Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!
You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!
It appears that you are using ad block :'(
Hey, we get it. However this website is run by and for the community... and it needs ads in order to keep running.
Please disable your adblock on Smashboards, or go premium to hide all advertisements and this notice. Alternatively, this ad may have just failed to load. Woops!
Just another idea for random, for 'if' it would be getting random spells. New spells could be 'earned' somehow, like by attacking a certain amount or just a certain amount of time, and you would kind of get a sense of leveling up and having a new spell, but it's a random one and would replace the oldest one in the menu.
Much better idea in that train of thought, is that every direction has a menu, but you start out with only the default spells on them, and then you 'acquire' new spells for each one, but the order that you get new ones is random, so you have to adjust according to which spells you get for them.
The second one feels like the most fun one to me, and i wouldn't mind something like that. But i still dont really know what could really be.
Just another idea for random, for 'if' it would be getting random spells. New spells could be 'earned' somehow, like by attacking a certain amount or just a certain amount of time, and you would kind of get a sense of leveling up and having a new spell, but it's a random one and would replace the oldest one in the menu.
Much better idea in that train of thought, is that every direction has a menu, but you start out with only the default spells on them, and then you 'acquire' new spells for each one, but the order that you get new ones is random, so you have to adjust according to which spells you get for them.
The second one feels like the most fun one to me, and i wouldn't mind something like that. But i still dont really know what could really be.
The first idea sounds a lot like Pokémon.
Where you have 4 attacks, then you learn a new one, and you have to replace one of them with the new one. Would be cool. Don’t know how you’d do that on the fly, but cool to think about.
Nah I wouldn't say close to none. Maybe a little unlikely, but i think it's still one of the ways they couldve thought to do it, if it really has some randomness.
At least it can give an idea how something around it could be fun. Doesnt have to be like it.
Ganon U-Tilt, Warlock Punch, Falcon Punch, Yoshi Side-B, and so on and so forth. There are plenty of moves that are nigh unusable. There have been moves that have been added knowing very well that it will never be used in a competitive environment. Also at times there are moves meant to only work in chaos where everyone is not paying attention. Plus this move actually has a "fun factor" to it that those other unusable moves don't even have.
Sure, I and I can still see him being likable in spite of the menu being unusable. But the thing is, from what we've seen Hero is basically just a sword character with a couple seemingly fairly simple projectiles + the menu. All the moves you listed are attached to characters with playstyles that really stand out; I don't really get the feeling that's the case with Hero from the trailer.
Of course, it can never be said too many times that we have almost no info right now, so we'll see.
Sakurai loves Dragon Quest. So does the rest of the dev team. And so do almost all of Japan.
Do you honestly think he's gonna make a decision for their moveset that would be so unpopular that even several Dragon Quest fans who wanted to play as The Hero would decide against seriously playing as them? Several Smash players in Japan have wanted a Dragon Quest character in Smash for so long, and I just can't see the developers implementing them in such a way that would be so alienating and polarizing to them.
It would be the equivalent of finally putting, say, Cloud in Smash, and making his gimmick that he has hunt down randomly spawning Materia on the stage before he can use any special attacks at all. Most of the special moves the Materia give you would he super situational and not worth the effort of hunting them down mid fight. I think even a lot of Cloud / FF7 fans would be bewildered and put off by the mechanic, calling into question why the developers ever thought it was a fun idea.
So I don't find the idea of completely 100% RNG spells / skills realistic at all. Especially since, if this is part of Square Enix's strategy to get more Western players into Dragon Quest, it would be a bad decision given that they failed to account for how much Smash players loathe unwanted RNG (Judge and Vegetables are fine cuz it's a single move you can use or not use, compared to Brawl's tripping, so the former is wanted and the latter is unwanted). I just don't see them screwing up that badly.
Sakurai loves Dragon Quest. So does the rest of the dev team. And so do almost all of Japan.
Do you honestly think he's gonna make a decision for their moveset that would be so unpopular that even several Dragon Quest fans who wanted to play as The Hero would decide against seriously playing as them? Several Smash players in Japan have wanted a Dragon Quest character in Smash for so long, and I just can't see the developers implementing them in such a way that would be so alienating and polarizing to them.
It would be the equivalent of finally putting, say, Cloud in Smash, and making his gimmick that he has hunt down randomly spawning Materia on the stage before he can use any special attacks at all. Most of the special moves the Materia give you would he super situational and not worth the effort of hunting them down mid fight. I think even a lot of Cloud / FF7 fans would be bewildered and put off by the mechanic, calling into question why the developers ever thought it was a fun idea.
So I don't find the idea of completely 100% RNG spells / skills realistic at all. Especially since, if this is part of Square Enix's strategy to get more Western players into Dragon Quest, it would be a bad decision given that they failed to account for how much Smash players loathe unwanted RNG (Judge and Vegetables are fine cuz it's a single move you can use or not use, compared to Brawl's tripping, so the former is wanted and the latter is unwanted). I just don't see them screwing up that badly.
On top of that, it isn't how Dragon Quest battle menus operate at all. With how much Ultimate DLC has prided itself on crafting faithful and creative gameplay mechanics while throwing in references both beloved and obscure, this would turn a complete 180 away from that design philosophy. Sakurai's team is already well aware of the massive tripping backlash from Brawl and to now apply a more severe version of that to a franchise their home country adores? Despite what translations may imply, I've never bought into the RNG idea. It's classic Sakurai ambiguity until further notice in my opinion.
Alright, since all this RNG has worn us all out and maybe disappointed us a little bit, how about we throw ideas around of how a non-rng, single menu of Magic abilities could work?
Only thing that comes to mind for me is:
Menu (a)
Sizzle
Psyche
Oomph
Snooze
(Press left or right)
If you press right:
Menu (b)
Zoom
Kackrackle Slash
Bounce
Kacklang
(Press left or right)
If you press right:
Menu (c)
Heal?
Kamikaze
???
???
So the idea is that with Down B you open a menu.
As you keep holding B, you press down to scroll through the 4 spells of menu A.
If you press up when the first spell is highlighted, the cursor warps to the fourth one (same of you press down while the 4th spell is highlighted).
If you press right you access the next menu, if you press left you access the previous menu.
When you release B, the highlighted spell is cast.
This is how I see a non RNG system working.
Also... when did we get the idea that we’d get 16 spells again? In my eyes we’ll now have 12 at most, now that I’ve come to terms with Neutral, Tilt, and Up specials being Frizz, Zap, and Whoosh.
This is how I see a non RNG system working.
Also... when did we get the idea that we’d get 16 spells again? In my eyes we’ll now have 12 at most, now that I’ve come to terms with Neutral, Tilt, and Up specials being Frizz, Zap, and Whoosh.
The idea was each special input (neutral, up, down, and side) would open different a menu with 4 spells each, so 16 total. But I like your idea better, actually.
The idea was each special input (neutral, up, down, and side) would open different a menu with 4 spells each, so 16 total. But I like your idea better, actually.
Aaah right! Yeah, math does add up if that had been the case. Too bad, we’d still have like 5 spells left to discover! Tbh I’m not even sure Heal will be a thing, but I hope it is!
Aaah right! Yeah, math does add up if that had been the case. Too bad, we’d still have like 5 spells left to discover! Tbh I’m not even sure Heal will be a thing, but I hope it is!
Honestly that could be better. Frizz zap and swoosh have charge levels and seem to be more versatile compared to the rest. I wouldn't want to replace zap with Kacrackle slash for example as that is a very niche use against much less matchups most likely.
Anyone have any other spell ideas they can use? Also Kacrackle slash isn't a spell and is it even used by a hero? I know a killing machine uses it. I haven't played them all though.
I'm wondering if something like holy protection as a buff but maybe we have too many of those? I still want another weapon like a boomerang but don't see that happening.
Kacrackle slash can be learned by heroes who can take up armamentalist class
As for spells I’d like to see:
- Buff
- Whistle (call forth a Slime)
- Fire Slash (could be like Roy’a B at 1/2 power)
- MP Drain (faster way to regain MP than fleeing)
- Disruptive wave (clear opponent of stat buffs, item effects, and stored charge attacks).
- Metal Slash (shield breaking move)
I was going to list that counter move which name escapes me (it’s more of an attack deflector) to embrace the swordsmanship curse :3 but I think I want to see a shieldbreaker more.
Kacrackle slash can be learned by heroes who can take up armamentalist class
As for spells I’d like to see:
- Buff
- Whistle (call forth a Slime)
- Fire Slash (could be like Roy’a B at 1/2 power)
- MP Drain (faster way to regain MP than fleeing)
- Disruptive wave (clear opponent of stat buffs, item effects, and stored charge attacks).
- Metal Slash (shield breaking move)
I was going to list that counter move which name escapes me (it’s more of an attack deflector) to embrace the swordsmanship curse :3 but I think I want to see a shieldbreaker more.
These are great ideas! Personally I think metal slash is pretty iconic to the series and metal slimes are well known rare exp enemies, a shield breaker would of course be great.
I don't want more buffs, disruptive wave is interesting and I think the counter is very possible given our past history with sword fighters.
Whistle could call a monster to attack the enemy. A slime attacking right in front of you sounds likely. Or maybe a slime knight would look more practical for attacking? Mp drain may not be necessary considering we don't know how mp refills.
Kacrackle slash can be learned by heroes who can take up armamentalist class
As for spells I’d like to see:
- Buff
- Whistle (call forth a Slime)
- Fire Slash (could be like Roy’a B at 1/2 power)
- MP Drain (faster way to regain MP than fleeing)
- Disruptive wave (clear opponent of stat buffs, item effects, and stored charge attacks).
- Metal Slash (shield breaking move)
I was going to list that counter move which name escapes me (it’s more of an attack deflector) to embrace the swordsmanship curse :3 but I think I want to see a shieldbreaker more.
I honestly don’t know where to go post-game. I want to keep playing it, but I’m lost.
It doesn’t help that the camera angle makes me feel cramped most of the time, so it’s hard to keep playing for a long time.
So looking through the various abilities done in the games, I can actually imagine Knuckle Sandwich being his forward throw. And maybe Bazoom can be a spell that functions similarly to Cloud's Finishing Touch?
I honestly don’t know where to go post-game. I want to keep playing it, but I’m lost.
It doesn’t help that the camera angle makes me feel cramped most of the time, so it’s hard to keep playing for a long time.
For dq7? can't help you there, but it's usually easy enough to find stuff about that, like just searching for the game and 'post-game content'.
or just exploring in the game randomly.
So looking through the various abilities done in the games, I can actually imagine Knuckle Sandwich being his forward throw. And maybe Bazoom can be a spell that functions similarly to Cloud's Finishing Touch?
Could be interesting, but it doesn't strike me as a move that would have a hitbox. Maybe just a windbox? Does Swoosh have a windbox? It looked like a bunch of hits only.
Apologies for the bump of a topic that's almost a week old, and not sure if this is already discussed since I haven't had a good chance to dig through the rest of the topic / Chiroz's videos, but thought I should point something out:
If we take another good look at Kacrackle Slash, it actually resembles FTilt2 pose and animation wise nearly to a T, with a few key differences (refer attached spoiler GIFs, size warning):
The actual sword swing motion is the same, but the hitstun frames from Eight's strike vs Erdrick's are greater (roughly by five frames?, I recorded 12 frames for FTilt2's GIF vs 17 for Kacrackle Slash's) and the sword strike's range is a bit longer, likely from the freezing effect of the attack. Also if you notice carefully, Eight's shield is on his back; although I didn't add it to the gif, you can see him re-equip the shield at the end of the move (It's roughly 2min32sec into the Hero YouTube vid). But why would Eight go straight into FTilt2 with a stowed shield, when FTilt usually requires a shield bash first?
What made me more interested in this beyond 'it's probably just a skill from the spell list' are these two not-really-new-anymore press release images of Luminary performing Usmash:
Notice how Luminary also has his shield on his back in the second image? It seems odd that an otherwise run of the mill standard sword attack would require a stowed shield, though in this case as like Kacrackle Slash, it could be to emphasize the magic being cast (if anything it sorta looks like Luminary cast DQXI Zap on himself?). His post USmash stance otherwise being minutely different is likely due to the camera angle and minor difference in the frame of his attack recovery animation.
Getting to the point though: although I haven't played DQ, while perhaps the image of the lightning charged USmash could represent a sword elemental strike skill, I'm aware there isn't really a true lightning element sword strike skill save for Gigaslash (which is already the FS), or its super powered version Gigagash (which has been shown to require two arms for the charge, which is never seen with Hero's animations so far); the strangely named Lightning Slash isn't actually lightning type. In this case, I don't think it doesn't make much sense for this move to be a Smash original and take up a skill/spell slot at the expense of something actually from the games and likely more iconic / have unique utility; not to mention, which spell menu would it fit on? Side is probably the one with Snooze et al, and it doesn't really fit the concept of a neutral, up or down special all that nicely. Which makes me think this attack has to be linked to Zap somehow.
As we know already though, Zap has at least two other charge states which fire projectiles. Putting this together, my theory is that at least with Zap, which would be on neutral special, there is a means to charge the spell, yet not use it as a projectile and instead apply it to a sword strike (probably a grounded one since I can't imagine any of the sword aerials with an elemental attribute looking too flash), perhaps on a full charge. Perhaps the Kacrackle Slash is similarly Crackle fully charged applied onto FTilt2, which would mean Crackle has its own chargeable state projectiles. I admit it is a bit odd why we've only seen just USmash and FTilt2 gain an elemental effect so far. Could this elemental sword strike application this apply to the Frizz line as well, which we already know shares the chargeable projectile property of Zap, and given what we know is probably on neutral special too? Given Swoosh looks likely to be confined to up special, we're then left with Boom and Zam lines left to fill in as the fourth spell option, but I can't see how Boom would work all that well for a projectile, and Zam feels... kinda nonheroic? /shrug
In summary here are my thoughts (ofc all speculative, for what it's worth we could just be stuck with boring Kacrackle Slash with no Crackle spells):
> Frizz / Crackle / Zap and possibly one more non-Swoosh elemental spell tree share the neutral special menu
> the spells can be charged up to different tiers (confirmed for at least Frizz and Zap)
> instead of releasing the charge as a projectile, I am theorizing that you can instead store a full charge for use in a sword strike, granting the relevant elemental property (seems to be a thing for Zap + USmash; Kacrackle Slash could possibly be this for Crackle + FTilt2)
--> as a corollary of the above, certain parts of a multi hit standard attack could be skipped over if the elemental slash is being performed (seems to currently apply to FTilt; could it apply to something like Jab? I'm personally a bit doubtful and instead Jab just functions normally)
If the above turns out to be the case, it would certainly add a fair amount of complexity for Hero just from standard special (and think of the tools Kirby could have; Kacrackle FSmash anyone? D8 ), and I'm actually excited to see if it pans out - there's a whole door open having the choice to space with projectiles with differing properties, or sacrificing more MP for a more devastating and debilitating strike. Also I think it's pretty cool for the classical triad of magic to be finally represented properly in a moveset (ironic it's DQ and not say FF to do it, but Cloud is Cloud lol) - Zelda doesn't cover lightning nor would I say ice, and Robin doesn't cover ice (gotta love ice = wind logic in FE).
Apologies for the bump of a topic that's almost a week old, and not sure if this is already discussed since I haven't had a good chance to dig through the rest of the topic / Chiroz's videos, but thought I should point something out:
If we take another good look at Kacrackle Slash, it actually resembles FTilt2 pose and animation wise nearly to a T, with a few key differences (refer attached spoiler GIFs, size warning):
The actual sword swing motion is the same, but the hitstun frames from Eight's strike vs Erdrick's are greater (roughly by five frames?, I recorded 12 frames for FTilt2's GIF vs 17 for Kacrackle Slash's) and the sword strike's range is a bit longer, likely from the freezing effect of the attack. Also if you notice carefully, Eight's shield is on his back; although I didn't add it to the gif, you can see him re-equip the shield at the end of the move (It's roughly 2min32sec into the Hero YouTube vid). But why would Eight go straight into FTilt2 with a stowed shield, when FTilt usually requires a shield bash first?
What made me more interested in this beyond 'it's probably just a skill from the spell list' are these two not-really-new-anymore press release images of Luminary performing Usmash:
Notice how Luminary also has his shield on his back in the second image? It seems odd that an otherwise run of the mill standard sword attack would require a stowed shield, though in this case as like Kacrackle Slash, it could be to emphasize the magic being cast (if anything it sorta looks like Luminary cast DQXI Zap on himself?). His post USmash stance otherwise being minutely different is likely due to the camera angle and minor difference in the frame of his attack recovery animation.
Getting to the point though: although I haven't played DQ, while perhaps the image of the lightning charged USmash could represent a sword elemental strike skill, I'm aware there isn't really a true lightning element sword strike skill save for Gigaslash (which is already the FS), or its super powered version Gigagash (which has been shown to require two arms for the charge, which is never seen with Hero's animations so far); the strangely named Lightning Slash isn't actually lightning type. In this case, I don't think it doesn't make much sense for this move to be a Smash original and take up a skill/spell slot at the expense of something actually from the games and likely more iconic / have unique utility; not to mention, which spell menu would it fit on? Side is probably the one with Snooze et al, and it doesn't really fit the concept of a neutral, up or down special all that nicely. Which makes me think this attack has to be linked to Zap somehow.
As we know already though, Zap has at least two other charge states which fire projectiles. Putting this together, my theory is that at least with Zap, which would be on neutral special, there is a means to charge the spell, yet not use it as a projectile and instead apply it to a sword strike (probably a grounded one since I can't imagine any of the sword aerials with an elemental attribute looking too flash), perhaps on a full charge. Perhaps the Kacrackle Slash is similarly Crackle fully charged applied onto FTilt2, which would mean Crackle has its own chargeable state projectiles. I admit it is a bit odd why we've only seen just USmash and FTilt2 gain an elemental effect so far. Could this elemental sword strike application this apply to the Frizz line as well, which we already know shares the chargeable projectile property of Zap, and given what we know is probably on neutral special too? Given Swoosh looks likely to be confined to up special, we're then left with Boom and Zam lines left to fill in as the fourth spell option, but I can't see how Boom would work all that well for a projectile, and Zam feels... kinda nonheroic? /shrug
In summary here are my thoughts (ofc all speculative, for what it's worth we could just be stuck with boring Kacrackle Slash with no Crackle spells):
> Frizz / Crackle / Zap and possibly one more non-Swoosh elemental spell tree share the neutral special menu
> the spells can be charged up to different tiers (confirmed for at least Frizz and Zap)
> instead of releasing the charge as a projectile, I am theorizing that you can instead store a full charge for use in a sword strike, granting the relevant elemental property (seems to be a thing for Zap + USmash; Kacrackle Slash could possibly be this for Crackle + FTilt2)
--> as a corollary of the above, certain parts of a multi hit standard attack could be skipped over if the elemental slash is being performed (seems to currently apply to FTilt; could it apply to something like Jab? I'm personally a bit doubtful and instead Jab just functions normally)
If the above turns out to be the case, it would certainly add a fair amount of complexity for Hero just from standard special (and think of the tools Kirby could have; Kacrackle FSmash anyone? D8 ), and I'm actually excited to see if it pans out - there's a whole door open having the choice to space with projectiles with differing properties, or sacrificing more MP for a more devastating and debilitating strike. Also I think it's pretty cool for the classical triad of magic to be finally represented properly in a moveset (ironic it's DQ and not say FF to do it, but Cloud is Cloud lol) - Zelda doesn't cover lightning nor would I say ice, and Robin doesn't cover ice (gotta love ice = wind logic in FE).
Nice! Been a while since there’s been discussion here.
Ok so Yeah, i did notice the un equipped shield. Not sure why that decision was made unless they wanted to give these moves extra lag?
1) I do agree that Crackle’s absence is bizarre. Some say it would be redundant with Kacrackle slash’s presence.
But this is my take:
If we get 3 mapped specials, Zap, Friz, and Whoosh are them, and they’re all chargeable. (Look at the part where Hero is slowly falling while “holding” magic right before releasing Kaswhoosh.
These charge levels work differently:
Zap: Seems mostly angle oriented charge (maybe power as well)
Frizz: Seems mostly power (and size) based.
Whoosh: Seems size (and maybe distance) based.
2) The rest will be relegated to the menu.
Also, Zap is always cast from the sword.
That upsmash with zap properties might be part one of either Kazap or Zapple. Or that might be the actual attack of one of those which works like a Pika Thunderbolt.
If it’s a neutral B, it would be Charge, tilt up, release, for example.
Apologies for the bump of a topic that's almost a week old, and not sure if this is already discussed since I haven't had a good chance to dig through the rest of the topic / Chiroz's videos, but thought I should point something out:
If we take another good look at Kacrackle Slash, it actually resembles FTilt2 pose and animation wise nearly to a T, with a few key differences (refer attached spoiler GIFs, size warning):
The actual sword swing motion is the same, but the hitstun frames from Eight's strike vs Erdrick's are greater (roughly by five frames?, I recorded 12 frames for FTilt2's GIF vs 17 for Kacrackle Slash's) and the sword strike's range is a bit longer, likely from the freezing effect of the attack. Also if you notice carefully, Eight's shield is on his back; although I didn't add it to the gif, you can see him re-equip the shield at the end of the move (It's roughly 2min32sec into the Hero YouTube vid). But why would Eight go straight into FTilt2 with a stowed shield, when FTilt usually requires a shield bash first?
What made me more interested in this beyond 'it's probably just a skill from the spell list' are these two not-really-new-anymore press release images of Luminary performing Usmash:
Notice how Luminary also has his shield on his back in the second image? It seems odd that an otherwise run of the mill standard sword attack would require a stowed shield, though in this case as like Kacrackle Slash, it could be to emphasize the magic being cast (if anything it sorta looks like Luminary cast DQXI Zap on himself?). His post USmash stance otherwise being minutely different is likely due to the camera angle and minor difference in the frame of his attack recovery animation.
Getting to the point though: although I haven't played DQ, while perhaps the image of the lightning charged USmash could represent a sword elemental strike skill, I'm aware there isn't really a true lightning element sword strike skill save for Gigaslash (which is already the FS), or its super powered version Gigagash (which has been shown to require two arms for the charge, which is never seen with Hero's animations so far); the strangely named Lightning Slash isn't actually lightning type. In this case, I don't think it doesn't make much sense for this move to be a Smash original and take up a skill/spell slot at the expense of something actually from the games and likely more iconic / have unique utility; not to mention, which spell menu would it fit on? Side is probably the one with Snooze et al, and it doesn't really fit the concept of a neutral, up or down special all that nicely. Which makes me think this attack has to be linked to Zap somehow.
As we know already though, Zap has at least two other charge states which fire projectiles. Putting this together, my theory is that at least with Zap, which would be on neutral special, there is a means to charge the spell, yet not use it as a projectile and instead apply it to a sword strike (probably a grounded one since I can't imagine any of the sword aerials with an elemental attribute looking too flash), perhaps on a full charge. Perhaps the Kacrackle Slash is similarly Crackle fully charged applied onto FTilt2, which would mean Crackle has its own chargeable state projectiles. I admit it is a bit odd why we've only seen just USmash and FTilt2 gain an elemental effect so far. Could this elemental sword strike application this apply to the Frizz line as well, which we already know shares the chargeable projectile property of Zap, and given what we know is probably on neutral special too? Given Swoosh looks likely to be confined to up special, we're then left with Boom and Zam lines left to fill in as the fourth spell option, but I can't see how Boom would work all that well for a projectile, and Zam feels... kinda nonheroic? /shrug
In summary here are my thoughts (ofc all speculative, for what it's worth we could just be stuck with boring Kacrackle Slash with no Crackle spells):
> Frizz / Crackle / Zap and possibly one more non-Swoosh elemental spell tree share the neutral special menu
> the spells can be charged up to different tiers (confirmed for at least Frizz and Zap)
> instead of releasing the charge as a projectile, I am theorizing that you can instead store a full charge for use in a sword strike, granting the relevant elemental property (seems to be a thing for Zap + USmash; Kacrackle Slash could possibly be this for Crackle + FTilt2)
--> as a corollary of the above, certain parts of a multi hit standard attack could be skipped over if the elemental slash is being performed (seems to currently apply to FTilt; could it apply to something like Jab? I'm personally a bit doubtful and instead Jab just functions normally)
If the above turns out to be the case, it would certainly add a fair amount of complexity for Hero just from standard special (and think of the tools Kirby could have; Kacrackle FSmash anyone? D8 ), and I'm actually excited to see if it pans out - there's a whole door open having the choice to space with projectiles with differing properties, or sacrificing more MP for a more devastating and debilitating strike. Also I think it's pretty cool for the classical triad of magic to be finally represented properly in a moveset (ironic it's DQ and not say FF to do it, but Cloud is Cloud lol) - Zelda doesn't cover lightning nor would I say ice, and Robin doesn't cover ice (gotta love ice = wind logic in FE).
You pose many good points here! It would be interesting if you can charge Frizz/Crackle/Zap then store it into another attack. Also, as I read your post that gave me an idea:
The Spell Menus are different movesets altogether. I know that sounds ridiculous, because if we’re going by the trailer, that would mean Neutral B would be Oomph, Side B Snooze, Down B Psych Up and Up B Sizzle. But that last one doesn’t make sense. Sizzle seems like an attack similar to PK Fire or Holy Water, why would Sizzle be used for recovery? I mean, unless there’s a hidden use for Sizzle as a recovery move, I don’t know how that makes sense. I’m just saying that if Frizz, Crackle and Zap are all Neutral Specials from different Spell Menus, the fact that you can store spells into your sword would make Hero’s gimmick all the more interesting.
Apologies for the bump of a topic that's almost a week old, and not sure if this is already discussed since I haven't had a good chance to dig through the rest of the topic / Chiroz's videos, but thought I should point something out:
If we take another good look at Kacrackle Slash, it actually resembles FTilt2 pose and animation wise nearly to a T, with a few key differences (refer attached spoiler GIFs, size warning):
The actual sword swing motion is the same, but the hitstun frames from Eight's strike vs Erdrick's are greater (roughly by five frames?, I recorded 12 frames for FTilt2's GIF vs 17 for Kacrackle Slash's) and the sword strike's range is a bit longer, likely from the freezing effect of the attack. Also if you notice carefully, Eight's shield is on his back; although I didn't add it to the gif, you can see him re-equip the shield at the end of the move (It's roughly 2min32sec into the Hero YouTube vid). But why would Eight go straight into FTilt2 with a stowed shield, when FTilt usually requires a shield bash first?
What made me more interested in this beyond 'it's probably just a skill from the spell list' are these two not-really-new-anymore press release images of Luminary performing Usmash:
Notice how Luminary also has his shield on his back in the second image? It seems odd that an otherwise run of the mill standard sword attack would require a stowed shield, though in this case as like Kacrackle Slash, it could be to emphasize the magic being cast (if anything it sorta looks like Luminary cast DQXI Zap on himself?). His post USmash stance otherwise being minutely different is likely due to the camera angle and minor difference in the frame of his attack recovery animation.
Getting to the point though: although I haven't played DQ, while perhaps the image of the lightning charged USmash could represent a sword elemental strike skill, I'm aware there isn't really a true lightning element sword strike skill save for Gigaslash (which is already the FS), or its super powered version Gigagash (which has been shown to require two arms for the charge, which is never seen with Hero's animations so far); the strangely named Lightning Slash isn't actually lightning type. In this case, I don't think it doesn't make much sense for this move to be a Smash original and take up a skill/spell slot at the expense of something actually from the games and likely more iconic / have unique utility; not to mention, which spell menu would it fit on? Side is probably the one with Snooze et al, and it doesn't really fit the concept of a neutral, up or down special all that nicely. Which makes me think this attack has to be linked to Zap somehow.
As we know already though, Zap has at least two other charge states which fire projectiles. Putting this together, my theory is that at least with Zap, which would be on neutral special, there is a means to charge the spell, yet not use it as a projectile and instead apply it to a sword strike (probably a grounded one since I can't imagine any of the sword aerials with an elemental attribute looking too flash), perhaps on a full charge. Perhaps the Kacrackle Slash is similarly Crackle fully charged applied onto FTilt2, which would mean Crackle has its own chargeable state projectiles. I admit it is a bit odd why we've only seen just USmash and FTilt2 gain an elemental effect so far. Could this elemental sword strike application this apply to the Frizz line as well, which we already know shares the chargeable projectile property of Zap, and given what we know is probably on neutral special too? Given Swoosh looks likely to be confined to up special, we're then left with Boom and Zam lines left to fill in as the fourth spell option, but I can't see how Boom would work all that well for a projectile, and Zam feels... kinda nonheroic? /shrug
In summary here are my thoughts (ofc all speculative, for what it's worth we could just be stuck with boring Kacrackle Slash with no Crackle spells):
> Frizz / Crackle / Zap and possibly one more non-Swoosh elemental spell tree share the neutral special menu
> the spells can be charged up to different tiers (confirmed for at least Frizz and Zap)
> instead of releasing the charge as a projectile, I am theorizing that you can instead store a full charge for use in a sword strike, granting the relevant elemental property (seems to be a thing for Zap + USmash; Kacrackle Slash could possibly be this for Crackle + FTilt2)
--> as a corollary of the above, certain parts of a multi hit standard attack could be skipped over if the elemental slash is being performed (seems to currently apply to FTilt; could it apply to something like Jab? I'm personally a bit doubtful and instead Jab just functions normally)
If the above turns out to be the case, it would certainly add a fair amount of complexity for Hero just from standard special (and think of the tools Kirby could have; Kacrackle FSmash anyone? D8 ), and I'm actually excited to see if it pans out - there's a whole door open having the choice to space with projectiles with differing properties, or sacrificing more MP for a more devastating and debilitating strike. Also I think it's pretty cool for the classical triad of magic to be finally represented properly in a moveset (ironic it's DQ and not say FF to do it, but Cloud is Cloud lol) - Zelda doesn't cover lightning nor would I say ice, and Robin doesn't cover ice (gotta love ice = wind logic in FE).
My opinions are pointed out on my video but mostly as a summary:
The animations have slight differences between both U-Smash and what I presume to be Up-Angled Zaple/Kazap(le) and also between F-Tilt2 and KS.
You can see the left knee, the face positioning, the eyes and the way he is holding the sword are all different between U-Smash and Kazap. You can see that when Hero stands up after KS the animation is different not only on the arm (which bends backwards to grab the shield) but also on how he stands up his lower body.
To me it would be immensely weird for them to change the animation of 10+ normals for no real reason for when they are “charged” when the elemental effect would be more than enough. Seems like a lot of work that is quite literally unneeded and will probably go unnoticed by most people. And that doesn’t begin to explain how F-Tilt1 would work without a shield and why they would change that at all.
The reason the shield is on the back is because Hero casts spells with his shield arm so he always stores his shield before starting the cast animation (happens on all spells).
Also another thing is that KS was quite literally named Kacrackle *Slash*, that’s the name that will appear in the menu, which implies it can only be done with a slash and it’s not a Kacrackle spell that can be stored.
This doesn’t mean it’s 100% impossible it’s a stored element, but I severely doubt it is.
Sorry to zing a thread so soon before it becomes obsolete but I had a random idea on how MP and the menu could work that I thought might be neat.
What if at the start of each stock you get a random spell list, but you keep that spell list until you run out of MP. At that point, you have to wait until your MP fully recharges like Robin's tomes, and your spell list gets reshuffled. If you can't get your MP down to exactly 0, I think it would be fine to let you over-spend, since I think Robin can over-spend with the thunder spells.
Sorry to zing a thread so soon before it becomes obsolete but I had a random idea on how MP and the menu could work that I thought might be neat.
What if at the start of each stock you get a random spell list, but you keep that spell list until you run out of MP. At that point, you have to wait until your MP fully recharges like Robin's tomes, and your spell list gets reshuffled. If you can't get your MP down to exactly 0, I think it would be fine to let you over-spend, since I think Robin can over-spend with the thunder spells.
Robin can overspend. I don't mind this as it causes you to adapt and maybe having 12 B moves if you get to cycle through would be op. I'm starting to think the
Up-B. Is swoosh
Side B is Zap
Neutral B is frizz
Down B keeps changing
Could be the case here. 2 projectiles and a decent recovery that can looks to be multihit and can edgeguard.
Odds are you will get a good variety of spells each stock this way. Mp could recover by time/damage given or taken similar to joker's rebellion gauge. Each stock refreshes your down B spell list.
Robin can overspend. I don't mind this as it causes you to adapt and maybe having 12 B moves if you get to cycle through would be op. I'm starting to think the
Up-B. Is swoosh
Side B is Zap
Neutral B is frizz
Down B keeps changing
Could be the case here. 2 projectiles and a decent recovery that can looks to be multihit and can edgeguard.
Odds are you will get a good variety of spells each stock this way. Mp could recover by time/damage given or taken similar to joker's rebellion gauge. Each stock refreshes your down B spell list.
That's my basic thought on it too, since it makes sense, but i also feel like sakurai might've done something weird again So i really dont know.
I also still think there might be a few more skills we havent seen, like another kind of slash.
Sorry to zing a thread so soon before it becomes obsolete but I had a random idea on how MP and the menu could work that I thought might be neat.
What if at the start of each stock you get a random spell list, but you keep that spell list until you run out of MP. At that point, you have to wait until your MP fully recharges like Robin's tomes, and your spell list gets reshuffled. If you can't get your MP down to exactly 0, I think it would be fine to let you over-spend, since I think Robin can over-spend with the thunder spells.
I do like that idea, actually, if something would be random. It'd make it that you'd have to adapt to what you got for the stock and make the best use of it. Adds variety and would be fun. And considering the amount of different spells, there'd be quite a bit of different sets.
That's my basic thought on it too, since it makes sense, but i also feel like sakurai might've done something weird again So i really dont know.
I also still think there might be a few more skills we havent seen, like another kind of slash.
I do like that idea, actually, if something would be random. It'd make it that you'd have to adapt to what you got for the stock and make the best use of it. Adds variety and would be fun. And considering the amount of different spells, there'd be quite a bit of different sets.
Just to clarify, by reshuffled I meant that you would (probably) get new spells once you ran out of MP. Though one spell list per stock wouldn't be to bad either.
Just to clarify, by reshuffled I meant that you would (probably) get new spells once you ran out of MP. Though one spell list per stock wouldn't be to bad either.
For all we know there'd be something that pop ups that shows which new spells you get while mp is recovering.
If up-b is always woosh spells then you'd always have that, and otherwise just be aware of if you got zoom or not, i guess. Who knows how it'll really work tho.
That's something I didn't think about. I was operating under the assumption that you could cancel the menu w/ shield, jump, or airdodge, and therefore could look at your spells with little commitment. Still, it would probably take a while for one to be able to memorize their spell list quickly enough to do it outside of respawn invincibility.
Each spell appears in a specific slot of down B. So sizzle can only be slot 1, so it wouldn't be entirely random? Idk trying to make it as simple and fluid as possible to work in a fast fighting game compared to a turn based RPG.
Sakurai loves Dragon Quest. So does the rest of the dev team. And so do almost all of Japan.
Do you honestly think he's gonna make a decision for their moveset that would be so unpopular that even several Dragon Quest fans who wanted to play as The Hero would decide against seriously playing as them? Several Smash players in Japan have wanted a Dragon Quest character in Smash for so long, and I just can't see the developers implementing them in such a way that would be so alienating and polarizing to them.
It would be the equivalent of finally putting, say, Cloud in Smash, and making his gimmick that he has hunt down randomly spawning Materia on the stage before he can use any special attacks at all. Most of the special moves the Materia give you would he super situational and not worth the effort of hunting them down mid fight. I think even a lot of Cloud / FF7 fans would be bewildered and put off by the mechanic, calling into question why the developers ever thought it was a fun idea.
So I don't find the idea of completely 100% RNG spells / skills realistic at all. Especially since, if this is part of Square Enix's strategy to get more Western players into Dragon Quest, it would be a bad decision given that they failed to account for how much Smash players loathe unwanted RNG (Judge and Vegetables are fine cuz it's a single move you can use or not use, compared to Brawl's tripping, so the former is wanted and the latter is unwanted). I just don't see them screwing up that badly.
I'm only partially wrong, so I won't eat my words after all. Still, it's rather unfortunate about the down special menu, but at least Woosh is a good recovery for those who don't want to count on RNG.
Edit: While not ideal, the fact that you can use the shield button to try for a different menu does make it more manageable than a few of us may have thought, so on that front this is okay.
It's also been confirmed that MP recharges 1 point at a time, and that you gain more MP back by attacking opponents.
There's still more?! Even if that is just a few more, it still makes his Down B crazier!
I imagine Sizz being like PK Fire or Arcfire or Holy Water like a lot of people are thinking, Bang being like Cloud's Finishing Touch and Whack...I dunno what that could do. Maybe it deals 100% damage on hit, but has stupid short range?
If that's actually different spells from boom and sizzle then that's crazy. I cant believe they made so many. Maybe they figured since it's random it wont be op, lol. Well actually there being so many might make it harder to get the spell you want, like the buffs, so i wonder how it'll go.
So i really dont know.
