![[FBC] Papa Mink](/data/avatars/l/166/166410.jpg?1363023093){kind=avatar}
[FBC] Papa Mink
Smash Legend
At the bottom of each discussion I would like to post URL's to matches. Before you come in and start bashing. Please look through what i've written. If it's a certain something that was stated, it can be changed. Alot of work went into this. Some information is a bit older, if it's wrong just tell me.. If you'd like to make a suggestion for the layout, tell me that too. I Thought having it's own thread would be best unless you wanted to somehow collaborate with the MU thread? I'm going to bed. It's 5am.
For In The Matchup Discussion:
Red means Disadvatage
Green means Advantage
Blue means Neutral
Neutral
---Summary---
This is one of the matches you will have to play in the air the WHOLE game. You must stay in the air because if you’re on the ground and you get hit by a banana, you’re in for trouble. Jigglypuff is a 50/50 on the Diddy boards and that’s quite an accomplishment. We can gimp like no ones business, and since we limit their ground game to being in the air most of the game, we can do good. Just keep your ground game to a minimum. Jigglymaster will be able to help a lot with this portion as well. By the way, pound and Fair beat almost everything diddy has in the air. Nair beats Diddy Flip. Remember that for this whole summary.
“Diddy: Lucky for you cause this is my 2nd favorite matchup in the game (1st being Jiggs vs MK). I love this matchup so much because I main both of these characters and I have played both sides of the matchup before and I prefer to be Jigglypuff vs Diddy instead of the oppsoite. This matchup somewhere between 4:6 Diddy's Favor or Even. Everyone hates Diddy's bananas, but Jigglypuff doesn't, because of her arieal molbility, her 6 jumps, and pound, she will never have to worry about tripping from bananas. Most diddy mains rely banana combos to get their kills and when they can't they don't know what to do. However, a diddy that knows the matchup can actually beat Jigglypuff in the air with his own moves such as F air and B foward. Jigglypuff can make better usage of the bananas than Diddy can in this match so it makes the matchup even if he pulls them out. Another thing Jigglypuff has on Diddy in this match is that she can gimp him easily. Most diddy's do b foward, second jump, to up b to recover. Constantly stop his b foward with a n air, f air, or b air and then intercept his up B to kill him. Or grab one of his bananas and hit him out of his up b.”
1. Dsmash will kill at 110% from center stage.
2.Fsmash kills at 100%.(DI OUTTT)
3.Dsmash kills at 123-ish.
4.Fair kills at 120 from Mid-Side stage.
5.Uair kills at 140-ish.
6.Fair kills at 135-ish offstage. Spikes hard around 100.
7.Uthrow will kill around 210%
8.F/Bthrow will kill around 200%
1. Rollout kills at 90%
2. Rest will kill at 75%
3. Usmash will kill at 128%
4. Fsmash will kill at 105%
5. Utilt will kill at 124%
6. Fair kills at 120% from center stage.
1. The only projectile problem we have is bananas, which wouldn’t be too hard. Learn to instant toss projectiles. Grab items with grab, it stops any animation besides the pickup. If you want to instant throw, directly when you airdodge use the c-stick to direct which way to throw the item. This can work in midair or even when you’re landing over an item.
2. Gimping!!!!! Watch for the flip, nair it, nair it, nair it. Once they stop being horizontal with the stage they will try to do the barrel/jump. Just be used to it. Get ready. Nairs all day. When you approach them from the side and you haven’t gotten close enough to nair and you want to take them away from the stage, I find using a forward facing dair works well to bring them from the stage as well as hit them. You’ll also stay with them and be ready to combo into a nair.
3. Stay in the air! The whole game! Only land for surprise Dairs, grabs, and to reset your jumps. It’s really hard to do this. Dair / rising pound are your best friends.
4. When you get a banana, take it and pound around for a while or throw it off the stage and get ready to punish didy for when he pulls one. Or make a habit of instant throwing it back at him and following with a pound. :D
Good luck guys.
“Diddy: Lucky for you cause this is my 2nd favorite matchup in the game (1st being Jiggs vs MK). I love this matchup so much because I main both of these characters and I have played both sides of the matchup before and I prefer to be Jigglypuff vs Diddy instead of the oppsoite. This matchup somewhere between 4:6 Diddy's Favor or Even. Everyone hates Diddy's bananas, but Jigglypuff doesn't, because of her arieal molbility, her 6 jumps, and pound, she will never have to worry about tripping from bananas. Most diddy mains rely banana combos to get their kills and when they can't they don't know what to do. However, a diddy that knows the matchup can actually beat Jigglypuff in the air with his own moves such as F air and B foward. Jigglypuff can make better usage of the bananas than Diddy can in this match so it makes the matchup even if he pulls them out. Another thing Jigglypuff has on Diddy in this match is that she can gimp him easily. Most diddy's do b foward, second jump, to up b to recover. Constantly stop his b foward with a n air, f air, or b air and then intercept his up B to kill him. Or grab one of his bananas and hit him out of his up b.”
---Moves To Watch Out For---
-Dash Attack-
This attack is without a doubt, broken. It hits for a stupid amount of time, multiple times and then has very little ending lag. Wait til the 4th/5th hit to shield grab it. Though, you shouldn’t be hit by this since you’ll be in the air… Right??!-Downtilt- (Comes out on frame 4)
The main time you’ll see this attack is if you’re hanging on the edge, or if you’re at low percents in which case they can chain one or two of these together to hit you. At high percents it’ll be able to knock you back and create set ups to kill you at very high percents. This move is spammable and has a good amount of priority. Learn not to challenge Diddy’s ground game. AIR. AIR.
-Utilt comes out on frame 6-
This move is also spammable and is a good kill move in Diddy’s arsenal. Avoid. CAUTION. He’ll use it to knock you out of rollout, if you’re shielding and he’s spamming your shield with it, and just to challenge you to come close. Bad idea.
-Peanuts are annoying-
Peanuts can be a *****. They don’t cause much damage and you can instant throw them back for a solid 5%. If you’re being spammed peanuts and you’re trying to plank / camp on the edge and you feel like they’re going to gimp you, just backup, use pound toward the ledge and repeat. This created enough invulnerability frames after the ledge grab, and pound keeps you protected enough to grab it.
-Fmsash hits on frame 12-
It’s one of Diddy’s main kill moves, but can be DI’ed so practice the DI on it, go in towards diddy and up. Do if you’re being attacked from the left side, go left and up with both sticks, you’ll get hit by the first hit but not the second. This will most likely be hit when you’re shielding near him or if he hits you with a banana.
-Dsmash is broken and hits on s 6 and 15-
Dsmash is mad broken, comes out on frame 6 with ******** kill potential, and space. If he hits you with a bana on the edge, expect this no doubt. Most diddy’s save this attack for the kill because Fsmash can be DI’ed and he’s been staling Fair to hit you in the air. What do you want me to say? Don’t land on the ground. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Diddy’s Aerials
-Uair comes ot on frame 3-
This attack isn’t used too often, but why are you above diddy for a long enough period to get hit by this? It’ll kill so watch out for it. It however has 50 frames total, so a lot of ending lag. Just.. avoid it. See below for gimping.-Bair comes out on frame 5-
Bair is a good move and can also be used for kills. These can be autocancelled when hit the ground for multiple back airs in a row. If he’s hitting you with these then you are either On the ground… or he is approaching you backwards which you can punish. Pound wins. -Fair… frame 6-
This attack is also broken. Basically Diddy extends both of his legs together to create one giant hitbox with little to no hurtbox. Which, is ridiculous and stupid. Wait for it, and then punish it. You will know diddy will ALWAYS use this against you in the air, that or he’s going to try to diddy flip, which you can dodge and then kill him. Obviously if he jumps at you backwards he isn’t going to forward air… Use common sense.-Dair comes out on frame 13-
Spikes really hard, avoid this. Though it has 57 frames total, so a lot of cooldown. If you’re hanging on the edge or recovering expect diddy to do this to you. Practice where your rising pound will allow you to hit on the edge before you can’t latch on, you’ll be surprised how close you can be. If you use more than 3 jumps, you WILL die when spiked with this.
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-Diddy Flip comes out on frame 12/16 for hump-
This is going to be diddy’s primary way to get back on after you knock them off. It gives them A LOT of horizontal distance, but can be interrupted with literally every move… but maybe uair if you’re going from the side. Lol. Just nair, it’ll hit them. After this, they’ll try to jump… And then barrels. (Next)
-Barrels-
The barrels can be slightly hard to deal with. Not because they kill, (Which they WILL spike if you’re on the bottom side of them) but because the timing can be hard to gimp them. Wait for the animation to start coming and then drop a nair. Don’t go down there trying to hit them when they’re charging them because you’ll waste jumps, potentially miss, get spiked. That’s happened to me in tourney and it really sucks… to say the least. When you hit them out of barrels it’s incredibly/next to impossible for them to recover when below the stage.
Moves that kill:
1. Dsmash will kill at 110% from center stage.
2.Fsmash kills at 100%.(DI OUTTT)
3.Dsmash kills at 123-ish.
4.Fair kills at 120 from Mid-Side stage.
5.Uair kills at 140-ish.
6.Fair kills at 135-ish offstage. Spikes hard around 100.
7.Uthrow will kill around 210%
8.F/Bthrow will kill around 200%
Moves to kill with:
1. Rollout kills at 90%
2. Rest will kill at 75%
3. Usmash will kill at 128%
4. Fsmash will kill at 105%
5. Utilt will kill at 124%
6. Fair kills at 120% from center stage.
---Jigglypuff’s Advatages---
1. The only projectile problem we have is bananas, which wouldn’t be too hard. Learn to instant toss projectiles. Grab items with grab, it stops any animation besides the pickup. If you want to instant throw, directly when you airdodge use the c-stick to direct which way to throw the item. This can work in midair or even when you’re landing over an item.
2. Gimping!!!!! Watch for the flip, nair it, nair it, nair it. Once they stop being horizontal with the stage they will try to do the barrel/jump. Just be used to it. Get ready. Nairs all day. When you approach them from the side and you haven’t gotten close enough to nair and you want to take them away from the stage, I find using a forward facing dair works well to bring them from the stage as well as hit them. You’ll also stay with them and be ready to combo into a nair.
3. Stay in the air! The whole game! Only land for surprise Dairs, grabs, and to reset your jumps. It’s really hard to do this. Dair / rising pound are your best friends.
4. When you get a banana, take it and pound around for a while or throw it off the stage and get ready to punish didy for when he pulls one. Or make a habit of instant throwing it back at him and following with a pound. :D
Good luck guys.
Neutral
---Summary---
I don’t’ believe Falco has an advantage over Jigglypuff in this matchup. Falco is fairly lightweight so he can die easily around 100%. He has ranged attacks ie reflector and lasers but the reflector shouldn’t come out often against us, and we can duck lasers if we need to. One of Falco’s biggest gimmicks is the chain grab.. which doesn’t work on jigglypuff. He can tech chase us by knowing where we are going to go after the downthrow but that’s it.
Falco also cannot kill very easily which a lot of people may disagree with. Falco has three kill moves if you’re under the 115% range. You can find them below in the moves that kill range. Next to the kill potential moves I put what percent they will kill you at WITHOUT DI. Falco’s recovery is very poor and leaves them open for an easy opportunity for them to get gimped. Finally, Falco’s aerials are below average and jigglypuff beats falco in the air.
---Moves To Watch Out For---
Jab -> Grab
–Jab comes out on Frame 2-
A Very common falco technique is the jab to grab combo. At low percents the grab can lead to a variety of things. For example it can lead to:
--Regrab if you airdodge or decide to land and shield. Or if you try to land behind them.
--Another jab.
--DACUS
It’s not nearly as good as marth’s follow ups but Falco does have many options. The best thing I have found after being Downthrown is to simply float off. Throughout the entire match you have time to get back in falco’s face. You have no need to land back on the ground for another grab. Get above falco. Falco’s aerial game should scare him off into not chasing you.
A Very common falco technique is the jab to grab combo. At low percents the grab can lead to a variety of things. For example it can lead to:
--Regrab if you airdodge or decide to land and shield. Or if you try to land behind them.
--Another jab.
--DACUS
It’s not nearly as good as marth’s follow ups but Falco does have many options. The best thing I have found after being Downthrown is to simply float off. Throughout the entire match you have time to get back in falco’s face. You have no need to land back on the ground for another grab. Get above falco. Falco’s aerial game should scare him off into not chasing you.
Lasers
Lasers can be very hard to deal with, but if you know what you are doing they shouldn’t give you that much trouble. For one, falco’s lasers ALWAYS make you face towards them when in the air. So Bair approaching is going to be difficult. You can duck the lasers but that might lead to falco shooting repetitive lasers over your head. At this point you have 4 options that I have discovered. Decide which works best for your situation:
1. Shield and powershield dash your way to get in falco’s face.
2. Shield and allow the lasers to push you safely onto the ledge where you will have ledge invincibility, thus not being hurt.
3. Time a jump (when the lasers directly above you) to jump between lasers.
4. Take a laser to the face.
5. Floating beats lasers. So use that to your advantage
2. Shield and allow the lasers to push you safely onto the ledge where you will have ledge invincibility, thus not being hurt.
3. Time a jump (when the lasers directly above you) to jump between lasers.
4. Take a laser to the face.
5. Floating beats lasers. So use that to your advantage
DACUS/Usmash
–First hitbox comes out on frame 8-
The Dacus is a kill move for sure. For those who don’t know what a DACUS is, it’s a dash attack cancelled upsmash. Which is another term for an upsmash that slides from halfway across the stage. (mortar slide). A common way for Falco to use the dacus is after a SH’ed laser, buffered into a DACUS so the hitstun will allow for a safe hit from falcos upsmash. The Usmash does lose kill potential. Especially once you start hitting the 80-90 area and Falco is looking for that kill. You can punish the Dacus with a shield->SH -> Nair/Fair. Another choice is pound, though the ending lag when it hits falco’s shield can lead to an OOS usmash.
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The Dacus is a kill move for sure. For those who don’t know what a DACUS is, it’s a dash attack cancelled upsmash. Which is another term for an upsmash that slides from halfway across the stage. (mortar slide). A common way for Falco to use the dacus is after a SH’ed laser, buffered into a DACUS so the hitstun will allow for a safe hit from falcos upsmash. The Usmash does lose kill potential. Especially once you start hitting the 80-90 area and Falco is looking for that kill. You can punish the Dacus with a shield->SH -> Nair/Fair. Another choice is pound, though the ending lag when it hits falco’s shield can lead to an OOS usmash.
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Falco’s Aerials: Don't Be Scared
Bair
Nair
–first hits out on frame 3-
is mostly used for pressure with short hops. At least as far as I’VE seen it used. On battlefield for example, Falco’s will SH through the platforms to Nair shield pressure or to force you off of the platform. Don’t try to beat it because the only move we could try to use is Dair and it’s not worth taking percents.
Fair
–first hits out on frame 6-
Never used. Be embarrassed when it hits you.
Dair
–first hits out on frame 5-
Used as a spike mostly. Don’t be predictable coming up off of the edge because he can punish you with it. If the falco has been “spike happy” try going in from the side, go down and rise up far enough Falco won’t want to come get you.
–first hits out on frame 4-
The back air is one of Falco’s kill moves. It’s a sex kick. It comes out on frame 4 and the opening frames will kill. While the sex kick is lingering it doesn’t have kill potential just minor knockback. Just counter it with pound or go around it. It’s a hard move to land.
The back air is one of Falco’s kill moves. It’s a sex kick. It comes out on frame 4 and the opening frames will kill. While the sex kick is lingering it doesn’t have kill potential just minor knockback. Just counter it with pound or go around it. It’s a hard move to land.
Nair
–first hits out on frame 3-
is mostly used for pressure with short hops. At least as far as I’VE seen it used. On battlefield for example, Falco’s will SH through the platforms to Nair shield pressure or to force you off of the platform. Don’t try to beat it because the only move we could try to use is Dair and it’s not worth taking percents.
Fair
–first hits out on frame 6-
Never used. Be embarrassed when it hits you.
Dair
–first hits out on frame 5-
Used as a spike mostly. Don’t be predictable coming up off of the edge because he can punish you with it. If the falco has been “spike happy” try going in from the side, go down and rise up far enough Falco won’t want to come get you.
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Fmash
–Hits on frame 16-18-
It’s used to tech chase or punish a predictable roll. It’ll only kill past 100%. Don’t worry too much over this one. Pound will beat it out. Just remember the hitbox on it is stupidly big, and on the backside. The ending lag is pretty hard on this attack. SH nair will be a good move to space.
–Hits on frame 16-18-
It’s used to tech chase or punish a predictable roll. It’ll only kill past 100%. Don’t worry too much over this one. Pound will beat it out. Just remember the hitbox on it is stupidly big, and on the backside. The ending lag is pretty hard on this attack. SH nair will be a good move to space.
Phantasm
This is one of Falco’s recovery moves. All attacks can hit through phantasm when timed correctly. Personally, I choose to use either pound or nair. If you it the nair, you can follow up with another nair or Fair depending on the percent. If it’s a higher percent the Fair should kill. Just know that Falco’s have a hard time getting back to the stage. Once you nair the phantasm they are going to try to do another one. Or at least drop down and try to use another one. Plan for this and punish it. This attack is the easiest to gimp Falco with.
Moves that kill:
1. Bair will kill from center stage of Final D at 135% without DI. It will kill offstage (while you are recovering) at 100%.
2. Fsmash will kill at 100% from center stage.
3. Usmash/Dacus will kill at 95%.
4. Utilt kills around the same time as Usmash.
Moves to kill with:
1. Utilt kills at 125%2. From center final D, Fair kills at 113%
3. Rest will kill at 72%
4. Fsmash will kill at 100%
5. Usmash will kill at 104%
6. Rolllout will kill at 75%
---Jigglypuff’s Advatages---
1.Punishing phantasm.
This is probably my favorite part of the matchup. Not only does this make the match more difficult for falco but it discourages falcos from chasing you on the sides of the stage. One bad screw up, regardless of perfent and they are dead.
2. Laser game.
Since we are an aerial character we can do well against the lasers. We can also duck below the lasers. They are still a pain but it’s something that every character has to deal with and we have a slight advantage over other characters.
3. Grab game.
Jigglypuff has great grab game. Her grab reach is awesome compared to other low tier characters and all throws do 10%, with 3% pummels. Punish short hopped Dairs or misplaces smashes with a backthrow and then punish them off the edge.
4. Grab release to death.
This is not as easy to do. But it’s useful. When Falco is short hopping his lasers if you can manage to dash grab him and hold him over the edge until he is grab released the only thing that he can do is fire-falco. The phantasm will be released underneath the stage so he will die. Time the fire falco correctly and edgehog him.
---Jiggly Vs Falco videos---
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0E6U9U6Zps http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GeSdZu8ZHRo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OPs7zaHeOOs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8C9Uf95Ml_o
Neutral
---Summary---
I believe that we are neutral in this match. His aerials, those being his Uair and Bair out prioritize / out space a lot of our moves (not pound!). If you wait for the right moment you can diagonally dair drill down though him as a safe way to the stage. But only if he is approaching you from below. If you see him going for an Uair then just wait and then Dair near the ending lag. For Bair approaches you can either catch the ending lag with a N/B/Fair or try to punish it with a DACUS depending on the height.
Most wolf’s will use Bair a tremendous amount. So just be prepared to see a lot of them. The laser will hit you whether your ducking or not so don’t bother. Crouching isn’t very useful in this matchup. However, pound is one of the most effective moves in this matchup. If you see a Bair coming or know a short hop is approaching you can throw pound out. The hit lag from pound and the fast fall of wolf make a great combo in your favor.
Most wolf’s will use Bair a tremendous amount. So just be prepared to see a lot of them. The laser will hit you whether your ducking or not so don’t bother. Crouching isn’t very useful in this matchup. However, pound is one of the most effective moves in this matchup. If you see a Bair coming or know a short hop is approaching you can throw pound out. The hit lag from pound and the fast fall of wolf make a great combo in your favor.
---Moves to watch out for---
Back Air
Very effective aerial. Bair approach is not an uncommon thing for a wolf player to use.
--Hitbox comes out on frame 5--
--Hitbox comes out on frame 5--
Scar
Watch for wolf’s side B move. This is a move that not only has kill potential but has a sweet spot that will spike you. It’s wolf’s diagonal recovery. If you’re near the beginning frames of the move it works much like phantasm. You can Nair it very effectively. If you don’t think you can gimp the move for sure DON’T DO IT. You’ll get punished and potentially spiked if you don’t space it correctly. The Scar can also go through the stage on certain stages. AKA Smashville, Battlefield, Yoshi’s but NOT final D. Keep that in mind. You can also attack him while he’s scarring the stage if you make a good read, pound seems to work best.
Startup lag is 1-12
The frame in which he begins to fly is 13.
Startup lag is 1-12
The frame in which he begins to fly is 13.
Wolf’s DACUS
The move is pretty predictable but if it hits you it definitely works as a kill move when you’re at high percents so watch out for it.
Hitbox comes out on 11 and 23.
Hitbox comes out on 11 and 23.
Wolf’s Fsmash
It’s hard for wolf to kill with this move and it’s an attack that can be shielded and punished incredibly easily. Immediately when the first hit touches your shield you can plan your next attack. If he does the attack next to you within pound range) you can know that the second hit will end behind you. So you can plan on grabbing or OOSing. Jigglypuff’s best OOS in this case is Bair or Dair.
Hitbox comes out on frame 6 and 15(For the second hit).
It’s hard for wolf to kill with this move and it’s an attack that can be shielded and punished incredibly easily. Immediately when the first hit touches your shield you can plan your next attack. If he does the attack next to you within pound range) you can know that the second hit will end behind you. So you can plan on grabbing or OOSing. Jigglypuff’s best OOS in this case is Bair or Dair.
Hitbox comes out on frame 6 and 15(For the second hit).
Dsmash
This is the reason you don’t spot dodge next to wolf. You should keep the majority of your game floating around unless you’re waiting or baiting an attack. Dsmash can kill you at 90 percent when fresh.
Hitbox comes out on frame 7.
This is the reason you don’t spot dodge next to wolf. You should keep the majority of your game floating around unless you’re waiting or baiting an attack. Dsmash can kill you at 90 percent when fresh.
Hitbox comes out on frame 7.
Moves that kill:
Dsmash will kill at 100%
Fair will kill at 100% when in the air
Bair will kill at 115%+ reliably
Usmash (Dacus) will kill at 110% reliably
Rollout will kill at 70%
Rest will kill at 83%
Fair will kill at 90% offstage reliably
Utilt will kill at 135%
So will Usmash.
1. Ability to gimp. All of Wolf’s recoverys require a lot of startup frames. And actually the vertical recovery can only move in ONE direction which makes a pretty poor recovery and easily edge hog-able. Below I posted a video showing how to use that to your advantage. The gimp begins at 3:11.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3bph3zUM4Q
2. Grab game. A lot of wolf’s ground attacks can lead to great grab game. Each pummel does 3% and a fresh throw will do 10%. So in the beginning of the match use F,U or D throw. Save B throw for around the 60% range. That’s’ when you’ll want to be baiting him to attack you near an edge. Unless you’re the type to run up and buffer a Fthrow.
viii. Pound. That in itself is a advantage. The hitbox on that move is greater than the hurtbox of other attacks wolf has. Such as start up lags of Fsmash, most tilts. If you notice an approach and you aren’t in any kind of setup for a combo or grab…. Pound.
3. I feel that no one notices this combo when it comes to fast falling or heavy characters. It’s called the Uair Uair Uair Uair… Uair rest…. It’s highly improbably at the percent in the video. But you’ll see what I mean. If you can manage to do it at 15-30% it’ll hit. Or if the person is stupid you can hit this on faster falling characters. This also works well on characters such as DK or DDD or Bowser.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQyawUDMyXk
Note: This isn’t just for wolf. This is a good tactic overall I feel no one uses.
4. One of the final comments is the Space Animal Slaughter.Not as useful as in melee, but if you’re in the lead by a life and they have a fresh one and you can manage, 2 Utilts to rest will hit. Which will immediately give 60%.
Jiggly vs Wolf Matches:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5Wz-7tcJBQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3bph3zUM4Q
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TbOEwg8Hvsg
Fair will kill at 100% when in the air
Bair will kill at 115%+ reliably
Usmash (Dacus) will kill at 110% reliably
Moves that kill:
Rollout will kill at 70%
Rest will kill at 83%
Fair will kill at 90% offstage reliably
Utilt will kill at 135%
So will Usmash.
---Jigglypuff Advantages ---
1. Ability to gimp. All of Wolf’s recoverys require a lot of startup frames. And actually the vertical recovery can only move in ONE direction which makes a pretty poor recovery and easily edge hog-able. Below I posted a video showing how to use that to your advantage. The gimp begins at 3:11.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3bph3zUM4Q
2. Grab game. A lot of wolf’s ground attacks can lead to great grab game. Each pummel does 3% and a fresh throw will do 10%. So in the beginning of the match use F,U or D throw. Save B throw for around the 60% range. That’s’ when you’ll want to be baiting him to attack you near an edge. Unless you’re the type to run up and buffer a Fthrow.
viii. Pound. That in itself is a advantage. The hitbox on that move is greater than the hurtbox of other attacks wolf has. Such as start up lags of Fsmash, most tilts. If you notice an approach and you aren’t in any kind of setup for a combo or grab…. Pound.
3. I feel that no one notices this combo when it comes to fast falling or heavy characters. It’s called the Uair Uair Uair Uair… Uair rest…. It’s highly improbably at the percent in the video. But you’ll see what I mean. If you can manage to do it at 15-30% it’ll hit. Or if the person is stupid you can hit this on faster falling characters. This also works well on characters such as DK or DDD or Bowser.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQyawUDMyXk
Note: This isn’t just for wolf. This is a good tactic overall I feel no one uses.
4. One of the final comments is the Space Animal Slaughter.Not as useful as in melee, but if you’re in the lead by a life and they have a fresh one and you can manage, 2 Utilts to rest will hit. Which will immediately give 60%.
Jiggly vs Wolf Matches:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5Wz-7tcJBQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3bph3zUM4Q
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TbOEwg8Hvsg
Neutral
---Summary---
I feel that Ike has advantage over us. His jab cancel/jab in general is nasty and his Fair has a lot of range. His recovery is less than average but he makes up for it in power. His Nair and Fair are both really big hitboxes. ESPECIALLY Fair. The hardest part of this match is going to be getting Ike off the edge. Luckily we can escape the jab cancel because of how light we are.
Basically, try to get Ike off the stage the whole match. Try not to be above him. A great thing about Ike is how much cooldown like all his moves have. Just force Ike to have to approach you, don't go to him. That way it's much easier to read what attacks are coming, and you;re grab game will be easier to use than going after HIM. This match Is very tough for jigglypuff because we cannot accurately rely on aerials the whole game, and this match revolves around punishing rather than playing offensively.
Basically, try to get Ike off the stage the whole match. Try not to be above him. A great thing about Ike is how much cooldown like all his moves have. Just force Ike to have to approach you, don't go to him. That way it's much easier to read what attacks are coming, and you;re grab game will be easier to use than going after HIM. This match Is very tough for jigglypuff because we cannot accurately rely on aerials the whole game, and this match revolves around punishing rather than playing offensively.
Jigglymaster: " This might seem like an easy match for Jigglypuff, but its not. Its tough, really tough. You might think its easy to kill Ike because his recovery is bad right? Well you have to knock him off first and thats what the hard part is. His F air covers so much range along with the Jab makes it almost impossible for you to approach him. One of the things that gives Jigglypuff the upperhand is the stage selection, your good on a lot of stages and hes bad on a lot of them. For example at a low tier tourny I was in against M2K's Ike he would beat my Jiggs rounds 1 and 3 but on round 2 when I took him to Japes he gave up because he told me it was impossible for Ike to win that match due to the fact that he was force to approach me (note this is Jigglys best stage imo) Probably 65:35 Ike's Favor"
---Moves to look out for---
Jab
Ikes jab can be very nasty from the jab cancel but luckily we are jigglypuff so we dont get locked in and we can Smash DI out of it. The full jab combo has some good knockback so be careful. Out of the jab cancel he can buffer a Dtilt which is a good mixup. Ikes ground game is a lot better than ours though his air game is not to be played with either. A lot of his aerials can outspace ours easily if you're not smart about it.
All tilts
Man, Ike has a lot of power. His Utilt, Dtilt and Ftilt are all kill moves. All of them. Utilt has the leas amount of lag out of all the tilts. Ftilt will kill the easiest and Dtilt will send you straight up. I don't even know what I can say to counter this. If you get Ftilts, don't try to Shield grab, just retreat and reapproach. Do your best to utilize Dash attack and DACUS during this match to punish for the cooldown of the tilts. Also, at the right angle, Dtilt can spike you as you're recovering much like Pit and Peach's dtilt. Punish them all the same.. short hop to NBFair or dash attack..It's the best options. You don't have too many of them.
Fsmash.
The forward smash has the most knockback out of any attack in the whole game. It's up there next to DDD's Fsmash as well. Do. Not. Challenge it. You'll regret it. It can kill at very low percents but it has a very bad ending lag, like most of Ike's move. If you see Ike charging a Fsmash or you know one is coming because you've baited it then punish with a SH aerial or a grab. Even a DACUS/Dash attack depending on the percents. If he's at a high percent then you should use your dash attack because it will potentially kill him, knock him off the edge and give you the ability to stop his recovery Also it kills you when you're on the edge.
Usmash
The Usmash will also kill at very early percents. It has A LOT of ending lag though... Ike in general has very bad ending lag. Don't try to Dair approach from straigt above because either the Utilt, Uair, or Usmash is going to come out and none of them is worth it. The only time you should Dair is when you are on the ground OOSing or Shield hopping. Remember, there's also a hitbox on Ike's backside so rolling behind him is not going to help.. Just punish after the attack.
Side B / Down B
The side B is a recovery move as well as an attack. It comes very fast and can be held infinitely. Pound will beat this attack however which is a reason you should be able to win when Ike's recovering. The Side B will take Ike the length of 2/3's of Final D. After this attack is used in air Ike cannot attack or jump. The Down B parry is another reason that Ike can win this matchup. The parry can kill us at Mid-High percents and Ike can counter our roll attack. You can bait the parry and then punish him with a simple roll or Dash attack.
Neutral B
This attack has super armor so be careful when you are trying to punish this one. This is an easy kill for Ike, though it hurts him when he uses it. The ending lag... you guessed it! It's bad. He can't hold this attack like the side B, because after an allotted amount of time it releases automatically dealing Ike 10% damage. Keep your distance... and then punish. DON’T BE A HERO. This attack is degrading and extremely dangerous. Especially when it is charged. Ike's tend to charge it when they are coming down to the ground because of the super armor and kill potential.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
---Aerials!---
Fair
Fair can kill rather easily and the giant hitbox makes it very hard to approach Ike when he's aerially approaching you. The landing lag from this move is huge so wait for it... wait for it... get him.
Nair
Nair has a big hotbox too, making it once again hard to counter Ike in the air. If you must, try to wait til the ending frames to use a pound attack or a Fair. That’s your best bet.
Uair
Uair will kill rather easily. At low percents, IE 75+ depending on where on the stage you are. If you're near the ceiling and Ike's approaching you with a Uair from below... Good luck..
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Annoying Recovery (UP+B)
I'm actually not sure how to counter or punish the recovery with the exception of if Ike accidentally lands on top of the stage. The Spinning sword can spike you and pull you in as well. The sword goes through the stage and can mess you up from there. You can always cliffhog if you time it correctly, though if you have an Ike that is planking you with his Up+B attack it makes it very difficult to beat that. Just wait for Ike to come back on the stage...
Like I said, this match is all about punishing.
---Moves That Kill--
Fsmash - Kills at 50% from center of Final D
Utilt - Kills at 83%
Ftilt - kills at 80%
Dtilt - kill at 95%
Neutral B - When at full power and it hits you directly this attack will kill you at 8%... 8.
Neautral B (not charged) - kills at 100.
Usmash - kills at 70 uncharged.
SideB - kills at high 90's+ when fully charged.
Uair - kills at 65%
Fair - kills at 85-90% offstage.
Moves that will kill:
Rest will kill at 78%
Fair will kill at 130%
Rollout will kill at 85%
Utilt will kill at 145%
Dash attack wont kill from center past 150% On the edge around 120%
---Jigglypuff's Advantages---
1. Since ike's recovery is very poor we have the ability to gimp him. DO NOT look for it, wait for the moment to happen. When you start approaching Ike in the air is when you start getting F/N/Baired and that's the last thing you want. Two back airs and a edge grab will seal the deal once you get him offstage.
2. Punishing is the last advantage we have on him, and it's morely something you NEED to do than an advantage. Ike's moves have incredibly bad lag time and you can punish that.. Make use of it. Our Dash attack can kill and sometimes DACUS is risky business but if times right, it can really be on your side. Just play smart. Like JigglyMaster said, it comes to what stage you are on as well. Play Smart. It's harder for low tier characters to fight against higher tier characters.. But that's what makes us smarter for winning. Time rest to punish stupid Eruption charges.
Neutral
---Summary---
Ness is a harsh counter for jigglypuff. Ness has a lot of things we don’t have, and is a really aerial character, some would argue he has one of the best aerial moveset’s in the game. His Fair has crazy spacing ability, his Bair has a killer sweet spot, Uair will kill at mid-high percents and Dair is the third hardest spike in the game. Ness also has projectiles that really mess up our ground approach and aerial approach. One of those projectiles that can kill us at 50%.
Compared to jigglypuff, Ness’s ground game looks great. He’s got that stanky leg, the dash attack that spaces incredibly, the baseball bat, and his back throw is a kill move. His SH Nair is a nasty spacer and can lead to a spike. The main advantage we have is messing with his recovery, punishing moves and trying to outspace him. Ness’s recovery is pretty bad as long as we don’t get hit with PKThunder2.
JigglyMaster: Even harder than Lucas. Take everything that Lucas does in the MU and Ness will preform it just as well along with a instant kill b throw and a strong spike. Antcipate Ness's PK fire so that you can powershield it and get close to him, once you do stay close to him unless your high on damage because hill kill you instantly probably somewhere at 80% or higher. You can gimp him pretty easily by hitting him or canceling his PK Thunder just like Lucas but be really careful so that you don't accidently get hit by it or get tricked into getting spiked. This is probably 65:35 Ness's Favor.
---Moves To Watch Out For---
Dash Attack
This attack comes out on frame 8, 15, 22
This attack is a great spacer. It’s incredibly hard to shield grab and usually will send you into the air on the third hit. Watch out for a follow up SH nair. Hoever the dash attack also has 16 frames of cooldown. So if you anticipate the dash attack and you can avoid it aerially, try to land a back air or boost grab to catch him at the end. The hitbox for the dash attack is pretty wicked so be careful. I can’t give any accurate information of how to punish this or what to do when it happens. Just rest assured it will not kill you. Shielding it is a good method… obviously. If you shield it just wait for the third hit and punish with a fast aerial or dash attack.
Babe Ruth (Fsmash)
Hits on frame 22,24
The baseball bat is a pretty hard hitting move if it’s fully charged. At low percents it’ll give you good knockback but not enough to kill you. Be careful with what you do on the ground. Make sure you don’t misspace a pound next to this attack because it can cause a painful half second of realizing what you just did wrong. You can’t really shield grab this move so don’t bother. If you see that bat appear you should side step or roll backwards if possible. If not, it’s not bad just to shield. However, this isn’t the kind of move you go spamming when you’re ness. You’ll save this one for a kill move so you can predict it. Best things to punish with is a dash attack or SH F/Nair. Reliably I would vote for dash attack because it has the most kill potential (when at higher percents) and it has good knockback to give you more room.
Up + B (Pk Thunder)
This one puts ness at the unfortunate disadvantage of.. well. Not being able to move. So you can obviously use this time to ….. rest…. Rollout… I mean. Technically everything in your moveset… Though the situation obviously can switch it up. He can plan for your attack and can get back and get you with PKThunder2. That’ll kill you pretty early. Also PK thunder can be really annoying when your trying to come down from the hourglass.. and sometime isn’t that easy to avoid. PK Thunder cannot be cancelled so they are on a time limit, if they mess up and go the wrong way you can punish it. If they do it offstage, this is their way to recover….. gimp anybody? Right when the PK thunder comes out, if they are in the air and you hit the PK’s bulb, ness will insta-die. But be careful because if it hits you with PK thunder 2… Bad News Bears. Good ness’s will hit you with the tail because they can circle it. Make a note of this.
SideB (Pk Fire)
This move. Sucks. I hate it. So much. When you’re hit with PK Fire it can be followed up with yet another PK fire. If you’re unfortunate you get stuck in the center and can be followed up with a Fsmash. However, if you smash DI back and up you can get out. If you don’t DI you can get followed up with an obnoxious amount of moves. Including a backthrow which will kill you pretty early (see below). If you can air dodge through it you can get a grab or a Fair. He’s a hard counter to jigglypuff because of his aerials which we will discuss now.
---Ness’ Aerials----
Fair
Fair is so dam good. It comes out on frame 8 and lasts until frame 22. The cooldown is until frame 40. It can be auto (ground) cancelled also which makes it even more obnoxious. The hitbox is just ******** on this move and takes up way too much space. You should probably avoid this move in general. Try to attack before it comes out? On a normal character I would recommend going from behind, but Ness’ Bair is scarier. I guess the best idea is to try to fair the startup animations. Pound will 80% of the time get overridden. So don’t bother.
Bair
Bair is a kill move without a doubt. It sweet spots pretty hard and will kill early much like Zelda’s F/Bair. Besides the starting animation it shouldn’t kill as easily. Since the start up is until frame 10 you should be able to see this move coming and try to counter it or bait it. There really isn’t a great way to approach Ness from behind. If you approach him, do it from the front for sure.
Nair
SH nair can be really annoying because it has a good amount of knockback. It’s much like Peach’s nair. At high percents it can have high enough knockback for a kill move. Besides that it’s not used too much as far as I can see. As a short hop move or maybe as a spacer offstage, but fair probably works much better for spacing. Though even then, who would be stupid enough to chase jigglypuff offstage with ness?
Dair
Scary spike. It’s the second hardest hitting spike in the game, next to Ganondorf’s ROFLstomp. It’s really not something to mess around with at mid… high…. Or low percents when you’ve used any of your jumps. God forbid someone gimps you when you’re jigglypuff. That’d be a shame. And an insult. Tip for Dair: Don’t go under Ness when you’re offstage.
---Moves That Kill---
Fsmash – 95% without DI
Dair - 0 after 2 jumps /// 20 % after 0 jumps
PK PULSEEEEE- 40% without DI and fully charged
Uair – 75% without DI
Bthrow – 105% without DI
Bair – 95-97% without DI
PK Thunder2 – 34% from the center of Final D no DI.
--Moves That Will Kill--
Rollout – 75%
Rest – 67%
Fair – 90%+ offstage
Utilt – 125%ish
Usmash – 125%ish
2. Punishing PK thunder or PK fire spam. You can see these moves being used a lot and can punish them, especially PK thunder because at 90%+ One rollout will definitely kill. Try to avoid being stupid and floating slowly through the PK thunder beam, if you can’t go around it, try to airdodge through the tail. If you get hit by the head of the PK thunder they will most likely go ahead and do another one because of the knockback. Punish for spamming special moves. You can also punish PK PULSEEEE! Pretty hard (Neutral B)
Compared to jigglypuff, Ness’s ground game looks great. He’s got that stanky leg, the dash attack that spaces incredibly, the baseball bat, and his back throw is a kill move. His SH Nair is a nasty spacer and can lead to a spike. The main advantage we have is messing with his recovery, punishing moves and trying to outspace him. Ness’s recovery is pretty bad as long as we don’t get hit with PKThunder2.
JigglyMaster: Even harder than Lucas. Take everything that Lucas does in the MU and Ness will preform it just as well along with a instant kill b throw and a strong spike. Antcipate Ness's PK fire so that you can powershield it and get close to him, once you do stay close to him unless your high on damage because hill kill you instantly probably somewhere at 80% or higher. You can gimp him pretty easily by hitting him or canceling his PK Thunder just like Lucas but be really careful so that you don't accidently get hit by it or get tricked into getting spiked. This is probably 65:35 Ness's Favor.
---Moves To Watch Out For---
Dash Attack
This attack comes out on frame 8, 15, 22
This attack is a great spacer. It’s incredibly hard to shield grab and usually will send you into the air on the third hit. Watch out for a follow up SH nair. Hoever the dash attack also has 16 frames of cooldown. So if you anticipate the dash attack and you can avoid it aerially, try to land a back air or boost grab to catch him at the end. The hitbox for the dash attack is pretty wicked so be careful. I can’t give any accurate information of how to punish this or what to do when it happens. Just rest assured it will not kill you. Shielding it is a good method… obviously. If you shield it just wait for the third hit and punish with a fast aerial or dash attack.
Babe Ruth (Fsmash)
Hits on frame 22,24
The baseball bat is a pretty hard hitting move if it’s fully charged. At low percents it’ll give you good knockback but not enough to kill you. Be careful with what you do on the ground. Make sure you don’t misspace a pound next to this attack because it can cause a painful half second of realizing what you just did wrong. You can’t really shield grab this move so don’t bother. If you see that bat appear you should side step or roll backwards if possible. If not, it’s not bad just to shield. However, this isn’t the kind of move you go spamming when you’re ness. You’ll save this one for a kill move so you can predict it. Best things to punish with is a dash attack or SH F/Nair. Reliably I would vote for dash attack because it has the most kill potential (when at higher percents) and it has good knockback to give you more room.
Up + B (Pk Thunder)
This one puts ness at the unfortunate disadvantage of.. well. Not being able to move. So you can obviously use this time to ….. rest…. Rollout… I mean. Technically everything in your moveset… Though the situation obviously can switch it up. He can plan for your attack and can get back and get you with PKThunder2. That’ll kill you pretty early. Also PK thunder can be really annoying when your trying to come down from the hourglass.. and sometime isn’t that easy to avoid. PK Thunder cannot be cancelled so they are on a time limit, if they mess up and go the wrong way you can punish it. If they do it offstage, this is their way to recover….. gimp anybody? Right when the PK thunder comes out, if they are in the air and you hit the PK’s bulb, ness will insta-die. But be careful because if it hits you with PK thunder 2… Bad News Bears. Good ness’s will hit you with the tail because they can circle it. Make a note of this.
SideB (Pk Fire)
This move. Sucks. I hate it. So much. When you’re hit with PK Fire it can be followed up with yet another PK fire. If you’re unfortunate you get stuck in the center and can be followed up with a Fsmash. However, if you smash DI back and up you can get out. If you don’t DI you can get followed up with an obnoxious amount of moves. Including a backthrow which will kill you pretty early (see below). If you can air dodge through it you can get a grab or a Fair. He’s a hard counter to jigglypuff because of his aerials which we will discuss now.
---Ness’ Aerials----
Fair
Fair is so dam good. It comes out on frame 8 and lasts until frame 22. The cooldown is until frame 40. It can be auto (ground) cancelled also which makes it even more obnoxious. The hitbox is just ******** on this move and takes up way too much space. You should probably avoid this move in general. Try to attack before it comes out? On a normal character I would recommend going from behind, but Ness’ Bair is scarier. I guess the best idea is to try to fair the startup animations. Pound will 80% of the time get overridden. So don’t bother.
Bair
Bair is a kill move without a doubt. It sweet spots pretty hard and will kill early much like Zelda’s F/Bair. Besides the starting animation it shouldn’t kill as easily. Since the start up is until frame 10 you should be able to see this move coming and try to counter it or bait it. There really isn’t a great way to approach Ness from behind. If you approach him, do it from the front for sure.
Nair
SH nair can be really annoying because it has a good amount of knockback. It’s much like Peach’s nair. At high percents it can have high enough knockback for a kill move. Besides that it’s not used too much as far as I can see. As a short hop move or maybe as a spacer offstage, but fair probably works much better for spacing. Though even then, who would be stupid enough to chase jigglypuff offstage with ness?
Dair
Scary spike. It’s the second hardest hitting spike in the game, next to Ganondorf’s ROFLstomp. It’s really not something to mess around with at mid… high…. Or low percents when you’ve used any of your jumps. God forbid someone gimps you when you’re jigglypuff. That’d be a shame. And an insult. Tip for Dair: Don’t go under Ness when you’re offstage.
---Moves That Kill---
Fsmash – 95% without DI
Dair - 0 after 2 jumps /// 20 % after 0 jumps
PK PULSEEEEE- 40% without DI and fully charged
Uair – 75% without DI
Bthrow – 105% without DI
Bair – 95-97% without DI
PK Thunder2 – 34% from the center of Final D no DI.
--Moves That Will Kill--
Rollout – 75%
Rest – 67%
Fair – 90%+ offstage
Utilt – 125%ish
Usmash – 125%ish
---Jigglypuff’s Advantages---
1. Honestly, the only big thing I can see as an advantage in this matchup is gimping and below/offstage (horizontally) punishing. If you can take one PK thunder while Ness is offstage, he’s dead. If not, 3 nairs and an edgegrab is a death as well. Try to get ness horizontally offstage.2. Punishing PK thunder or PK fire spam. You can see these moves being used a lot and can punish them, especially PK thunder because at 90%+ One rollout will definitely kill. Try to avoid being stupid and floating slowly through the PK thunder beam, if you can’t go around it, try to airdodge through the tail. If you get hit by the head of the PK thunder they will most likely go ahead and do another one because of the knockback. Punish for spamming special moves. You can also punish PK PULSEEEE! Pretty hard (Neutral B)
Neutral
---Summary---
**Low Tier
Link to the discussion:
Moves That Lucas Kills With:
Ftilt -> Fsmash: Kills at 75% without DI.
Usmash: kills at 60% reliably
Uthrow kills at 123%
Fair, from center of FD doesn't kill until around 140%, off the edge itll kill mush cearlier, i'd say 100% if not 90.
Uair kills at 120%
PKT2 won't kill till around 120%
Utilt kills at 135%
Ftilt kills around 144%
Moves That Lucas Kills With:
Ftilt -> Fsmash: Kills at 75% without DI.
Usmash: kills at 60% reliably
Uthrow kills at 123%
Fair, from center of FD doesn't kill until around 140%, off the edge itll kill mush cearlier, i'd say 100% if not 90.
Uair kills at 120%
PKT2 won't kill till around 120%
Utilt kills at 135%
Ftilt kills around 144%
Disadvantage
---Summary---
**Low Tier
This match is incredibly annoying for jigglypuff. Mario’s projectiles have a good tendency to knock into any ground approach you may have had, and hinder your aerial approach too. The fact his fireballs bounce off the ground and platforms don’t help either. In low tiers, Mario is going to be one of the harder fights for sure. I’m giving this guy a 45:55. Mario has decent kill potential, his aerials aren’t bad, and his recovery IS bad. His stutter step can do a good amount of knockback and even though its reach isn’t very far, it’s kill potential is great. Back air does work in the air against jigglypuff rather well. Read the write up.
1. Fsmash will kill at 100% from center stage.
2.Usmash kills at 98%.
3.Dsmash kills at 123-ish.
4.Bair kills at 130ish from Mid-Side stage.
5.Uair kills at 140-ish.
6.Fair kills at 135-ish offstage. Spikes hard around 100.
7.Uthrow will kill around 155%
8.Bthrow will kill around 150%
9.Dair will kill at 140 from stage. At higher altitudes it will kill much earlier.
1. Rollout kills at 80%
2. Rest will kill at 70%
3. Usmash will kill at 128%
4. Fsmash will kill at 108%
5. Utilt will kill at 128%
6. Fair kills at 125% from center stage.
1. We have a hard time with a lot of things in this matchup. One of those things is fireballs. Mario can combo into them, set himself up with them, and annoy the hell out of us. The best thing to do in this scenario is not try to clash with them. Go around them.
2. We can gimp Mario rather well, more so than most low tiers. He only has minor horizontal recovery. Two nairs should work.
3. There are 3 kinds of Marios you’ll see. The defensive/campy fireball spamming Mario, in which case…. Time them out. I know it sucks and it’s annoying to do. But it has to be done. The “Jumpman” Mario (Mario Boards term) where they are mostly an aerial fighting Mario… you’ll be seeing a lot of bair and nair in this fight, or the agro Mario which consists of a lot of fireballs setting up for combos.
4. GET in marios face. Please. Once you’re there, all his attacks can be shield grabbed and he has no real ay to protect himself. He doesn’t have an amazing spacer at close range and we work very well close range. That’s where we need him!
---Moves To Watch Out For---
-Jab comes out on frame 2-
Mario’s jab works really well in combo breaking, and jab cancelling. Mario’s jab can be jab cancelled and can pressure you or mind game you hard enough into being Fsmashed. Fsmash can kill as early as 95 from the center of final D. Which means at the end of a stage you can get killed at sad percents. Though, Mario’s jab combo can also be shield grabbed, keep that in mind and punish wisely :D. -Ftilt comes out in frame 5-
The only time you should ever really see this is when they are trying to space you and you are right in their face. Mario’s don’t play agro, he’s a very defensive character using fireballs to set him up a wall to protect as he goes in. When you get in his face, he’ll try to ftilt you out of their to get you into fireball range. Ftilt has no kill potential.
-Utilt comes out on frame 5-
Utilt is mainly used for faux-comboing someone. Luckily jigglypuff is very light so we cannot be utilt juggled. If he does manage to utilt you at a lower percent it can lead to a Nair or an Uair.
-fireballs are annoying-
Frame data wont save you from fireballs. As jigglypuff, your fair bair and nair do clash with fireballs, but it’s not worth the extra damage you’re going to take in the exchange. Unfortunately the fireballs always tend to land beautifully in your way when you’re landing. Best tips to avoid fireballs would be to get out of their range and force Mario to approach you. He’s going to pressure you with them. Either he will be forced to get closer or you can get in his face. Either way, the best way to win this match is to be in his face. I’ve had to time out a Mario before. That match wasn’t easy at all.
-Fmsash hits on frame 15-
Fsmash is Mario’s hardest hitting smash attack. He can stutter step it for even more space should he need to, and this thing kills early. The range isn’t anything amazing like Ike’s.. but it will definitely kill. If this hits your shield, you can punish it, If you outspace it you can punish it because of the ending lag. It’s not anything crazy.. like Ike’s… but yoc an punish it more than you can Usmash or Dsmash.
-Usmash hits on frames 9 and 13-
Usmash is another good killer in mario’s moveset. Mario has a tiny DACUS, nothing you wont see coming, it’s as far as his dash attack. Obviously. The ending lag isn’t to great, but like most attacks on shield you can choose to grab or OOS Fair. Just be careful as this attack is a killer. I don’t have much help for how to avoid, because most of the time you’ll see this attack come out is if you’re floating over Mario looking for a window in, or if you’re above him on a low platform. But even then, Uair might be a better option. Just always be aware of Mario’s options.
-Dsmash hits on frames 5 and 14-
Dsmash kills at late percents in the low 100’s but it is used for punishing rolls, as well as poor grounded shield pressure punishing, ie, if you are grounded pounding or shield ftilting. He may even set this attack up with a fireball. It comes out fast and hits on both side of Mario. The ending lag isn’t great but you can always… always punish attacks on shield. I know I am repeating myself, but Jigglypuffs shield grab is too good not to continuously mention.-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mario’s Aerials
-Uair comes ot on frame 4-
Uair is tied for mario’s best aerial. The ending lag is very little. It can definitely do some juggling work and is something you need to keep aware of when approaching from above. It can be spammed moderately well and is good for spacing in the air. Mario’s that use the “Jumpman” approach (More aerial style of fighting with Mario) will be using this attack rather often. Dair should be able to drill through this in most situations. -Bair comes out on frame 6-
Bair autocancels and is a very useful attack. Many Mario’s I have played have spammed this attack as a spacer. The best thing I can say to do against it in the air is wave bounce some pounds or try to outspace with bair. Using the ending lag of pound is probably the best option. This attack also autocancels when it hits the ground making it even more available to spam. Just outspace it, you have the aerial mobility in this fight.-Fair hits on 16, spikes on 21-
This is a pretty slow hitting attack, but it will kill. It will also spike which sucks. But if Mario is in any situation where he can try to spike you and expects you to die before him, you can turn that situation around and just nair him twice so he doesn’t recover. You should be able to see this attack coming, and be able to A) get out of the way [jump] or B) attack before his comes out. Don’t trust air dodge against attacks that have two different points of impact. It’s not worth the risk. Just attack instead of dodging. Sex kick. (Nair)-Nair comes out on frame 3-
Nair is Mario’s sex kick and remains out for 25 frames. When we get into an aerial battle with Mario this attack may be seen a good amount, but against Jigglypuff I don’t see this attack being more useful than uair. Though it may be used in the same way jigglypuff uses it, to OOS option. Mario’s sex kick can be punished with our Fair or Bair. Just remember, we own the low tier airs.
-Dair comes out on frame 5-
This is a multi hit move and at high percents/high altitudes it will kill. It autocancels when it hits the ground at the ending frames, for the rest of the animation it has minor cooldown lag. Nothing incredibly but nothing short. You can punish this with dash attacks when it hits the ground, or just Fair it outta here. You might be able to DI out of it, seeing as only the final frames of the attack actually kill.
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-Cape comes out on frame 12-
This attack should really only be used when trying to reflect our roll, unless you really messed up a pound. Mario’s also use cape to get back to the edge horizontally. He may also try to use this to combo into an aerial, though less common against jigglypuff since we have no projectiles. You shouldn’t see this too much.
-Super Jump Punch comes out on frame 3 and has invulnerability until 6-
This is mostly used as a c-c-c-combo breaker. Though, we don’t have any chain grabs you’ll mostly be seeing this as a way to recover… or an incredibly desperate way to kill us or catch us when we are timing him out. The ending lag is terrible. Punish with a fully charged rollout. Hakaka.
Moves that kill:
1. Fsmash will kill at 100% from center stage.
2.Usmash kills at 98%.
3.Dsmash kills at 123-ish.
4.Bair kills at 130ish from Mid-Side stage.
5.Uair kills at 140-ish.
6.Fair kills at 135-ish offstage. Spikes hard around 100.
7.Uthrow will kill around 155%
8.Bthrow will kill around 150%
9.Dair will kill at 140 from stage. At higher altitudes it will kill much earlier.
Moves to kill with:
1. Rollout kills at 80%
2. Rest will kill at 70%
3. Usmash will kill at 128%
4. Fsmash will kill at 108%
5. Utilt will kill at 128%
6. Fair kills at 125% from center stage.
---Jigglypuff’s Advatages---
1. We have a hard time with a lot of things in this matchup. One of those things is fireballs. Mario can combo into them, set himself up with them, and annoy the hell out of us. The best thing to do in this scenario is not try to clash with them. Go around them.
2. We can gimp Mario rather well, more so than most low tiers. He only has minor horizontal recovery. Two nairs should work.
3. There are 3 kinds of Marios you’ll see. The defensive/campy fireball spamming Mario, in which case…. Time them out. I know it sucks and it’s annoying to do. But it has to be done. The “Jumpman” Mario (Mario Boards term) where they are mostly an aerial fighting Mario… you’ll be seeing a lot of bair and nair in this fight, or the agro Mario which consists of a lot of fireballs setting up for combos.
4. GET in marios face. Please. Once you’re there, all his attacks can be shield grabbed and he has no real ay to protect himself. He doesn’t have an amazing spacer at close range and we work very well close range. That’s where we need him!
Neutral
---Summary---
**Low Tier
**Low Tier
I believe that Jigglypuff has the disadvantage in this match because of Samus' ground game as well as her projectiles. If Samus wasn't bad in the air then the match would be more in Samus' favor. Samus' missiles, homing missiles and charge shots make it hard to approach her and her Zair makes it even more difficult. We have some moves that can out prioritize the missiles, but the Zair and the charge shot has no counter in out moveset besides air dodge or shield.
The Zair limits our aerial game while over the stage so we need to move our game out to the sides of the stage. If we stay on top of the stage then Samus can easily Zair and missile is repeatedly. And Zair can easily bait us to be Dtilted or other attacks. Check below for the list of attacks, what kill, what percent they kill and what advantages we have over this character.
---Moves to look out for---
Zair
Without a doubt one of my least favorite attacks in the game. This move outranges every other move in the game and never gets stale. Unfortunately you have nothing that our prioritizes this attack. Your best bet is to avoid this attack by either going over it, air dodging, or run PS, run, PS. Though be careful because some Samus' try to bait you to run underneath the Zair so they can attack you on the ground, ie Dtilt or grab. By airdodging you risk getting hit with Zair due to the lingering attack. Also watch out for the sweet spot at the very tip of it because it can kill you if you're near the edge of the stage. This move is overall a nuisance. You could even try to DACUS under zair and catch Samus. Trying to bait the Zair.
Missiles and Charge Shot
I think it'd be easier to talk about both of these in one section since you react to both of them generally the same. For the missiles you can choose to either pound them/Fair them awayor ignore them by ducking or air dodging. For homing missiles just avoid them, it's not worth the extra damage to try to attack them. For the charge shot, it can be pretty obvious when Samus is about to use it, most of the time they will set it up with a Zair or a missile. This is the main reason that the matchup is in Samus' favor, it's hard to approach her. Just remember once you get in Samus' face don't stay on the ground. Get in the air. NOTE: The charge shots wont kill you till higher percents. See Below.
Dtilt
The downtilt is one of Samus' best kill moves. When it hits your shield it also pushed you back far enough so you cannot shield grab her. Out of a shielded Dtilt your best bet is to SH nair or fair. Or even DJ Dair so you remain above Samus. If you're on the ground or try to roll past her you could get Dsmashed. Just be aware that this move is used to punish bad rolls as well as a follow up to Zair. If Samus notices you're going to take the Run PS, run PS method she could easily do one more Zair knowing your going to run again and then Dtilt. Just be aware you can't shield grab because you'll get punished for attempting.
Fsmash
The forward smash is a kill move as well and is used for punishing. This is another reason you should avoid being next to Samus on the ground. Pound goes through this however. When you're in close combat range, remember that F/Nair and Pound are useful. NO GROUNDED POUNDS. Always short hop and aim for the upper 1/3 of Samus' body with a rising pound. If you're in the lower or mid area you can be Dsmashed or Dtilted. The range on this attack isn't that big but it's the biggest smash range that Samus has.
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---Samus' Aerials----
Nair
This is a sex kick. This can be beaten by all our aerials. I haven't tried Dair but I'm not sure what kind of situation you put yourself in if this is the most choice you chose for figting Nair.
Bair
Bair is a good move of Samus'. It has kill potential and it extends farther than your aerials. Pound is probably going to be the only thing to counter this. Though if you wait for the cooldown lag you should be able to punish them.
Fair
The main time you'll be seeing this attack is when Samus' is coming up from off the edge. Besides that, it has awkward trajectory and it isn’t overall useful with the exception of racking up damage. You shouldn't be seeing this too often. Though, this is the reason you should space yourself when Samus' is on the edge.
Dair
This move can spike, and it hits hard when you're at mid-high percents though your Uair can our space it when don't correctly. You can also bait this move rather easily. Samus players love to use this move.
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---Moves that kill---
Dair - Spikes at low percents.Fsmash - Kills at120%
Dtilt - Kills at 104 without DI
Bair - Kills at 130% from center final D.
Charge Shot - Kills at 110%[/COLOR]
---Moves that will kill---
Rollout will kill at 82%
Fair will kill reliably at 105% off the edge
DACUS will kill at 130%
Rest will kill at 70%
Utilt kills mid 130%
---Jigglypuff-s Advantages---
1. Off the side of the stage is where you want Samus. Get as many backthrows or Fair's as it takes to get Samie out there and then Nair and fair. If you see Samus start to bomb jump just go out there and either take a bomb so that samie dies. Or fair. Samus' recovery has a bad habit of being caught under final D. If you get hit with Samus' Up+B you can smash DI upwards on both sticks to get out and punish depending where on the map it happens.
2. You rule the air. Don't use the ground. Air. Air. Air. Air.
1. Off the side of the stage is where you want Samus. Get as many backthrows or Fair's as it takes to get Samie out there and then Nair and fair. If you see Samus start to bomb jump just go out there and either take a bomb so that samie dies. Or fair. Samus' recovery has a bad habit of being caught under final D. If you get hit with Samus' Up+B you can smash DI upwards on both sticks to get out and punish depending where on the map it happens.
2. You rule the air. Don't use the ground. Air. Air. Air. Air.
Neutral
---Summary---
**Low Tier
**Low Tier
I would say that we have an advantage on Captain Falcon. His recovery really isn’t that good and his moves aren’t too deadly. Off the edge is where we reign once again. You’ll notice one of the biggest places I’ll always discuss about Jigglypuff is off of the edge and that’s because a good Jigglypuff player always gets their opponent off the side of the stage. Captain Falcon’s ground game isn’t too much better than ours if at all. Hit best kill moves are in the air.
The only main advantages I see is his speed. Besides that we have more priority in air and we can put up a good fight on the ground. Our grab game is far superior to his. There are a few ground attacks he has that can do some damage but those can be spaced or shielded for a shield grab. Below I will have the main attacks you’ll see in the air and on the ground along with what you can do to avoid it or counter it.
Rest will kill at 79%
Rollout will kill at 85%
Fair will kill at 90+ off the edge
Utilt will kill at 140%
Usmash will kill at 135%
2. Jigglypuff’s pound has a great priority over a lot of grounded and aerial attacks falcon throws out. Use that and grabs a lot when on the ground. Grabs are one of jigglypuff’s best characteristics in her moveset. She has great grab range and with a guaranteed 13% per pummel->throw that’s pretty nice. Just think…. Dair -> Grab - > Two pummels - > Fresh throw. That’s a maximum of 32%. That’s crazy.
3. Aerial game with jigglypuff is superior to falcons as well. Of course remember, priority is nothing more than who spaces their move better. So when you do your attacks remember that Bair and Fair will kill you at high percents… Keep your distance and Bair the hell out of falcon. He has no projectiles. So don’t be scared.
The only main advantages I see is his speed. Besides that we have more priority in air and we can put up a good fight on the ground. Our grab game is far superior to his. There are a few ground attacks he has that can do some damage but those can be spaced or shielded for a shield grab. Below I will have the main attacks you’ll see in the air and on the ground along with what you can do to avoid it or counter it.
---Moves to look out for---
Jab
The jab comes out on frame 3.
Captain Falcon’s jab can be jab cancelled and can be very annoying to rack up damage. Good CF’s will use this jab to refresh their KO moves as well. This jab can work similarly to Falco’s jab in that a Jab -> Grab is possible. The jab infinite (holding down jab) is used primarily at lower percents and won’t be seen very often when you’re at higher percents. Remember that CF’s grab is one of, if not, the worst in the game. The jab can be punished with a shield grab or a OOS Dair. If you see the jab cancel start to come out, just get out of jabs range and then reapproach.
Fsmash
The hitbox hits on frame 19.
The Fsmash is used for punishing bad rolls and can be used as a kill move. The cool down lag is pretty horrific on this attack so once you shield it you are open to do most attacks. Your best options are to SH fair or OOS Dair after the attack. However this attack can be stutterstepped which gives the attack a little bit more range. This isn’t necessarily a move to be scared of, just be aware of making bad rolls and being predictable.
Captain Falcon’s jab can be jab cancelled and can be very annoying to rack up damage. Good CF’s will use this jab to refresh their KO moves as well. This jab can work similarly to Falco’s jab in that a Jab -> Grab is possible. The jab infinite (holding down jab) is used primarily at lower percents and won’t be seen very often when you’re at higher percents. Remember that CF’s grab is one of, if not, the worst in the game. The jab can be punished with a shield grab or a OOS Dair. If you see the jab cancel start to come out, just get out of jabs range and then reapproach.
Fsmash
The hitbox hits on frame 19.
The Fsmash is used for punishing bad rolls and can be used as a kill move. The cool down lag is pretty horrific on this attack so once you shield it you are open to do most attacks. Your best options are to SH fair or OOS Dair after the attack. However this attack can be stutterstepped which gives the attack a little bit more range. This isn’t necessarily a move to be scared of, just be aware of making bad rolls and being predictable.
Dsmash
The attack hits on frame 19/29.
This attack is also used for punishing spot dodges or bad rolls. It has kill potential as well. Try not to be in CF’s grill when you’re fighting him because his up-close on ground game is superior to ours. As with fighting most characters, stay in the air above him. Don’t be scared to space retreating B/F/Nairs because captain falcon’s grab isn’t going to be able to getcha unless you really can’t space well. You could always try to bait the Dsmash and punish with OOS Dair. If you see the opponent prat fall during the Dair you can know that if you push your momentum onto the opponent you can try to land a rest. If you do this even once, whenever a Dair is done to your opponent it will make them want to shield when the attack is done, setting you up for a grab.
Usmash
Hit comes out on frame 22/28
This attack is used commonly as a hyphen smash so if you see the falcon sprinting towards you and you are hovering in the air down towards him don’t be scared to throw out pound. One of the best ways to hit pound is having your opponent run into you. This works well for DACUS’ such as mortar slides. Regardless, if both hits hit you then it’ll rack up some damage.
The knee hits on frame 14 and bair hits on frame 10.
This move will KO pretty early as compared to the rest of his moveset. The sweetspot makes time stop and rockets you offstage after any percent past 85% (with DI). Pound will beat this since the opening frames are the sweet spotted ones. Though watch out for the back air as well for it can kill at the 100%+. In the air try to Wall Of Pain with back air or nair to stop his recovery. Try to bait him to attack you offstage and then punish for them for coming out and trying jigglypuff in the air.
This attack is also used for punishing spot dodges or bad rolls. It has kill potential as well. Try not to be in CF’s grill when you’re fighting him because his up-close on ground game is superior to ours. As with fighting most characters, stay in the air above him. Don’t be scared to space retreating B/F/Nairs because captain falcon’s grab isn’t going to be able to getcha unless you really can’t space well. You could always try to bait the Dsmash and punish with OOS Dair. If you see the opponent prat fall during the Dair you can know that if you push your momentum onto the opponent you can try to land a rest. If you do this even once, whenever a Dair is done to your opponent it will make them want to shield when the attack is done, setting you up for a grab.
DownB, SideB(grounded) and Dash Attack
Frame data doesn’t matter.
These attacks will hit your shield and give you 90 minutes of lag time to punish. Just punish the normal Jigglypuff way and Shield Grab and choose the throw of your choice. Short hop N/B/Fair to punish. The only exception to these is the side B. The side B on the ground has less ending lag then the others and may be harder to punish. He’s too far away to grab unless you time it to make sure his fist is completely in the air. But even then it’s safer to punish with a dash attack, or back up and reapproach.
These attacks will hit your shield and give you 90 minutes of lag time to punish. Just punish the normal Jigglypuff way and Shield Grab and choose the throw of your choice. Short hop N/B/Fair to punish. The only exception to these is the side B. The side B on the ground has less ending lag then the others and may be harder to punish. He’s too far away to grab unless you time it to make sure his fist is completely in the air. But even then it’s safer to punish with a dash attack, or back up and reapproach.
Usmash
Hit comes out on frame 22/28
This attack is used commonly as a hyphen smash so if you see the falcon sprinting towards you and you are hovering in the air down towards him don’t be scared to throw out pound. One of the best ways to hit pound is having your opponent run into you. This works well for DACUS’ such as mortar slides. Regardless, if both hits hit you then it’ll rack up some damage.
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The Knee (Fair) and BairThe knee hits on frame 14 and bair hits on frame 10.
This move will KO pretty early as compared to the rest of his moveset. The sweetspot makes time stop and rockets you offstage after any percent past 85% (with DI). Pound will beat this since the opening frames are the sweet spotted ones. Though watch out for the back air as well for it can kill at the 100%+. In the air try to Wall Of Pain with back air or nair to stop his recovery. Try to bait him to attack you offstage and then punish for them for coming out and trying jigglypuff in the air.
Uair and Dair
Uair hits on frame 6 and Dair hits on 16.
Uair is Captain Falcon's fastest aerial to come out. It's pretty good at juggling in the air and getting the opponent offstage. It has a surprising amount of kill power, so be careful
Uair is Captain Falcon's fastest aerial to come out. It's pretty good at juggling in the air and getting the opponent offstage. It has a surprising amount of kill power, so be careful
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---Moves that kill---
Usmash will kill at 83% without DI.
The Knee will kill at 65% without DI
Fsmash will kill at 90%
Uair will kill at 125% from mid final D but will kill at 100% offstage.
Falcon Punch will kill at 45% without DI. (You can duck) --- Depressing
Bair will kill at 90% offstage without DI.
The Knee will kill at 65% without DI
Fsmash will kill at 90%
Uair will kill at 125% from mid final D but will kill at 100% offstage.
Falcon Punch will kill at 45% without DI. (You can duck) --- Depressing
Bair will kill at 90% offstage without DI.
---Moves that kill---
Rest will kill at 79%
Rollout will kill at 85%
Fair will kill at 90+ off the edge
Utilt will kill at 140%
Usmash will kill at 135%
---Jigglypuff’s Advantages---
1. As with most characters her gimping abilities make her have an upper hand. Cap’n Falcon’s recovery isn’t that good and has very awkward trajectory. If he attempts to recover using the side B in the air and spikes you, you might still be able to recover. If he goes for the UpB you can air dodge or even Dair and follow up.
2. Jigglypuff’s pound has a great priority over a lot of grounded and aerial attacks falcon throws out. Use that and grabs a lot when on the ground. Grabs are one of jigglypuff’s best characteristics in her moveset. She has great grab range and with a guaranteed 13% per pummel->throw that’s pretty nice. Just think…. Dair -> Grab - > Two pummels - > Fresh throw. That’s a maximum of 32%. That’s crazy.
3. Aerial game with jigglypuff is superior to falcons as well. Of course remember, priority is nothing more than who spaces their move better. So when you do your attacks remember that Bair and Fair will kill you at high percents… Keep your distance and Bair the hell out of falcon. He has no projectiles. So don’t be scared.
Neutral
---Summary---
**Low Tier
**Low Tier
This match is absolutely obnoxious. Jigglypuff’s approach game is equally as bad as Zelda’s approach game. Though, we have baiting which is why we can do better. As KillerJawz said “She has three approach options… Dash Attack, Nair and Airdodge towards the opponent(lol)”. I kept the lol in there because it definitely belongs. There are two things that work amazingly in this matchup, and that is your aerial mobility and pound. With your aerial mobility you can easily bait smash attacks and aerials from Zelda, both of which are sorry. They are not sorry because of power, because Zelda is ALL killing power, they are sorry because the lag you can punish with. It’s not an easy match, but we do have advantage. Also, Zelda’s Air game is laughable.
Tip: Do NOT airdodge around Zelda. Aka, no mixups or crossovers. You will get punished.
1. Fsmash will kill at 100% from center stage.
2.Usmash kills at 85%.
3.Dsmash kills at 120-ish.
4.Bair/fair kills at 75ish from Mid-Side stage when sweet spotted
5.Uair kills at 55% halfway up on final D.
6. Utilt kills at 82%
7.Uthrow will kill around 160%
8.Ftilt will kill around 115%
9.Dair will kill at low percents offstage from stage. Beware the sweetspot.
1. Rollout kills at 75%
2. Rest will kill at 71%
3. Usmash will kill at 116%
4. Fsmash will kill at 104%
5. Utilt will kill at 117%
6. Fair kills at 116% from center stage.
1. This matchup is incredibly annoying for us. It’s not that it’s hard, you have to know how to play it. Once you get he right playstyle down, this won’t be hard for you at all. When you’re at a distance, Zelda is going to Din’s Fire you, when she does you can either clash with it with Nair, Fair or pound or rollout. If you charge rollout and she dins fires, you can pile through it and hit her.
2. Pound works wonders. It lifts her off the ground and gives you the opportunity to get her off the stage, the problem is getting in through the smash attacks. Learn how to DI the smash attacks, that’s going to be the hardest part to learn. But her Fsmash and Usmash can be DI’ed out of.
3. There is no safe approach for Zelda. Wait for her approach or wait for her Din’s Fire.
4. Do not airdodge into Zelda. Please. You will be punished and your shield will get wrecked. Hard.
Tip: Do NOT airdodge around Zelda. Aka, no mixups or crossovers. You will get punished.
---Moves To Watch Out For---
-Jab comes out on frame 11/13/15-
This jab works really well on spacing you at close range. It is an excellent spacer, much like Ganon’s. It deals 6% which is ridic, and the knockback is pretty hefty. It won’t kill you, if even, at really high percents, but it’ll space well, just think Ganon.-Ftilt comes out in frame 12-14-
Ftilt is a good kill move, it shoots you diagonally up and horizontally away from Zelda, kill percents at the bottom of this matchup. It’s just another of Zelda’s many spacers. She has spacers and kill moves, but no approaches. It ends on frame 40.
-Utilt is active on frames 10-24-
This move is broken and kills pretty early. It has a ridiculous hitbox and you’ll find yourself running into this move. Unfortunately this move is not DI-able, like Usmash. You get hit and you messed up. This is a lesson to not airdodge into Zelda. This move beats airdodge the majority of the time.
-Dtilt comes out on 5-
This attack can be used much like Ike/Peach/Pit’s Dtilt to smike you into the ground. Zelda uses it to combo into other moves such as jab or fsmash. Just be aware of that, you shouldn’t be in the position to be hit by this too much, but it doesn’t have too much cooling lag, and it won’t kill, but can lead to a kill and is another reason not to airdodge into Zelda.
-Fmsash hits on frame 16 (then in 4 other hits 2 frames away)-
This is one of Zelda’s biggest killers. This move also lasts forever and eats shields whole, this is the reason you should not be using a shield to win against Zelda. The good news is that this move it ends on frame 40. So you have time to bait it. Don’t bait to close to her head, because the usmash will suck you in and if you don’t know how to DI it than it will kill you early.
-Usmash hits on frames 6 and 31-
This move sucks. In a way that it is incredibly good for Zelda, it’ll suck you in and has 11 hits. If one of the outside hitboxes touch you, it’ll bring you right in to the middle. You need to learn to DI out of this, I’ll update this accordingly once I get my message back from Ed. I know this kills ridiculously early and has a lot of range. Don’t underestimate it, you will die.
-Dsmash hits on frames 4-6 and 12-14-
This attack isn’t too bad for Jigglypuff because we can recover really well. This sends you at what I call “The Metaknight Angle” which is where you go diagonally down below the stage. Most characters get gimped, but we don’t have to worry about it. It will kill, the percents are at the bottom. It’s easily shield grabbable.-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Zelda’s Aerials
-Uair comes ot on frame 14-
Uair will kill very early, I think around 60%. You will never be hit by this attack below the stage, so the only percents that matters is when she jumps in the air to hit you with it. The hitbox isn’t very big on it, but when it hits, you will die. It ends on frame 55, so you have a good amount of time to punish it. Every aerial Zelda uses off the stage limits her survival. -Bair/Fair comes out on frame 8-12(F) / 5-8(B)-
Bair and Fair are essentially the same move so I wanted to put them in together. The sweetspot has the same effect as Falcon’s Knee. It stops time so you think about your mistake and then a ridiculous amount of hitstun sets in as you die slowly offstage. This move should not hit you. There’s a solid 30 frames of ending lag. It’s easily baitable and punishable. Just another move that Zelda will die for using. -Nair active on frames 6-23-
Nair is good for spacing in the air, and has potential to kill if you hit by all the hitboxes. Lasts for 50 frames
-Dair comes out on frame 14-24-
This move will spike really hard but you shouldn’t see too much of Zelda trying to gimp you, so it shouldn’t concern you. Though, if for any reason you are underneath Zelda… get out of there. It’s not worth challenging. It’s the 3rd hardest hitting spike in the game. And soft spot isn’t bad at all. But it’s not worth challenging the 10 frame space between death and a love tap.
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-Din’s Fire-
The Hitbox on this is very misleading, it’s actually incredibly big. Luckily pound, Nair and Fair all go through it, Nair is always the safe choice.The ending lag on this move is really bad and if you’re charging rollout the beginning of the roll can pile through din’s fire. There’s not much you need to know, this is how she is going to punish you when you are far away. You don’t have projectiles so you are forced to approach.
-Zelda’s Recovery-
The beginning of the transformation have a hitbox that doesn’t hurt too much, it deals 6% and can be interrupted with any attack. Aka, Nair. The end frames of it are the ones that deal a lot of knockback and can kill you at really high percents. If you know Zelda is going for the ledge, just grab it. If she overshoots the edge, she has no mobility and can’t grab after the hitboxes are gone. You can easily gimp her during the beginning of the transformation though.
Moves that kill:
1. Fsmash will kill at 100% from center stage.
2.Usmash kills at 85%.
3.Dsmash kills at 120-ish.
4.Bair/fair kills at 75ish from Mid-Side stage when sweet spotted
5.Uair kills at 55% halfway up on final D.
6. Utilt kills at 82%
7.Uthrow will kill around 160%
8.Ftilt will kill around 115%
9.Dair will kill at low percents offstage from stage. Beware the sweetspot.
Moves to kill with:
1. Rollout kills at 75%
2. Rest will kill at 71%
3. Usmash will kill at 116%
4. Fsmash will kill at 104%
5. Utilt will kill at 117%
6. Fair kills at 116% from center stage.
---Jigglypuff’s Advatages---
1. This matchup is incredibly annoying for us. It’s not that it’s hard, you have to know how to play it. Once you get he right playstyle down, this won’t be hard for you at all. When you’re at a distance, Zelda is going to Din’s Fire you, when she does you can either clash with it with Nair, Fair or pound or rollout. If you charge rollout and she dins fires, you can pile through it and hit her.
2. Pound works wonders. It lifts her off the ground and gives you the opportunity to get her off the stage, the problem is getting in through the smash attacks. Learn how to DI the smash attacks, that’s going to be the hardest part to learn. But her Fsmash and Usmash can be DI’ed out of.
3. There is no safe approach for Zelda. Wait for her approach or wait for her Din’s Fire.
4. Do not airdodge into Zelda. Please. You will be punished and your shield will get wrecked. Hard.
Neutral
---Summary---
**Low Tier
**Low Tier
This makes me really sad to say, but I believe that the Ganon-Jiggly matchup is a 50/50. *sigh*. He’s a heavyweight and can kill at early percents. For god’s sake, jab can kill us. His heavy weight makes him easy to juggle in the air, which makes it easy to set up rest when high in the air, and it makes it easy to gimp. As we all know, Ganon’s recovery is without a doubt one of the sorriest things in this game. However, his shield game isn’t good, his grab range is worse and he can be set up for easy kills with a simple back throw. I wish I could I say that the match was more in our favor, but due to the power and difficulty to kill from land, it’s a 50:50.
Approaching Ganondorf can be difficult as well. Since his jab and Ftilt outrange our aerials we have to play either smart shield game or go from above. However if Ganon sees us coming from above he can easily SH Uair, so be careful for that. I have found that Rising Pound (since you become out of grab range) or Dair sets you up for more attacks from there. Jab is really good as a spacer (for ganon) so be careful of shield dashing and being spaced more and get shield ****ed.
Remember. GANON HAS NO WAY OF APPROACHING. THERE IS NO SAFE WAY TO APPROACH. MAKE HIM COME TO YOU.
---Moves To Watch Out For---
Jab
–Jab is a combo breaker-
Jab has a lot of power and comes out pretty fast. It can serve as a combo breaker to most chaingrabs and even has kill potential. Though, we don’t have chain grabs obviously but I was merely using that as an example. The range on jab is comparable to our approaching aerials, which makes it hard for us to SH aerial him without waiting for a shielded attack. Best thing to do, when hit by it, give yourself some space and decide how to you want to approach him. See *Summary* for approaching information.
Fsmash
Fsmash comes out pretty slow compared to most moves in the game, however it has crazy kill potential. It’ll kill mad early, yet another reason why it’s 50:50. I mean, if you see him charging a smash attack, the thought in your head should be “Well, I’m not going over there to even try to interfere… that’ll kill me pretty hard… I should charge a roll. Or go above him and punish the cooling lag with rest.” Because those are good options.Ftilt
Yet another good spacing/kill move from Ganondorf. There’s a small handful of attacks you should expect from ganondorf when youre standing infront of him: Jab, Ftilt, Down B, Side B. And maybe Fsmash if he feels lucky. If you can powershield it you might be able to follow up with a grab or dash attack as a good option. By forcing Ganondorf to approach you, you should see his options unfold. If you see him creeping his way over to you, expect a Ftilt, if youre approaching on the ground… you deserve it. When you see him set up, Get above him and do some Dairs. Kick him off the edge.
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Ganon’s Aerials
Bair
The back air will kill, but it has little range and bad ending lag.
Uair
This is probably one of Ganon’s better moves. It has good kill potential, comes out moderately fast, can be short hopped effectively, and has pretty good range. Air dodge it works, spacing and using Nair or pound is effective as well.
Fair
I look at it as a volleyball serve. You can definitely see it coming from a mile away, so just bait it, and punish. Even airdodge. The move has so much starting lag it’s crazy, and if he tries to SH it, the landing lag is terrible, so punish with something hard hitting, or getting him off the edge. Throw him.
Dair
This move, will kill you offstage at 0% (if you’ve used more than 2 jumps) without a doubt. This hits so hard it’s disgusting. It does approx 23% and can auto cancel on the ground. One of the more common moves you’ll see a ganondorf using. I’m not sure how many ganon’s you’ll see on your path to victory. But be aware that when you are spaced well, and you know an Uair wont hit him just get to the side of him and approach from there. 23% spike back to the stage isn’t worth it.
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The back air will kill, but it has little range and bad ending lag.
Uair
This is probably one of Ganon’s better moves. It has good kill potential, comes out moderately fast, can be short hopped effectively, and has pretty good range. Air dodge it works, spacing and using Nair or pound is effective as well.
Fair
I look at it as a volleyball serve. You can definitely see it coming from a mile away, so just bait it, and punish. Even airdodge. The move has so much starting lag it’s crazy, and if he tries to SH it, the landing lag is terrible, so punish with something hard hitting, or getting him off the edge. Throw him.
Dair
This move, will kill you offstage at 0% (if you’ve used more than 2 jumps) without a doubt. This hits so hard it’s disgusting. It does approx 23% and can auto cancel on the ground. One of the more common moves you’ll see a ganondorf using. I’m not sure how many ganon’s you’ll see on your path to victory. But be aware that when you are spaced well, and you know an Uair wont hit him just get to the side of him and approach from there. 23% spike back to the stage isn’t worth it.
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Down-B
This is one of the few approaches or punishments ganon might use for a missed aerial. Just know you can Nair… or shield grab this attack and you should be fine. However, if he tried to do this attack in the air, the opening frames can spike you pretty hard… Though, you should see it coming. In the air, approach ganon from.. well… any angle. If he does a double jump to get above you, you know this attack or Dair is coming. Keep in mind ganon’s will use the extra startup frames to try to get you spot dodge, this will and can kill you.Side B
This attack is one of ganons few.. suicide and combo moves. If he manages to ground Side B you, he can set up for a jab, Dtilt or ftilt if you don’t get out of the way. He can also read which way you are going to roll and follow up with another side B. The best thing to do is do a get up attack , or just stand up. If Ganon thinks youre going to do a get up attack he might shield and you can immediately do a grab.
Now, if he does this attack in the air and it lands, it’s an automatic death when off the edge. And a suicide for ganondorf. You can bait this attack by jumping out and coaxing Ganon to do an attack and making his recovery options even worse. If he uses Side B and isn’t near the edge, he’s auto dead. Though, gimping is equally as easy if he’s close to the edge. Nair, Fair. He wont get back.
Now, if he does this attack in the air and it lands, it’s an automatic death when off the edge. And a suicide for ganondorf. You can bait this attack by jumping out and coaxing Ganon to do an attack and making his recovery options even worse. If he uses Side B and isn’t near the edge, he’s auto dead. Though, gimping is equally as easy if he’s close to the edge. Nair, Fair. He wont get back.
Moves that kill:
Warlock Punch – duck it please. If not, it will kill at 20% with no DI
Ftilt – 100%
Fsmash – kills around 70% without DI
Utilt – 40%
Fair – 90-95% from halfway high.
Uair – kills at 80% offstage
Dair – 70% without DI. (grounded)
Usmash – 85%
Moves to kill with:
1. Utilt kills at 139%2. From center final D, Fair kills at 130%
3. Rest will kill at 76%
4. Fsmash will kill at 112%
5. Usmash will kill at 130%
6. Rolllout will kill at 85%
---Jigglypuff’s Advatages---
1. It is so easy to kill Ganon off the edge. Just wait for him to approach you, and punish with a gimp. It’s so easy to kill ganon that’s not even funny. How many nairs does it take to kill Ganon? 1 to take away his jump, and one to stop his up+B. Then grab the edge. Done.
2. Ganon always to approach you, and if he tries to charge a smash attack, the cooling lag is so bad that you can punish with a rollout or a rest. Though, for most smash attacks rollout is probably the optimal choice, so you don’t get punished too hard for missing rest.
3. You can duck warlock punch :D
Uair -> Rest?
I feel that no one notices this combo when it comes to fast falling or heavy characters. It’s called the Uair Uair Uair Uair… Uair rest…. It’s highly improbably at the percent in the video. But you’ll see what I mean. If you can manage to do it at 15-30% it’ll hit. Or if the person is stupid you can hit this on faster falling characters. This also works well on characters such as DK or DDD or Bowser.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQyawUDMyXk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3S_fEvjQGtI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQyawUDMyXk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3S_fEvjQGtI
