Moveset Speculation and Discussion Thread

[Deleted member]

Mewtwo's Confusion doesn't really air "stall" it really just gives him a bit more distance for his recovery horizontally if that is what you're meaning. (A true stall would be Fox's shine stall).

In regards to providing extra horizontal distance in a way similar to Mewtwo's Confusion, I think it is certainly plausible considering that Kamui hops before performing the actual lunge. It really will depend on how much endlag there is after the lunge though, since that will determine if the lift from the initial hop is actually useful without putting Kamui in a potentially bad position vertically.

 

[Odd_0ne]

Is it true that corrien has tippers? Cause if he does then my marth training has paid off

 

[theyellowflash26]

Is it true that corrien has tippers? Cause if he does then my marth training has paid off

Only on f smash that we know of.

 

[Odd_0ne]

Only on f smash that we know of.

Well its the only tipper smash i get anyway so even if corrien ony get tips on his fsmash then im happy ethier way.

 

[Delzethin]

Possibly, although since it seems to have a fairly generous hitbox, I suspect people will still be caught in it regardless, although I suspect like Shulk's counter, it'll be fairly useless in the air due to the bit of delay before it hits.

Actually, I bet due to how huge its range is it could be really nasty as a runoff counter against linear recoveries, like how Ryo often uses Ike's counter. We don't know how the damage is calculated, though, and since its knockback is vertical it won't gimp the way Ike's does. Instead, it'll be a kill option if the opponent has enough damage on them.

 

[Helioxx]

So, about Corrin's possible neutral. Side B can pin in the ground, right? So, depending on whether Corrin can act immediately after pinning the ground with side B, and whether hitting shield can cancel the pin effects, this might be an incredibly safe move on shield. Due to the reach, it might even be an approach option.

Basically, if the move still pins after hitting shield(assuming that it does not penetrate shield or act as a command grab) and Corrin doesn't have a set time to remain pinned, then Corrin might be able to throw it out, hit shield, and then use whatever amount of shield stun the move has to instantly retreat or crossup with one of the cancel options. Maybe even do so fast enough to escape a perfect shield punish, if you space it.

This might not be how the move works at all, but if it does, it would be super insane in neutral, among the safest close range moves. the fact that Corrin can move out of it at all might help to avoid punishes even if you completely whiff the move. This all seriously depends on how rapidly Corrin can act out of the move when it pins, though. Also, as a special, you could use it out of dashes or when too close to the ground to use an aerial for mixups or useful movement options.

Also, based on the angle of the lance and the visual effect during the move, I think that Side B might have a tipper spike in the air.
'S all speculation, though

 

[Zionaze]

Im still quite positive on side-b being a command grab. And if it is. We can mix up sh fair with side-b because of the little hop he does

 

[Raziek]

Im still quite positive on side-b being a command grab. And if it is. We can mix up sh fair with side-b because of the little hop he does

I am like 99% certain that from a game design perspective that move should not be a command grab.

Actually, I can prove it. If it was a command grab it would not have triggered Greninja's counter at 1:33 in the original trailer (in the OP).

Something else has been bothering me though....

What is this move?

I originally thought it was a D-Smash or F-Smash, but we have seen both of those. (pictured below)

You can very clearly hear the 'smash charge' sound before Corrinne lets it go, so what the heck is it?

Edit: Nevermind, I'm a goober, I totally didn't even realize she's holding a Beam Sword. ALL MAKES SENSE NOW.

 

[Chapter Serf]

I am like 99% certain that from a game design perspective that move should not be a command grab.

Actually, I can prove it. If it was a command grab it would not have triggered Greninja's counter at 1:33 in the original trailer (in the OP).

Something else has been bothering me though....

What is this move?

I originally thought it was a D-Smash or F-Smash, but we have seen both of those. (pictured below)

You can very clearly hear the 'smash charge' sound before Corrinne lets it go, so what the heck is it?

Edit: Nevermind, I'm a goober, I totally didn't even realize she's holding a Beam Sword. ALL MAKES SENSE NOW.

That's what happens when you play too much competitive. You forget that items do in fact actually exist.

 

[Zionaze]

Dang i still wish it was thoo :^)

 

[Fire Tactician]

That's what happens when you play too much competitive. You forget that items do in fact actually exist.

It's funny because ZeRo makes the exact same mistake in his reaction video (he says something like "another Smash attack?"). It's probably exactly what you just said about pros forgetting about items

 

[False Sense]

I am like 99% certain that from a game design perspective that move should not be a command grab.

Actually, I can prove it. If it was a command grab it would not have triggered Greninja's counter at 1:33 in the original trailer (in the OP).

Something else has been bothering me though....

What is this move?

I originally thought it was a D-Smash or F-Smash, but we have seen both of those. (pictured below)

You can very clearly hear the 'smash charge' sound before Corrinne lets it go, so what the heck is it?

Edit: Nevermind, I'm a goober, I totally didn't even realize she's holding a Beam Sword. ALL MAKES SENSE NOW.

Actually, Raziek...

I think that was Shadow Sneak, not Substitute.

 

[Delzethin]

Actually, Raziek...

I think that was Shadow Sneak, not Substitute.

Yeah, that was Shadow Sneak. Greninja just appeared a safe distance away without attacking, and there wasn't a doll or log that showed up in his place.

 

[Zionaze]

The dream continues :V

 

[ARGHETH]

Actually, Raziek...

I think that was Shadow Sneak, not Substitute.

It was, the log wasn't present and he did the attack animation for Shadow Sneak (the flip thing), not Substitute.

 

[LevinViolin]

I think it's safe to say Dragon Lunge is definitely Corrin's most interesting move.
What I'm interested in most are two things surrounding it.
What happens when this attack connects on an aerial opponent? I can't imagine that this will work the same way as monkey flip despite the similarity between the two moves. Dragon Lunge seems to imply that you can't mash out of it due to the target character's lack of animation(can you mash out of Diddy's side special? I always assumed you could). In the trailer (and part of the direct after the trailer) the only time Corrin pinned something his dragon fang/lance arm is stuck in the ground, even if only slightly. It's possible that this move may just have generic knockback if you land it in the air. Given the amount of time the opponent is held in place I don't think it's likely that you can pin people in mid-air. Maybe this is really obvious and you guys already thought about that.

Second, how does this move work with jumps? Is it possible to jump > Dragon Lunge > jump out > double jump? It's probably too early to say, but I think this move is going to be used the most for mixups when getting back to the stage. Corrin's recovery didn't look too great to me, and might rely on using back air and side special properly to recover. Using Dragon Lunge low and jumping out of it could make corrin's ledgeplay on walled stages really interesting. This is reliant on him being able to stick to walls though, which we obviously don't know yet.

It's all very interesting and I'm definitely looking forward to messing around with Corrin after they're released.

 

[Zionaze]

Looking at the trailer and testing it with ryus stage comparison. It looks like its faster than roys grounded up but the height is similar to Marths.

Also my question for dragon lunge is. Inorder to pin the opponent, does it need to hit both opponent AND the ground? If it doesn't I really am expecting it to act like monkey flip where you pin them midair but slowly fall. Choose the jump option to spike them or front kick them to finish them off. Or your opponent mashes like crazy and falls out quicker. Idk all speculation atm

 

[LevinViolin]

Looking at the trailer and testing it with ryus stage comparison. It looks like its faster than roys grounded up but the height is similar to Marths.

That's not too bad then.

Also my question for dragon lunge is. Inorder to pin the opponent, does it need to hit both opponent AND the ground? If it doesn't I really am expecting it to act like monkey flip where you pin them midair but slowly fall. Choose the jump option to spike them or front kick them to finish them off. Or your opponent mashes like crazy and falls out quicker. Idk all speculation atm

The direct specifically mentioned that "if you can stick your weapon in the ground successfully you can remain hanging." It moves on to mention that you can "even pin your foe in place" which leads me to believe that pinning your foe is indeed reliant on having Dragon Lunge hit the ground.

 

[Zionaze]

Seems like smaller opponents like olimar or Pikachu will be harder to pin down then. Its range is pretty big though

 

[m0NtÉ]

Did anyone else notice how much the pinned Mario's animation resembled crumple (what Ryu's focus attack inflicts)? Because if so, it will have a set response time, as opposed to being entirely mash-to-escape.

 

[Saki-]

Thanks to the help of this thread and other sources we've got the speculated moveset down. Here is an Organized list.

Spoiler: Corrin Moveset

Jabs and Tilts:

Jab

Rapid Jab

Utilt

Ftilt

Dtilt

Dash Attack

Throws and Pummel:

Pummel

Upthrow

Forward Throw

Back Throw

Down Throw

Aerials:

Nair

Uair

Fair

Bair

Dair

Specials:

Neutral Special

Up Special

Side Special

Down Special

Smashes:

Up Smash

Forward Smash

Down Smash

Big thanks to the community we've got going so far and BeeMil for providing the gifs not posted here.

 

[LozNerd]

I think your missing Bair.

 

[Saki-]

Woops, that's embarrassing. Fixed! Ty for picking that up

 

[Deleted member]

Thanks to the help of this thread and other sources we've got the speculated moveset down. Here is an Organized list.

Spoiler: Corrin Moveset

Jabs and Tilts:

Jab

Rapid Jab

Utilt

Ftilt

Dtilt

Dash Attack

Aerials:

Nair

Uair

Fair

Dair

Specials:

Neutral Special

Up Special

Side Special

Down Special

Smashes:

Up Smash

Forward Smash

Down Smash

Big thanks to the community we've got going so far and BeeMil for providing the gifs not posted here.

GIFs of Corrin's pummel and throws can be found at the link below, since you don't have those added yet (as well as GIFs of everything else, so this is a nice external reference):

Gifs of all of Corrin's moves, all in one convenient place

Credit goes to Maraphy for providing the link ^


The D-Throw GIF located there may be a bit short, so you can also use the one I made which shows what Kamui can possibly do after it/shows more of its trajectory:

 

[Saki-]

Will do, thank you.

 

[Benoas]

So corrins throws look pretty lacklustre tbh, do you think any of them might be good combo or kill throws?

 

[Cr0n]

So corrins throws look pretty lacklustre tbh, do you think any of them might be good combo or kill throws?

Well if you count his sideb as being its own set of throws (not sure if it is or not) than there is a good chance at least a few of them combo into something / are good kill throws.

 

[Delzethin]

So corrins throws look pretty lacklustre tbh, do you think any of them might be good combo or kill throws?

His uthrow involves shifting completely into dragon form and flinging his opponent skyward. I'm willing to bet it ends up being a decent kill throw.

 

[Maraphy]

I just noticed his D-throw has nearly the same animation as Counter Surge lol

I'm guessing the throws that involve totally transforming into a dragon will do more damage maybe? It'd make sense since he's more powerful in dragon form

 

[Pedker]

Alright! after reading every single post in this thread, I'm ready to put in my two (or million) cents:

I've been taking a look at scenes during the explanation of the "Lost in Thoughts, All Alone" music, where it was easy to not notice the fact that Corrin gameplay was playing in the background.
Here's the entire broadcast (should be bookmarked at the indicated section, 6:47)

First thing to notice is at 7:04, where we get to see a FULLY charged neutral-B. It appears to charge fully in ~1/2 of a second, travel twice as fast as a fully charged ZSS blaster shot, and stuns Ryu for what seems like more than enough time to follow up. Also, the hitbox looks huge! I smell a neutral game, baby!

Next big thing to notice is at 6:58 where on the left side, the male Corrin uses a forward-kick out of side-B, which apparently seems to autocancel. Does this perhaps imply that the kick out of side-B can ledge cancel, or is it only because he falls down from the platform? Could this potentially lead to gimmicky but awesome combos?
Also, something about side-B that makes me curious is: what happens if you spot-dodge Corrin's side-B? After the spot dodge animation, will the character be pushed away due to unit collision?

Last thing that I think is extremely important yet not discussed enough here is whether or not Corrin's dragon-lance attacks will be disjointed. On one end, mentioned earlier, Corrin appears to be invulnerable to Roy's counter. On the other hand, the lances are still technically part of his body, so would a disjoin not make sense?
I feel like this question is extremely important, because if the moves aren't disjointed, then a potential counter to f-smash could be short hopping over it into Dair.

I am so ready for Corrin. Discuss!..?

EDIT:
I also noticed that in the actual trailer (1:44), Corrin counters forward smashes from Lucina and Roy, coming from opposite directions. Notice how both of them enter a laggy clashing animation after attempting to hit Corrin while in his counter stance. There could be two possibilities explaining this:
1. Roy and Lucina simply clashed with each other, while passing through Corrin.
2. Corrin's counter could cause a clashing animation on the attacker from certain moves, greatly increasing the usability of the counter. Notice how at 1/4 speed, Roy's blade actually stops first, and afterwards, Lucina's blade leaves first.

 

[Cr0n]

Last thing that I think is extremely important yet not discussed enough here is whether or not Corrin's dragon-lance attacks will be disjointed.

If you look back in the thread we actually discussed this pretty well. What seemed to be the consensus is that dragon lance (you're talking about his fsmash right?) is a disjoint. People have also speculated that his wings on bair will also be a disjoint based on how one of charzard's moves is a disjoint.

 

[Pedker]

If you look back in the thread we actually discussed this pretty well. What seemed to be the consensus is that dragon lance (you're talking about his fsmash right?) is a disjoint. People have also speculated that his wings on bair will also be a disjoint based on how one of charzard's moves is a disjoint.

I must have missed it, I only saw it mentioned once or twice. Thanks!

 

[Deleted member]

On the topic of Corrin's smashes (or "Dragon Fang Arm" attacks in general, even) having disjoints, I think it is certainly plausible that it could be disjointed considering that they have given disjoints to non-weapon hitboxes in the past, that is, Ganon's F-Smash in Brawl.

 

[AstroCRiS]

And the final piece of evidence? Right at the very beginning of the clip in the trailer proper, you can hear the "cocking" sound of a smash attack beginning to charge.

Yikes.

I noticed every time he turns into the dragon form that high pitch sound comes on, so that doesn't mean it and Fsmash

 

[Cr0n]

First thing to notice is at 7:04, where we get to see a FULLY charged neutral-B. It appears to charge fully in ~1/2 of a second, travel twice as fast as a fully charged ZSS blaster shot, and stuns Ryu for what seems like more than enough time to follow up. Also, the hitbox looks huge! I smell a neutral game, baby!

While we are on the subject of his neutral b, do you think someone who is familiar with ZSS could compare the stun duration between Corrin and ZSS?

 

[Pedker]

While we are on the subject of his neutral b, do you think someone who is familiar with ZSS could compare the stun duration between Corrin and ZSS?

Alright, I'm no ZSS main, but here's what I found:
conveniently, but pitifully, ZSS's walk speed should be about identical to Corrin's run speed. I went into to training mode to find out that ZSS can walk along Pac Man's final smash perfectly.

ZSS blaster, fully charged, stuns for ~1 second, regardless of percent, and has set knockback. Corrin's fully charged neutral-B appears to stun for ~1 1/4 seconds, but launches Ryu. Stun duration could potentially scale with percent.

Combine the slow run speed with the fast projectile speed, and I think it would be pretty hard to follow up, at least at max range. Mid-range seems more than easy to do, though. Perhaps neutral-B to side-B could be a thing?

 

[teddystalin]

If ZSS really does walk as fast as Corrin runs, that would make Corrin the 47th fastest runner in the game, slower than Ike or Luigi, for instance. Definitely one of the first big disappointments in terms of their future viability. Still, it looks as though his/her initial dash speed is decent from the tiny sample of gameplay we got in the music section of the direct. Corrin was next to Link (the current 47th fastest runner) but seemed to be moving not insignificantly faster.

 

[PGP]

Alright, I'm no ZSS main, but here's what I found:
conveniently, but pitifully, ZSS's walk speed should be about identical to Corrin's run speed. I went into to training mode to find out that ZSS can walk along Pac Man's final smash perfectly
ZSS blaster, fully charged, stuns for ~1 second, regardless of percent, and has set knockback. Corrin's fully charged neutral-B appears to stun for ~1 1/4 seconds, but launches Ryu. Stun duration could potentially scale with percent.

Combine the slow run speed with the fast projectile speed, and I think it would be pretty hard to follow up, at least at max range. Mid-range seems more than easy to do, though. Perhaps neutral-B to side-B could be a thing?

EDIT: whoops, someone beat me to it before I refreshed

If what you're saying about Corrin's run speed is true, then he'll have around the 47th fastest run speed in the game, faster than Link's but slower than Peach's. Hopefully he'll have a good foxtrot like other FE characters and, from what I can tell, his roll looks extremely fast and long.

 

[Merfect]

Just posted this in the Discord group, but I'll post it here too. So, Kamui has a Multi Jab. Which means he/she can do the ledge cancel:
https://youtu.be/GzhuS8K18Yo
Multi Jab -> Side B potentially?

 

[Pedker]

EDIT: whoops, someone beat me to it before I refreshed

If what you're saying about Corrin's run speed is true, then he'll have around the 47th fastest run speed in the game, faster than Link's but slower than Peach's. Hopefully he'll have a good foxtrot like other FE characters and, from what I can tell, his roll looks extremely fast and long.

I have a feeling that his run speed won't be as much of an issue as it appears to be, since he already has some cool mobility and utility options with things such as b-air and side-B. Imagine a wavebounce side-B dude lol

Just posted this in the Discord group, but I'll post it here too. So, Kamui has a Multi Jab. Which means he can do the ledge cancel:
https://youtu.be/GzhuS8K18Yo
Multi Jab -> Side B potentially?

Sounds like it could totally work. I think the one question that would decide that though is if Corrin gets his hop even when using side-B midair. If not, he might miss and instead hit the side of the stage. You might also be able to ledge-cancel into jump-side-B...