Monster Mafia - Game Over! Was the Beast slain, or did evil overcome?

[Ashemu]

i think Gheb's rajam push comes from town though since nobody was seriously interested in rajam (but I think Gheb is the most likely of my townreads to be wrong, unless another investigative role flips)

maybe if you think he felt he needed to make up for d1 by bussing for cred but nobody really wanted to push him

i dunno. i don't know anything about xatres as a person but that doesn't seem hard to fake. it also bugs me inthat he claims jerkus is "hurting town's ability to scumhunt" by responding poorly when theres seriously nothing stopping him from stepping back and looking at other players while pushing jerkus. it looks like an excuse

 

[Ashemu]

FML: does your letter say Town or Not Guilty

 

[Ashemu]

basically: if xat is the super honest, can't-put-on-acts type that's probably town, otherwise it doesn't mean anything imo. but i dont know the meta here

 

[FullMetalLynch]

it says specifically Town

 

[FullMetalLynch]

It Says town.

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

I'm willing to take the Joey clear at face value for now, but obviously WL could be lying about his claim. Thing is, with our doctor gone, if WL is what he says he is then the scum kind of has to deal with him eventually unless we're left with a GF or SK

I'm also down for a mass claim but of course Im biased since I claimed long ago. At this point though it seems like most of us have claimed any way. Still think its a good idea though. We have a lot of control in this game since we're so far ahead. We can make pretty efficient use of whatever powers we have left with them all out in the open since we can kind of force the scums hand that way.

Given the claims that have come out so far I can get on board with lynching Mac or Xatres. I really wanna lynch gorf's slot but with a claim like that with us so far ahead it would be kind of irresponsible. I've had a gut town read on Joey most of the game and that investigation result makes me feel more confident in that so he can stick around.

If Zen is scum he gets the award for GOAT busser like straight up. Thatd be ridiculous. Like, mindblowing.

I havent had a strong read on Gheb all game so he's a viable lynch option in my book as well.

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

We can sit here and debate who we're most likely to be wrong about townread wise all day

lets make some decisions and get everyone in here

[Player] - [Claim]

2. Gorf/WL - Amnesiac Cop
4. FrozenFlame - VT
5. Macman - VT
10. Gheb_01 - ???
11. Xatres - ???
12. FullMetalLynch (Rake/Orboknown) - ???
13. Joey - ???
14. Werekill - ???
15. Zack Fair - ???

I apologize if Ive missed claims. Didn't feel like going back and looking through everything. If you've already claimed remind me.

@ #HBC | Mac @Gheb_01 @ Xatres @ FullMetalLynch @#HBC | Joey @ Lore @ Ashemu @ Xivii @#HBC | Laundry

Everyone get the **** in here and take a definitive stance: Pro mass claim or against?

I am pro claim.

Lets decide this first and then go from there.

 

[FullMetalLynch]

Wrt bussing id have to put up aggromed wl/gorf from the first ryker maf but thats an entirely different point.

What do you think lends itself to zen not bussing this game?

 

[FullMetalLynch]

We claimed end of yesterday ff. Voteblocker/doublevoter. Can vb someone or make someone a dver but not both in the same night and cant self target. Targetted you n1 and havent done anything the last 2 nights

 

[Xivii]

Not for mass claim. I hate the turn the game makes from claims. Let's just lynch the last scum or don't.

 

[Ashemu]

down with mass claim since the scum RB is dead and well if we have a second investigative then gorflaundry is getting lynched

 

[Ashemu]

lol other half cuts me with being against

i think ffs points about laundry's claim context are good.

 

[Xivii]

gosh dam just agree with me on one thing lul

 

[Ashemu]

tbf i dont have a problem with us not massclaiming either

 

[FullMetalLynch]

Also also , We're Town Vote Manipulator, we blocked Frozen cuz he wasn't doing jack and we figured it'd kick him into gear or make his scummy butt retreat more, him coming in guns blazing and sticking around is mui beuno, at first we thought the hated thing was a hidden by product of our ability but we chose not to use our ability last night meaning the hater maker is a scum role from our POV to balance us.

We can either voteblock someone or give someone a Double vote, and we can't double votify ourselves (lame ), so we're not going to use that aspect of our ability and tbh I haven't seen any lynch shenanigans besides our ability and the hater maker, meaning now is the perfect time to claim so we can sort this tomorrow, because i don't see us using either of our abilities toNight either

 

[Xivii]

Who was hated yesterday?

 

[FullMetalLynch]

Joey was hated.

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

Not for mass claim. I hate the turn the game makes from claims. Let's just lynch the last scum or don't.

Not sure what you're trying to say here lol.

Of course we're either going to lynch the last scum, or not going too. Like.... duh. The difference is how we get there and I think we have a lot more to gain than to lose by doing so. As ashemu said, scum has no RBer anymore and we already have a claimed cop so if other strong PR's claim now the scum is forced to choose. Plus it allows us to hold people accountable to something and more info to talk about.

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

Sorry I forgot your claim FML, I knew I was missing a big one but just wanted to get the post up and couldn't be ****ed to go back and look lol

 

[#HBC | Mac]

mac hasn't been scummy, just poe imo

was someone hated yesterday

 

[#HBC | Mac]

Who was hated yesterday?

hah

 

[Lore]

No one was hated yesterday, Mac.

Why exactly are we mass claiming?

 

[Lore]

I'm also with Zen on this one. I see zero reason to mass claim when we already have this game pretty much in the bag.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

No one was hated yesterday, Mac.

Joey was hated.

??

 

[Lore]

Ahhhhh, sorry. For some reason I was thinking the hating started D1 with FF, not D2. I'm tired and just got off a plane, lol. Please cut me a little break.

 

[Xatres]

Yeah, my presence has been lacking this game, although part of that is circumstantial. I had significant RL johns D2, and D3 was so fast we barely got any content anyways. Most of the people who know my meta has been saying I'm obvtown most of the game otherwise, even if I was wrong about Jerkus. Although the conversation now perfectly demonstrates what I said to Jerkus at the end of D1... he allowed my slot to be wasted by treating me like a prick rather than just addressing what I had to say in a reasonable manner.

Anyways...

Numerically speaking, I don't see how there'd be any more than 1 anti-town role left, so we pretty much have the game in the bag. My slot should definitely die before slots like FF or Zen, although I don't think I'm quite the play for today.

For now I think a mass claim is an excellent idea.

 

[Lore]

Why is everyone pushing for a mass claim? I still see no reason for it when we're this far ahead.

 

[Xatres]

Because at this point the information can do nothing but help town. Those who made actions can share them, discuss their reasoning, and provide lots of information/insight into how the first 3 Days have gone.

Plus! Considering that the last anti-town role is a killing role, it likely doesn't have any other powers. I'm banking on it being an indy SK. Not sure how I would feel about a scumteam being in control two lethal night actions from a design standpoint.

 

[Xatres]

Of course that's speculative about the SK. I've been burned by trying to figure out the setup before. :-/

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

Why is everyone pushing for a mass claim? I still see no reason for it when we're this far ahead.

I actually think the fact that we are this far ahead is the whole reason why we should massclaim.

The primary reason why you shouldnt mass claim is that it puts all the town PR's out in the open so the scum know who exactly to take out to do the maximum damage to the town's NA capabilities. However, at this point in the game, we don't run much of a risk at all. The scum roleblocker is dead, which is scum's #1 way to punish the town after a massclaim. Furthermore, there is only one scum left, so he'll be playing catchup trying to kill off any PR's that claim as we close in on him. He's under much tighter pressure than we are. We can afford to lose PR's because we've already killed so much scum, we don't necessarily need to rely on them to net the last one. However, if they are powerful enough, that last scum MUST get rid of them before they can out him, which is much easier to do when the entire town can coordinate night actions and the scum can't do much to punish it.

tl;dr being far ahead is a reason FOR massclaiming, not an argument against it

Plus! Considering that the last anti-town role is a killing role, it likely doesn't have any other powers. I'm banking on it being an indy SK. Not sure how I would feel about a scumteam being in control two lethal night actions from a design standpoint.

I see your point about scum with two kills being powerful, but recognize that if we're only up against a 4 man scum team in a 15 man game, two kills isn't necessarily too powerful. Especially considering we had a doctor in the game. Furthermore, there may be another town role that has yet to claim that could have possibly had poison prevention/curing powers, or perhaps Nabe had secondary powers to combat Johan's poisoning ability that he just never got to claim before he got NK'd. It's also possible that the poisoner was limited and could only poison a set number of times, or that he could only poison every other day.

Basically I want to say that you shouldn't assume automatically that we're done hunting mafiats and that we're looking for an SK just because of the poisoner flip. In fact, because Johan (the main serial killer antagonist from Monster) flipped as the poisoner, I'm more inclined to think that there is NOT an SK, since if there was going to be one, it would have probably been his character.

 

[Lore]

**** it. Claiming now since I'm curious to see if you guys agree with me. Plus I want to see a certain flip, which I'll get to.

I'm Heinrich Lunge, Town Tracker. Which is why I got so weirded out by Zen's tracker claim gambit thing.

N1 I tracked Zen and got a no visit. He was a null, and I was curious. I feel that scum has a pr left with all the hater shenanigans, so this makes me more solid on him.

N2 I tracked Gorf and got a no visit, which is why I specifically asked Laundry about what he gets after an investigation. I assume that if it failed due to roleblock, he would never know if it did. Still a bit fishy, but eh. Discussion is maybe needed.

N3 I tracked FML and got a no visit. I wanted to see if his voteblock was a reactive ability instead of a targeted one. His claim gave an excuse to why no voteblock happened, and the double vote power idea gave a reason to not lynch him by making him seem potentially town. So far I don't think I'm vote blocked, so we're good on that front.

I'm going back and looking at the vote count again to make sure, because my next post will be a doozy if so.

 

[Ashemu]

Gorf no visit is probably legit unless you expect a Scum Ninja Courier, although he could've idled his ability.

double investigator seems suspicious to me though

 

[Ashemu]

also fml is basically clear

 

[Lore]

No vote count has happened since my vote, but since FF said he knew of it before he voted, I'm assuming I'm fine.

Speaking of which. Joey. This is no time for any games here. If you're lying about being a vt for ANY reason besides being the hater maker, we need to know. If you're vt, this idea likely falls apart a bit.

Vote: Frozenflame until Joey gets his butt back in here.

I've been playing up my buddying to people, making everyone think I'm easily manipulated (hi Zen!). N1 I was going to track Jerkus, but I reread and got an honest town read on him.

However, besides me legitimately deciding (along with bad vibes from Raj and Vult, Vult moreso after a reread yesterDay) that inactive lynchs can be good, I've been playing towards FF. Especially yesterDay.

The problem is, everyone kept calling me town. As an obvtown read in many people's eyes, I was a clear lynch target. So scum had to think I could be used if I wanted to live. Jerkus was a clear first choice, and FF was an easy one as well as my opinions changed to match his a bit in terms of lynch philosophy.

Plus he seemed a tad bit scummy at points, so him thinking I'm his little pet might have helped save me. FF has been a bit of a question mark to me. His play has been VERY on point, almost too on point, and he set up nicely for town to kill various people after Raj and Vult died. Several small actions here and there are a bit fishy as well.


But here is where my theory actually comes into play and where I need Joey. FML targeted FF N1, he admitted this himself. FML became hated. Joey was hated as well, and I don't really know if he's a pr of some sort. There was no hated person toDay, leading me to believe that it could be a reactive to targets action rather than a targeted one.

So this can go a few ways. Joey could be a town pr of some sort, and he could have targeted FF and gotten burned. OR Joey could be a scum pr (likely role cop since they got a doctor) and FF's role is town to make up for the poisoner. OR the hater maker is targeted and this idea falls apart.

As of right now, I am 100% fine with either FF or Joey dying. One flip will figure out the other. Preferably Joey since FF is very useful as town, but I still voted Frozen regardless to spur discussion on him.

 

[Lore]

Gorf no visit is probably legit unless you expect a Scum Ninja Courier, although he could've idled his ability.

double investigator seems suspicious to me though

I'd like to point out my reactions again to both Zen's tracker gambit and my specific questions to Laundry earlier.

I also feel that Laundry is legit since FML got the letter thing. Maybe the two investigators help balance the potential two kills a night?

 

[Lore]

Especially since one is a cop who doesn't get his own results and the other is a tracker, an underpowered cop.

 

[Ashemu]

logically the hatermaker is just a scum role who targets people and makes them hated for the following day. if joey is a town pr he has no reason to lie and give up

i think WIFOMing the kill is silly because you could argue the same about my slot and ff himself and obviously all three of us can't be scum.

 

[Lore]

logically the hatermaker is just a scum role who targets people and makes them hated for the following day. if joey is a town pr he has no reason to lie and give up

i think WIFOMing the kill is silly because you could argue the same about my slot and ff himself and obviously all three of us can't be scum.

Maybe, but at the same time he may have thought nothing of being hated. Maybe he didn't feel like even bothering with the game anymore, so he claimed a vanilla to not impede the lynch.

If he comes in here and says what's what, my theory mostly goes away. That's all I want. If he lies and says "I'm totes a town pr!" then we get FF then him the next day. If he isn't lying, we get rid of the last scum imo.

But if he comes and says he really is VT, then poof. No big deal though, that's the whole damn point of me saying all this.

 

[Ashemu]

but even if he didnt want to bother anymore it makes more sense for him to out his role and targets just so we have the info

 

[Lore]

but even if he didnt want to bother anymore it makes more sense for him to out his role and targets just so we have the info

Never underestimate someone who doesn't give a ****. Besides, there's the possibility his role has no real information to give, like (and just an example, don't think he's this) a doc who has missed every Night.

@#HBC | Joey Come in here and say what's up.