MLG Picks up Brawl

[Pete278]

I'm sorry, but did you not see the Madden NFL on the game list? Madden NFL for ****'s sake.

 

[Sieg]

Madden is actually very popular.

Just because you don't like/play it doesn't make it a **** game.

Over in Japan FIFA 10 is played VERY competitively.

 

[Pete278]

I've watched Fifa, and it looks good competitvely. Madden still looks bad on a competitive level.

Popularity doesn't make something good, and just because people play it doesn't make it not ****.

 

[Darkwing SykeDuk]

It isn't ****, its incredibly in-depth and customizable and makes melee look like a kids game.

 

[Pete278]

Yeah, but you also like Halo, thus your opinion is invalid.

Case. Closed.

 

[luke_atyeo]

melee came out in 2001
counter-strike came out in 1999
starcraft came out in 1998

sigh.. if only that was the current mlg lineup, **** would be so S-rank.

alzi your dumb, old games kick ***, game companys are running out of ideas and just making **** games, there are some old **** games though like mary-kate and ashleys magical mall adventure (lol saw that at a game store today) but **** them.

old games are where its at.

also halo 3 is the biggest pile of **** ever, halo 2 is so much better 'hey guys lets make a sequel thats heaps worse and everyone will play it because they can win money'

 

[MTGod]

Yeah, but you also like Halo, thus your opinion is invalid.

Case. Closed.

Don't write off Syke's point - American Football doesn't get the respect it deserves in Australia because Australian men have grown up with Aussie Rules and Rugby, and when they see these guys with all this armour on playing a game that is (to them) somewhat similar to rugby they see them as "pansies" and don't invest any time into knowing the sport... Look a little deeper and American Football is an amazingly deep strategic game, metaphorically speaking it's the Chess of sports... A bit more tactical than soccer and a ****LOAD more punishing for errors than Aussie Rules and Rugby... /unnecessary defence of the sport when trying to defend a game...

Madden replicates the sport very well IMO, but I am a non-believer in sports games anyway as simulations are never as good as the real thing My point is if you don't understand the game you can't criticise its competitiveness...

(Here's assuming you're not an American Football fan :D ofc)

 

[Darkwing SykeDuk]

Halo 3 to 2 is what Brawl should have been to Melee. They took out the glitches but kept the core gameplay.. and made it better. All the pros love H3, seems to just be the bk's who complain theres no bxr or battle rifle now has spray and therefore requires no skill.... somehow..

 

[Bsrk_]

Meh sports are trivial but i preferred rugby over american football purely because of the constant motion rugby had in comparison to the stop start mentality of american football_ I recently read that EA sports games will be getting some good rep in MLG from here on in_ As mentioned before, they are highly competitive and amazingly in depth and challenging_ It is unfair to write them off purely because they are sports games_

The fact is that not everyone likes the same games as you_ By having a variety of solid and competitive games, you make for a much more varied and enjoyable event that can be enjoyed by a majority of people rather than a minority_ In the end it also comes down to money and from a marketing perspective i see how it works_

Games like WoW arena, MW, CS and Halo 3, Starcraft, Brawl/ Melee, Tekken 6, SF IV and of course sporting games such as Fifa and Madden all add variety that appeals to a majority of gamers_ This broadens the community, increases spectator numbers and participants and creates bigger revenue_ All in all it eventually leads to creating a larger community overall_ Elitist opinions should be left at the door_

 

[Darkwing SykeDuk]

constant motion rugby had in comparison to the stop start mentality of american football

WHAT???

cause you dont like.. stop after being tackled in rugby....

 

[Pete278]

Don't write off Syke's point - American Football doesn't get the respect it deserves in Australia because Australian men have grown up with Aussie Rules and Rugby, and when they see these guys with all this armour on playing a game that is (to them) somewhat similar to rugby they see them as "pansies" and don't invest any time into knowing the sport... Look a little deeper and American Football is an amazingly deep strategic game, metaphorically speaking it's the Chess of sports... A bit more tactical than soccer and a ****LOAD more punishing for errors than Aussie Rules and Rugby... /unnecessary defence of the sport when trying to defend a game...

Madden replicates the sport very well IMO, but I am a non-believer in sports games anyway as simulations are never as good as the real thing My point is if you don't understand the game you can't criticise its competitiveness...

(Here's assuming you're not an American Football fan :D ofc)

1) I am an American Football fan, its fun to watch when its on. Hell, I even have Madden NFL.
2) I already said case closed, guys.

Halo 3 to 2 is what Brawl should have been to Melee. They took out the glitches but kept the core gameplay.. and made it better. All the pros love H3, seems to just be the bk's who complain theres no bxr or battle rifle now has spray and therefore requires no skill.... somehow..

3) Removing non-game breaking glitches is hindering the competitive community. Think about it, Melee without glitches is probably just as bad as Brawl, really.
4) Halo has always been an inferior game (competitiveness-wise (is that a word?)) to Quake and Unreal, and if you want the same jumping effects, just put low gravity on.
5) I swear I said case closed.

Meh sports are trivial but i preferred rugby over american football purely because of the constant motion rugby had in comparison to the stop start mentality of american football_ I recently read that EA sports games will be getting some good rep in MLG from here on in_ As mentioned before, they are highly competitive and amazingly in depth and challenging_ It is unfair to write them off purely because they are sports games_

The fact is that not everyone likes the same games as you_ By having a variety of solid and competitive games, you make for a much more varied and enjoyable event that can be enjoyed by a majority of people rather than a minority_ In the end it also comes down to money and from a marketing perspective i see how it works_

Games like WoW arena, MW, CS and Halo 3, Starcraft, Brawl/ Melee, Tekken 6, SF IV and of course sporting games such as Fifa and Madden all add variety that appeals to a majority of gamers_ This broadens the community, increases spectator numbers and participants and creates bigger revenue_ All in all it eventually leads to creating a larger community overall_ Elitist opinions should be left at the door_

6)Its also unfair to have newer flashy (not saying sport in particular, since FIFA has always been somewhere competitively) games kill off the competition of older, much more competitive games, like what's happening to 1.6 and Starcraft, what happened to UT already, and what CGS was going to undo to Quake 3. You're left with two options, since the majority of casuals don't want to watch the high skill intensity of SC or 1.6, since they don't understand what's going on. Either appeal to the people who've been supporting the competition for years, or try and grab the casuals in for free money.

7) Okay, so, assuming Vyse to be correct, the game list is:
Halo 3
Tekken 6
Brawl
CoD: MW2
Madden NFL

Tell me, how does that appeal to a majority of game genres? It will appeal to the majority of gamers, sure, but only through sheer numbers of casuals who play the above games. However, there's no RTS, there's no deathmatch fps, there's no WoW Arena (really, if you're going for numbers, just have that as your only game, nothing can outdo it), etc.

8) This argument would be easier if WCG hadn't decided they were actually the Korean Cyber Games, and if CGS hadn't gone bankrupt. Then I could just say 'yeah they're better'

9) Case closed.

 

[Sieg]

That was the worst post I've ever seen. You've basically posted opinions about PC games and forced them onto a console hard League.

I swear if I see you post Case closed one more time I'm going to punch you in the face.

Halo has a grand prize of 500,000 dollars, in MLG. It is the largest competetive community of Halo players in the world. How the ****. is that weaker to Unreal or Quake, once again considering that THIS IS A GOD**** ****ING CONSOLE SERIES.

Seriously.

 

[Pete278]

Oh, eastern states. Seriously, I would've thought by now someone would've just reported me for trolling, but you continue to be so easy.

One more bit that isn't trolling: POPULARITY != QUALITY. Remember, Big Brother was the best show to grace TV, Avatar is the best movie of all time, and Guilty Gear is a **** fighting game.

EDIT: Oh, and consoles are inferior to PCs in almost every way kthx.

 

[Sieg]

No, you just fail hard because you got your post ****ed up hard.

 

[Pete278]

Oh, yes, now that the great Sieg dislikes my post, it got ****ed up hard. Clearly, because he's more popular, his points are more valid too!

EDIT: And, btw, there are actually rts and dm fps games on consoles, so that point was hardly invalid.

 

[Bsrk_]

Pete just let it go seriously it's embarrassing_ You are unable to say you were trolling by giving a detailed quote and point rebuttal to people's comments_ That is not trolling but instead serious discussion_ Using the old "just trolling guys" strategy doesn't work_ Sieg makes a valid point about 2 things especially the Case Closed which isn't funny and comes across very brash_

It's a proven fact that RTS are just not as competitive on consoles as they are on PC_ Sieg pointing out that this is infact a console series shows that the line-up makes sense_ I am not sure how you can say that the games listed on the MLG circuit are for casual gamers_ I don't know a single person yet who still casually plays those games out of leisure_

Let your attitude go_ If you can't have a valid discussion in a more mature fashion then you shouldn't bother wasting everyone's (including your own) time_

 

[Sloth]

Play a real competitive game! Lets go ! Quake Live - 1v1.
It's starting to get more popular too. As in money/prizes.

I kinda understand what Pete means - people do play games on that line up competitively and they surely have depth to a degree, but maybe not as much as other titles.
However the amount of skill is always purely subjective because unless you play it to that level you never realise the amount of work needed.

I saw that Brawl was put in the MLG lineup. So I went "Oh I used to play Brawl maybe I should play it again" I then went forth and watched some pound 4 brawl videos.... and after 2mins I wanted to claw my eyes out due to bordem.. Back to meleee for meee.

 

[Vyse]

Pete, you're entitled to your opinion, but don't try to start an argument. Same with you Sieg.

Brawl had equivalent earnings to Halo in the competitive scene last year. It was through the sheer amount of grass roots tournaments. Whereas Halo's come in larger quantities at once (MLG lol).

 

[C~Dog]

One more bit that isn't trolling: POPULARITY != QUALITY. Remember, Big Brother was the best show to grace TV, Avatar is the best movie of all time, and Guilty Gear is a **** fighting game.

Popular things are popular for a reason.

 

[Ledge_g2]

Depth and skill for a game isnt everything. Of course you need a bit of depth and skill, but you need the game to be as popular as possible. The chance of good players playing becomes higher. Therefore more competition at higher levels and more reward for winning.

Also stop thinking of brawl like melee. They are completely different play styles. if you play brawl like you would in melee you will get ***** by a good player.
Brawl is practically a game of Chess, where you have to be cunning and plan out ALL of your actions with thinking ahead and tricking your opponent.

 

[Bsrk_]

Gaming is slightly different to television_ television persuades or as i call it, brainwashes us into giving particular shows ratings_ Over hyping, bombarding with commercials and placing certain shows in prime time positions basically grants it ratings and high viewings in comparison to arguably better shows which are on at later times_ Because the show is popular, does not mean it's life span will last longer_

Shows such as Buffy have achieved cult status and still have a solid follwing_ Although it was on at such a late time frame, it still managed to have several seasons, a spin-off show and a slew of fans who are still to this day devoted_

Gaming does not differ in terms of marketing unfortunately_ Logging into IGN and being bombarded with viral campaigns and biased opinions, constant ads that fortunately Australia is not as much of a victim in comparison to USA_ These create better revenue for games that may not be better, but in the long run, better games have a larger fan base and longer shelf life_

Tournaments such as MLG are still looking for viewers and a larger community base to appeal to whilst stil retaining a highly competitive scene for core gamers_ The fact is that gamers still have a choice whether they put the game into there console or not and continue to play it_ Television only has a handful of choices, the major being don't watch it or download it_ The majority of society watch television rather then game and hence it is a different beast which dictates to people shows they like or watch_ Fortunately Australia is being given a slightly broader choice but still not to the extent it needs to be_

Sport is enjoyable because it is competitive but also entertaining_ MLG needs to have the same approach with it's games hence it's choice is viable to in terms of consoles_ they are obviously taking into consideration such leagues as EVO in offering a diversity overall League wise_

Also i think you are being a little unfair to Avatar_ Athough the story was familiar, the premise is so much more than just a film_ It is a show of technological advancement, from digital design to 3d utilization and creating virtual characters and actors a much more closer relationship that is distinguishable on screen_ The fact that all the actors movements and facial expressions where near perfectly mapped out through this technology is an amazing feat that canot be scoffed at_

Avatar also proved to the world that there is room for imagination and creating something larger and more grand than the usual array of films_ It may not be the greatest release of 2009/ 2010 but it was an important one_ Anything that develops viewer awareness and interaction is an important achievement for any industry_ It cost alot to make but showed what will soon be capable within the industry and showed how close games are becoming to its related industries_ I would compare it more to the Matrix in terms of a showcase of what is possible when people look outside of what is currently being spewed out_

Although nothing new, it's done so refreshingly that it takes a variety of concepts and makes them whole and spectacular_ think of this like God of War's refreshing perspective on hack and slash games, MW with FPS'es, WoW with MMO's_ They all take a familiar formula and create something refreshing and captivating that people go, why wasn't that done before_?

**** you got me ranting again_ Blah_

 

[Sloth]

Brawl is practically a game of Chess, where you have to be cunning and plan out ALL of your actions with thinking ahead and tricking your opponent.

I find this funny. Do you play melee? Or are you assuming that brawl requires thinking ahead and melee doesn't? I'm not doubting that Brawl requires that skillset; I just don't you think you realise melee does as well.

 

[Dekar289]

not really
for me, it's just back air up to 90% then smash smashes
and it works

 

[CAOTIC]

^ Because your competition sucks.

 

[Ledge_g2]

Popular as possible is something most people want for there favourite game. But most popular games are those with little or no learning curve. Casual gamers can join and play fairly well. But it doesn't mean in all cases good players will be 'that' much higher then the average. That is all due to the limit of depth.
Of course with team games this is also altered in many aspects due to team skill and co-operation.

Yes agreed. I didn't mean popularity was the most important, i just meant that it is more important then people would like to think.
Depth and skill is indeed very imortant. but if no one knows about the game or no one that is good is playing now and the future, then what is the point in getting better.

I find this funny. Do you play melee? Or are you assuming that brawl requires thinking ahead and melee doesn't? I'm not doubting that Brawl requires that skillset; I just don't you think you realise melee does as well.

I didn't say Melee doesnt require thinking ahead. Brawl is more centralized around those skills though.
Don't get me wrong, I think Melee is a great game and very entertaining to watch. I'm just pointing out that the Brawl metagame is very different considering its the same genre as Melee. Brawl is alot slower and defense rewarding then Melee. This gives people the time to think ahead further and bait people into attacking you(trapping) which is a huge part of the metagame. In Melee you don't realy have to worry about attacking someones shield, In Brawl at high levels its most of the time a 'disadvantaged position' to do so.

 

[Dekar289]

^ Because your competition sucks.

i thought tedeth was supposed to be pretty good

 

[TakFR]

Yeah we don't attack shields in melee, we just look at how pretty they are. Also pretty sure that all competitive fighting games involve putting your opponent in a disadvantaged position by limiting their options and thinking ahead (aka predicting what they are going to do)

 

[Ledge_g2]

i thought tedeth was supposed to be pretty good

GaW is a char that few truly know how to counter in Australia yet. go try that against someone that knows how do deal with GaW moveset.

MM Dekar?

EDIT:
Tak: How do you manage to miss read all of my posts? I was talking about it being an advantage position to attack a shield in Melee while its the opposite for Brawl.
Ohh and of course thats the idea of fighting games, all competitive games for that matter. I didnt say it wasn't!

 

[Dekar289]

im not big on mm

hopefully we vs in bracket
we always have good matches


also
i think brawl has a lot more time when both players are neutral
whether it be camping or just jumping around or whatever
lots of neutrals positions
whereas in melee you're often either on the offense of on the defense

 

[Ledge_g2]

im not big on mm
hopefully we vs in bracket
we always have good matches

Yeah I hope so too. Would be fun.

also
i think brawl has a lot more time when both players are neutral
whether it be camping or just jumping around or whatever
lots of neutrals positions
whereas in melee you're often either on the offense of on the defense

Agreed!

 

[Sloth]

i think brawl has a lot more time when both players are neutral
whether it be camping or just jumping around or whatever
lots of neutrals positions
whereas in melee you're often either on the offense of on the defense

Oh wow. I agree with Dekar too. Not that I have anything against the guy it just seems common place that most people disagree with him!
Melee is heavily dependant on momentum but that is due to it's faster nature. You don't have time to sit-back and wait a few seconds.

Anyways, will MLG running brawl even have an impact on the Australian smash scene overall?

 

[Pete278]

Popular things are popular for a reason.

And as my examples prove, sometimes those reasons are either extremely petty, or 'everyone else is doing it'.

EDIT: Also, to Bob's earlier post: coming across as brash is a very effective trolling technique. Even though my points were valid (some of them, at least), the fact I acted brash about them got people (i.e. Sieg in this case) angry. Its surprisingly effective.

 

[Sirias]

Originally Posted by TakFR
I knew it was around in 2007 but if people are still playing/watching it then wow.... that's good for them I guess >_>

Originally Posted by Ledge
Halo is Amazing! 'WoW' is the correct statement when playing at the highest levels. I would still be playing it if I didnt have low net cap and had more then a couple friends that still played at high enough levels.

Originally Posted by TakFR
I meant wow as in the word, not the game

Originally Posted by Ledge
As did I tak. Im talking about halo here lol.
I dont play WoW... anymore.

...
I don't understand how you didn't mean WoW when you said "WoW"...?
Unless WoW means something to Halo?

Edit:

Not trying to get into the argument or anything of the sort but...
Pete...
Stfu.
You're a wannabe troll.
Learn how to properly troll without making crud up to cover up the obvious fail that is fail trolling AKA not trolling but rather losing an argument/discussion.
Just man up, ffs.
Admit your loss?
You're just making yourself look... Lol.

ALSO!
On a random note...
I was reading a review on TWEWY (The World Ends With You), and there were 2 or 3 people that got infuriated by the main character saying: "full of fail".
And then ONE of them states: "I mean NO ONE says that in the real world! -100 points."
...
I say that fails, invalid review.

 

[Dekar289]

oh wow @ you guys

*badoom tish*

 

[Sieg]

Face it. You tried to cover up. Quoting the whole post in fractions then rolling back on trolling? lol.

Also, I just happened to be angry at the time I posted that message, it wasn't you. I was thinking about how fat I was getting and it was annoying me.

 

[unreon]

Popular things are popular for a reason.

Twilight :/

Anyway, regarding AVATAR. The reason it did so well is because it was a **** beautiful movie. That's why people went to see it. Everyone knows the other elements were stock and standard. AVATAR was more a tour through an (@#$% gorgeous) alien planet than anything else.

I wish we were a moon for another planet sometimes. Imagine seeing the planet you are orbiting in the sky, taking up half of what you can see and remaining there for 3/4 of the day. AND its all scientifically accurate too, which bodes well for dorks like me :D

 

[Bsrk_]

I agree with Dekars comment about brawl and melee_ I heard TWEWY is meant to be an awsomely addictive game_ Dont you fight kangaroos in it randomly enough_?

Edit: unreon as mentioned, avatar was a solid display of technology which was created for the film_ nothing has looked that realistic in 3D either till this point so it is fairly important_ Also the story was effective because it branched out to a broader audience_ It was relatable and people could accept it easier than an over convulated and deep plot_ Twilight was popular because of the books first and Catherine Hardwicks effort on the firt film_ She knew how to connect it with teen audiences and it worked well_ I commend her effort because I witnessed a massive fanbase created on how she directed the film alone and she really knew how to hit it_ This shows as New Moon was an amazingly bland and boring film that was cashing in on the popularity and hard work Hardwicke put into establishing the franchise_ I would have been interested in seeing what would happen if she had been allowed to direct all 4 films rather than the studio get greedy_ She set the groundwork for something bigger and it hasn't been allowed to fully mature_ As afilm student I can understand how frustrating this would be_ You cannot deny it's influence_

sorry bout the wall of text typing from phone_

 

[Dekar289]

i also agree with me

and yeh twewy pretty gud

 

[Pete278]

And as my examples prove, sometimes those reasons are either extremely petty, or 'everyone else is doing it'.

EDIT: Also, to Bob's earlier post: coming across as brash is a very effective trolling technique. Even though my points were valid (some of them, at least), the fact I acted brash about them got people (i.e. Sieg in this case) angry. Its surprisingly effective.

I have no friends irl, and pretty much nothing to do. Probably because of the irl trolling, really. And sure you weren't angry at me. Sure.



Also, as posted above, Twilight is also an awesome disprover of 'popular = good'. I didn't think people actually used that as an argument in intelligent discussion.

 

[Sieg]

Yeah, you got me.

But next time I see you, I will headbutt you hard.