Moveset Speculation and Discussion Thread

[alguidrag]

He is slow? He seems pretty fast in trailer[at least faster than 90%of characters that I play]

 

[theyellowflash26]

On the topic of Corrin's smashes (or "Dragon Fang Arm" attacks in general, even) having disjoints, I think it is certainly plausible that it could be disjointed considering that they have given disjoints to non-weapon hitboxes in the past, that is, Ganon's F-Smash in Brawl.

They have non weapon disjoint in this game too.

Sounds like it could totally work. I think the one question that would decide that though is if Corrin gets his hop even when using side-B midair. If not, he might miss and instead hit the side of the stage. You might also be able to ledge-cancel into jump-side-B...

At 1:42 in the video posted above, Corrin dodges Marth's neutral b with a jump air dodge and punishes with a side b. He doesn't hop tho. He just does the move.

EDIT:
I also noticed that in the actual trailer (1:44), Corrin counters forward smashes from Lucina and Roy, coming from opposite directions. Notice how both of them enter a laggy clashing animation after attempting to hit Corrin while in his counter stance. There could be two possibilities explaining this:
1. Roy and Lucina simply clashed with each other, while passing through Corrin.
2. Corrin's counter could cause a clashing animation on the attacker from certain moves, greatly increasing the usability of the counter. Notice how at 1/4 speed, Roy's blade actually stops first, and afterwards, Lucina's blade leaves first.

If you slow it down, you can see that Lucy and Roy clashed with each other.

 

[M@v]

Really looking forward to trying a Robin/Corrin team out and seeing how it goes.

 

[Pedker]

Really looking forward to trying a Robin/Corrin team out and seeing how it goes.

Pin with Corrin side-B --> cancel at the same time as Robin using Arcthunder --> Corrin grab out of Arcthunder --> Robin f-smash
muhahahahaha

 

[m0NtÉ]

On the subject of Corrin's counter, it looks a lot like the slow-time effect that accompanies Shulk's counter is present to allow it to reliably connect, and if his/her counter is ANYTHING like Shulk's in terms of kill power (especially since it has vertical KB) we are in for a treat.

 

[theyellowflash26]

I just thought about this. If moves don't touch Corrin, can we counter KO Punch? Oh boy I hope so.

 

[Smashifer]

Alright, I'm no ZSS main, but here's what I found:
conveniently, but pitifully, ZSS's walk speed should be about identical to Corrin's run speed. I went into to training mode to find out that ZSS can walk along Pac Man's final smash perfectly.

ZSS blaster, fully charged, stuns for ~1 second, regardless of percent, and has set knockback. Corrin's fully charged neutral-B appears to stun for ~1 1/4 seconds, but launches Ryu. Stun duration could potentially scale with percent.

Combine the slow run speed with the fast projectile speed, and I think it would be pretty hard to follow up, at least at max range. Mid-range seems more than easy to do, though. Perhaps neutral-B to side-B could be a thing?

Maybe he could've been slow-running (or is there a term for that?) to keep up the pace against PAC-MAN? Even then, he'd still be pretty slow when running at full speed, but you never know.

 

[Sonicninja115]

I like how you can attack in both directions out of side B.

 

[Pedker]

Maybe he could've been slow-running (or is there a term for that?) to keep up the pace against PAC-MAN? Even then, he'd still be pretty slow when running at full speed, but you never know.

That's definitely possible, but I don't have high hopes for that because his run speed is visible in multiple parts of the broadcast. A man can dream.

I like how you can attack in both directions out of side B.

it's nice, can cover rolls, but if the initial side-B is shielded, the direction of the kick won't matter much in terms of getting punished.

 

[Sonicninja115]

That's definitely possible, but I don't have high hopes for that because his run speed is visible in multiple parts of the broadcast. A man can dream.

it's nice, can cover rolls, but if the initial side-B is shielded, the direction of the kick won't matter much in terms of getting punished.

If you attack away it wouldn't be able to be punished.

I am talking about the second attack, the kick.

 

[Delzethin]

If that run speed research turns out to be true, that'll be really disappointing. I mean, I could understand Corrin's mobility being mediocre considering in Fates he starts out with below average speed with only decent growth, but...

I guess we can hope they tweaked his running speed for that last clip only, to make it funnier?

I just thought about this. If moves don't touch Corrin, can we counter KO Punch? Oh boy I hope so.

It depends. The explanation in the Direct left some room for interpretation. It could be a case of just nullifying more conventional attacks like the other FE characters' counters...but if it truly makes Corrin intangible like Vision does...

 

[Pedker]

If you attack away it wouldn't be able to be punished.

I am talking about the second attack, the kick.

Yeah, I was referring the the back-kick as well. It's possible to be safe, but we won't know for sure until February I guess

 

[Kanvas]

Probably everyone knows this by now, but I actually payed attention to the end of the smash direct presentation and saw what looks like corrin's down-air.

I think it will plummet you to your death unless you hit an opponent. There's also a visual ring at the start of it, so I assume it spikes, seemingly similar to toonlinks dair.

 

[Pedker]

Probably everyone knows this by now, but I actually payed attention to the end of the smash direct presentation and saw what looks like corrin's down-air.

I think it will plummet you to your death unless you hit an opponent. There's also a visual ring at the start of it, so I assume it spikes, seemingly similar to toonlinks dair.

Yes, it's been discussed earlier in the thread. We know that it's a plummet kick similar to Toon Link, ZSS etc, and that it's a multi-hit attack.

 

[Nu~]

Alright, I'm no ZSS main, but here's what I found:
conveniently, but pitifully, ZSS's walk speed should be about identical to Corrin's run speed. I went into to training mode to find out that ZSS can walk along Pac Man's final smash perfectly.

You have to remember that pacman can increase the speed of his final smash substantially by holding B.

Corrin may be outrunning the sped-up version

 

[alguidrag]

Probably Pacman9 is right(because would be weird Corrin be slow because his animation seems fast)

 

[Saki-]

If anyone would like to try and hop online sometime tonight with me to compare running speeds with accelerated Pac Man ult that'd be great. Or if anyone has easy access to someone who could help offline that would be even better.

Alternatively someone who is nifty with video editing can give us a frame by frame idea of what the speed may be.

 

[LevinViolin]

After testing it on my own I found Pac Man's accelerated Final Smash to be approximately the same speed as Sheik's run.
I can't be totally sure, but they seemed relatively close to each other speed-wise. If anyone could confirm this, it would be much appreciated.

 

[theyellowflash26]

I never even knew Pacman's FS could be sped up. That's an interesting factor. I hope it means Corrin is gonna be pretty fast.

On a different subject, I was thinking about how Corrin's up b made it from the second line on the right side to the top platform of Suzaku Castle, so I decided to try different up bs to compare. Corrin's recovery should be pretty decent based on what I'm seeing. Corrin's up b from the trailer makes it to the right side of the top platform. Fox can make it to the middle, Lucario (no aura) can make it to the left side, and Falco doesn't make it at all. So in that range, it looks like Corrin is between Fox and Falco in terms of distance, at least diagonally.

 

[Patriot Duck]

After testing it on my own I found Pac Man's accelerated Final Smash to be approximately the same speed as Sheik's run.
I can't be totally sure, but they seemed relatively close to each other speed-wise. If anyone could confirm this, it would be much appreciated.

I went and tested this myself and got consistent results.

However, I would not take this scene from the trailer as absolute truth. Pac Man usually smiles when he runs, but in the trailer he had that :o expression. My point being that if Sakurai edited Pac Man's facial expression specifically for that scene, he might have done the same for Corrin's dash speed, and it may be completely different during actual gameplay.

Edit: Let's assume for a moment that the Pac Man scene was 100% accurate to Corrin's movement speed. Was Pac Man's final smash the accelerated version or not? I cannot for the life of me tell which one it is.

 

[ARGHETH]

Was Pac Man's final smash the accelerated version or not? I cannot for the life of me tell which one it is.

I don't know exactly, but by eyeballing it, I'd say it's the accelerated version.

 

[Cherpumple]

Any speculation on how the bite of the neutral B works? I'm thinking it's either activated by pressing the B button again after the projectile hits or it could activate automatically when an opponent is within range. Thoughts?

 

[Patriot Duck]

Any speculation on how the bite of the neutral B works? I'm thinking it's either activated by pressing the B button again after the projectile hits or it could activate automatically when an opponent is within range. Thoughts?

In the presentation Sakurai stated that both the projectile and bite attack could be charged, so it can't be automatic. You probably press and hold B after firing the projectile to begin charging the bite.

 

[Cherpumple]

In the presentation Sakurai stated that both the projectile and bite attack could be charged, so it can't be automatic. You probably press and hold B after firing the projectile to begin charging the bite.

Thanks for pointing that out. I didn't realize the bite could be charged, guess I missed that part in the presentation. So if someone is close enough, you can make the decision to either charge the bite or do a different attack, given the cooldown isn't too long. Loving all the options that Corrin has!

 

[Delzethin]

Thanks for pointing that out. I didn't realize the bite could be charged, guess I missed that part in the presentation. So if someone is close enough, you can make the decision to either charge the bite or do a different attack, given the cooldown isn't too long. Loving all the options that Corrin has!

Considering Corrin's fsmash has a tipper, you'd probably be better off charging the bite if you land the shot at close range. At midrange, though...I wonder if the stun would last long enough to land a tipped fsmash?

 

[Cherpumple]

Considering Corrin's fsmash has a tipper, you'd probably be better off charging the bite if you land the shot at close range. At midrange, though...I wonder if the stun would last long enough to land a tipped fsmash?

I was thinking the same thing. With the right range, F-Smash could be an extremely good option. Don't know the details on cooldown though.

And for close up, I was thinking that maybe combos such as D-tilt in to U-tilt may deal more damage when the opponent is at a lower percent. Though the presentation said the bite deals a lot of damage so it may be the better option all round.

 

[young grasshopper]

I was thinking the same thing. With the right range, F-Smash could be an extremely good option. Don't know the details on cooldown though.

And for close up, I was thinking that maybe combos such as D-tilt in to U-tilt may deal more damage when the opponent is at a lower percent. Though the presentation said the bite deals a lot of damage so it may be the better option all round.

something to remember is that Sakurai said the bite has good KO power. If the enemy isn't at KO percent, than it would be better to use a different option to that you don't stale your killing moves

 

[Planty]

I tried to test out Pac-Man's final smash on Kalos to see his total time to go from one end to the other in both his slow version and fast version and then compare that to the direct to see which speed Pac-Man is using there. It's tough to tell, TBH. However I feel as if the slow version was closer to what was shown in the direct. If anyone else could try this out, that'd be cool.

 

[Delzethin]

I tried to test out Pac-Man's final smash on Kalos to see his total time to go from one end to the other in both his slow version and fast version and then compare that to the direct to see which speed Pac-Man is using there. It's tough to tell, TBH. However I feel as if the slow version was closer to what was shown in the direct. If anyone else could try this out, that'd be cool.

We'd probably be better off using a different clip of Corrin running as a reference, at this point...

 

[Patriot Duck]

We'd probably be better off using a different clip of Corrin running as a reference, at this point...

Good idea. Check this out.

Pay attention to Coliseum's tiles. At about 6:52, male Corrin dashes across a distance exactly five tiles long. It might be tricky, but if we can find characters that dash along those tiles in a similar amount of time, we may get a good idea of Corrin's dash speed.

 

[young grasshopper]

Good idea. Check this out.

Pay attention to Coliseum's tiles. At about 6:52, male Corrin dashes across a distance exactly five tiles long. It might be tricky, but if we can find characters that dash along those tiles in a similar amount of time, we may get a good idea of Corrin's dash speed.

Looks to me like that's only showing his initial dash, but then again, we'll want to know that, too!

 

[Kodystri]

Probably not the right place to ask, but any idea on Corrin's frame data or do we have it somewhere?

 

[LevinViolin]

Probably not the right place to ask, but any idea on Corrin's frame data or do we have it somewhere?

As far as I know, no one has tried to speculate Corrin's frame data for his whole moveset.

 

[Planty]

Probably not the right place to ask, but any idea on Corrin's frame data or do we have it somewhere?

I do believe that the video is only at 30fps. Counting frames would just be pointless.

 

[NachoOfCheese]

I do believe that the video is only at 30fps. Counting frames would just be pointless.

Someone did it for Lucas when he was announced and it was accurate down to like 1-2 frames. Wouldn't say it's pointless.

 

[Notshane]

Hold up, hold up. Pac-Man's final smash...can be sped up?

Forget Corrin, I am trying out Pac-Man right now!

..And, of course, will come back later to discuss more about Corrin so that I did not impose for this one reason.

 

[Kodystri]

Looking from the trailer, this is what I am witnessing and speculating

Marth and Lucina's Fair and Bair is great for edgeguard, and Corrin has a similar, yet different Fair. Corrin's Bair looks also another great edgeguarding potential.

Turning into a dragon in throws, Corrin must have a kill throw somewhere. Again, this is Sakurai, so who knows what will happen. She should have a kill throw somewhere.

Speaking of Kill Moves, it is unfortunately only looking like Smash attacks, one of her throws, and Neutral B(And I guess Counter Surge?) . Bair may be potentially a storng kill move as well.

Corrin's recovery seems pretty good compared to other Fire Emblem characters. Probably the most vulnerable to spikes after Robin.

So if my predictions are correct, Corrin can move around and pressure the opponent, but probably lacks killing options.

 

[Deleted member]

I took some time to analyze the video frame by frame yesterday and I came up with a frame data sheet.

 

[Yikarur]

Thanks for your work!
Some things:
I'm sure the FAF for Fsmash is not that low. And I don't think the FAF differs that much if you angle it.

It would be nice if you could get the landing lag on aerials as well because this is important. I know for sure that in the footage there is one instance where Corrin lands with her bair. Fair landing lag should be on the fair -> ftilt scene.

 

[Saki-]

I took some time to analyse the video frame by frame yesterday and I came up with a frame data sheet.

Tag Kodystri

Though I wonder if GIMR has plans on breaking both this and Bayonetta's down like he did with Cloud.