Moderator Mafia - Now known as Loli Kawaii no desu forums, scum wins!

[T-block]

Is he town or null then? I'm confused.

Null.

He's done scummy things, but he's done them before as town as well, and I've never seen him play scum.

Wouldn't that lead me to null?

 

[Vinylic.]

I don't need to read, I know how Vinyl is and stand by killing him ASAP

That is ridiculous.

 

[T-block]

hey vinyl

are you up for lynching john toDay?

 

[Vinylic.]

For now.

Glyph is going to be next.
His past posts really consider him as scum.

unvote
Vote: John2k4

I'm going to read the past posts to see the explanation.

 

[Jim Morrison]

For now.

Glyph is going to be next.
His past posts really consider him as scum.

unvote
Vote: John2k4

I'm going to read the past posts to see the explanation.

If I was vig I would've shot you 5 times already and your dance on the grave.

 

[Jim Morrison]

Glyph, can I assume you're not gonna help us scumhunt until Vinyl is dead because you dislike him (also outside of the game)?

 

[DtJ Glyphmoney]

Null.

He's done scummy things, but he's done them before as town as well, and I've never seen him play scum.

Wouldn't that lead me to null?

Okay, so how do you plan on reading him if scummy things is a town tell? Does that mean him playing townie is a scum tell? Or does he just not have scumtells at all? Are you cool with leaving him as null forever?

That is ridiculous.

Au contraire! Prove me wrong and I'll stop.

For now.

Glyph is going to be next.
His past posts really consider him as scum.

unvote
Vote: John2k4

I'm going to read the past posts to see the explanation.

WOW good job proving me wrong! Nothing like blindly throwing your vote where other people tell you to win over your aggressors! Oh and hey, while we're pretending to know what we're doing in mafia, go ahead and tell me specific reasons about why my posts are scummy.

Glyph, can I assume you're not gonna help us scumhunt until Vinyl is dead because you dislike him (also outside of the game)?

Not openly no, but its almost like I have a little bit of a better reason than that. I will not be answering any further questions on the topic.

 

[CT Chia]

Okay, first of all, I'd like to clear one thing up. There are two distinct parts to my push on Raziek. The first part can be summarized in my 448. These points are relatively weak, but enough for me to base a D1 lynch on. They are basis for strong suspicion, but nothing conclusive, and I never claimed they were. You'll notice that at this point in the game, I'm moving my vote around my lynch pool. I am willing to lynch Raziek at this point, but not 100% certain that he is scum, and my behaviour up until this point reflects that.

Then there's the second part, which comes as the result of two events that convince me that he is scum. The first is the vote on Acrostic for what he supposedly considered a scumslip. At this point, Raziek is looking to be the likely lynch, and the vote looked incredibly desperate. I would absolutely expect town Raziek to be able to see that what Acrostic said was not a tell, despite what he was saying post-lynch. It is at this point that I am 100% confident in Raziek being scum, as voiced in my 538. The second event is his claim of bulletproof. His play did not match that of BP at all, and I know Raziek is a strong advocate for play matching the role, which he himself said in early game. These two have me absolutely convinced that Raziek is not town (although I did think he was mafia rather than indy at this point, mostly because I was expecting 3 mafia in this setup), and that is once again reflected in my play. The nature of my push changes when he votes Acrostic.

I'm bringing this up because I think some of you have the impression that I gained my confidence in Raziek being scum from the earlier points in 448, when that's not the case at all. Also, I've been seeing a lot of focus on the fact that indy SK has will to scumhunt as well, and that indy looks like town to mafia, which is true. But once again, note what the convincing tells were. A vote on Acrostic that reeked of self-preservation, and a claim that does not line up with his play. These are tells that imply anti-town alignment in general, rather than just mafia. Indy SK is also desperate to do anything to avoid the lynch. He also needs to lie when he claims.

So, keep this in mind when you read. Raziek WAS pinned properly. Kantrip, you are reading everything under the assumption that I'm scum, but don't forget to get the other side of the picture - read under the assumption that I'm town, and realize that it's the more likely explanation.

Why do you care so much about the Raziek case when you already said you didn't consider it as a mislynch?



Caught up to post 822

 

[CT Chia]

Whoops, that last post was supposed to be CP'd into the end of this post.

You'd rather, but would you still be willing to lynch John if it came down to your vote, last few hours before a lynch?

Interesting question.

I'm leaning towards yes, but not 100% sure yet. My reads on him on some key things have been on the townier side of things, and haven't seen much scum stuff from him. If there's some good concise cases on him I could be swayed to be a final vote on him if it's him or no one.

vVv ChiboSempai

Just making sure you read this post =) This is actually @everyone.

Watch these posts by John:



This is garbage reasoning. For those of you without the background, in Housepets, I was scum and led super headstrong pushes on town members and achieved their lynches. Nobody really thought I was scum for it, but instead were more like "lol T-block's reads are so off this game". That's what he's referring to. Comparing this to Housepets on the basis of seeing two "mislynches" is crap because of two reasons. One, the Raziek lynch was NOT a mislynch. Yes, mafia would think Raziek is town, but everyone is so caught up in that possibility that they're not appreciating that town thinks Raziek is scum too. Then, there is nothing to suggest that it really is scum looking for mislynches rather than town with a read that is off. I can see the suspicion being justified, but NO WAY is there enough information for John to be able to say he "wants me dead fast".

But I might even be fine with that if John thought Gustave was town. Then I'd be the one pushing for his town read to be lynched. But he doesn't. Look at this post:



He thinks Gustave is scum. He agrees with my case. And yet he thinks I would be scum if Gustave flipped town.

Sorry John, that's not how it works. If you not only agree with my read, but also agree with my case, then you think the case is based on logic and sound reasoning, which is exactly what town is supposed to do. This is the very definition of setting up a mislynch. You support Gustave's lynch because you think you can use it to springboard onto my lynch toMorrow. You can't say you agree with the case and then say I'm scum if it's wrong. Town mentality doesn't do that. But you wouldn't know town mentality because you're scum.

These are all mostly legit points, it's just not enough to be a full case on John (I don't think that's what you were aiming for though). The strongest point is the contradiction that he thinks your scum if Gustave is town despite thinking he is scum himself. The weakest point is the discussion about Raziek which is basically useless (though I see what you mean) and the fact that if you were acting as town leader, you have to admit the connection of you trying to be town leader in this game as well. So, can you blame him for thinking like that? Between this and John's reaction/thoughts to me early game, he feels more impulsive/dumb town than scum tbh.

Sorry Pluvia - I thought you were asking for why Kantrip was scum. That's why I asked Joey to do it. Here's why I don't think Kantrip is scum:



Some of that has diminished due to his lack of good play D2, but a lot of the sentiment still remains.

Simply put, there are better lynch options for toDay.

Re-reading this, I find it awkward that you're up to giving him the lime-green full town color based off of just this. You don't delve into the meaning or intentions and just give things that well, any scum could emulate easily. It's fine to feel ok about him, but to full blown give him the towniest of colors? idk

Hey nerds I'm replacing in get ready for some MUSCLES

vote: Vinyl

Made me take him off my ignore list, clearly scum.


No I'm not going to read, if you want me to know something post it.

You gonna remove this vote?

Re-read some of the posts after I join the game, some people already posted some summary type posts for when I replaced in.

Thus, the challenge begins.

unvote
Vote: DtJ Glyphmoney

Start your explanation.

Super massive OMGUS attack?

 

[T-block]

Re-reading this, I find it awkward that you're up to giving him the lime-green full town color based off of just this. You don't delve into the meaning or intentions and just give things that well, any scum could emulate easily. It's fine to feel ok about him, but to full blown give him the towniest of colors? idk

Don't get caught up in the colours. Lime green is only to show that he's my strongest town read. I even address this in my 489: " A bit hesitant to use the lime green with this being only D1, but there is a player who would get it, it would be Kantrip. "
[/QUOTE]

Why do you care so much about the Raziek case when you already said you didn't consider it as a mislynch?



Caught up to post 822

Because people are focusing really hard on my push on Raziek to attack me, so I'm making sure there are no misconceptions before anyone continues the push.

 

[Vinylic.]

To be direct, he's a wildcard due to lack of mafia skill. His actions could be classified as dumbtown or dumbscum, and we would be none the wiser. The sooner we get him out of the way, the sooner we can start getting somewhere in this game.

I don't really have much skill. If you were to call me scum because of my absence, it's rather weak.

 

[DtJ Glyphmoney]

So like do you speak a different kind of english than most people or are you just really bad at it?

I have made it very clear that my wanting to lynch you has absolutely nothing to do with you being active or not.

 

[Vinylic.]

Ooooh snap, smack talking.

It still wouldn't make much proof that I'm scum by what you think.
I haven't posted enough because I'm less knowledgeable for Mafia.

Gustave would have some better reasons right now than yours. I'm sure he can help you after John's Lynch.

 

[Jim Morrison]

You're basically saying you can't be suspected because you don't you post?

I hope you know I would also be just fine with lynching you if it came down to everyone being fine with it.

 

[T-block]

I'll bite, Glyph.

vote: Vinyl.

 

[Jim Morrison]

So did you have any other scum picks for D2 other than me, T-block?
You're joining on Vinyl and John, what I'd say would be 2 of the weaker players (easier lynches).
What is your opinion of the more stronger players at this point?

 

[T-block]

My stances have been really clear this whole game I thought.

I like Joey.
I sorta like Kantrip but he's being dumb.
Glyph's slot will be easier to read as we go on.


I think I'm okay with Chibo, if you consider him a stronger player... not my first pick at this point by any means

Where did Pluvia go again?

Question for you Gustave: you are so okay with an inactive lynch on D1, but why does that stance change so sharply on D2? We lynched the SK... we have 9 players remaining and likely 2 mafia. We could consider this D1 of a 9-man game, no?

 

[Vinylic.]

You're basically saying you can't be suspected because you don't you post?

I hope you know I would also be just fine with lynching you if it came down to everyone being fine with it.

Nobody wants little old tg here. As much as glyph seems to think it is easier without me, I suspect the game would go faster.

I can't really defend myself a lot at this point now that T-block has made his vote.
I'll still lurk here once I'm gone.

 

[T-block]

I'll bite, Glyph.

vote: Vinyl.

But Glyph, I want some sort of stance on John in return.

 

[Jim Morrison]

Nobody wants little old tg here. As much as glyph seems to think it is easier without me, I suspect the game would go faster.

I can't really defend myself a lot at this point now that T-block has made his vote.
I'll still lurk here once I'm gone.

Jeeeesus Vinyl, the whole point is that we DO want you here, but we want you to do stuff that makes sense. Respond to questions and important stuff that people post, ask questions yourself, post what you think of players. Anything is better than not posting and just letting yourself die. You have nothing to defend from at this point, all you need to do is prove that you CAN are are willing to play this game.

The whole point of lynching you is to get rid of the biggest question mark in the game.

I'm leaning more and more towards lynching you, because I wouldn't forgive myself if you lived to endgame. Even less if you turned up scum.

T-block, I suppose you could consider it that. It's also what I realized about yesterday, so my change on Vinyl changed somewhat more, making me much more willing to lynch his slot Today.

 

[Pluvia]

So yeah I've been away from all of smashboards sorry about that. But I actually got myself onto a computer just for this thread, so here I am briefly.

Instead of posting fluff I'll post my opinions on both John and Vinyl.

JOHN: Right eveything Guus said seemed to be right. I couldn't find fault with what he said, but the problem was I couldn't contribute.

You know how someone points something out, and you're like "Actually yeah you're right remember when they also.." well in that situation I couldn't think of anything. I wasn't seeing what Guus was seeing, I agreed with his points but I couldn't find any things I could place as scum tells on John. Honestly if he's scum props to Guus, but I'd actually be more surprised if he was scum than if he wasn't.

Vinyl: This on the other hand I can see plenty from. Hasn't he played this game before? Is it even possible to be this bad as a town? Heck this is my first game but I caught on pretty quickly I think, it's not that hard. He doesn't post and instead just says he's a bad player, but come on you can't be that bad you just need to ask questions. I think he's just trying to hide it out, and now that he's being put in the spotlight he's using a flimsy excuse.

Also I haven't checked but did anyone answer my question about Kantrip yet? I'll go check that right now.

 

[T-block]

I did in 803.

What do you mean you agree with Gustave, but can't see what he's seeing? That sounds self-contradictory to me.

 

[Jim Morrison]

Thanks for posting Pluvia. I can assume you'd rather vote off Vinyl than John today? I think the lynch is going in the direction of those 2. John for not having adequately defended from my points and Vinyl for coasting and not even doing it right.
What do you mean with not seeing it though? What I post "seems" right, but you can't see how it's scum tells? I thought I included with every point I made how it's a clue to being a scum tell?

Vinyl: This on the other hand I can see plenty from. Hasn't he played this game before? Is it even possible to be this bad as a town? Heck this is my first game but I caught on pretty quickly I think, it's not that hard. He doesn't post and instead just says he's a bad player, but come on you can't be that bad you just need to ask questions. I think he's just trying to hide it out, and now that he's being put in the spotlight he's using a flimsy excuse.

Also I haven't checked but did anyone answer my question about Kantrip yet? I'll go check that right now.

I know what you're saying, but the problem most of us are facing here is, we played with Vinyl before, and last game, where he was town, he played just as terrible and replaced out. Applying meta to this is all we can do, since Vinyl provides us with nothing else. And I think that's a bad thing.

unvote
vote: Vinyl

I won't forget about you, John!

 

[Pluvia]

Ok so I jumped back 3 pages and skimmed and saw TB answered my question on Kan but can someone else answer it too? Clearly something has happened that has made the majority not even take him into consideration and I'd be fine with that if I knew what it was.

Also my holidays are done and I'm back at work now so my work schedule should keep me right and I should be able to post here more, because I'll have less time to sleep or play Zelda.

 

[Jim Morrison]

Loool, T-block Ninja-sempai.

 

[Jim Morrison]

Ok so I jumped back 3 pages and skimmed and saw TB answered my question on Kan but can someone else answer it too? Clearly something has happened that has made the majority not even take him into consideration and I'd be fine with that if I knew what it was.

I never considered Kantrip's play scummy. But, the fact that at the middle of D1, some people viewed him scummy, doesn't mean he's scummy forever. If he's been playing well ever since, I don't see a reason to still call him scummy.

Someone's scummyness drops over time if he keeps consistently making decent posts and contribution.

UNLIKE VINYL

 

[T-block]

Oh Pluvia, while you're at it, take a look at 809 and tell me if that changes your opinion of Kantrip at all, in either direction.

 

[Pluvia]

I did in 803.

What do you mean you agree with Gustave, but can't see what he's seeing? That sounds self-contradictory to me.

No I'll explain more clearly.

For example say I went and quoted a bunch of stuff from Guus that seemed to point him towards scum, you'd be like "Oh yeah you have a point actually I agree with that" but you yourself never noticed it until I pointed it out, and if I gave you the task to find stuff on Guus you wouldn't be able to because you don't notice it until I point it out.

But for Vinyl for example, I agree with it and if I had to I could probably find stuff on him, because I've noticed the same things Glyph has.

 

[Jim Morrison]

No I'll explain more clearly.

For example say I went and quoted a bunch of stuff from Guus that seemed to point him towards scum, you'd be like "Oh yeah you have a point actually I agree with that" but you yourself never noticed it until I pointed it out, and if I gave you the task to find stuff on Guus you wouldn't be able to because you don't notice it until I point it out.

But for Vinyl for example, I agree with it and if I had to I could probably find stuff on him, because I've noticed the same things Glyph has.

In the least aggresive form I can bring this:
Does this mean you think I'm reaching with John's case?

 

[Pluvia]

As in do I think you're grasping at straws?

Well no, I think you have a point and he has definately risen up on the scum tier for me now.

If you look at it logically what you said was logical, but I couldn't see all these same tells you're seeing until you pointed them out.

 

[Pluvia]

I'm trying to describe this clearly, I have a way of making things sound more complicated than they actually are.

Like if I thought you were town, but TB doesn't, then he points out all these scum tells he's seeing, then I'm like "Actually I guess you're right that's logical" so I then move you off town and rise you up my scum tell tier, even though I never saw the things TB did until he pointed them out.

To me, right now in play, it seems more logical that Vinyl is than John. The logic against Vinyl is greater than that against John I think, so instead of me dropping by and posting fluff I might as well take a stance, so

Vote: Vinyl

 

[DtJ Glyphmoney]

T-Block I will read every last page of this thread toNight if this goes through, but right now John hasn't posted since I joined so I don't have much to work with.

 

[Jim Morrison]

Yeah that puts him at L-1 (I think? Mod, I'm kinda upset at these irregular vote counts, your absence doesn't really make this any easier on us).

Vinyl, are you planning on doing anything to save yourself soon?

 

[T-block]

unvote

L-2

1. Vinyl. [3] DtJ Glyphmoney, Mr. Wiggles the Worm, Pluvia
2. John2k4 [0] Vinyl.
3. vVv Chibosempai [0]
4. Pluvia [0]
5. Mr. Wiggles the Worm [0]
6. JO_OEY [0]
7. DtJ Glyphmoney [0]
8. T-Block [0]
9. Kantrip [1] JO_OEY,

 

[Vinylic.]

Yeah that puts him at L-1 (I think? Mod, I'm kinda upset at these irregular vote counts, your absence doesn't really make this any easier on us).

Vinyl, are you planning on doing anything to save yourself soon?

After all of that, I guess so.
I like that very much.

If I seem to fail doing so, then I bid farewell until a new mafia game.
I guess I'll start.

 

[John2k4]

I'm kinda here, mobile skimming & catching up.
Oh hey there Glyph

 

[Vinylic.]

Vinyl: This on the other hand I can see plenty from. Hasn't he played this game before? Is it even possible to be this bad as a town? Heck this is my first game but I caught on pretty quickly I think, it's not that hard. He doesn't post and instead just says he's a bad player, but come on you can't be that bad you just need to ask questions.

That I will do. I have only played about two mafia games. So I cannot be that well played. Even if can find a way to not be considered as scum.

I think he's just trying to hide it out, and now that he's being put in the spotlight he's using a flimsy excuse.

How am I doing so? Where is the proof?

Have you even thought of john? He might as well been doing the same thing. About right now.

Someone's scummyness drops over time if he keeps consistently making decent posts and contribution.

UNLIKE VINYL

It is not hard to be decent, I can manage.

For example say I went and quoted a bunch of stuff from Guus that seemed to point him towards scum, you'd be like "Oh yeah you have a point actually I agree with that" but you yourself never noticed it until I pointed it out, and if I gave you the task to find stuff on Guus you wouldn't be able to because you don't notice it until I point it out.

But for Vinyl for example, I agree with it and if I had to I could probably find stuff on him, because I've noticed the same things Glyph has.

All that glyph has done is getting to the point. What have you noticed?

 

[T-block]

I gotta know, is English your first language?

 

[John2k4]

@Guus - I thought I provided a response to each of your points..?

 

[Vinylic.]

I gotta know, is English your first language?

Way to make a question of my common sense.