Mink's Matchup Thread

[Chuee]

jigglypuff has a stronger fair than gannon and definatly g&w i'm sure of that.

Zelda and falcon like i said before they're sweet spots and alot harder to hit with. Excluding those jigglypuff has the strongest fair and if not 2nd behind peach's.
jiggly's is also on a sweetspot and that sweetspot has a small range.

also upthrow is insanley quick. You're not always going to be able to tech it. Also if your camping in the places i can jab lock you i can just go to where you are and grab you. It'd make more sense if you camped where i couldn't do it rather than where i could.
i wouldn't approach someone camping near there. If you mess up and i read your grab, you might be the one getting locked.

also, its called using up b, and homing the pk thunder over the log on the fire level and try to hit me with it. I can't get to fast enough before its over. How does that not makes sense?
ok, but even so that's incredibly easy to get past. Shield. Or in jiggly's case, pound.

1234567890

 

[Jigglymaster]

1234567890

Jigglypuff's fair sweet spot is not nearly as small as Falcon's or Zelda's. Its MUCH easier and less dangerous to try to hit with.

Jigglypuff has more than one way to grab you, you know. Another effective way to grab with Jiggs is by doing a pivot shorthop dair into grab. Or I could just not grab you at all and trick you into thinking I'm going to grab you. I'm not an amatuer who'd try to do the obvious run up and grab.

 

[Chuee]

Jigglypuff's fair sweet spot is not nearly as small as Falcon's or Zelda's. Its MUCH easier and less dangerous to try to hit with.
Zelda can sweetspot her fair from SH fairs on taller characters. Don't see how its dangerous though...

Jigglypuff has more than one way to grab you, you know. Another effective way to grab with Jiggs is by doing a pivot shorthop dair into grab. Or I could just not grab you at all and trick you into thinking I'm going to grab you. I'm not an amatuer who'd try to do the obvious run up and grab.
If I read you or you mess up, you still might end up getting locked. Or I can backroll and escape.

10character

 

[Jigglymaster]

10character

Zleda has a slower cool down time than Jigglypuff has. Also Jigglypuff isn't forced to land on the ground since shes floatier and has more jumps.

Also, its pointless talking about how we'd predict each other. Actually playing it out and posting are two completely different things.

 

[Chuee]

Zleda has a slower cool down time than Jigglypuff has. Also Jigglypuff isn't forced to land on the ground since shes floatier and has more jumps.

Also, its pointless talking about how we'd predict each other. Actually playing it out and posting are two completely different things.

Fair enough lol.
Though we'll most likely never play each other offline.

 

[Noobicidal]

@Noob.
If you don't have aything nice to say don't say anything.

Oh Guthix forbid if I offer a differing opinion.

obv your system is't working. It takes months to actually get a write up on something.

It's not working due to the player base here, not because of me personally. Whenever a slight bit of activity gets sparked in a match up thread, it lasts for around three posts, then devolves into a spamming troll-fest that puts UB to shame. It's not my job to create a write up in my perspective: My job is to collaborate the posts and information on both sides of each export to make a non-partisan and informative summary that new and old players alike will appreciate, and possibly learn from.

I've actually been doing something, i've actually been testing stuff. I've written write ups on characters that I have exerience with above average players of that character.

I do hope that you aren't implying that I haven't done anything. I really don't take too kindly to personal attacks.

If you have any serious problems with this, come to me, don't get mad and throw a hissy fit on here. I'm trying to help and make us a little bit better. As apathetic about these boards as you may be, i actually care and am trying.

To be honest, I really don't care if you do make another match up thread of sorts. What really irks me is that you were inconsiderate about its execution. If you perhaps, oh, I don't know, mentioned your new ideas for a better thread archetype to the guy who's currently in charge of this, then I wouldn't have had any problems with making arrangements to get you in control of it.

 

[T-block]

Is there any way you guys can collaborate on this?

Dapuffster seems to think the exact opposite of what I do when it comes to Jiggs lol... makes me feel dumb =(

 

[Noobicidal]

Is there any way you guys can collaborate on this?

The best thing to do as a community is to nitpick each and every inconsistency in all of the summaries, and strive to provide accurate information. Our lover's squabble can wait awhile. I'll see to it personally that the Ganon summary is corrected tomorrow, as important as it may be in the grand scheme of things.

Also, if the personal attack towards me was edited out of the OP, that'd be just lovely.

 

[T-block]

Mink, please do so. The OP should be kept looking professional =P

It should be a good thing that we have people willing to start this. If I may offer a suggestion: in order to keep discussion from degenerating, someone (thread leader or other) should actively promote discussion by asking questions, seeking clarifications, etc.

 

[Flayl]

I like how your basic instinct was to put Bowser at Jigg's advantage without any knowledge on the matchup. Good luck with the project anyway.

 

[Noobicidal]

Somewhat related, but I had an idea when I went outside. My series of threads aims for a neutral consensus between Puff mains and the respective character mains that we're discussing at the time, along with their input, and this thread is biased more or less towards Puff users, which isn't necessarily a bad thing. Mink's thread can focus more on the Puff aspect while my threads can keep their "everyone wins and no one is offended" attitude, assuming if Mink doesn't mind if Non-Puff mains keep their discussion in the current Compendium and associated Exports.

It's a bit redundant, but both threads serve their respective purposes.

 

[ItoI6]

I'll see to it personally that the Ganon summary is corrected tomorrow, as important as it may be in the grand scheme of things.

It isnt just ganon like half of those contradict minks list at the top.

Ike in minks list is a disadvantage but the summary says its neutral. Ness isnt even listed at the top. Mario's, Zelda's and samus' summary says neutral but is listed as disadvantage. Ganon and captain falcon are listed as advantage but the summary says neutral.

I disagree with a lot of'em too, like how we can go even with the vastly superior characters like falco and diddy and lose to zelda and mario.

Its almost its as if the high tier character mains didn't give any input into any of our matchup summaries so we can lowball the advantage they have over us, while you went with other low tier main's matchup opinions to look as though you weren't being completely biased.

But I digress, here's everything i disagree with, your opinion on left mine on right

Bowser Advantage->Disadvantage
Diddy Even->Disadvantage
Falco Even->Disadvantage
Fox Even->Disadvantage
Pokemon Trainer Even->Advantage
Pikachu Disadvantage->Even
Peach Disadvantage->Even
Mario Disadvantage->Even
Samus Disadvantage->Even
Zelda Disadvantage->Advantage

 

[-LzR-]

Flayl, I know that's true. But if you feel like being helpful, please give us your opinions on the MU.
We are not all great player or we haven't played against great players who are great in the MU so it's incredibly hard to gain anything without stupid amount of bias.

 

[Exegguter]

Oh whoops then.
but still I doubt the guy even plays any notable Lucas players.

Are you talking about me here or woody? If me, i could take your little lucas on anytime you want so could woody offline wifi or w.e, all you do is talk lose to everyone and act salty, also the replay was from 2010.

Also give mink some slack, all he wants to do is help which is never bad.

Though this is getting messy and is turning out to a flamefest while we're suppose to help eachother lmao,

Mink maybe it's a good idea to put videos of each mu on the op, for example now we're discussing lucas u could put 5 vids up offline play only?


Also woody is my bff

 

[Jigglymaster]

I like how your basic instinct was to put Bowser at Jigg's advantage without any knowledge on the matchup. Good luck with the project anyway.

I already told them that it was Bowser's Advantage not Jigglypuff's Advantage

Dapuffster seems to think the exact opposite of what I do when it comes to Jiggs lol... makes me feel dumb =(

Nah don't say that. Just because I'm ranked #1 as Jiggs doesn't mean I'm always right. Jigglypuff's metagame hasn't really been that well developed compared to alot of other characters and I'm not the best with Jiggs in every aspect of her, I'm just the best overall along with character matchup knowledge.



Also, I suggest we add slight advantage and slight disadvantage because there are a bunch of characters that slightly beat us like Diddy, Falco, and MK while there are characters that destroy us like Bowser, G&W, and Luigi.

 

[[FBC] Papa Mink]

Bowser Advantage->Disadvantage
Diddy Even->Disadvantage
Falco Even->Disadvantage
Fox Even->Disadvantage
Pokemon Trainer Even->Advantage
Pikachu Disadvantage->Even
Peach Disadvantage->Even
Mario Disadvantage->Even
Samus Disadvantage->Even
Zelda Disadvantage->Advantage

Workin' on the bowser one. I don't think we have a disadvantage to fox. Once we get to that discussion i'll work on fixing that, Noob, i'll take out the comment to you in the OP. I don't think PT is in our advantage because of squirtle... It's really hard. Also, Peach, is a really hard matchup for us, alot of projectiles, faster aerials. (with the exception of fair, which hits hard). As for the Low tiers, ie mario samus and zelda.... i'm not 100% what i put in the OP, but ill double check, i'm actually mid class right now. Sorry for all the typos and stuff. I'm doing my best.

I already told them that it was Bowser's Advantage not Jigglypuff's Advantage


Also, I suggest we add slight advantage and slight disadvantage because there are a bunch of characters that slightly beat us like Diddy, Falco, and MK while there are characters that destroy us like Bowser, G&W, and Luigi.

Okay, i can do the slight ad/dis. We need to first discuss which are which.

First lets do this.
Fox
Falco
PT
Marth

What do you guys think about MU? (Ad, Dis, Slight Ad, Slight Dis, NEU)
Also, All Low tiers... GO!

Haha, also. LEts do lucas. since that's been the main argument.
A) Moves you'll see, brief discussion of what it's used for and what it can combo into, and what to do against it

B) Aerials and how the work against ours

C) What percent they kill at, what percent WE can kill at

D) What advantages we have and what we should do in the matchup.

:D. Lets get to work guys! Let's work as a team on this one :D

 

[Chuee]

Are you talking about me here or woody? If me, i could take your little lucas on anytime you want so could woody offline wifi or w.e, all you do is talk lose to everyone and act salty, also the replay was from 2010.

Yes, because the wifi ladder means soo much.
Also January 2010 still doesn't count.
Try again maybe?

 

[GeneralWoodman]

Yes, because the wifi ladder means soo much.
Also January 2010 still doesn't count.
Try again maybe?

Dates have been counted far before you were born...your opinion/saltiness will not change the course of time.

 

[Exegguter]

Yes, because the wifi ladder means soo much.
Also January 2010 still doesn't count.
Try again maybe?

Let's see it was... june 2010 or have you become pro in the last 7 months? I DOUBT it.....
Try me, play me anytime you want and I'll gimp your little lucas so you can come here again and talk about how pro your recovery is... Lmao

 

[[FBC] Papa Mink]

Dates have been counted far before you were born...your opinion/saltiness will not change the course of time.

Mink approves of this statement


you've been awarded the 5 jigglypuffs. It's a great honor.

 

[-LzR-]

Please, please, enough of this. We are trying to do something about our pathetic character, don't interrupt us.

 

[[FBC] Papa Mink]

Who's gonna do the recon for lucas' kill moves?
Fsmash
Usmash
Uair
Last hit of Dair (spike)
Back throw
Does Nair Kill?
Fair

Someone do that for me, lzr?

 

[-LzR-]

His killmoves?

Well I think his best is dthrow and backthrow doesn't kill.
His smashes are generally slow and unrelible so I wouldn't count those.
Nair doesn't kill.
Uair can kill us at higher % of near ceiling.
Dair spike isn't realiable, you can SDI.
Fair can kill too.
Oh and after about 120% his ftilt is a good killmove, it's pretty fast.

And of course the stupid PKT2 gimmicks.

 

[[FBC] Papa Mink]

Ah the PKT2

Wanna do a percent run on those for me?

We need a system, where someone will do the research for the kill moves (percents),
Someone will look up the DI on the moves / frames they come out
and then we as a community will work together on working out what to do in prep for each move we'll see in the match

by using this system we can get matchups done faster and break it down easier, and it'll be a fun process for our community. what do you guys think?

 

[GeneralWoodman]

Lucas will land some fsmash kills for sure...his other smashes are more dependent on how the mindgame used is set up.

 

[[FBC] Papa Mink]

Okay, i'll take the first step

Moves That Lucas Kills With:

Ftilt -> Fsmash: Kills at 75% without DI.
Usmash: kills at 60% reliably
Uthrow kills at 123%
Fair, from center of FD doesn't kill until around 140%, off the edge itll kill mush cearlier, i'd say 100% if not 90.
Uair kills at 120%
PKT2 won't kill till around 120%
Utilt kills at 135%
Ftilt kills around 144%

Now someone do the opposite for me?
We need to know Dash attack, Utilt, Fair, Usmash, Fsmash, Rollout, Rest. Anything i forgot?

 

[-LzR-]

Uthrow sucks, no Lucas is ever going to use it. It's downthrow.

 

[teluoborg]

Just so you know, if you're lying on the ground (not likely to happen with Jiggs but w/e) Lucas can Dtilt reset you to Usmash.

A common combo is FH Dair > last hit spikes you on the ground, and if you don't tech > Dtilt > Usmash.

So yeah, tech those ground spikes.

Also this is the best thread I've seen in a long time on these boards, good work Mink.

 

[T-block]

Why are we discussing Lucas? He's one of the few characters we've done =\

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=282172

 

[[FBC] Papa Mink]

Hahahaha. Probably should have checked the boards for that lmao.
You win this round T-block.

Seriously though. Someone get me those kill percents and i'll just link the export thread to the Lucas section.


PLEEEASE :D

 

[Chuee]

Let's see it was... june 2010 or have you become pro in the last 7 months? I DOUBT it.....
Try me, play me anytime you want and I'll gimp your little lucas so you can come here again and talk about how pro your recovery is... Lmao

lol keep being cocky son.

 

[[FBC] Papa Mink]

Chuee.
Just realize that no one can beat jigglypuff and stop trolling

 

[Chuee]

Chuee.
Just realize that jigglypuff can't beat anyone and stop trolling

fixed

 

[[FBC] Papa Mink]

STOP TROLlING MY THREEEEEEEAD

 

[[FBC] Papa Mink]

So.....

No one got those percents eh?

Well, i posted lucas in the OP.

Let's discuss,

Link
LULZ

 

[Jigglymaster]

How bout instead of a novelty character that we'll hardly ever see in tournament, lets talk about somebody more practical and still gives me a bit of trouble such as Marth.

 

[[FBC] Papa Mink]

Sure i'm down.
Wanna give your best write up you can?

 

[GeneralWoodman]

Links just runaway and use full hop bomb tricks the whole match. Its an even match-up if you just stay close and don't do anything risky. Link shouldn't be landing smashes...if he is, then play safer.

marth isn't THAT hard...you can force him to zone you in a way that can be punished by full hopping in opposite directions while swaying in and out. You can punish the fairs he throws out with dash attack or your own fair. Watch out for up b oos and know the end lag of his moves well and you'll do fine

 

[[FBC] Papa Mink]

ROLLOUT :D
OOS Up B's are MAD common. It's annoying. Though you can be spaced REALLLY Easy by marth...

btw guys, this diddy kong has been telling me for the past semester or two that my jigglypuff is ****, and if he picked up a low tier he could be ranked as the best too.

And i'm about to get pissed.
We're going to be at the same tourney this weekend, and i'm seeing him in bracket NO DOUBT

I better win.
For pride.
For jigglies worldwide.
For you. My brothers.

Spoiler

This man's about to become combo video status

 

[EraOfGames]

You should practice Jigglypuff dittos, just in case. Also in Jigglypuff dittos, like every move is a kill move LOL