Monster Mafia - Game Over! Was the Beast slain, or did evil overcome?

[#HBC | Mac]

Not sure how considering scary's connections == tunneling (despite how wifomy it may be)

Like isn't that exactly what we should be doing?

Anyways, I'll take a look at the Babe stuff, I remember not having a good impression of that slot yesterDay

 

[FullMetalLynch]

FML, what do you know about being Hated-for-a-Day? Like, did you expect that to happen or do you think someone visited you or...?

hi ash

I didnt know jack about it till rake told me. We didnt get any pm or nothing about it. I'm assuming it has something to do with a na

 

[Jerkus]

Anyways, I'll take a look at the Babe stuff, I remember not having a good impression of that slot yesterDay

Not sure if this was intentional or a typo, but I approve.

 

[Jerkus]

I didnt know jack about it till rake told me. We didnt get any pm or nothing about it. I'm assuming it has something to do with a na

Hm.

Wondering if it could be some kind of Day action. Swords announced that you were Hated after the initial Day starting post. If it were a Night Action, I would expect it to be revealed at the same time as the flip. Especially if you didn't even get a PM about it. But assuming the role that does this can act at any point during the Day (which I guess isn't a totally safe assumption), why would they choose to do it now?

 

[FullMetalLynch]

Couldn't tell ya. Theres the slight chance swords just forgot about it but I don't think thats too worth digging into now. We know I'm hated amd we can work around it

 

[Jerkus]

I'm mostly just trying to determine if it is indeed the cause of a player targeting you or some kind of passive effect on you and what that could lead to. If some other player made you Hated, then it's fair to assume that that player is not friendly, and you are. In addition, that player considers you a plausible lynch toDay, and made you Hated in order to provide incentive to lynch. But you're a strange choice for such a thing, and the timing is quite early. Plenty of time to figure out that any role that makes other roles Hated probably isn't good, and therefor lynching the Hated player isn't smart.

On the flipside, if the Hated modifier is a personal punishment inherent to your role, that would paint a decidedly different picture.

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

Alright so the scum obv have a boner right now for trying to get me lynched early this game.

I'm voteless. I got modconfirmed voteblocked last night.

Vote: Macman

watch that **** not go through

So yeah basically scum tryna make me look bad or motivate me to not be active to better justify my lynch. Or a dumbass townie who probably has some bull**** doublethink goin on and are like "lol frozen scummy for inactivity/not supporting the wagons I like" and concluded from that that voteblocking me was the right thing to do to help them better read my slot

as if not allowing me to cast meaningful votes and actually participate in the wagons is going to help you read me

like jesus christ think critically if you're ****ing town. If you're scum you're a doucher trying to bury me which is your perogative so whatever

I agree with it actually. I was thinking the same thing during the night. Scary's attempt to compromise on the kuz lynch looked s v t. His switch onto frozen seemed s v s.

da fuq

you're saying that scary was trying to bus me and then got himself lynched?

wow, just... wow

i don't got much... mostly cuz FF hasn't done much.

i dislike his lackluster play all game. i dislike his wagon jumping yesterDay much of which was very unexplained (and those wagons were pretty gross IMO). I dislike that he wasn't on the scary wagon despite how willing he was to hop on a wagon other than the big 3

Dude I wasnt on the scary wagon because it all happened while I was on the road with no functional phone. I literally did not read anything that happened between my post calling out the people jumping on my wagon and the final lynch. Literally did not even look at the thread. I had no opportunity to jump on. Id been uneasy about Scary but didn't have anything to substantiate it so I was treating him as null.

And dude you cant just call me scummy for being on "gross" wagons from your perspective when you know for a fact that I wasn't on the wagons you considered "good" because I fundamentally disagreed without about the wagons. Thats what I was ******** about all yesterday. I wanted new wagons and I just got a bunch of **** from you guys for not being on the popular ones.

anyway Im like really ****ing convinced that there were scum on the push on me from late yesterday so I'll be going through that **** again as well as scary's posts and then Ill be back to convince yall to hardbody the scum for me since I cant vote for ****

 

[#HBC | Mac]

i'm not hating on you for not joining the big 3 wagons, that's completely fine. I was saying that I disliked the way you so easily jumped on to the FML and Xatres wagons without much explanation.

also don't see how getting voteblocked means scum is tryna make you look bad esp since you can just claim and prove that you're voteblocked and noone will care / think you're scummy for it. like you did just now

While your vote doesn't work, I suggest that you still use your vote normally so that we can at least know what your stances are on some slots

@ Jerkus , so do you think FML is town since he was targeted?

I personally don't feel like there is any reason to assume the voteblocker / hater maker is automatically scum. I can see town roles being like that.

 

[Jerkus]

@ Jerkus , so do you think FML is town since he was targeted?

I personally don't feel like there is any reason to assume the voteblocker / hater maker is automatically scum. I can see town roles being like that.

I think FML is not mafia, at least.

What would the town benefit of a Hated Maker be? The ideal use of such a role would be to target scum and make them easier to lynch. If they're obvious enough to scum to be correctly targeted, then I would expect them to be pretty easy to lynch with a normal majority. That's not even getting into the fact that hitting a townie with that role in late game is pretty disastrous for obvious reasons. It just seems like a lot of risk for basically no reward from a town perspective. Makes a little more sense as a scum role, though, as I said before, the execution of it toDay makes even that seem kind of odd.

SK FML getting Hated for shooting ILG seems plausible to me.

 

[FullMetalLynch]

I'm mostly just trying to determine if it is indeed the cause of a player targeting you or some kind of passive effect on you and what that could lead to. If some other player made you Hated, then it's fair to assume that that player is not friendly, and you are. In addition, that player considers you a plausible lynch toDay, and made you Hated in order to provide incentive to lynch. But you're a strange choice for such a thing, and the timing is quite early. Plenty of time to figure out that any role that makes other roles Hated probably isn't good, and therefor lynching the Hated player isn't smart.

On the flipside, if the Hated modifier is a personal punishment inherent to your role, that would paint a decidedly different picture.

Im not aware of it being a facet of my role. I have considered this angle though

 

[Xivii]

I thought the hater thing was Gheb showing how much he wanted to lynch FML. If not, then it looks like a gambit by FML to make him look better. I don't see any other reason why someone would make him hated at that specific point in time. @Nameless was FML being hated meant to or not meant to be in the Day Start post?

Frozen what's with the dramatics? I don't think Scary was trying to bus you, I think he was trying to distance at the last minute since his coffin was pretty much sealed. I also think that your dramatic post at the end of the day supports that. It looks to me like you were setting up to look like Mafia Scary + Mafia were trying to make a last minute attempt to save Scary/Lynch a Townie. It's not something I'm sold on. You're not even my top scumspect because my aura sphere is saying that you're town. My aura sphere is more often inaccurate than it is accurate, however.

My more than one scum team conspiracy theories are tingling. Scary-Jerkus on one of course. Regardless I don't want to lynch Jerkus at the moment. Especially if he doesn't have a kill.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

I thought the hater thing was Gheb showing how much he wanted to lynch FML. If not, then it looks like a gambit by FML to make him look better. I don't see any other reason why someone would make him hated at that specific point in time. @Nameless was FML being hated meant to or not meant to be in the Day Start post?

this was a conclusion i was toying with, but i figured there was no reason to mention and potentially out gheb

It looks to me like you were setting up to look like Mafia Scary + Mafia were trying to make a last minute attempt to save Scary/Lynch a Townie. It's not something I'm sold on.

can you reword this? I'm having trouble trying to parse it

wrt your "even if jerkus is scum" comment, do you think we should focus on looking for an SK / indy faction instead of mafia?

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

@ #HBC | Mac

I jumped on to xatres on a whim because I was looking for basically any new wagon at the time

I jumped on to FML because it seemed like it might actually get steam and Gheb made some good points for it

idk if I wasnt clear about this before but idk if that helps you feel any better. if not idk what to tell ya

scum could be tryin to make me look bad for the anti-motivation reasons I just described, OR they could have been trying to frame me as scum voteblocking myself to have an excuse to not participate actively and allow me to have a less prominent paper trail

not saying this is guaranteed or anything but Im just putting the possibility out there.

@ Xivii your distance theory is plausible but if you believe me at all when I say I literally had no observation of the scary wagon developing then you know that that theory is bunk. How could I have made that post with teh intent to distance Scary when I had no ****ing clue the momentum was shifting to Scary? my end of day post was made entirely in reaction to the fact that people were jumpin on me when I was just coming out of VLA and didnt have a working phone to flexibly access the game.

@ Jerkus your analysis on why hate maker doesnt make sense from a design standpoint a town role is legit but I have to agree with Mac that both voteblocker and hate maker can both function fairly as town (even though you're right when you say they're extremely high risk low reward for town and thus are kinda ****ty town roles)

****ty weak town roles are still fair to put in the game though, that's the thing. Not ideally designed roles, but fair and functional and CAN absolutely serve the town well situationally

 

[Xivii]

this was a conclusion i was toying with, but i figured there was no reason to mention and potentially out gheb



can you reword this? I'm having trouble trying to parse it

wrt your "even if jerkus is scum" comment, do you think we should focus on looking for an SK / indy faction instead of mafia?

I think we should look for mafia. Just not Jerkus. Indy works too.

What I was saying with Frozen is it seemed he was trying to make Scary's lynch look as good for him as possible.

 

[Jerkus]

Actually, thinking about the roles in tandem kind of makes sense. If a townie goes voteless in lylo, correctly making a scum member Hated could be a hail mary way to not immediately lose.

I guess I might be willing to buy it.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

a scum hater maker is pretty strong if they live to late game. They can end the game one day earlier

 

[Xivii]

I don't think the hater thing is really important.

 

[Xivii]

@Vult Redux please give us your reads
@ #HBC | FrozeηFlame please give us your reads.
@ Xatres What do you get from Scary's flip other than Jerkus?
@Rajam are you all caught up? Why do you think Frozen is scum? Do you still think Gorf is scum? What about Jerkus town?

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

Alright so Im done looking through the wagon on me and the build up to scary's lynch

base on that **** here's where I stand

Town:
Zen
Xatres
Joey

Townlean:
Werekill
Jerkus
Gheb

Null:
Nabe
Gorf

Def not scum w/ scary but strong indy vibes:
Macman

Would Lynch:
FML
Kuz (Vult now but bleh thats a very disposable slot based on Kuz's play)
Rajam

I still need to re-read all of scarys posts though so this is subject to change. Tiers obviously show the most important distinctions but this is also a rough ordering. People closer to top I want to lynch less and people closer to the bottom I want to lynch more. Not that I think anyone above Mac should be a play today but if I had to do a strict 1st to last lynch ordering this would be it.

 

[Xivii]

I don't think the hater thing is really important.

Speculation is fun though. What if Frozen becomes voteless after making someone hated. That would be a perfect way to balance out that role.

 

[Xivii]

@ #HBC | FrozeηFlame I like that list other than FML. Putting FML in the would lynch tier is odd to me and is what made me think of the above. What do you make of Gorf's connection case of Scary to Jerkus? I felt the same thing yesterday when explained why Scary is scum and proceeded by saying that his read on him is null. Also why is Mac not scum with Scary?

 

[Lore]

V/la for today and most of tomorrow, in DC for a while. I might pop in occasionally.

 

[Xivii]

Vote: FrozenFlame

 

[#HBC | Mac]

oh derp, you meant two mafia f

Speculation is fun though. What if Frozen becomes voteless after making someone hated. That would be a perfect way to balance out that role.

Wow that would be great for making that scum role not broken in lylo

 

[Jerkus]

@ #HBC | FrozeηFlame

Why is Nabe null and Kuz/Vult lynchable?

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

Scum teams seem to be doing a better job of dissociating lately. Although that's quite possibly just a sign of towns becoming less accountable. Hurrah!

Obvious townies include: Jerkus (second vote on the Scary wagon), Frozen (obvtown), Werekill (ask me later)

Nabe lurked all D1 and was hesitant to move to Scary at the end of the Day. Scary mentions him kind of out of the blue in a couple of early posts, seemingly looking for something to talk about (it is my opinion that mafiosi will pay greater attention to their partners in thread without realizing it; for this same reason, I don't think that Scary's early interactions with Bardull, as chummy as they are, necessarily bode well for Rajam).

And here's where I'll emphasize the idea of Scary potentially being mafia's only killing role, hence the hesitation to bus immediately if you can force a No Lynch or swing to FML or something. Even with only hours left in the Day, Nabe was still trying to swing to a third wagon.

Not townreading Frozen right now, but certainly not feeling him more than Nabe. Frozen's post-lynch post about side-eyeing all the people who wanted to swing to him last minute reads pretty genuine to me at least.

+ In all fairness to you, "lurking" and "I was here and said everything I intended to say" are really the same behaviour.

- My "attempt to swing to a third wagon" was done in an attempt to visibly remove a vote from your wagon and emphasize the Scary wagon for other voters. I realized that I didn't like my company on that wagon, and that I was only really interested in voting it to gauge the players on it (and Zen) on whatever coin-flip came about.

- Poison was probably an alternative kill for scum -- see: common townread Giraffes, who was shot last Night. Only **** hosts (read: me) give their mafia poison-only as an MO.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

Scary lynch should happen. Jerkus has no reason to say to lynch his slow over mine from his pov as scum because its shady as hell to back out from that and my slot isn't worth that kind of ml effort over other players this game.
Kuz wagon is stupid and theres no way we snap 8 votes together in 3 hours like this.

I don't think this slot is mafia in this post. It's semi-introspective and treats Scary as the prominent option bar none.

Back from work; why isnt Gorf or frozen dead?

What's the issue with Scary? From what I remember he always do the same crap but I saw him givin some reads and sorta scumhunting that, although didnt make me think he was townie, didnt strike me as scummy either

Raj here throws out a couple names that weren't on the docket as if they're obvious calls, and questions a Scary lynch; nbd in and of itself.

Resume of points against him?

Here he asks for a summary of points, in response to being told it's a couple hours to deadline. idk weird

I was reading Bard as town when he was here, but in looking back I'm not sure I had enough to make that call. Compare and contrast with Xatres:

I'm here, still not voting Scary. Still very much prefer a Jerkus lynch.

More importantly, there's definitely scum on Scary's wagon if he flips town. With this many players it would be almost impossible for 1 or 2 scum not to be on a mislynch wagon.

This is a stonewall post, but it goes into detail about his reasoning for avoiding the Scary wagon.

From the perspective of someone who has you as their #1 scumpick, it kinda felt like you were laying groundwork to draw attention off of yourself when Scary flips town.

Xatres scumhunting through his tunnel of Jerkus.


Vote: Rajam

These two players are who needs to be talked about toDay IMO. A bus here seems unlikely, but if there is one Gorf is the best candidate, who left his vote sitting in the sun all Day (contrast Jerkus who didn't). This isn't me espousing a Gorf bus theory -- I don't think there's a bus at all. I agree with the sentiment shared by Zen in D1 that scum probably wasn't on the wagon, and maybe one not on either of the wagons of the Day.

 

[Jerkus]

- My "attempt to swing to a third wagon" was done in an attempt to visibly remove a vote from your wagon and emphasize the Scary wagon for other voters. I realized that I didn't like my company on that wagon, and that I was only really interested in voting it to gauge the players on it (and Zen) on whatever coin-flip came about.

This seems needlessly convoluted. If you were trying to emphasize the Scary wagon, why not just hop on it? Why dance around on FML at all?

- Poison was probably an alternative kill for scum -- see: common townread Giraffes, who was shot last Night. Only **** hosts (read: me) give their mafia poison-only as an MO.

Do you have evidence to suggest that Swords is not a **** host (his words, Swords; just speakin' the language)?

Also, how exactly does that work? Mafia would either have a dedicated shooter and a dedicated poisoner who would both be able to act during the Night (too much killing power, obv), or they would all have the ability to shoot but one slot could poison instead just in case that's more effective for some reason? Feels redundant.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

To clarify, not referring to Raj as a bus on Scary because (a) that conveys that I think he was in support of the wagon, and (b) that conveys that I have some level of confidence here that I don't.


Awkward order of events following my previous quotes:

UNVOTE
VOTE: SCARY DOO

Just because of lynch > No Lynch and Scary is nullish.

Note: Raj didn't get any summary of points on Scary -- this was of his own accord. It being close to lynch wasn't enough 20 posts prior to this, and nothing changed in that time (except for the time itself).

I wanna join this frozen wagon but we need to secure a lynch:

1. Nabe
2. Gorf
3. Jerkus (Circus/J) (4) - th3kuzinator, ilovegiraffes, Xatres, Scary
4. FrozenFlame (2) - Joey, Macman
5. Macman
6. BarDulL
7. Ilovegiraffes (Red Ryu/Ranmaru)
8. th3kuzinator
9. ScaryLB59 (7) - Gorf, Jerkus, FullMetalLynch, Werekill, Zen, Nabe, Rajam
10. Gheb_01
11. Xatres
12. FullMetalLynch (Rake/Orboknown) (2) - Gheb_01, Frozenflame
13. Joey
14. Werekill
15. Zen

Worth a try!

Unvote
Vote: FrozenFlame

Jerkus I see you online. What'd ya think if we move to frozen?

Weird series of events here, seemingly hesitant to stick to Scary (which is null).

Ryu, I see you online too, and Jerkus isnt getting lynched. You need to move somewhere else

This is a strange fit -- if Raj is Scary's partner, why does he encourage Ryu to move from the second tallest stack? It would be a square piece in a round hole. That said, I think this does fit with the hesitant and skittish semi-support of the Scary wagon that would be a bus if they're partners. The real odd-man-out here is there being a Scary vote at all from a scumRaj when Scary might have reasonably been saved by NL.

 

[Xivii]

Hm #1090 is why Rajam isn't scum with Scary.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

This seems needlessly convoluted. If you were trying to emphasize the Scary wagon, why not just hop on it? Why dance around on FML at all?

Because I wanted to see who else voted in the vacuum. You and FML were correct to note that me voting FML at that juncture was ineffective -- that's the point.

Do you have evidence to suggest that Swords is not a **** host (his words, Swords; just speakin' the language)?

That's d*** host on my part, not s*** host. It's a hunch.

Also, how exactly does that work? Mafia would either have a dedicated shooter and a dedicated poisoner who would both be able to act during the Night (too much killing power, obv), or they would all have the ability to shoot but one slot could poison instead just in case that's more effective for some reason? Feels redundant.

I know you don't like me very much, but did I not run a setup here where the mafia had exactly that? Maybe my memory of my own setups is shoddy. Regardless, it's a simple way of filling out town PRs (one doc, one poison doc) without bringing their power much higher than a VT. I don't think this is a Bear and Fish situation at all, and again, Iluv is dead.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

Hm #1090 is why Rajam isn't scum with Scary.

He says in 1090 (paraphrase): "It's a shame that Scary got hammered because we had the resources to get a Frozen lynch." Why is this a towntell for you?

 

[Jerkus]

The only game of yours I remember having a Poisoner in it was Persona, and the scumteam did indeed only have a Poisoner to kill with (other than a one-shot Strongman for one of the other slots).

 

[#HBC | Mac]

almost definitely not mafia
6. Rajam
11. Xatres
12. FullMetalLynch (Rake/Orboknown) (2) - Gheb_01, Frozenflame
14. Werekill
15. Zen

pretty definitely not mafia
2. Gorf
10. Gheb_01

everyone else aka my lynch pool
1. Nabe
3. Jerkus (Circus/J) (3) - th3kuzinator, ilovegiraffes, Xatres
4. FrozenFlame (3) - Joey, ScaryLB59
8. th3kuzinator
13. Joey

just wanted to highlight my thoughts before I finish my reread. i'm basically gonna try to eliminate more ppl from the 'everyone else' category

 

[Xivii]

He says in 1090 (paraphrase): "It's a shame that Scary got hammered because we had the resources to get a Frozen lynch." Why is this a towntell for you?

I feel you should know. Consider his intro post as well.

 

[Xivii]

Macman we are now officially town bros again. Those are my exact thoughts I was typing up sans Nabeshin.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

The only game of yours I remember having a Poisoner in it was Persona, and the scumteam did indeed only have a Poisoner to kill with (other than a one-shot Strongman for one of the other slots).

You're right!

But Swords hates my setups.

 

[Xivii]

Now there's not really a reason to make that post.

My lynch Priority is Frozen > Vult > Jerkus. I wish iluv was here to help push the Frozen lynch.

@#HBC | Joey are you still certain on your Jerkus read after the Scary flip + Gorf's case?

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

I do see that Raj listed Frozen as his top scumread along with Gorf when he came in.

I don't know, I'd like to hear more from others at this point as well as from Raj. Regardless of his read on Frozen, I find it janky that he hopped on Scary after he asked for Scaryscum reasoning and didn't get it.

 

[Xatres]

I'll be doing some rereading tomorrow morning, and then I can offer some concrete thoughts. Right now I need sleep.