Mini Game | Werewolves win

[RadicalRat]

Don't have much time, but generic called me out and I think makes a good point. I remember seeing stuff in the first two pages that made me think you were scum, and so I think those feelings just never went away. I'm gonna read through it all again and see what I think.
Part of what makes me think both you and rat are scum is that you seem to not want to kill ThatSmasher. And because I feel positive about him, I'm frustrated that you two keep disagreeing with me.

I'm not disagreeing with you. ThatSmasher is definitely no good. I just don't think that now is the time. This Day One lynch is an opportunity to eliminate someone who could cause problems later on. A Werewolf would be EXCELLENT to get here, but even just a slightly better Mafia player. I just feel like ThatSmasher has been TOO EASY to read... and I like an easy read. We'll lynch him eventually, I just don't think that now is the time, y'know?

 

[RadicalRat]

That was when I said I wasn't twisting words around, but I was suggesting that it was a possiblity. One that I thought was unlikely anyway.

Alright, yes, that's good. If that were the only thing on you, I'd rest my case. However, there's lots more to it than that, and in the context of your numerous other errors, even if a few are minor, I can't say with 100% certainty that you WEREN'T trying to twist words around. Your "typos" seem placed in such a way that they alter the meaning of the message entirely, and if they go unnoticed could easily be used to whip up some suspicion. Like if I'd said something about my erratically changing votes, if my votes haven't actually been changing recently, that'd look bad on me. Some of our more observant participants cough @ Zalak cough would have definitely picked up on that, and my case would start to fall apart pretty quickly.

 

[TheKingofKoopas]

but his change in votes has become even more erratic when we call him out on things.

I have not once changed my vote after being called out. It's been on you ever since your defense failed to impress.

I didn't mean vote, I meant whenever you noted something. Zalak started noting things about you on page 5, and everything started happening around there.

it's like he's trying to create chaos to divert attention to himself.

That'd just be stupid if I were bad. Were I scum, I would want to keep the attention OFF of me.

I meant to say divert attention AWAY from you. My bad.

My mistakes make much more sense after I fix them, anyway. If I were intentionally making typos to trip you guys up, I would've stopped myself considering you already suspicious of it back on pages 4 and 5.

 

[Kaladin]

My mistakes make much more sense after I fix them, anyway. If I were intentionally making typos to trip you guys up, I would've stopped myself considering you already suspicious of it back on pages 4 and 5.

You're still scum, but I agree on this point.

 

[TheKingofKoopas]

You're still scum, but I agree on this point.

What else am I still scummy about?

 

[RadicalRat]

My mistakes make much more sense after I fix them, anyway. If I were intentionally making typos to trip you guys up, I would've stopped myself considering you already suspicious of it back on pages 4 and 5.

You do have a point there. I still feel like there's something off about you, but you're right about it not making sense to keep it up.

One thing I still find a bit strange is that post about my votes. Every other post I can see how you'd make the mistake typing it up. It's just that one in particular... I can't find a way to make your original post mean what you claim it does, without just scrapping it and rewriting the whole thing.

It looks more like you were trying to mix up the order of events to make me look worse. I did change my vote around, as Kary pointed out, and that'd look bad if it were after being accused. But it wasn't.

Perhaps your typos themselves aren't planted to intentionally mislead. But you could be using them as a cover story, lumping in your actual moves with them should they fail.


However, that idea falls short in the risk/reward department. Anyone could look back and check, showing the true story. Or I could have just brought it up, like I did. Meanwhile, the only possible payoff is my death. But once I'm revealed as Town, you'll look bad there too. It doesn't seem worth it to me.

However, just because it isn't a great move... Doesn't mean it's not a move at all.

 

[RadicalRat]

You're still scum, but I agree on this point.

He already asked you to elaborate, but I find it very peculiar that you'd just say he's still scum after that without automatically attaching a reason.

 

[Zalak]

You do have a point there. I still feel like there's something off about you, but you're right about it not making sense to keep it up.

One thing I still find a bit strange is that post about my votes. Every other post I can see how you'd make the mistake typing it up. It's just that one in particular... I can't find a way to make your original post mean what you claim it does, without just scrapping it and rewriting the whole thing.

It looks more like you were trying to mix up the order of events to make me look worse. I did change my vote around, as Kary pointed out, and that'd look bad if it were after being accused. But it wasn't.

Perhaps your typos themselves aren't planted to intentionally mislead. But you could be using them as a cover story, lumping in your actual moves with them should they fail.


However, that idea falls short in the risk/reward department. Anyone could look back and check, showing the true story. Or I could have just brought it up, like I did. Meanwhile, the only possible payoff is my death. But once I'm revealed as Town, you'll look bad there too. It doesn't seem worth it to me.

However, just because it isn't a great move... Doesn't mean it's not a move at all.

Wait, when did Koopa try to put you in hot water? Sorry, I'm having trouble remembering exactly what started this argument between you guys.

 

[RadicalRat]

Wait, when did Koopa try to put you in hot water? Sorry, I'm having trouble remembering exactly what started this argument between you guys.

I believe there's more, but his change in votes has become even more erratic when we call him out on things.

That's the particular quote I'm saying still stands out to me.

 

[Kaladin]

He already asked you to elaborate, but I find it very peculiar that you'd just say he's still scum after that without automatically attaching a reason.

That's one point he wins on, but the rest of my case against him still stands imo.

 

[RadicalRat]

That's one point he wins on, but the rest of my case against him still stands imo.

You still aren't answering him. What makes him still scum? I've made my case, so what's yours?

 

[Kaladin]

You still aren't answering him. What makes him still scum? I've made my case, so what's yours?

Remember back on page 4(?) when I wrote an essay about why he's scum? That's why. Although, I'm noticing some questionable things in his refutation the more I think about it. Maybe expect something on that later.

 

[SlickWylde]

This is so intense! Okay, so I don't see any particular posts that stick out from GenericHandle. But there were many posts that just gave me that feeling, but mostly just in the first 2 pages. And that's the reason I'm not voting for you. I don't vote based on gut feelings. I vote based on what makes sense. I still feel that ThatSmash is the most scummy to me.

@ R RadicalRat I understand what you're saying. Up until this last page, Koopa was a 50/50 for me. What "Typos" of his are you referring to? I'm too lazy to look back through 9 pages.

 

[Omar_25]

So uhh, I guess I'm going somewhere tomorrow pretty early in the morning. So this means that I will not be posting again until sometime later tomorrow. Hopefully there won't be too much for me to catch up on at that time.

 

[Zalak]

I'm not disagreeing with you. ThatSmasher is definitely no good. I just don't think that now is the time. This Day One lynch is an opportunity to eliminate someone who could cause problems later on. A Werewolf would be EXCELLENT to get here, but even just a slightly better Mafia player. I just feel like ThatSmasher has been TOO EASY to read... and I like an easy read. We'll lynch him eventually, I just don't think that now is the time, y'know?

You're already so certain of his guilt? All I've seen is someone going with the flow, trying to get a feel for the game. Once he got a feel for the game, he made accusations of his own. Can you explain the scum intent behind his actions? Just because there's a plausible reason for scum to do something, that doesn't mean there isn't a plausible reason for a townie to do the same thing. Which action of his was definitely the work of an evildoer?

It seems a little hasty to say ThatSmasher is "defnitely no good" at this point.

 

[Zalak]

@#HBC | Kary

You're much less active than you were in my last game with you. Does this have to do with your role as an IC, or is it something else (being busy, game is just starting, etc)?

 

[Zalak]

@ RosalinaSGS @ GreenReaperGod and @ Spak have all kinda been hiding in the shadows this game.

Green to a lesser extent, but I haven't seen him post a lot lately.

also @ Omar_25 hasn't posted too much, but i feel like he's gonna start posting more soon.

 

[Zalak]

WELL, I'm gonna hit the hay for tonight

 

[RosalinaSGS]

Isn't that a bit of a stretch? It just wouldn't be very smart to say the Mafia would do something, and then do that thing right after.


Well, no. I can understand being new to the game and doing this on the first two pages, but it seems like you're using inexperience as an excuse. Your defense is still...lacking, rubbing everyone the wrong way.


I honestly don't see how. His "So sure about that?" and "If you think I'm mafia, your loss" is essentially saying 'fine kill me then' which would be a horrible idea for a townie to say.

Vote: ThatSmasherYouKnow

That's why I said 'in this case'. I kinda realised my earlier reasoning didn't apply to that situation, so changed my reasoning half-way. And even then, I wasn't too sure, so basically just take that advice as separate advice from the situation and take my opinion on that case separately.
I agree with what you mean about the 'your loss' etc.

 

[RosalinaSGS]

We've already established it would be silly for mafia to go for a kill hard and early.

I do agree that he's *probably* scum, but I would like to observe him for another game day before passing judgement, especially to see if we can figure out who his buddies are.

Why another game day? Do you have a better candidate for today? What would we gain from letting him live another game day, rather than just a couple more irl days?

 

[RosalinaSGS]

I made a big post about why TheKigOfKoopas about a page ago.

Anyhow, I really want to see TSYK's reaction to night actions, as well as a few other things before we lynch him. He's probably scum, but it could reasonably be noobiness.

Oh, right. I personally don't think his reactions to night actions will tell us much, especially if he's prepared for it. There's a chance he might be mod-cleared, but at this point he's up on top of my to-lynch list for his 'your loss' comments.

 

[RosalinaSGS]

I made a big post about why TheKigOfKoopas about a page ago.

Anyhow, I really want to see TSYK's reaction to night actions, as well as a few other things before we lynch him. He's probably scum, but it could reasonably be noobiness.

tbh, right now I find this post and gen's one immediately above kinda sus. The previous thing's still mountain from molehill, but this is making me doubt him.

 

[RosalinaSGS]

I voted for him because right after he said a good mafia doesn't backpedal, and instead tries to explain why they were never wrong in this first place, RadicalRat tried to explain why he was never wrong in the first place about the people on his MIA list, and then backpedaled. That is very suspicious. It looks like he was trying to follow his mafia rule of thumb, but quickly realized why that wouldn't work. That's why he looks so scummy to me.


But if I hadn't called it out, he probably would have gotten away with it. You can't always defend something because it seems like too bad a play for scum to make. Even the most experienced players make mistakes like that sometimes.


I would be able to accept that answer, but lying whenever you make a mistake is not something a townie should do. Think about it this way, if you're innocent why shouldn't you tell the real reasons for your actions? It's not as if townies are expected to play perfectly 100% of the time. The only reason you should lie is if you think the truth will make you seem worse, and in this case, it didn't, or it wouldn't have had you not tried to follow your mafia rule of thumb just before admitting to it. It's the same with diverting attention away from yourself. If a townie gets a lot of attention, they should gain townie points naturally, as long as there is no bias against them. If a townie doesn't lie, they should gain townie points naturally. I'm not saying there's never a reason to lie, but I don't see one here.



That's just the thing, the truth shouldn't reveal you to be the mafioso. I have a feeling that's why you decided to lie at first (and maybe even afterwards too? I have no proof that your second statement is a lie, but your first first statement is 100% a lie.)

I'm liking Zalak, but, considering past experience, he could easily be scum and just be ******* me over.

 

[RosalinaSGS]

On page three, he says this:

"Unvote
Vote: *Generic* Has more votes, might as well help out. Still keeping an eye on Spak though."

That seems really scummy to me.

"Oh, more people are voting for Generic? I guess I'll just join in."

I don't see how that couldn't give that impression. And I'm pretty sure I'm not misconstruing his post. He made some posts later backpedaling about it, but I didn't see anything assuring me that it was just a noob mistake.

And I don't think the "It would be dumb for a Mafia to do that" argument holds up. (Which I think Generic and someone else were saying) Even experienced players do dumb things.

Liking Slick

 

[RosalinaSGS]

@ RosalinaSGS @ GreenReaperGod and @ Spak have all kinda been hiding in the shadows this game.

Green to a lesser extent, but I haven't seen him post a lot lately.

also @ Omar_25 hasn't posted too much, but i feel like he's gonna start posting more soon.

Yeah... most people live on Smashboards live in US, and I'm not going to be playing mafia at 4am (or whatever time it is)

 

[RadicalRat]

Why another game day? Do you have a better candidate for today? What would we gain from letting him live another game day, rather than just a couple more irl days?

You're absolutely correct... I was curious to see him around a bit longer IRL, but these game days are much longer than I'm used to( Like two minutes in Town of Salem ), which is why I didn't pick up on that immediately. I haven't quite gotten a feel for the timing of everything yet. I suspect I'll adapt quickly enough once we get past Day One though.

In any case, him specifying a game day is suspicious, especially considering that he hasn't been entirely cleared yet. A week is plenty of time for my wanting to watch him mess up more... But a GAME DAY would give him the opportunity to get a kill in, while I don't know that his reaction would really give us much.

With that in mind, I'm putting my vote back on ThatSmasher. I still have my misgivings about @ TheKingofKoopas , but a Werewolf takes priority.

Thank you for pointing that out, @ RosalinaSGS

 

[RadicalRat]

Unvote
Vote: @ThatSmasherYouKnow

 

[RadicalRat]

You're already so certain of his guilt? All I've seen is someone going with the flow, trying to get a feel for the game. Once he got a feel for the game, he made accusations of his own. Can you explain the scum intent behind his actions? Just because there's a plausible reason for scum to do something, that doesn't mean there isn't a plausible reason for a townie to do the same thing. Which action of his was definitely the work of an evildoer?

It seems a little hasty to say ThatSmasher is "defnitely no good" at this point.

He set a "trap" that did nothing but de-rail conversation for a bit.

His "your loss" post just OOZES scum. That kind of reverse psychology is more scummy than town-like.

Combined with the bandwagoning and minimal meaningful game input... Just doesn't look good for the guy.

Frankly, I find it a touch odd you'd be defending him. If there were more people who saw good in him, that'd be one thing, but so far you're the ONLY PERSON defending him.

 

[RadicalRat]

For those curious as to why I'd vote ThatSmasher instead of @ Kaladin after justifying my previous focus on Koopa as wanting to get the most dangerous lynched first:

My read on Gen is dependent on Smasher's exact role. If he comes up Werewolf, Generic is probably the other one. If he comes up Mafioso, Generic would be more of a Town lean to me. That IS just a LEAN however.

 

[Spak]

School time again. I'll be checking at like hour and a half intervals.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Newbie Tip:

This game uses very simple roles with no Night Abilities except the Doctor's protection and the Mafia's factional kill. In nearly all other mafia games you'll play there will be a handful of roles that are able to perform Night Actions - those are the so-called "power roles", typically abbrivated as PR. Information on how the most common PRs work can be found here.

Note though that I'll give some detailed explanations on certain PRs in the "Newbie Tips" section throughout the game. In particular I will covr PRs that are common at dGamnes so make sure you always read these tips!

~~~​

Votecount:

Voted | Voters | Votes
Omar_25 | Spak, #HBC Kary | 2 / 7
TheKingofKoopas | *GenericHandle* | 1 / 7
ThatSmasherYouKnow | SlickWylde, TheKingofKoopas, RadicalRat | 3 / 7
RadicalRat | Zalak, ThatSmasherYouKnow | 2 / 7

Not voting: GreenReaperGod, #HBC | J, RosalinaSGS, Omar_25

 

[GreenReaperGod]

@ RosalinaSGS @ GreenReaperGod and @ Spak have all kinda been hiding in the shadows this game.

Green to a lesser extent, but I haven't seen him post a lot lately.

also @ Omar_25 hasn't posted too much, but i feel like he's gonna start posting more soon.

Believe me, I've tried my best to post as often as I can, but that's just the consequence of taking four honors classes (and being stupid and forgetting about some of the summer homework). Anyways, right now:

FOS: ThatSmasherYouKnow
FOS: TheKingofKoopas

 

[Spak]

Believe me, I've tried my best to post as often as I can, but that's just the consequence of taking four honors classes (and being stupid and forgetting about some of the summer homework). Anyways, right now:

FOS: ThatSmasherYouKnow
FOS: TheKingofKoopas

I have 2 AP, an honors, and CET. Not too much free time.

But I'll try to start posting more often again. No johns.

 

[Spak]

I'd say we're a good amount out of RVS.

Unvote

Also, TSYK is still scummy in my opinion and hasn't really justified anything he's done.

Vote: ThatSmasherYouKnow

 

[RosalinaSGS]

I haven't fully caught up yet, but I'm not liking RR posts. They seem kinda fillerish, and his last post which quoted me was essentially a +1. However, for some reason, I feel he's still town. Not too sure why? Gut? I'll try to pin it down later.

 

[RosalinaSGS]

I know I'm not being asked, but I'm 90% sure that ThatSmasher is scum, 70% Generic, 65% RadicalRat (I'm 100% sure at least ONE of them is scum) 50% KingOfKoopa, and less than 50% on everyone else so far.

you seem awfully confident on Smasher. Like, 90%'s almost mod-confirmed. Care to expand how you're so confident? Do you have anything other than Smasher's 'your loss' posts?
@ R RadicalRat Also directed to you.

 

[RosalinaSGS]

I'm gonna call that a coincidence. Things picked up in general around there. More people started posting more, giving me more to be suspicious of.



You mean like you're doing now? Before you started pressuring me, you were the main target of interrogation.

Of course, I still need to give that a proper defense, otherwise I'm no better. I feel like no piece of evidence should be overlooked, so I point them out when I see them. If that's creating too much chaos, I can chill on that... but if I see anything actually major instead of the nitpicking I've been doing, I won't be holding my tongue.

I feel RR's going on about mafia theory and meta etc. without actually applying any of it himself. Just something to note

 

[RosalinaSGS]

Think about it. In the later game stages, would you rather have the good players to deal with, or the ones we've had almost confirmed since Day One? Plus, any mistakes he makes as we continue could expose his buddies.

I think i actually probably agree with this. Most of you guys are pretty confident Smasher's scum, and lynching him won't give us a starting point to discussing things D2. i.e. by lynching him we kill a mafia but have nothing to go off of D2. By killing someone else, we have more information.

 

[RosalinaSGS]

Okay, let me just state something. All my posts before the 'You so sure about that?' were just me trying to figure out how the game works. As RadRat stated, he guessed I am Town. With my reply, all of you were super fast to think I was scum. RadRat isn't the only one who can lay traps you know? So, I'm guessing RadRat and KingofKoopas are both Mafia. Rad has been making a lot of accusations, which might be pulling the attention away from him and KingofKoopas was just as quick to change his opinion on me being town. They're both voting for me to get one more town out of the way.

Feels a bit like grasping at straws, but plausible.
Really liking slick's posts.

 

[Kaladin]

Wow. After reading all that (I just woke up) TSYK has a stronger scum lean than Koops. I think that's enough additionak observation.

Unvote

Vote: ThatSmasherYouKnos