9 on top of The Hero and hits around frame 10-12 in front of The Hero (Looks very similar to Ike's N-Air but not identical) (This also seems to have about 20 frames of landing lag from a SH, which leads me to believe his numbers haven't been tweaked yet or he is supposed to be FH and getting auto cancels because that landing lag is atrocious).




Specials:

Up-Specials:

Tornado
Zoom
???
???


Down-Specials:
Kaclang
Bounce
Kamikazee
???


Side-Specials:

Sizzle
Psyche Up
Oomph
Snooze


Neutral-Specials:

Fireball?
Lightning Ray?
Kacrackle Slash
???










Smashes have a smash charge effect before them so you can tell which ones are those. It's the one that looks like Marth's U-Smash and the one that looks like Marth's F-Smash (but it's actually Roy's Neutral B). Also the 2 hit that starts with the shield is the F-Tilt. The one that is 3 hits that starts with Roy's jab1 is his jab.
Considering Psyche Up in the games is like a charge you stand in the spot for, I would assume its more like a down B but I guess the menu says otherwise. The most interesting thing about Psyche Up in the games is that there's different levels of it.
You can get to tensions 5 (did 1.7x damage), 25 (3x), 50 (5x) and 100 (7.5x). 100 Has a special state that looks difference appearance-wise (Start glowing pink aura) but I feel like that would be something they would have shown off?
We'll eventually find out if it can be used multiple times for bonus damage or just the once.

Kamikazee is a weird one just because its literally a move that kills you. If it is selectable in a menu, I would presume its potentially shield-cancellable otherwise HOO BOY will THAT cause some salt. If it is cancellable, I wonder if you can fake out a kamikazee for mindgames or if the endlag will be too long? Only time will tell I guess.

While I'm at it, think of all the elemental spells as being named in the same way a child calls a car a vroom-vroom. Fireball is Frizz/Frizzle/Kafrizz/Kafrizzle (assuming you charge it 4 stages), Tornado is Swoosh and the lighting ray is likely Zap.
 

Chiroz

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#10
Considering Psyche Up in the games is like a charge you stand in the spot for, I would assume its more like a down B but I guess the menu says otherwise. The most interesting thing about Psyche Up in the games is that there's different levels of it.
You can get to tensions 5 (did 1.7x damage), 25 (3x), 50 (5x) and 100 (7.5x). 100 Has a special state that looks difference appearance-wise (Start glowing pink aura) but I feel like that would be something they would have shown off?
We'll eventually find out if it can be used multiple times for bonus damage or just the once.

Kamikazee is a weird one just because its literally a move that kills you. If it is selectable in a menu, I would presume its potentially shield-cancellable otherwise HOO BOY will THAT cause some salt. If it is cancellable, I wonder if you can fake out a kamikazee for mindgames or if the endlag will be too long? Only time will tell I guess.

While I'm at it, think of all the elemental spells as being named in the same way a child calls a car a vroom-vroom. Fireball is Frizz/Frizzle/Kafrizz/Kafrizzle (assuming you charge it 4 stages), Tornado is Swoosh and the lighting ray is likely Zap.
Thanks for letting me know the names! I'll rename all of the spells in my post.

That said most of the list I've made is just normal "smash" traditions, like reflectors being down-b, invulnerabilities being down-b and really niche spells being down-b (so Bounce, Kaclang and Kamikazee). It's not always the case though as we've had Side-B reflectors, so I might be wrong on some of those. I do believe the list we saw on the trailer is definitely either Side-B or Neutral-B, I doubt that both Kaclang and Bounce aren't Down-Bs (I could see Kamikazee being a Neutral B), and I think we can all agree that both Swoosh and Zoom are Up-Bs.


Edit: Also, does Zap have 4 levels as well? What about Kacrackle Slash? Is it the 4th level of something like Crack Slash?
 
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Namasura

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#11
I am happy to see The Hero dealing 1-2 slashes at most, in true dragon quest fashion.
 
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#12
So as far as I can tell, The Hero has 4 specials moves on each of his specials, totaling 16 special moves.

I can tell you for a fact they aren't smashes since they don't have "smash charge" effect, which is only present in 2 moves in the trailer.

Here is my current analysis, since the trailer was at 30 FPS I can only guess 1-2 frames off what the start up of each move is like and I have no way of knowing how active a move is.

U-Tilt: Frame 8-10 (Probably 9) (FAF is in the high 40s, low 50s) (animation is exactly like TLink U-Smash)

Jab 1: Frame 4-6 (Probably 5) (Animation is exactly like Roy's jab but knockback is actually into The Hero and this is because unlike Roy, The Hero actually has a Jab 2 and 3)

B-Air: Frame 19-21(Has more than 20 frames of landing lag from a SH) (Looks kind of like TLink B-Air, not exactly the same so might be based on another aerial I am not thinking about)

Dash Attack: Hits in front on frame 23, seems to hit on top about frame 20 (Looks exactly like Link's Dash Attack and also seems to have identical frame data)

F-Smash: Hits frame 19 in front, seems to hit frame 17 on top (Animation is exactly like Roy's Neutral B which shouldn't be confused with Marth F-Smash. Look at the small jump he does and how he holds his sword with 2 hands. This is important because Roy's Neutral B has more range than Marth's F-Smash)

F-Tilt: Hits around frame 7-8 (Hits with the shield which sort of implies that the move is invincible like Palutena's Dash Attack and B-Air. Also has 2 hits on command which will allow The Hero to mix up on shield and make the move harder to punish).

D-Tilt: Cloud's D-Tilt, unfortunately the move is shown after it has already landed so I cannot know the frame data or whether or not The Hero moves forward with this D-Tilt. D-Tilt angle seems perfect for a combo starter, but unfortunately that will depend on the frame data of the move.

U-Smash: Frame 12-14 (Marth's U-Smash)

Snooze: Projectile seems to leave The Hero's hand at frame 12? Might be chargeable

N-Air: Hitbox starts around frame 8-9 on top of The Hero and hits around frame 10-12 in front of The Hero (Looks very similar to Ike's N-Air but not identical) (This also seems to have about 20 frames of landing lag from a SH, which leads me to believe his numbers haven't been tweaked yet or he is supposed to be FH and getting auto cancels because that landing lag is atrocious).




Specials:

Up-Specials:

Swoosh
Zoom
???
???


Down-Specials:
Kaclang
Bounce
Kamikazee
???


Side-Specials:

Sizzle
Psyche Up
Oomph
Snooze


Neutral-Specials:

Frizz
Zap
Kacrackle Slash
???










Smashes have a smash charge effect before them so you can tell which ones are those. It's the one that looks like Marth's U-Smash and the one that looks like Marth's F-Smash (but it's actually Roy's Neutral B). Also the 2 hit that starts with the shield is the F-Tilt. The one that is 3 hits that starts with Roy's jab1 is his jab.
The 4 specials per directional input.. how does that work exactly do you think? Does it just cycle through as you use them?
 

Chiroz

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#13
The 4 specials per directional input.. how does that work exactly do you think? Does it just cycle through as you use them?

It isn't a cycle, we can see the player choosing between them. My personal belief is that it's a hold kind of thing. If you hold Side-B you get the menu until you choose one and then it goes off. If you just tap it you don't get a menu at all and he just does the last one selected.
 

Sean²

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#14
I'm nervous about Snooze. I feel like that could get ridiculous. Like, a projectile that puts you to sleep like Sing, but doesn't look nearly as high risk to use. Of course I'm assuming it can be reflected back or absorbed, but life may get rough for the mainly grounded characters. Calling Hero vs Little Mac 90:10 right now :chuckle:

I feel like it almost has to be a shortened version like K Rool's buries vs Roller buries.
 
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#15
Oh boi this spells are super intriguing. Can't wait to know more / play it! I love how you can see the hero thinking right before using Zoom.

Personally, I believe the menu we've seen with Sizzle, Psyche Up, Oomph and Snooze is the neutral-B, considering Bounce and Kaclang. It makes some sense to me to have buffs on the Neutral-B.

I'm not expert on DQ so Sizzle and the fire spell with seen are different? Could it be the flame pillar at 1:31 in the trailer (looks like Simon's Holy water to me).

I'd like to point out there's a thunder spell that seems to work like Cloud's blade beam (2:22 and 2:41), sorry if it's been already mentionned it's late here :p
 
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#16
I wonder if his MP recharges at all. Didnt notice if it did or not in the trailers. I could see that being something to keep in mind of when he has to recover offstage with up-b (which I can only assume uses MP). It would be somewhat dangerous to use specials too much if Hero has no way to recover MP.

Also, Swoosh was a totally vertical recovery. Now unless Zoom works more like Lucario's Up-B, it's not looking like Hero has any type of horizontal recovery so far. His recovery game could be as bad as Cloud's.
 
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tskidless

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#17
Swoosh looks like an excellent edgeguarding tool since it lingers for awhile and it could lead into things like F-air or B-air if you use it at the ledge.

Psyche up might change the other specials into their higher tier counterparts.

Ideas about the last down special are Buff which lowers the damage you take since I think that accelerate would be too good. The only other spell I could think of being used as a down special is heal.

Side special's last move I feel is either Bang, Flame Slash, or Falcon Slash.

No idea what could be the other two up special's. May be an item chimaera wing could be one so they always have a recovery and maybe Evac.
 
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#18
After seeing the animation Hero uses after reflecting projectiles with Bounce, I think maybe successfully reflecting attacks charges your MP. The same for Kaclang. Successfully blocking attacks with Kaclang can restore your MP.

It's the logical explanation. Characters have reflectors without using MP, so obviously Hero needs some sort of benefit for using MP on it.
 

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#19
After seeing the animation Hero uses after reflecting projectiles with Bounce, I think maybe successfully reflecting attacks charges your MP. The same for Kaclang. Successfully blocking attacks with Kaclang can restore your MP.

It's the logical explanation. Characters have reflectors without using MP, so obviously Hero needs some sort of benefit for using MP on it.
I mean you want more benefit than the fact that you have another 15 specials in your kit?
 
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#20
I mean you want more benefit than the fact that you have another 15 specials in your kit?
Yeah I guess you're right. We'll see, but I don't see another possible way of recovering MP unless there's a Drain Magic spell.
 
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#21
First thing I thought when I saw the menu.
Dang... both Psyche Up AND Oomph?? Op right off the bat are we?

What I love the most about this character(s) is that it seems like he’ll be a little complex. And since I promised I’d make him my solo (lol) main, and I intend to keep that promise, I’m glad he’ll be a deep and complex character.
 

S-bow64

Smash Cadet
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#23
MP might regenerate like other character's limits, with each blows landed and taken or/and over time. There's no other way around it.

The question is the amount as the spells looks quite expensives, especially the one you can charge ala DQ Heroes. We know there's Sizzle but they only showed Frizz and Kafrizz.


What I'm wondering about is Psyche up and Oomph. While Oomph might be a straight times 2 power up for a short while what does that make Psyche up ?
In DQ8 it would increase attack and defense a certain % depending on the level of charge, so we might be able to cumulate it to increase all of our stats (as in run/walk speed, jump height) until the next attack.

Or maybe one increase damage and defense and the other knockback.
 
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#24
Oh boi this spells are super intriguing. Can't wait to know more / play it! I love how you can see the hero thinking right before using Zoom.

Personally, I believe the menu we've seen with Sizzle, Psyche Up, Oomph and Snooze is the neutral-B, considering Bounce and Kaclang. It makes some sense to me to have buffs on the Neutral-B.

I'm not expert on DQ so Sizzle and the fire spell with seen are different? Could it be the flame pillar at 1:31 in the trailer (looks like Simon's Holy water to me).

I'd like to point out there's a thunder spell that seems to work like Cloud's blade beam (2:22 and 2:41), sorry if it's been already mentionned it's late here :p
Yeah the two fire spells would be different. The first fire spell shown was Frizz/Kafrizz which is a fireball, whereas Sizzle is more like a wall of fire that travels across the ground. Kind of like this:


I honestly doubt the flame pillar at 1:31 was sizzle since it doesn't really look like anything it does in the games. That clip was purely a DQ11 reference for where the party hang around a campfire.

Also the thunder spell is likely zap. Its possible it could be charged but maybe not? I would assume not since we already have frizz/kafrizz which looks chargeable.
 
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Rakurai

Smash Ace
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#25
I can't help but wonder how powerful Kamikaze is going to be, because forfeiting a stock isn't necessarily that detrimental if you can use it to secure low percent KOs when you're already at death percent especially if you have a stock lead.

I'm also half-hoping Zoom just straight-up puts you back on stage for free (Via dropping you off where the respawn platform would place you), albeit with an extreme MP cost to justify being an essentially flawless recovery move (Short of maybe being able to hit your head on the underside of the stage, since it's a running trend to deny the spell's use indoors).
 
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#26
Yeah the two fire spells would be different. The first fire spell shown was Frizz/Kafrizz which is a fireball, whereas Sizzle is more like a wall of fire that travels across the ground. Kind of like this:


I honestly doubt the flame pillar at 1:31 was sizzle since it doesn't really look like anything it does in the games. That clip was purely a DQ11 reference for where the party hang around a campfire.

Also the thunder spell is likely zap. Its possible it could be charged but maybe not? I would assume not since we already have frizz/kafrizz which looks chargeable.
I see! Maybe Sizzle will work on both side of the Hero then, could be interesting.
For the thunder spell, after looking more into it, they are the same and visibly chargeable. For one frame, you can see Erdrick strike the same pose as the Luminary.


Also, it seems to not be a projectile, but a long range attack like ZSS side-B, as Erdrick's weak version go through Snake. (on the other hand, Lucario's side B and even Joker's Up-B can be reflected, so maybe it will count as one anyway).

Also, Kamikazee. Not only it's intangible, but it ignore shields. This thing will be one heck of a move for sure.
 

S-bow64

Smash Cadet
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#27
Kamikaze seems to have quite a lot of start-up (like Electrode when it turns black) and the visual cue is kinda in your face, on top of that you forfeit that stock so I'm sure it's an instant kill.

It might have a reverse % effect, where it becomes weaker as your % goes up but I don't really see the point since it's so telegraphed.
 
Joined
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#28
Kamikaze seems to follow what Nintendo likes with the Suicide moves, you die first and you opponent has a chance to die after.
 
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#29
Kamikaze seems to have quite a lot of start-up (like Electrode when it turns black) and the visual cue is kinda in your face, on top of that you forfeit that stock so I'm sure it's an instant kill.

It might have a reverse % effect, where it becomes weaker as your % goes up but I don't really see the point since it's so telegraphed.
Considering the "spell rings" that appears it doesn't seems to have so much startup for what it is (seems still slower than a Warlock Punch, but we can't say for sure what the frame data is for now). I don't see it becoming weaker, as you do take your stock for it. It's probably for the purpose of the presentation but it's seems to have a a slow down effect like the Bomber item.

Kamikaze seems to follow what Nintendo likes with the Suicide moves, you die first and you opponent has a chance to die after.
Makes sense as you die before characters are sent flying!
 
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meleebrawler
#30
Considering Psyche Up in the games is like a charge you stand in the spot for, I would assume its more like a down B but I guess the menu says otherwise. The most interesting thing about Psyche Up in the games is that there's different levels of it.
You can get to tensions 5 (did 1.7x damage), 25 (3x), 50 (5x) and 100 (7.5x). 100 Has a special state that looks difference appearance-wise (Start glowing pink aura) but I feel like that would be something they would have shown off?
We'll eventually find out if it can be used multiple times for bonus damage or just the once.

Kamikazee is a weird one just because its literally a move that kills you. If it is selectable in a menu, I would presume its potentially shield-cancellable otherwise HOO BOY will THAT cause some salt. If it is cancellable, I wonder if you can fake out a kamikazee for mindgames or if the endlag will be too long? Only time will tell I guess.

While I'm at it, think of all the elemental spells as being named in the same way a child calls a car a vroom-vroom. Fireball is Frizz/Frizzle/Kafrizz/Kafrizzle (assuming you charge it 4 stages), Tornado is Swoosh and the lighting ray is likely Zap.
In the Bounce clip it looks like he uses Psyche Up, looks like your typical DBZ power-up stance.
 
Joined
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#32
That makes me wonder: we already know 12 spells, and if we're going by the idea Chiroz Chiroz has, than there are 4 spells we don't know about yet. While doing some research into some Dragon Quest spells, I'm thinking that one of them could be something like Kaboom, where it's not as powerful as Kamikazee but deals recoil damage instead of instantly KO'ing yourself. In addition, maybe Magic Burst is also one of the spells, dealing more damage the more MP you had when you casted it?
 
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punchtropics
#33
That makes me wonder: we already know 12 spells, and if we're going by the idea Chiroz Chiroz has, than there are 4 spells we don't know about yet. While doing some research into some Dragon Quest spells, I'm thinking that one of them could be something like Kaboom, where it's not as powerful as Kamikazee but deals recoil damage instead of instantly KO'ing yourself. In addition, maybe Magic Burst is also one of the spells, dealing more damage the more MP you had when you casted it?
Those are great!

Personally, I hope we get:

Fizzle: (puts opponent in Single Button Smash mode for a brief period)

(Ka)Boom: (Explosion attack)

MP Steal: (If connects, you recover MP)

Envenomate: (Cloud of toxic fumes that poisons target)
 

Sean²

Smash Capitalist
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#34
I could see Kamikaze as a ledge trap tool when you're a stock up. Kind of how Ike players cover all getup options by charging Eruption, except more powerful and it takes you with them. My god, this character could be ridiculous with momentum.
 

Chiroz

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#36
His dash attack looks like a straight-up ripoff from Link's lmao
Most of his normals are ripoffs of other chars.

B-Air is Joker's
N-Air is Ike's
U-Tilt is TLink's U-Smash
U-Smash is Marth's
F-Smash is Roy's Neutral-B
Jab 1 is Roy's

The difference will be in how they work and their frame data. Plus most of the interesting things about this char seems to come from his spells which he has plenty of unique ones.
 
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#37
To be honest, they are simply sword attacks. And I can understand that they reuse and modify some animations to reduce some work.

There's only the Dash Attack and Up-Smash where it personally feels like "it's another character move" to me, especially the dash.

On the other hand, the F-Tilt seems rather unique, being a shield bash followed by a sword attack.
 

Chiroz

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#38
To be honest, they are simply sword attacks. And I can understand that they reuse and modify some animations to reduce some work.

There's only the Dash Attack and Up-Smash where it personally feels like "it's another character move" to me, especially the dash.

On the other hand, the F-Tilt seems rather unique, being a shield bash followed by a sword attack.
I hope he uses his shield for F-Air or D-Air, I want more shield moves, lol.



Animations are not the end all be all. Depending on their hitbox, angle, knockback, frame data, Eerdrick's run speed, jump height, fall speed, air drift, moves will be used in completely different ways.
 
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Jade_Rock

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jul 20, 2012
Messages
143
#39
My most wanted is finally in!

So 2 up specials, 1 Down and 1 side is what it seems like we are missing?

Down Specials
-Buff-Reduces knock back or damage taken
-Heal-Lowers your %
-Drain Magic- Shoots a projectile that doesn't do damage or hitstun but will restore 20 or 25mp but takes a moment to cast
Note: I hope it's like this because I don't want another gain something for taking damage character.
-Magic Burst-Damage based on remaining mp
-Magic Barrier/insulate-Reduce damage from energy based attacks

Side Specials
-Maybe a weapon like tossing a boomerang?
-Some of my other ideas? Idk running out of noteworthy spells and I haven't played every DQ
-Evac-Horizontal Teleport
-Poison spell does damage over time like joker side b
Up Special
-Fly on an actual dragon
- I have another but how do I place spoilers?
-Doesnt have to be a recovery tbh he has two and things like sing aren't recoveries, can be any spell.

Other than spells idk seems pretty basic sword movements not too much to say there.
 

OldHickory

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#40
His dash attack looks like a straight-up ripoff from Link's lmao
Doesn't hurt that he's got the same shield effect as Link, too.
Understandably so, as Zelda and DQ used to make jabs at one another in small references.
 
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