Monster Mafia - Game Over! Was the Beast slain, or did evil overcome?

[#HBC | Laundry]

EBWOP: Not asking how, but moreso why. I'm looking at where it begins but there's little being said as to why he was the best candidate available

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

EBWOP the sequel: nvm got something

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Quick question: how did scary wagon even begin? I somewhat remember the basis for it but it was such a secondary wagon for most of the day that I didn't give it much thought.

I still wonder about that and I was ****ing there.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

i thought zen spearheaded it

still being lazy about my reread...

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

I still wonder about that and I was ****ing there.

I found some basis on a reread. It's actually fairly plausible from what I observe, though a lot of what I'd personally sink him for is something that didn't come until after the wagon started forming on him. What confuses me more is the wagon hopping with so little time left. I'm hitting that point just now.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

i thought zen spearheaded it

still being lazy about my reread...

He did.

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

this scary post makes me think gorf slot town

agreed about that scary post on gorf, washedlaundry can go back into the pretty likely town section

wat. like wat

how the **** does that give gorf pro town points? That was like softest, slowest, hospital ****ing lob pitch of a question.

He literally just asks gorf if his vote on him [Scary] was a joke.

thats like ez pz ****ing meaningless interaction designed to look like grilling. Im legitimately shocked that you guys think that makes gorf/WL look any better. When I read that it made me DISLIKE the slot more

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Not getting them town vibes from Gorf either. It's either his slot that goes toDay or Rajam imo.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

Gheb, thoughts on vult?

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Wanna see him post more. I have no issues with what he posted so far.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

Okay, I'm through all of that bull**** wagon hopping. Lemme take a minute to process all the information and I'll have a post up on my thoughts of it all.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

I think you're buddies with Scary and I don't understanding why other players are dismissing that possibility. I'm reading the end of D1 like you're trying really hard to make it look like you are spearheading the Scary lynch.

But then FF starts getting seriously considered, and It doesn't make sense. It's not clear what made FF lynch different from scary lynch because as far as I can tell they were similar. Lunching between the two of them looks like it would have been arbitrary, so there was really no need to move from one wagon to the other.

Joey in a similar boat. He answered my question about what made Scary and FF different in the vaguest way I can think of - I don't really buy it.

Now that what happened is fresh in my mind, this was one of the very first things I thought of in my reread. Here Vult tries to generalize Scary's lynch so as to make it look like FF's. There was actually legit motive to lynch Scary albeit I don't know how many people here grasped it. Generalizing Scary's lynch to FF's lynch as inactive/lurker who hasn't done much isn't necessarily right because no one went on Scary with that motive. While I didn't read before page ~20 or so, from what I remember there had been a low rumble of a dislike for Scary for playing like his scum meta albeit that's very vague and I don't remember any specific examples. Nowhere was he an option for his lurking. It's devaluing the Scary lynch and is trying to link a flipped scummer to another lurker/easy target like FF in the most mechanical way possible and it's just ****ing gross.

I don't particularly care for FF's play but I think he may be town for this. His time in the salt mines is certainly making him post more.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Pretty weak point imo.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

Pretty weak point imo.

Why do you think I didn't vote for him? It's something weak but it's still a negative point against him.

 

[Lore]

On the road back from DC, woo. I'm slowly rereading as well.

I haven't been feeling Gorf's slot, but Washed seems to be doing better. Then again, it's easy to see what a previous player did wrong then strive to do the opposite. Idk.

I'm still wondering why Zen did that gambit and forced FF to claim when he could have been a pr.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

I'm not writing up a lot of what I thought again. I have a lot of posts saved so I can get my references if I need them.

The odd point I'm having is Sprite calling Zen out. I don't like what he said about the FF/Scary lynches but I do have issues with how Zen handled that. On the surface a lot of Zen's jumps appear to be a matter of indecisiveness on Scary's alignment and looking for a better option but he constantly jumps back and every time he posts a readslist, Scary's always at the top of his lynch pool. For a man who kept trying to swing the lynch onto an inactive and then later was checking for interesting in another lurker, I don't get why Scary never budged on his readslist. My townread on him wanes because of this and maybe Ashemu can explain some of it, if there's not another readlist available where he shows a change in his thoughts.

I think that FML deserves more pressure. They're more of a non-factor than I imagine and even in the middle of the Scary push, despite throwing their vote onto that wagon, they never really talk about it or why they join. Are they V/LA or are they seriously just lurking? If so, I might be down for more of a look into them, hated or not today.

FF's push was, outside of Zen/Macman, really not that bad. It was a lot of people just moving to avoid an NL and while some may not be happy with it, it's simply a null play. Macman was never on board for scary beforehand and only votes Scary again to secure the lynch 30 minutes before deadline. The only one you could argue is opportunistic is Zen and that's only if you believe Zen's being opportunistic. So while FF's claims that it's mad gross and opportunistic on the surface, the only really questionable movement is made by Zen.

Nabe's of note simply because his vote just appears on Scary but I want to make note that Nabe initially voted Jerkus because he thought Jerkus was scummier, moved to FML because I'm going to assume that he found FML's vote off as well, and then moved to Scary when he saw that no other lynch was going to happen. I don't hate that. In fact, I rather like Nabe's voting pattern this game. I'd like to see more of his madness and I need to go look at his posts today as well.

I believe Joey was legitimately sure that Scary was town and therefore every single one of his movements makes sense. Once he made up his mind, he left the wagon and sought every other possible wagon. I don't think he's scum for it, just simply massively wrong.

Jerkus vote is one I'm less sure about. There's something I want to cross-reference in his posts because he did it to avoid his own lynch but also seemed really adamant to stick to Scary. I want to make sure that's because he thought Scary was the only way to go without a no lynch or if he was being more opportunistic. I still question his interaction with Scary on a whole and that's something I plan to do tomorrow, rather than today.

Ruy and Macman voted to avoid Hammer. That is Scary's wagon.

The only ones who moved to Kuz were Scary, Zen, and Joey. Scary because it wasn't him, Joey because it wasn't Scary, and Zen because "indecision". This is all I could really gather from these moves.

 

[FullMetalLynch]

Good ol' FF, throwin' his feet in the dirt and tossing null and half-***** statements everywhere despite clearing being read up.

what dya mean despite being cleared? Just that he read up or what?

Jerkus seriously still playing with his cards close to his chest about certain ****. Either they're bluffing on a lot of **** and getting called on it or they're hiding something, both of which don't sit well with me. I can mildly understand the Bardull point but not the Mac/Giraffes connection when it can be really critical to their push. The fact that they pulled back and credited it to feels is just weak and feels more like an excuse than anything legitimate.

but does that say anything of his alignment?
My feel with jerkus (and to a degree with mac but hes been obvtown imo since he jumped in and started doing things) is that he was too latched onto the one cycle of events between him and mac. Circus has been harder to get a bead on to me but J I feel has been genuine with what he's done. Rake says circus doesn't feel mechanical with his points which is what he ascribes to his scumplay.

Xatres is stupid or misinformed. Possibly scum but way to little to make that conclusion.

overly confident wrong town imo

 

[FullMetalLynch]

Gen 6 is definitely solid although the starters are easily the worst

Also, Washed, please just catch up and stop commenting on out of date ****. If you finish the thread and decide something's still relevant, comment on it then. Watching you bloat the thread with everything that floats through your brain as you read is painful.

Its townie as hell though

 

[FullMetalLynch]

I think you're buddies with Scary and I don't understanding why other players are dismissing that possibility. I'm reading the end of D1 like you're trying really hard to make it look like you are spearheading the Scary lynch.

But then FF starts getting seriously considered, and It doesn't make sense. It's not clear what made FF lynch different from scary lynch because as far as I can tell they were similar. Lunching between the two of them looks like it would have been arbitrary, so there was really no need to move from one wagon to the other.

Joey in a similar boat. He answered my question about what made Scary and FF different in the vaguest way I can think of - I don't really buy it.

explain 1st and 3rd paragraph more plz

this post solidifies this slot as my #2 lynch choice after rajam

I think I agree.

 

[FullMetalLynch]

Zen vs ff makes me feel better about ff.

Also goddamnit zen.

 

[FullMetalLynch]

On the road back from DC, woo. I'm slowly rereading as well.

I haven't been feeling Gorf's slot, but Washed seems to be doing better. Then again, it's easy to see what a previous player did wrong then strive to do the opposite. Idk.

I'm still wondering why Zen did that gambit and forced FF to claim when he could have been a pr.

Because zen does things like that to force a situation where he can get a better read. Its nothing you should find zen scummy for.

 

[Vult Redux]

Vote: Jerkus[/quote]Can you tell me what about Jerkus you didn't like other than his reaction to other players piling votes on him. Or if there's a post where you discuss everything that you don't like about him, can you link it?

 

[Vult Redux]

Gheb, thoughts on vult?

what are your thoughts on vult

 

[#HBC | Mac]

that you can die

 

[Vult Redux]

Now that what happened is fresh in my mind, this was one of the very first things I thought of in my reread. Here Vult tries to generalize Scary's lynch so as to make it look like FF's. There was actually legit motive to lynch Scary albeit I don't know how many people here grasped it. Generalizing Scary's lynch to FF's lynch as inactive/lurker who hasn't done much isn't necessarily right because no one went on Scary with that motive. While I didn't read before page ~20 or so, from what I remember there had been a low rumble of a dislike for Scary for playing like his scum meta albeit that's very vague and I don't remember any specific examples. Nowhere was he an option for his lurking. It's devaluing the Scary lynch and is trying to link a flipped scummer to another lurker/easy target like FF in the most mechanical way possible and it's just ****ing gross.

I do think that both of them were comparable in that both had few posts and were moving from wagon to wagon pretty swiftly and little content to read from in general.Iirc no one mentioned Scary's scum meta at all. Meta was brought up a lot toward the beginning but wasn't really applied to FF or Scary cases.

Awkward that you can come up with a difference between the two wagons but Joey can only give a very weak reason and Zen doesn't and calls me scum instead.

 

[Vult Redux]

that you can die

why

 

[#HBC | Mac]

mostly d1-d2 inactivity and your posts have done nothing to make me feel good about you. and process of elimination

 

[Vult Redux]

mostly d1-d2 inactivity and your posts have done nothing to make me feel good about you. and process of elimination

so no substantial reasons.Iirc you didn't like Gorf before WL replaced. Is that right?

 

[Vult Redux]

Err that came out meaner than I wanted. What I mean is that if you're resulting to process of elimination on early D2 then you're town reading too many people and you should probably reread.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

it's hard to have substantial reasons when your slot hasn't done anything substantial

Err that came out meaner than I wanted. What I mean is that if you're resulting to process of elimination on early D2 then you're town reading too many people and you should probably reread.

heh, i don't disagree

 

[Vult Redux]

Weighing in on Rajam because of relevance and I don't have to read 25+ pages to get a good understanding for the points about him.

being close to lynch wasn't enough 20 posts prior to this, and nothing changed in that time (except for the time itself).

This is the best point against him. When it's deadline time I usually know well in advance and I try to have my backup options set up (even if subconsciously probably) by then. If he already knew enough about Scary enough to place him as null in his reads list (ref: #890) then I would expected him to know in his head already whether Scary is an acceptable backup lynch for him. He shouldn't have to ask for a summary of points on him.On the other hand, his behavior is consistent with the reads list. I.e. he keeps to it rather than being opportunistic at the end of D1 in that he pressures players to move their votes off Jerkus and supports moving the wagon to FF. Even though his reason for having FF as solid scum but Scary null is questionable in the first place. Buuut no one bothered to ask him about that at the time.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

wait, have you not read the thread yet?

 

[Vult Redux]

it's hard to have substantial reasons when your slot hasn't done anything substantial

heh, i don't disagree

It takes me a while to get into a game because of how I read/focus on the game. I will produce more than Kuz.

 

[Vult Redux]

wait, have you not read the thread yet?

Read, but only really focused on the later part of D1 because I thought Scary wagon would be the most useful to analyze. So I have a general understanding of the game but might be blanking on some parts.

 

[Ashemu]

He literally just asks gorf if his vote on him [Scary] was a joke.

i read it as him being nervous about town voting 4 him

I was attempting to sway people off of the wagon even before Scary claimed. Have you read the thread at all? <_<

yea and, in context, it looked like you were renewing the push in response to his claim

r people just going to ignore gheb without explaining why myc ase isnt worth considering because thats lame as hell. i never got anwers about ff either. yall suck

 

[#HBC | Mac]

i agree about FF, that doesn't clear him especially since like I mentioned before he could be a goon or godfather knowing that Zen couldn't have possibly seen what he claimed to have seen and so just tried to play it cool.

from the feel / sound of his posts I did get a gut townie vibe from it, though I'm not sure I can really articulate why. though I'm with you now in that he should stay suspect

wrt gheb, I'm waiting till I reread to really consider the case. But that one post you linked didn't seem problematic to me, seemed like it was in line with what Gheb had been tryna do the entire day.

ppl in this game are kind of sucking toDay (me included) we should step it up

@ #HBC | Dancer vote count porfa

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

i read it as him being nervous about town voting 4 him

cant say this is an unreasonable interpretation but also cant say I agree with you at all

can we lynch rajam or vult now please?

 

[Ashemu]

FF thoughts on gheb?

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

slight townlean at best? nowhere even near the play for today though. not by a long shot

 

[Jerkus]

Hotel lobby computer is mine! Okay so I will be here posting finally instead of just side-lineing commenting.