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Moveset Speculation and Discussion Thread

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False Sense

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I didn't see it mentioned here, but I'm pretty sure Dair is a human dive kick, unless my eyes are bad.
Something like that. Corrin transforms his/her legs into spears/drills and dives straight down. Looks like it might have a multi-hit property to it.
 
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Mr. Johan

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Hmm



WFT goes back to a standard fall pose for a frame or two just before the DF stabs him. And you only need two frames to activate an airdodge.

If the hitstun isn't long enough, characters could airdodge just before the big DF hit. That could be a problem.

Fortunately, Corrin has manual control of his smash charge, so he can end it whenever he wants and stab them before they react. Also, given the low lag on Fsmash, Corrin could get back to neutral faster than some characters can get out of the inevitable landing lag from airdodging it, so he can go right back on the offensive.
 

ajch22

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Well, looking at this... Yeah, I can't really think of any other explanation. It's not a grab; there's no indication of it and Wii Fit Trainer appears to just be returning to a neutral stance. We already know his tilts and specials, so it's none of those. And the animation at the end is the exact animation of Corrin's F-Smash.

Unless there's some crucial piece we're missing here... Looks like we've got the first Smash attack with a hitbox on its charge.

Doesn't Ness have that same attribute when charging his down smash? IIRC Ness' yoyo hits you while charging, but even the way Corrin sets you in place is much different.

I do believe that his chainsaw sword hitting you while charging is some sort of compensation, this is just a huge speculation, but just like Marth, I think Corrin's Smash attacks are probably really bad at close range, so instead of being used as a killing move, his forward smash might serve to stack up damage when up close.
 
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Spiralviper

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I might be crazy, but it looks like (s)he has a multi-hit divekick. It probably doesn't spike or meteor, though. Depending on it's priority and endlag in the air, it could be a pretty safe falling aerial.
 
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Chapter Serf

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Hmm



WFT goes back to a standard fall pose for a frame or two just before the DF stabs him. And you only need two frames to activate an airdodge.

If the hitstun isn't long enough, characters could airdodge just before the big DF hit. That could be a problem.

Fortunately, Corrin has manual control of his smash charge, so he can end it whenever he wants and stab them before they react. Also, given the low lag on Fsmash, Corrin could get back to neutral faster than some characters can get out of the inevitable landing lag from airdodging it, so he can go right back on the offensive.
It looks the hitbox on the FSmash charge has a pushback, similar to Robin's Wind Jab. WFT is moving backwards a bit, look at the house behind him. I'm going to guess that if you hold it too long, you end up juggling the target out. Right now, I'm going to guess that the attack was held too long and actually pushed WFT out of the hitbox in the frame before the charge was let go and the attack actually fired. I suppose that's a fair balance. Hold it too long and someone like ZeRo would just air dodge the smash attack.
 
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PGP

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If I recall correctly, at one point during the Corrin showcase they references how Corrin was able to "perform attacks that no other character could do" (due to him having dragon blood in his veins or something like that). I assumed originally that this was referring to his aesthetics or specific attacks he had, although now I'm thinking that this was referring to the hitbox while f-smash is charging.
 

young grasshopper

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If I recall correctly, at one point during the Corrin showcase they references how Corrin was able to "perform attacks that no other character could do" (due to him having dragon blood in his veins or something like that). I assumed originally that this was referring to his aesthetics or specific attacks he had, although now I'm thinking that this was referring to the hitbox while f-smash is charging.
except ness has a hitbox while charging his yo-yo smashes
 

Delzethin

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Probably the reason it's strongest at the tip. If it had highest KB at the core of the move it'd be so dumb lol
It seems like Corrin's fsmash will have two different uses. Charge it at close range to catch people with the Yato first and rack up damage in a self-contained combo, but use it from a distance and it's a powerful zoning tool with unmatched range.

I do believe that his chainsaw sword hitting you while charging is some sort of compensation, this is just a huge speculation, but just like Marth, I think Corrin's Smash attacks are probably really bad at close range, so instead of being used as a killing move, his forward smash might serve to stack up damage when up close.
...And I see I wasn't the only one who thought of that.

I didn't see it mentioned here, but I'm pretty sure Dair is a human dive kick, unless my eyes are bad.
Something like that. Corrin transforms his/her legs into spears/drills and dives straight down. Looks like it might have a multi-hit property to it.
I was actually going to mention that last night, but I got sidetracked by everything else I was doing, haha. If I'm thinking about it right, doesn't having a divekick dair mean Corrin will be harder to juggle?
 
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Spiralviper

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So what is everyone's opinion on his/her back air?
We don't know it's kill power, but it looks fairly quick, and has little endlag. If I remember correctly, it didn't have much landing lag, either. He basically has my dream B-air.

I probably should watch the trailer again and make some kind of analysis. Possibly measuring the startup/endlag/landing lag of the moves that show it. No promises though. :)
 
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theyellowflash26

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except ness has a hitbox while charging his yo-yo smashes
No he doesn't. At least not in smash 4. idk about other games.

I was actually going to mention that last night, but I got sidetracked by everything else I was doing, haha. If I'm thinking about it right, doesn't having a divekick dair mean Corrin will be harder to juggle?
Hopefully.

So what is everyone's opinion on his/her back air?
It looks great. I'm hoping it'll be a good spacing/ neutral tool. Also its recovery use is interesting.
 

Yikarur

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I absoluteley love this character.
I've watchd the trailer 100000 times already.
I hope the bair is disjointed (would be pretty weird if now), the range is absurd and the momentum bonus is super interesting.
Does upB go into free fall? it didnt look too obvious for me in the presentation.
 

Mr. Johan

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Corrin didn't flash during the fall after Dragon Ascent in the trailer analysis, so maybe he can act out of it after all.

My guess is that his dragon attacks like Fsmash and Bair will not be disjointed. They're large and have little lag to them, so being able to trade with them would be a fair trade-off.
 

Delzethin

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Corrin didn't flash during the fall after Dragon Ascent in the trailer analysis, so maybe he can act out of it after all.

My guess is that his dragon attacks like Fsmash and Bair will not be disjointed. They're large and have little lag to them, so being able to trade with them would be a fair trade-off.
I could see the lance-like attacks having limited to no disjoint, but the bair probably will be if the disjoint on Charizard's wing attacks is any precedent.
 

Chapter Serf

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Sorry for the scrub question, but what's disjoint?
 
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Sorry for the scrub question, but what's disjoint?
Basically, a disjointed hitbox is one where, if it collides with some other hitbox or something else that would cause damage, the character using the disjointed hitbox won't take damage, it is essentially a hitbox that isn't simultaneously a hurtbox.

Any sword character such as Marth or Ike has disjointed hitboxes with their sword moves, that is if their sword collides with another hitbox they won't take damage during the trade if there isn't a clank unless the challenging hitbox actually has the reach to go past their disjoint to their bodily hurtbox.

Or alternatively read the following:

http://supersmashbros.wikia.com/wiki/Hitbox

Scroll down to the section on Disjointed Hitboxes.

----------------------------------------

Also, I know we didn't see too much of it in the trailer, but I"m fairly confident that Kamui's U-Air is a multi-hit.
 
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Patriot Duck

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I noticed that jumping and canceling Corrin's Dragon Lunge puts the opponent on the ground. If Corrin has any moves that can jab reset, that might actually be broken, depending on how fast Corrin can act after canceling it.

I'm seriously considering picking up this character. A water dragon with a chainsaw sword is just too much for me to not play him/her.
 
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Irving

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Hi new to smashboards and figure this would be a good place to start contributing.

The trailer and the moves breakdown seemed to mostly show corrin's neutral B on close up opponents. But there is one scene where it shows a fully charged blast hit ryu from halfway across castle siege. Would that be enough distance for it to be used to keep away and pressure opponents?
 

Odd_0ne

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Why must she be released in feb. I cant wait that long :[
Overall, I hope kamui can jab reset after canceling dragon lunge and use it on the side of the stage
 

Maraphy

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A water dragon with a chainsaw sword is just too much for me to not play him/her.
That's not water..... it's salty fans' tears..

But yeah it would be really sweet if they could Dragon Lunge onto the sides of the stage, for no actual reason other than just to chill there for a little while.
 
D

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What was that attack when his sword was shredding WFT before Fsmash?
It is currently believed that Kamui will actually have a hitbox manifested in the Omega Yato while she is charging her F-Smash, similar to how Ness's Yoyo can deal damage while he is charging D-Smash.

This topic has already been discussed to an extent near the top of this page and near the end of the preceding page, please refer to that discussion.
 
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Fire Tactician

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It looks the hitbox on the FSmash charge has a pushback, similar to Robin's Wind Jab. WFT is moving backwards a bit, look at the house behind him. I'm going to guess that if you hold it too long, you end up juggling the target out. Right now, I'm going to guess that the attack was held too long and actually pushed WFT out of the hitbox in the frame before the charge was let go and the attack actually fired. I suppose that's a fair balance. Hold it too long and someone like ZeRo would just air dodge the smash attack.
Are we sure that this move isn't his forward throw? At a glance, it reminds me of Jigglypuff's down throw where she incorporates an attack into her throw. Instead of just throwing the opponent, what if Corrin attacked as the throw (or maybe that's the pummel?) and pushed the enemy away with his Dragon Fang?

Edit: Hadn't seen one of the posts on the other page that explains why this shouldn't be a throw until after posting this... there goes that idea.
 
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Mr. Johan

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We've seen Corrin throw Falcon with a Dragon Fang thrust during the in-depth analysis segment of the direct. It was forward facing, and Falcon was sent in a forward direction. That has to be Fthrow.
 

Delzethin

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Meanwhile, a couple more things that haven't been brought up. Lemme use this video for reference--it combines both parts of Corrin's section in the Direct:


At 3:54, we get a glimpse of Corrin's nair: a wild spiraling swing with both the Yato and his shifted left arm. This looks like it could be a longer lasting "get off me" nair that drags opponents with him, in the realm of Zelda or Lucas. That's...not very typical for a character with so many disjoints, and if it's fast it'll give him a way to alleviate aerial pressure that a lot of similar characters don't have.

A ways earlier, at 1:15, Corrin uses his uthrow...notable in that he fully transforms and flings his opponent skyward. I'm willing to bet that'll be a kill throw of some effectiveness.
 

Pherae77

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Their dtilt looked like it functioned a lot like Roy's from Melee. If it turns out to be as good a combo tool as it looks, I can't see myself not playing this character. Roy's dtilt is the move I miss the most from Melee.
 
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Spiralviper

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Corrin didn't flash during the fall after Dragon Ascent in the trailer analysis, so maybe he can act out of it after all
Well, in Greninja's trailer, they showed him in free-fall after his up-B, but he wasn't flashing. They probably just turn it off for effect.

We could get a better idea of whether Corrin goes into free-fall or not by comparing the animation to his regular fall animation.
 
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Fire Tactician

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A ways earlier, at 1:15, Corrin uses his uthrow...notable in that he fully transforms and flings his opponent skyward. I'm willing to bet that'll be a kill throw of some effectiveness.
I wonder if it'll also leave him with a bigger hurtbox during the throw... which shouldn't be a problem in 1v1s (with the exception of Luma having more of a chance to hit you), but could be problematic in anything else. I'd love for it to be a kill throw though- in Fates his dragon form had great attack but bad speed, which would make sense here since it's a throw that doesn't require precision.
 

young grasshopper

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Meanwhile, a couple more things that haven't been brought up. Lemme use this video for reference--it combines both parts of Corrin's section in the Direct:


At 3:54, we get a glimpse of Corrin's nair: a wild spiraling swing with both the Yato and his shifted left arm. This looks like it could be a longer lasting "get off me" nair that drags opponents with him, in the realm of Zelda or Lucas. That's...not very typical for a character with so many disjoints, and if it's fast it'll give him a way to alleviate aerial pressure that a lot of similar characters don't have.

A ways earlier, at 1:15, Corrin uses his uthrow...notable in that he fully transforms and flings his opponent skyward. I'm willing to bet that'll be a kill throw of some effectiveness.
At 4:00, did anyone notice that roy's counter didn't hurt Corrin? That pretty much confirms that Corrin's F-smash is disjointed
 
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Schilt

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It doesn't look like Dair autocancels, unless it has specific height parameters, and it definitely appears to be a multi-hitter. Bit hard to tell with the clip, bit it appears to have a fairly short bit of end-lag on it, so even if it doesn't auto cancel it isn't the end of the world.

I do wonder whether or not most of the dragon related moves are disjointed or not, as his F-Smash almost certainly is if we look at it hitting the Roy's counter. If Dair is disjointed, that could be a pretty decent move for landing.
 
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I wonder if it'll also leave him with a bigger hurtbox during the throw... which shouldn't be a problem in 1v1s (with the exception of Luma having more of a chance to hit you), but could be problematic in anything else. I'd love for it to be a kill throw though- in Fates his dragon form had great attack but bad speed, which would make sense here since it's a throw that doesn't require precision.
Well throws in Smash 4 typically have invincibility frames once the throw is executed, yes there are some points at the beginning and end where there isn't invincibility but I don't think Kamui's extended hurtbox as a result of the Dragon transformation will be too much of an issue.

-----------------

Speaking of throws, Kamui's D-Throw was shown at 30:20 in the Broadcast:

EDIT: Made a GIF of it.

vzwjx.gif


It seems like it's angle/knockback/lag may be too high for proper followups, considering that here Dark Pit is well out of hitstun by the time that Kamui connects with Fsmash, thoughts on its utility?
 
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alguidrag

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Well throws in Smash 4 typically have invincibility frames once the throw is executed, yes there are some points at the beginning and end where there isn't invincibility but I don't think Kamui's extended hurtbox as a result of the Dragon transformation will be too much of an issue.

-----------------

Speaking of throws, Kamui's D-Throw was shown at 30:20 in the Broadcast:

EDIT: Made a GIF of it.

View attachment 88244

It seems like it's angle/knockback may be too high for proper followups, considering that here Dark Pit is well out of hitstun by the time that Kamui connects with Fsmash, thoughts on its utility?

We don't know the % of Dpit, but maybe that would combo with Fair or UPair or even angled UPb

sorry for dobble reply
 
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Spiralviper

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It doesn't look like Dair autocancels, unless it has specific height parameters, and it definitely appears to be a multi-hitter. Bit hard to tell with the clip, bit it appears to have a fairly short bit of end-lag on it, so even if it doesn't auto cancel it isn't the end of the world.
Remember how when Cloud's trailer came out, everyone was saying "His F-tilt has so much lag!!!!"? Well upon release we discovered that he actually has a much earlier FAF before the animation finishes.
We can't really tell when the FAF on Corrin's D-air is, so we'll just have to wait and see.
 
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Fire Tactician

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Well throws in Smash 4 typically have invincibility frames once the throw is executed, yes there are some points at the beginning and end where there isn't invincibility but I don't think Kamui's extended hurtbox as a result of the Dragon transformation will be too much of an issue.

-----------------

Speaking of throws, Kamui's D-Throw was shown at 30:20 in the Broadcast:

EDIT: Made a GIF of it.

View attachment 88244

It seems like it's angle/knockback/lag may be too high for proper followups, considering that here Dark Pit is well out of hitstun by the time that Kamui connects with Fsmash, thoughts on its utility?
About grab invincibility, I had no idea about that. Good to know.

Good catch with the other grab. It's unfortunate that he probably cannot combo with it, but at least it looks cool.
 

Cr0n

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Side special looks like a really cool alternative to grab options. Having 4 side b options and 4 grab options will probably lead to a lot of combo / followup potential.
 
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