Mini Game | Werewolves win

[SlickWylde]

@ Zalak
I might have missed it somewhere in the past 5 pages, but I see that you're voting for RadicalRat. So far, that's the only vote that I don't see reasoning behind. Can you tell me what's suspicious about him/her? (Not implying it's a bad vote, I just didn't notice anything suspicious)

We need to unite on someone to lynch, but I'm not going to switch my vote just because it's popular, so I need help showing suspicious posts by people. Unless that happens, I'm going with my gut, and still voting for ThatSmasher. I think it's weird that several people suspect him, but are not voting for him...

 

[GreenReaperGod]

How exactly is giving the evil roles to the people who are already aware of some effective strategies, while pitting them against a noob force balanced?

That's not at all what I meant. I was saying that I would make one of the semis maf/wolf and the other semi a townie. This would prevent two of the more experienced players from being on the same team and thus dominating the noobs.

Also, someone (I forget whowho and don't feel like going back on mobile) used Rosa being semi-experienced as a reason to be a Werewolf.

That was my RVS vote.

 

[RadicalRat]

That's not at all what I meant. I was saying that I would make one of the semis maf/wolf and the other semi a townie. This would prevent two of the more experienced players from being on the same team and thus dominating the noobs.

Alright, that's certainly ONE possible explanation then... But in my mind, the scum would LOVE to get an experienced player out of the way Day One...

 

[Spak]

That was my RVS vote.

Oh, OK. I was interpreting it as a legit reason.

 

[GreenReaperGod]

Alright, that's certainly ONE possible explanation then... But in my mind, the scum would LOVE to get an experienced player out of the way Day One...

Not sure if you're accusing me, but my vote for Rosalina was my RVS vote.

 

[TheKingofKoopas]

HMMM

Unvote, Vote: RadicalRat

Isn't that a bit of a stretch? It just wouldn't be very smart to say the Mafia would do something, and then do that thing right after.

As for you guys thinking I'm mafia, your loss.

Well, no. I can understand being new to the game and doing this on the first two pages, but it seems like you're using inexperience as an excuse. Your defense is still...lacking, rubbing everyone the wrong way.

I don't think so. Sometimes, questioning a change can actually be a sign of towniness, as they don't take things for granted and are actually scumreading. In this case though, he may not be town, but I don't think there's enough to say he scum. It's a joke, again a mountain from a molehill. But maybe... keep it in mind.

I honestly don't see how. His "So sure about that?" and "If you think I'm mafia, your loss" is essentially saying 'fine kill me then' which would be a horrible idea for a townie to say.

Vote: ThatSmasherYouKnow

 

[SlickWylde]

@ TheKingofKoopas
I do agree that his "Your Loss" is a bad thing to say, but I do know from past games, townies do say things like this sometimes. If that was the only point against him, I'd call it weak. But I think combined with his switching and bandwagoning, it's a slip up.

I'd like to present my case against ThatSmasher. If someone disagrees, please let me know where I'm wrong. (I am an experienced Mafia player in person, this is my 2nd online game, and first time game with both Mafia and Werewolf, but I still consider myself somewhat experienced in the meta game)

@ThatSmasherYouKnow
Honestly, that statement paints yourself in a very bad light. At this point, I'm thinking you're Mafia.
If you were the Doctor, you would want to live to save us. You'd be doing everything in your power to remain alive, convincing us that you're on our side.
If you were a Werewolf, you'd want to use your power to kill, and would defend yourself more.
If you were a townie, I don't think you'd want to confuse the situation by changing votes and just voting for the most popular person.
If you you're Mafia, I think you'd want to create confusion, and get someone out asap by voting for the most popular person, which is exactly what you did.

I hope this doesn't seem like I'm personally attacking you. I will listen to well thought out counterpoints (Including from ThatSmasher, I listen to reason)

 

[Kaladin]

@ TheKingofKoopas
I do agree that his "Your Loss" is a bad thing to say, but I do know from past games, townies do say things like this sometimes. If that was the only point against him, I'd call it weak. But I think combined with his switching and bandwagoning, it's a slip up.

I'd like to present my case against ThatSmasher. If someone disagrees, please let me know where I'm wrong. (I am an experienced Mafia player in person, this is my 2nd online game, and first time game with both Mafia and Werewolf, but I still consider myself somewhat experienced in the meta game)

@ThatSmasherYouKnow
Honestly, that statement paints yourself in a very bad light. At this point, I'm thinking you're Mafia.
If you were the Doctor, you would want to live to save us. You'd be doing everything in your power to remain alive, convincing us that you're on our side.
If you were a Werewolf, you'd want to use your power to kill, and would defend yourself more.
If you were a townie, I don't think you'd want to confuse the situation by changing votes and just voting for the most popular person.
If you you're Mafia, I think you'd want to create confusion, and get someone out asap by voting for the most popular person, which is exactly what you did.

I hope this doesn't seem like I'm personally attacking you. I will listen to well thought out counterpoints (Including from ThatSmasher, I listen to reason)

We've already established it would be silly for mafia to go for a kill hard and early.

I do agree that he's *probably* scum, but I would like to observe him for another game day before passing judgement, especially to see if we can figure out who his buddies are.

 

[SlickWylde]

We've already established it would be silly for mafia to go for a kill hard and early.

I do agree that he's *probably* scum, but I would like to observe him for another game day before passing judgement, especially to see if we can figure out who his buddies are.

But it's the exact type of thing that a newer player would do as Mafia. But okay, you make a good point, I suppose.

But why TheKingOfKoopa? Because he said he's a noob?

 

[Kaladin]

But it's the exact type of thing that a newer player would do as Mafia. But okay, you make a good point, I suppose.

But why TheKingOfKoopa? Because he said he's a noob?

I made a big post about why TheKigOfKoopas about a page ago.

Anyhow, I really want to see TSYK's reaction to night actions, as well as a few other things before we lynch him. He's probably scum, but it could reasonably be noobiness.

 

[RadicalRat]

But it's the exact type of thing that a newer player would do as Mafia. But okay, you make a good point, I suppose.

But why TheKingOfKoopa? Because he said he's a noob?

Because there are only two possibilities with him. He's making noob mistakes as Town, or he's being a particularly clever Mafia.

I think for now we should work against the dangerous players before they get to do any real damage.

Don't misconstrue this as an attempt to defend ThatSmasher though. He's on my official Mafia list, but if we leave him around long enough, he might reveal his buddies like he revealed himself.

 

[SlickWylde]

@ Kaladin Just read that post. What's funny is I did the same thing as @ R RadicalRat . I think I still had you in my sights as scum, so I didn't really read that post.

I'd like to get more input from others, before switching my vote. (I find it suspicious when someone changes their vote easily)

 

[Zalak]

@ Zalak
I might have missed it somewhere in the past 5 pages, but I see that you're voting for RadicalRat. So far, that's the only vote that I don't see reasoning behind. Can you tell me what's suspicious about him/her? (Not implying it's a bad vote, I just didn't notice anything suspicious)

We need to unite on someone to lynch, but I'm not going to switch my vote just because it's popular, so I need help showing suspicious posts by people. Unless that happens, I'm going with my gut, and still voting for ThatSmasher. I think it's weird that several people suspect him, but are not voting for him...

I voted for him because right after he said a good mafia doesn't backpedal, and instead tries to explain why they were never wrong in this first place, RadicalRat tried to explain why he was never wrong in the first place about the people on his MIA list, and then backpedaled. That is very suspicious. It looks like he was trying to follow his mafia rule of thumb, but quickly realized why that wouldn't work. That's why he looks so scummy to me.

Isn't that a bit of a stretch? It just wouldn't be very smart to say the Mafia would do something, and then do that thing right after.

But if I hadn't called it out, he probably would have gotten away with it. You can't always defend something because it seems like too bad a play for scum to make. Even the most experienced players make mistakes like that sometimes.

Of course there's a correlation there. A good mafioso acts like the Town, and therefore my Town strategy and Mafia strategy are going to be as similar as possible here to make my Mafia game harder to read.The difference lies in who I target.

I would be able to accept that answer, but lying whenever you make a mistake is not something a townie should do. Think about it this way, if you're innocent why shouldn't you tell the real reasons for your actions? It's not as if townies are expected to play perfectly 100% of the time. The only reason you should lie is if you think the truth will make you seem worse, and in this case, it didn't, or it wouldn't have had you not tried to follow your mafia rule of thumb just before admitting to it. It's the same with diverting attention away from yourself. If a townie gets a lot of attention, they should gain townie points naturally, as long as there is no bias against them. If a townie doesn't lie, they should gain townie points naturally. I'm not saying there's never a reason to lie, but I don't see one here.

If that isn't enough to satisfy you, consider this... Why would I answer an obviously loaded question like that with anything that could possibly be used to reveal me as a mafioso? The fact they I gave a decent answer is proof of my innocence.

That's just the thing, the truth shouldn't reveal you to be the mafioso. I have a feeling that's why you decided to lie at first (and maybe even afterwards too? I have no proof that your second statement is a lie, but your first first statement is 100% a lie.)

 

[#HBC | Kary]

To be completely honest, I'm sort of leaning towards neutral for GenHand. However, I'm not going to make a final decision and vote until the rest of the players (J, Slick, Omar, Rosalina) have made some significant posts.

ay ay ay

so what you're saying is you would rather sit on your hands and avoid sticking your neck out, huh?

I want to hear more original ideas from him. All I've seen him do is bandwagon. I can't form a solid opinion until I know more about him as a player, but if I had to say right now, I'd go scum lean.

scum lean? I am curious to hear the reasoning for this read- please.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

That said, you are clearly new to the SmashBoards, if nothing else, and you've not offered many thoughts of your own, which would make sense if you're an uncertain noob, mildly confused by what's going on here. I feel like if he were a noob in a Scum team, his Scum Buddy/Buddies would be feeding him stuff to say in here.

All things considered, I'm going to CAUTIOUSLY lean Town.

who's scum?

 

[Kaladin]

RadicalRat is on my investigation list, but I would submit that it is necessary to observe him more before lynching a potential townie.

 

[Zalak]

scum lean? I am curious to hear the reasoning for this read- please.

Sorry, I should have been more clear, that's only if I had to pick town or scum. Like I said, what I really want is for him to post more. Anyways, the reason I chose scum lean is because of his explanation of his accusation of Spak.

Uh, I'm confused. You liked Spak's post about accidental D1 lynching, so I'm assuming you agreed with him. What other reason would you vote for him?

-___- Don't trust anyone.

This is bandwagoning in its purest form. He's not saying "yeah, I agree with Kary, Spak was defending Generic and that is suspcious". All I hear is "I'm voting for Spak because he already has votes". I feel like this might just be because he's new though, and I have a feeling we'll be hearing better explanations from him as the game goes on.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Newbie Tip:

Although it's not its main purpose you can also use the dGames Social Thread to ask general questions about mafia as long as it's not directly related to an ongoing game. Whether you ask about playstyle, strategy or roles - chances are that you'll get some useful input from experienced players who have countles games under their belt

~~~​

Votecount:

Voted | Voters | Votes
Omar_25 | Spak, #HBC Kary | 2 / 7
TheKingofKoopas | *GenericHandle*, RadicalRat | 2 / 7
ThatSmasherYouKnow | SlickWylde, TheKingofKoopas | 2 / 7
RadicalRat | Zalak | 1 / 7

Not voting: GreenReaperGod, ThatSmasherYouKnow, #HBC | J, RosalinaSGS, Omar_25

 

[#HBC | Kary]

I think I'll go ahead and make it official.

Unvote
Vote: TheKingofKoopas

you're very eager to move your vote around, eh. kind of makes me doubt your sincerity a little.

I don't really have much to add that hasn't been said, but I do find ThatSmasher suspicious. I'm worried with his reasoning. Seems weird that he'd just want to get rid of a person, even though he finds someone else suspicious (I believe he said he was suspicious of Spak). That doesn't seem very Town.

show me where TSYK says this please. I didn't get that impression.

 

[Kaladin]

you're very eager to move your vote around, eh. kind of makes me doubt your sincerity a little.



show me where TSYK says this please. I didn't get that impression.

On the contrary, Rat waited until there was solid evidence against bowser and bowser attempted to refute that evidence before changing his vote. Not eagar at all.

 

[Kaladin]

Newbie Tip:

Although it's not its main purpose you can also use the dGames Social Thread to ask general questions about mafia as long as it's not directly related to an ongoing game. Whether you ask about playstyle, strategy or roles - chances are that you'll get some useful input from experienced players who have countles games under their belt

~~~​

Votecount:

Voted | Voters | Votes
Omar_25 | Spak, #HBC Kary | 2 / 7
TheKingofKoopas | *GenericHandle*, RadicalRat | 2 / 7
ThatSmasherYouKnow | SlickWylde, TheKingofKoopas | 2 / 7
RadicalRat | Zalak | 1 / 7

Not voting: GreenReaperGod, ThatSmasherYouKnow, #HBC | J, RosalinaSGS, Omar_25

I would like to point out to everyone: we're getting TSYK for bandwagoning, but as of right now he's not voting.

 

[Spak]

I would like to point out to everyone: we're getting TSYK for bandwagoning, but as of right now he's not voting.

That's because he panicked and stopped voing whenever we accused him of bandwagoning.

 

[TheKingofKoopas]

I'm gonna keep my vote on Smasher for now. Unless what he says when he comes back from school is meanwhile, I feel like we're gonna get the same results.

I would like to point out to everyone: we're getting TSYK for bandwagoning, but as of right now he's not voting.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I tried looking back, and I can't find where he said "unvote." The last I saw, he voted for you.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

On the contrary, Rat waited until there was solid evidence against bowser and bowser attempted to refute that evidence before changing his vote. Not eagar at all.

So what you're saying is you like RadR because he agrees with you. Good to know.

 

[TheKingofKoopas]

Okay, so Smasher never said unvote. He still technically has a vote on Generic.
Even though he said

I'm not so sure about Generic anymore

that's because he said I was suspicious after you guys were accusing me.

 

[GreenReaperGod]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I tried looking back, and I can't find where he said "unvote." The last I saw, he voted for you.

I wasn't able to find where he said unvote either.

ay ay ay

so what you're saying is you would rather sit on your hands and avoid sticking your neck out, huh?

For right now yeah. I'd rather get to know all of the other players before I make any rash voting decisions.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

As a rule of thumb, it is a bad idea to look for groups of players who make sense as scum until you know that one of them is scum (i.e. one of them is dead). Who is and isnt scum is determined randomly, and just because one player defended another, or two players seem like they might be scum together, doesn't make them scummier.

I have a theory that explains that. If he's a Werewolf, @ SlickWylde has been MIA the whole game so far, excepting his most recent post. If he were the other Werewolf, Bowser would be unable to cooperate with him.

This is a terrible theory

 

[#HBC | Kary]

For right now yeah. I'd rather get to know all of the other players before I make any rash voting decisions.

and that's fine in itself, but it sounds like you're giving yourself an excuse to do nothing- basically because you don't seem to be actively trying to get to know the other players.

 

[Kaladin]

So what you're saying is you like RadR because he agrees with you. Good to know.

No. I simply pointed out that he waited before vote changing.

 

[SlickWylde]

you're very eager to move your vote around, eh. kind of makes me doubt your sincerity a little.



show me where TSYK says this please. I didn't get that impression.

On page three, he says this:

"Unvote
Vote: *Generic* Has more votes, might as well help out. Still keeping an eye on Spak though."

That seems really scummy to me.

"Oh, more people are voting for Generic? I guess I'll just join in."

I don't see how that couldn't give that impression. And I'm pretty sure I'm not misconstruing his post. He made some posts later backpedaling about it, but I didn't see anything assuring me that it was just a noob mistake.

And I don't think the "It would be dumb for a Mafia to do that" argument holds up. (Which I think Generic and someone else were saying) Even experienced players do dumb things.

 

[RadicalRat]

Not sure if you're accusing me, but my vote for Rosalina was my RVS vote.

Yes, but even RVS votes have something to them. They can't just be 100% taken seriously, which is why you aren't on the Mafia List... But it's still worth noting.

 

[GreenReaperGod]

and that's fine in itself, but it sounds like you're giving yourself an excuse to do nothing- basically because you don't seem to be actively trying to get to know the other players.

Honestly I feel like I am. Your opinion might defer, but then again you've been playing this much longer than I have.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

No. I simply pointed out that he waited before vote changing.

yeah, he waited one post.

 

[TheKingofKoopas]

Yes, but even RVS votes have something to them. They can't just be 100% taken seriously, which is why you aren't on the Mafia List... But it's still worth noting.

I see nothing wrong with that vote, especially if you're saying that he'd want to get a "semi-experienced player" out of the way. On RVS.

 

[RadicalRat]

So what you're saying is you like RadR because he agrees with you. Good to know.

Actually, I've got some evidence refuting that statement.

Why not target an obviously intelligent and thus dangerous player like Radical?

This is in Generic's post outlining his defense. I had to stop and consider whether this was just an attempt at flattery, but the rest of the logic in the post holds steady to me, with nothing jumping out as immediately suspicious. This shows that his support of me was BEFORE we were in agreement, and was in fact while he was the prime suspect.


My next post will be my own defense.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

Honestly I feel like I am. Your opinion might defer, but then again you've been playing this much longer than I have.

I didn't make myself clear. What I mean is, you said:

I'm not going to make a final decision and vote until the rest of the players (J, Slick, Omar, Rosalina) have made some significant posts.

but you didn't do anything to try and involve those players. which is why it seems more like an excuse than a genuine desire to get a read on everyone.

this isnt a damning point by any means, it is just something I noticed.

 

[GreenReaperGod]

I didn't make myself clear. What I mean is, you said:



but you didn't do anything to try and involve those players. which is why it seems more like an excuse than a genuine desire to get a read on everyone.

this isnt a damning point by any means, it is just something I noticed.

I figured that they'd post when they'd be able to.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

Actually, I've got some evidence refuting that statement.

Kary asks RR something
GH interrupts
Kary replies to GH
RR interrupts

get a gogdamn room already

 

[SlickWylde]

I figured that they'd post when they'd be able to.

I don't think it paints you as scum, but I get Kary's point. I played a game where the mafia won because someone didn't vote, and they were really hoping (based on conversation after) that nobody would tag him. So if you mention a person and don't tag them, it could be viewed as using them for an excuse.

 

[RadicalRat]

I would be able to accept that answer, but lying whenever you make a mistake is not something a townie should do. Think about it this way, if you're innocent why shouldn't you tell the real reasons for your actions? It's not as if townies are expected to play perfectly 100% of the time. The only reason you should lie is if you think the truth will make you seem worse, and in this case, it didn't, or it wouldn't have had you not tried to follow your mafia rule of thumb just before admitting to it. It's the same with diverting attention away from yourself. If a townie gets a lot of attention, they should gain townie points naturally, as long as there is no bias against them. If a townie doesn't lie, they should gain townie points naturally. I'm not saying there's never a reason to lie, but I don't see one here.

It was a natural reaction. Like I said, my strategies as Town and Mafia are going to be as similar as possible. As such, I'm going to have a similar mindset going into them. As Mafia my buddies would be on a sort of blacklist to my spotlight, but otherwise the same thing applies, finding any minute slip up, and focusing on it until either someone cracks, with me as a Townie, or I can convince people they did, with me as a Mafioso.

In either case, keeping my credibility up is important, and as such, covering my own tracks is an instinct. You called me out on it, prompting me to reveal the true answer, however.