Mog for brawl(please close)NEW MOG THREAD!!!

[Wu Tang Gang]

3-D game of a series=/= Revolution. I'll have to go with Deathborne on this one. The only "revoulutionary" game there was, was the Cecil and Kain one. That was the FiRST game to have the revolutionary battle system where..well I can't really explain it but if you'ved played it, you'll know.

Cloud's game was indeed, overhyped. There were better FFs, for example FF X with Tidus and X-2 with Yuna Rikku and that other one(I don't know why they all looked like prostitutes though). Sephiroth's theme music probably was the reason of it. **** One-Winged Angel..

 

[vesperview]

3-D game of a series=/= Revolution.

So you'll agree that OoT is in fact not revolutionary at all, all of the people who hate FFVII are just biased Nintendo fanboys that hate it because it wasn't on Nintendo.

Cloud's game was indeed, overhyped. There were better FFs, for example FF X with Tidus and X-2 with Yuna Rikku and that other one(I don't know why they all looked like prostitutes though). Sephiroth's theme music probably was the reason of it. **** One-Winged Angel..

X-2 better than VII, gimme a break, you just proved your bias right there.

 

[Lord_Deathborne]

How are FFVII's FMVs and 3D battle style not revolutionary at the time they were made? FFVII did the same to it's series as OoT did to it's series, bring it to the mainstream in terms of 3D gameplay and storytelling.

Did you read the rest of my post? As far as the actual core game play mechanics of the series, FFVII didn't really revolutionize anything. OoT did. The "innovations" of that game were solely in terms of the presentation, and it really wasn't anything to write home to mom about, even back in 1997. Basically, it was HEAVILY promoted by Square and Sony as the ultimate weapon in the 32-bit/64-bit era console war against the Nintendo 64 - and you all bought it and are still buying to this very day...

 

[Wu Tang Gang]

So you'll agree that OoT is in fact not revolutionary at all, all of the people who hate FFVII are just biased Nintendo fanboys that hate it because it wasn't on Nintendo.



X-2 better than VII, gimme a break, you just proved your bias right there.

"They hate it because it's not on Nintendo"? That's quite laughable, actually. One of the best games I ever played was on the Ps2. Actually, numerous games on the Ps2. Even some on the PsP. I don't limit myself to Nintendo.

By the way, like I said, 3-D=/=Revolution.

 

[Krell]

After reading merely his stats, he is too good.
4 strength on a 5 speed character? That is insane. No traction? This guy is Gdorf, Sheik, and Luigi in one!
Also, he's barely a Nintendo character. Appeared more with other systems than Nintendo.

 

[vesperview]

Did you read the rest of my post? As far as the actual core game play mechanics of the series, FFVII didn't really revolutionize anything. OoT did. The "innovations" of that game were solely in terms of the presentation.

OoT didn't revolutionize anything, it's still the same thing: Zelda gets kidnapped, although OoT Zelda gets kidnapped way into the game, Link goes off Temples, kills a boss, collects an item, gets to Ganondorf, defeats him, the main difference: IT'S 3D.

Please, OoT has no more merit than VII in the "revolution" department.

 

[DeuceBlade]

Who can honestly say "mog will be in brawl" and not sound completely idiotic.

 

[~Krystal~]

After reading merely his stats, he is too good.
4 strength on a 5 speed character? That is insane. No traction? This guy is Gdorf, Sheik, and Luigi in one!
Also, he's barely a Nintendo character. Appeared more with other systems than Nintendo.

Mog made his most significant apperance in FF III (US) a SNES title then.

Who can honestly say "mog will be in brawl" and not sound completely idiotic.

Its flat out stupid to say ANYONE will be in Brawl when that character hasn't been confirmed.

I would also like to add: OoT is pretty much A Link To the Past in 3D.

 

[Wu Tang Gang]

OoT didn't revolutionize anything, it's still the same thing: Zelda gets kidnapped, although OoT Zelda gets kidnapped way into the game, Link goes off Temples, kills a boss, collects an item, gets to Ganondorf, defeats him, the main difference: IT'S 3D.

Please, OoT has no more merit than VII in the "revolution" department.

..Which is why they're not revolutionary. Super Mario RPG was the revolution to future Mario games, not Paper Mario 64. SMRPG introduces star collecting, which is almost always in every new Mario game. Hell, it's also the first Mario RPG, thus another revolution. Was it 3-D? No.

3-D can't be revolutionary in any way other than graphics. It's the changes to gameplay and all that ****, that counts.

 

[DeuceBlade]

and people say Ness supporters are in denial.

 

[Wu Tang Gang]

Mog made his most significant apperance in FF III (US) a SNES title then.



Its flat out stupid to say ANYONE will be in Brawl when that character hasn't been confirmed.

I would also like to add: OoT is pretty much A Link To the Past in 3D.

It's stupid to saw Luigi's in Brawl? Shame on you!

 

[~Krystal~]

It's stupid to saw Luigi's in Brawl? Shame on you!

Oh I forgot about Luigi. Hes like the only true shoe-in I can think of really. Krystal is said to have one of the highest chances of being PC, but even I am not so sure she will be a part of the roster.

 

[Wu Tang Gang]

So you'll agree that OoT is in fact not revolutionary at all, all of the people who hate FFVII are just biased Nintendo fanboys that hate it because it wasn't on Nintendo.



X-2 better than VII, gimme a break, you just proved your bias right there.

X-2 had awesome graphics, different endings, and was pretty fun IMO. I've never actually played through Cloud's game, I only played through like 10 minutes at my friend's house. It wasn't anything revolutionary except for 3-D, I assure you.

 

[Wu Tang Gang]

Oh I forgot about Luigi. Hes like the only true shoe-in I can think of really. Krystal is said to have one of the highest chances of being PC, but even I am not so sure she will be a part of the roster.

Of course! Krystal's voice is confirmed, and that reminds me of Slippy and Peppy's voices in Melee. She was put in for diversity, not for a major part of the series. That's why Starfox creators jumped on the game with Krystal and tranformed her into a Fox, for the diversity.

By The Way, think of Captain Falcon.

 

[vesperview]

X-2 had awesome graphics, different endings, and was pretty fun IMO. I've never actually played through Cloud's game, I only played through like 10 minutes at my friend's house. It wasn't anything revolutionary except for 3-D, I assure you.

How can you draw a conclusion from playing a game 10 minutes? Please, you've said enough, play the game, then we'll talk, biased **** doesn't work, you're claiming FFX and X-2 are better than VII, yet you've never played it in it's entirety?

 

[~Krystal~]

FFVII does tend to be overrated, but it did present a unique limit break and magic development system. The materia concept was neat and multiple limit breaks for one character were unheard of back then. Thats like one of the few things FFVII was actually revolutionary in as far as shaping the series.

I guess it dumped the traditional job system too?

 

[vesperview]

I guess it dumped the traditional job system too?

Actually that got dumped in FFVI, you know, the game Mog was in.

 

[Lord_Deathborne]

OoT didn't revolutionize anything, it's still the same thing: Zelda gets kidnapped, although OoT Zelda gets kidnapped way into the game, Link goes off Temples, kills a boss, collects an item, gets to Ganondorf, defeats him, the main difference: IT'S 3D.

Please, OoT has no more merit than VII in the "revolution" department.

Wow... you clearly haven't the faintest clue as to what your talking about. Sure the objectives to the game remained basically the same, but the actual game play mechanics were radically enhanced. The Z-Targeting system in particular would go on not only to influense the design of future entries in the Zelda series, but many other series as well - including Metroid with the Prime series. There was also far much more interaction with the environment than in previous installments and the mechanics of nearly all traditional items were radically enhanced. To reiterate, objectives =/= mechanics. Oh, and while FFVII gave the impression of 3D with it visual presentation, much of it pre-rendered stationary, OoT gave you a fully 3D world in which to explore.

Actually that got dumped in FFVI, you know, the game Mog was in.

The job systems comes and goes actually. FFII and FFIV didn't utilize the job system either, and it made a return in FFX-2.

 

[vesperview]

The Z-Targeting system in particular would go on not only to influense the design of future entries in the Zelda series

OoT still fails to revolutionize the storytelling and objectives you have to accomplish in order to complete the game, which is what matters the most in the end, even Twilight Princess still has the same types of temples and the same types of bosses, as OoT, until you collect all the Fused Shadows, something Final Fantasy has been able to change with each new title, not to mention OoT's cutscenes have nothing on Final Fantasy's, my only point to it's revolution though, was the 3D enhancement the series got through the Play Station, which you are right, isn't really enough to be one, although any title revolutionizes it's series when it gets into 3D, but anyways I take it back.

The job systems comes and goes actually. FFII and FFIV didn't utilize the job system either, and it made a return in FFX-2.

They returned in Final Fantasy Tactics for the Playstation.

 

[HollabackRyu]

So wasn't this thread about Mog?

 

[IsmaR]

Yup, till Deathborne and Vesper started fighting

 

[~Krystal~]

So wasn't this thread about Mog?

When you connect the dots you'll find the argument leads back to Cloud, a guy vesper, among others, believes has a way higher chance of being in Brawl than Mog due to being the lead in FFVII, having a bigger fanbase, and appearing in many recent FF related games.

 

[vesperview]

Cloud has a way higher chance of being in Brawl than Mog due to being the lead in FFVII, having a bigger fanbase, and appearing in many recent FF related games.

Finally you say something right.

 

[~Krystal~]

Finally you say something right.

Don't twist my words. I restated what you believed to be true. I don't think Cloud has a higher chance than Mog. Why? Mog has a stronger history with Nintendo, is more retro, is just as unique, and belongs to a race of Moogles that have appeared in many FF games. Even games like Tactics.

 

[DarkVision]

Don't twist my words. I restated what you believed to be true. I don't think Cloud has a higher chance than Mog. Why? Mog has a stronger history with Nintendo, is more retro, is just as unique, and belongs to a race of Moogles that have appeared in many FF games. Even games like Tactics.

...Which Cloud appeared in as well

 

[IsmaR]

Finally you say something right.

Well, I'm not gonna get in that, squiggs almost killed me for changimg 3 letters

 

[vesperview]

Mog has a stronger history with Nintendo

No he doesn't, he has a tiny more history with Nintendo than Cloud, just so we're clear, FFVI Mog =/= Moogles.

is more retro.

1994 is not retro.

is just as unique

Which is irrelevant.

and belongs to a race of Moogles that have appeared in many FF games.

That no longer look like Mog.

Even games like Tactics.

Mogri was a summon, a minor one at best in FFT while Cloud was playable, and again the FFTA Moogles don't look like Mog.

 

[DarkVision]

Cloud has a much better role in FF Tactics, even though he's optional, than any Moogle

 

[Devastlian]

OoT still fails to revolutionize the storytelling and objectives you have to accomplish in order to complete the game, which is what matters the most in the end, even Twilight Princess still has the same types of temples and the same types of bosses, as OoT, until you collect all the Fused Shadows, something Final Fantasy has been able to change with each new title, not to mention OoT's cutscenes have nothing on Final Fantasy's, my only point to it's revolution though, was the 3D enhancement the series got through the Play Station, which you are right, isn't really enough to be one, although any title revolutionizes it's series when it gets into 3D, but anyways I take it back.

That could just be a series thing. The Zelda games are meant to be alike whereas the FF games are meant to be different. There are some similar areas and repeating monsters and bosses between FF games, though. Also, OoT's cutscenes are all in real time which, while inferior to the huge boost that comes from FMV, they are still a bit more consistent which could balance the two.

They returned in Final Fantasy Tactics for the Playstation.

The job system (you could change jobs)(and I'm not trying to correct you or anything, Vesperview) was in III, V, and XI from the main series. Jobs by themselves were in I, IV, VI, and IX. Characters were just blank slates in II, VII, VIII, X, and XII, though all of them after II had unique "Limit Breaks" and stats and VII and VIII the characters could use unique weapons.

 

[Lord_Deathborne]

OoT still fails to revolutionize the storytelling and objectives you have to accomplish in order to complete the game, which is what matters the most in the end, even Twilight Princess still has the same types of temples and the same types of bosses, as OoT, until you collect all the Fused Shadows, something Final Fantasy has been able to change with each new title, not to mention OoT's cutscenes have nothing on Final Fantasy's, my only point to it's revolution though, was the 3D enhancement the series got through the Play Station, which you are right, isn't really enough to be one, although any title revolutionizes it's series when it gets into 3D, but anyways I take it back.

Uh... mind repeating that in English? If you're talking about "revolutionary" storylines, VII doesn't hold a candle to VI... or IV, or V, or even III really. And even so, storylines are just icing on the cake, but you really ought not criticize Zelda in that regard, as those games have great storytelling - some of the best in the industry.

They returned in Final Fantasy Tactics for the Playstation.

Tactics is a spin-off series (and ripoff of Tactics Ogre), not unlike Crystal Chronicles. I was referring to the MAIN Final Fantasy series.

 

[vesperview]

I was referring to the MAIN Final Fantasy series.

X-2 is not the main series.

But whatever, we've taken this thread way off topic.

 

[Lord_Deathborne]

X-2 is not the main series.

But whatever, we've taken this thread way off topic.

It's a continuation of the storyline of X, so technically it is.

But yeah, Mog FTW I guess... (not really...)

 

[platnum]

Get Back On Topic!

 

[vesperview]

It's a continuation of the storyline of X, so technically it is.

Well, X-2, Crisis Core, Dirge Of Cerberus or Revenant Wings are not really important to the main franchise, that's why people don't consider them a part of it.

 

[MookieRah]

If you're talking about "revolutionary" storylines, VII doesn't hold a candle to VI... or IV

I disagree, I teared up a bit when Aeris died. No other game did that to me. While 6 did kill off important characters, no other game that I can recall killed off the main characters love interest, which was a lovable playable character.

The rest of the story though, not that great. I prefer 6's storyline overall (Kefka is ****ing INSANE) but the impact 7 had was greater.

I do think 7 was overrated. It was a great game, but it had GREAT hype as well. The hype carried the fanbase further than the other Final Fantasies, and has kept it to this day. It saddens me that so few people realize how great 6 was, cause I think it was the best of the standard series.

I'll take FFT over all the standard Final fantasies though, the story is WAY more revolutionary than any of the others. Hell, they basically make a statement about religion, how we view it, and the last boss was presented as a "Messiah" yet was an evil reincarnated psychopath whose history was altered by the church in order to garner more followers!! HOLY ****ING ****!

 

[DarkVision]

I disagree, I teared up a bit when Aeris died. No other game did that to me. While 6 did kill off important characters, no other game that I can recall killed off the main characters love interest, which was a lovable playable character.

The rest of the story though, not that great. I prefer 6's storyline overall (Kefka is ****ing INSANE) but the impact 7 had was greater.

Am I the only person that didn't like Aeris?

...I never particularly liked her character

 

[~Krystal~]

No he doesn't, he has a tiny more history with Nintendo than Cloud, just so we're clear, FFVI Mog =/= Moogles.

There isn't just a tiny bit more history. Mog was in a full fledged SNES FF sequel as an optional party member. Thats more history than Cloud right there when it comes to Nintendo.

1994 is not retro.

A 13 year difference between FFIII (US) and the games of now is not considered retro? Are you mad? There is a multiple system generation gap for pete sake. SNES(Past)->N64->Gamecube->Wii(Present)

Which is irrelevant.

I guess that means you agree. BTW, being unique character is REAL relevant to Sakurai. You think he will add another sword user without looking at other possibilities?

That no longer look like Mog.

Cloud no longer looks like his FFVII self in all the other major games he has been in. Times change vesper.

Mogri was a summon, a minor one at best in FFT while Cloud was playable, and again the FFTA Moogles don't look like Mog.

See above. I would like to add that Mog (FFVII), and the moogles of (FFIX) & (FFXI), resemble the Mog of (FFVI). So thats at least 4 games where moogles have resembled Mog himself. By the way, the FF Tactics Cloud was actually playable in was for the PSX. Thats not history with Nintendo.

 

[vesperview]

Am I the only person that didn't like Aeris?

...I never particularly liked her character

I did shed a tear in the scene of her dead, she really didn't deserve it, I find it ironic how they don't just use a phoenix down though.

There isn't just a tiny bit more history. Mog was in a full fledged FF sequel as an optional party member. Thats more history than Cloud right there when it comes to Nintendo.

He was an optional character with no relevance to the plot, that doesn't make him more historical.

A 13 year difference between FFIII (US) and the games of now is not considered retro? Are you mad? There is a multiple system generation gap for pete sake. SNES(Past)->N64->Gamecube->Wii(Present)

1994 is NOT retro, ok? Retro is only NES and any game before that.

I guess that means you agree. BTW, being unique character is REAL relevant to Sakurai. You think he will add another sword user without looking at other possibilities?

The sword user argument is trite and stupid and it's irrelevant because all characters are unique, not just Mog.

Cloud no longer looks like his FFVII self in all the other major games he has been in. Times change vesper.

Wow, that was just... stupid, Cloud is still Cloud, regardless, Mog is not.

I would like to add that Mog (FFVII), and the moogles of (FFIX) & (FFXI)

Yeah, where is FXII in all of this? Plus, XI is from 2002, remember how since 2003, no Moogle in the Final Fantasy series has resembled Mog?

Thats not history with Nintendo.

Then why are you bringing FFT, FFIX and FFXI up?

 

[~Krystal~]

He was an optional character with no relevance to the plot, that doesn't make him more historical.

Plot relevance does not = history. Not only was he the first Moogle to fully participate as a party member in an FF game, but he was also the first Moogle that could speak human language. Whats more is that he first appeared on the SNES.

1994 is NOT retro, ok? Retro is only NES and any game before that.

Where did this rule come from? Who ever came up with it needs to learn that retro doesn't pertain to a specific era, but rather, a significant gap of time between the works of yesteryear and the works of now. You must be one of those SNES owners who are still in denial. Yes Super Mario World is no longer cutting edge vesper.

The sword user argument is trite and stupid and it's irrelevant because all characters are unique, not just Mog.

Yeah all characters are unique in their own way, but not every character can bring something Brawl has never seen. Smash has seen swords, but Smash has not seen spears and dances that unleash the elements.

I can freaking connect Cloud's mightiest limit break to a similar move already in Brawl:

Omnislash - Link's FS

Even Mog's FF 6 limit break would be more original than that and its a rapid fire pummel! A blitz art he Locke'd from Sabin!

Wow, that was just... stupid, Cloud is still Cloud, regardless, Mog is not.

Saying that the Moogle of now doesn't resemble Mog won't make a shade of difference, because in the end a Moogle is still a Moogle. People will play Mog because he is a Moogle not because he doesn't look like a Moogle from FF XII. Ridiculous.

Yeah, where is FXII in all of this? Plus, XI is from 2002, remember how since 2003, no Moogle in the Final Fantasy series has resembled Mog?

XI is still widely played if you haven't already noticed. An expansion pack recently came out. Trust me, NO ONE has forgotten what a classic Moogle looks like.

Then why are you bringing FFT, FFIX and FFXI up?

To show you that Moogles outside of FFVI have resembled the Mog of FFVI. I brought tactics up to show you just how widely used the Moogle race is.

 

[Elysium]

You guys are fun to watch. Keep up the good work though! *golf clap*