Mindgames dont exist: The Truth

[ºOblivionº]

omg why did you bump this ? Seriously, this thread is not going any where. No one is willing to accept the fact that mindgames dont exist. They keep saying the same crap over and over and over, and mog87, cort and brookman keep saying the same **** thing over and over and over. Most redundant thread of all time.

I agree with you mog87, that mindgames dont exist. However, there is no way in hell you will be able to convince very much people that mindgames dont exist, because people dont want to deny their existance. It doesn't really matter how logical your explanations are for the non-existance of mindgames. People are simply refusing to believe it.

In smash, there are several elements. There is experience, intelligence, and knowledge on how to apply tech skill. People who have 'amazing mindgames' simply have more of the latter. IMO.

I posted this a while back(and I mean a while back...) that when someone posts 'get better mindgames' wtf does that mean.

Seriously, how the hell do you get better mindgames? People say that the difference between pros and other smashers is mindgames. Well, how the **** did they get the mindgames in the first place ? Did it come to them in a dream ? Did a pro wake up from bed and yell "I have teh uber mindgrainz !!! I am a pro at smash bros now ".

The problem with the term 'mindgame', is that its actually meaning is really really vague, and as a result, it has no meaning at all any more.

Okay, some people also say that mindgames come from experience. WTf? I thought experience comes from experience. What if, mindgames are experience. Why dont we all say the term 'experience' instead of the term 'mindgame'? Pros obviously have more experience then a regular smasher, and that is one reason why they are pros not joes ( lol ) .

What about a person's intelligence. Seems that is also a mindgame. Omg that guy wavedashed away from that fsmash. He has teh uber mindgrainz ! Or maybe that guy anticipated that fsmash because his opponent spams it. Intelligence ? or Mindgames ? Who knows ? Seems like smart players have awesome mindgames, while dumb players have not so awesome mindgames. I guess you can say, mindgames are also intelligence as well.

My point is, you can play more intelligently, and you can gain more experience. But, can you gain more mindgames ? Maybe gaining more mindgames involves another mindgame ? (head explodes)

Very good post.

 

[UnChienAndalousa]

you are ********. all mindgame are, are tricking people into stuff. thats it. there is mindgames in chess.. theres mindgames in almost every competitive sport. you are ********.

This post is mostly ********, but partly true. In chess, opponents often make unusual moves based on lines they've analyzed before or during the match, and they hope that the opponent mistakenly makes a move that sets them up for a game winning tactic. Mindgames in smash are much the same, except they don't call it that in chess... it's just making correct moves.

 

[pikachun00b7]

Ok, I going to main Falcon and use Falcon punch only.
Since mindgames don't exist, they will ALWAYS work.

 

[v3x?]

You cant rightfully say whether something exists until you can properly define it.

I bet everyone here would define them differently.

I think of them as tricks, and i beat people with them, so **** you

 

[gnosis]

The term 'mind games' didn't come from Smash, so I don't see how Smash could disprove their existence.

I'm wikischooling this necro'd thread. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mind_game

Though I admit it's weird to see the phrase 'master of mind games' outside of Smashboards.

edit: Yeah, I know, different conception of mind games than most people have for Smash.
But the fact that someone could point that out goes to explain that, yes, there is a concrete conception (out there, somewhere...) for mind games when Smashers use the word. That was my point :D

 

[x4FoSho4x]

Mog is in my crew in the subdivision. lol. just had to say that.

Ummm mindgames....ok some ones falco would djwaveland back and fsmash the person thought you would land in place but you fooled him and capitalized on it. I know what I just said exist and works. If you call it mindgames then fine. You are playing games with their mind.

I've heard some poor poor explanations and some really good ones on how mindgames don't exist. My input doesn't affect anything what so ever. I don't even know what to think about this really.

 

[Giggidax]

my mindgames are superior

 

[flaco]

there always midgames in smashbros melle trust me I had expirence myself

 

[Rook]

you are ********. all mindgame are, are tricking people into stuff. thats it. there is mindgames in chess. theres mindgames in almost every competitive sport. you are ********.

ha g-reg is the best

 

[KillL0ck]

They are nothing but lies and fables made up by the Man to oppress the people. But seriously Im sick of hearing it every other sentence, the usage of the word is overly saturated and doesnt even mean anything. In other sports or competive events they have intangibles in smash everything is mindgames this mindgames that.

And I love all the psuedo analysts that can see the "mindgames" or lack off, by watching a couple of videos. Also it seems others use these "mindgames" as a blanket of comfort against their lack of technical(another annoying word) ability.

In short I think anytime the word mindgame(s) is used it should be substitued with some other dummy word(like the gay wii thing). This will not solve anything as the context will still be the same but it would be somewhat amusing.

In closing as the late rick james, parodied by chappelle, would say **** YO' MINDGAMES!!

I'll be the first to point out that mind games are NOT nothing but lies and fables. On the contrary; Mind games are a great way to get in hit's unexpectedly, in return it racks up damage and keeps your opponent tangled in confusion, while Technical skill, which I might add doesn't win matches alone, is more straight forward, and at most times predictable.

It takes both Mind games and Technical skill to win a match; with a hint of luck of course.

The name Mind games though is a perfect fit, it's original to the game and is still fresh. Just because your friends or your friends friends over use the word doesn't mean the "Majority" do. All in all it's still just a phrase, call it what you want: Confusion, Mind games, Hover Tactics etc,etc. But in the end it all plasters itself into the same meaning.

Horrible rant my good Sir.

 

[Illos]

OMG This thread is a mindgame!!!

 

[Brookman]

mind games are just gimmicky tactics/tricks/novelties. Mind games only exist when they work, otherwise they are stupid decisions.

 

[v3x?]

mind games are just gimmicky tactics/tricks/novelties. Mind games only exist when they work, otherwise they are stupid decisions.

Getting forced into those stupid desisions is when you have just GOT mindgamed... Or just a failure.

 

[Rage.]

This thread is still going on?

 

[x4FoSho4x]

I'll be the first to point out that mind games are NOT nothing but lies and fables. On the contrary; Mind games are a great way to get in hit's unexpectedly, in return it racks up damage and keeps your opponent tangled in confusion, while Technical skill, which I might add doesn't win matches alone, is more straight forward, and at most times predictable.

It takes both Mind games and Technical skill to win a match; with a hint of luck of course.

The name Mind games though is a perfect fit, it's original to the game and is still fresh. Just because your friends or your friends friends over use the word doesn't mean the "Majority" do. All in all it's still just a phrase, call it what you want: Confusion, Mind games, Hover Tactics etc,etc. But in the end it all plasters itself into the same meaning.

Horrible rant my good Sir.

son you have 2 posts and you sounded like you knew what you were talkin about. good ****.

 

[Brookman]

Here is a series of hypothetical situations regarding mind games:

PC chris(falco) vs. someguy(who cares)

PC short hops at someguy and wavelands backwards. Someguy whiffs a grab. PC forwward smashes him. MIND GAMES!!!

PC chris(falco) vs. someotherguy(who cares?)

PC short hops at someotherguy. Someotherguy grabs pre-emptively. PC gets back throw off the stage and killed like a noob. MIND GAMES!!!

player 1 vs. player 2.

1 jumps at two and and 2 upsmashes. MIND GAMES!!

1 rolls, two smashes him. MIND GAMES!!!

As you can see, everything in melee is mind games.

 

[KillL0ck]

son you have 2 posts and you sounded like you knew what you were talkin about. good ****.

Thank you?

 

[SLAYERCoLdKiLr]

Its called decision making, if you wanna call it mind games too thats fine, you can also call it a reflex, a strategy that is written in mid game, something that doesn't go along with a person's playing style. One person on this thread, just one person tell me without a shadow of a doubt that they go into a tournament game thinking..."Ok, his edge game is great, so ill try coming fast and overhead, he dash dances a lot close by so i need to shine faster, and thats what I will focus on" and then come the game you don't do anything different than your strategy. It's called thinking on your feet, it's called mindgames. This thread is ******** with people saying yes there are and no there isn't. If your someone out there that doesn't think mindgames is real, you won't deny that people read the other player and try and think one step before they act, and if you're a person that thinks mindgames are real, then you gotta admit that every word I said can be allocable to mindgames. Everyone on this thread is on the same mindset, but the word is what is so ****ing ********.

End the thread with a word that everyone can agree on, lets call em ****ing "Mang Games"

 

[Brookman]

let's just call them bananas. If someone has bad mind games then their bananas are rotten, if they are good you have ripe bananas.

 

[McCloud]

I believe they call them "crossovers" in the realm of basketball..

 

[x4FoSho4x]

lmao mccloud. yea ppl with low post counts usually say really dumb things. like me. only i have 1000 + posts. Bc im a NY smasher, and that means im good. lol.

 

[Red Exodus]

Someone bumped this halfassed rant from hell? *unsubscribes*

 

[rubiksfriend]

Someone bumped this halfassed rant from hell? *unsubscribes*

Lol. "Mindgemas don exits"... sound familiar?

 

[Puffer]

They are nothing but lies and fables made up by the Man to oppress the people. But seriously Im sick of hearing it every other sentence, the usage of the word is overly saturated and doesnt even mean anything. In other sports or competive events they have intangibles in smash everything is mindgames this mindgames that.

And I love all the psuedo analysts that can see the "mindgames" or lack off, by watching a couple of videos. Also it seems others use these "mindgames" as a blanket of comfort against their lack of technical(another annoying word) ability.

In short I think anytime the word mindgame(s) is used it should be substitued with some other dummy word(like the gay wii thing). This will not solve anything as the context will still be the same but it would be somewhat amusing.

In closing as the late rick james, parodied by chappelle, would say **** YO' MINDGAMES!!

I'm tempted to agree with this guy - partially, anyway. Mindgames DO exist in Smash; they exist in every competitive game that's ever been made. However, the term "mindgames" comes up so often and is misused so often that it's evident that many people don't actually understand what they are. I hear "mindgames, mindgames, mindgames" so much it's disgusting sometimes.

Mindgames are elements of Smash that transcend the physical "mechanics" of the game - the problem is, the mechanics of Smash can be pretty difficult to master on their own. Knowing the mechanics of Smash means you know which moves to use to counter your opponent's moves, you know which move has priority against another, you know how far your up-B recovery jump will take you, you know the relative cooldown time of each of your attacks, etc. etc. etc. Basically, what I'm saying is that knowing the MECHANICS of the game well can get you quite far...very far, in fact. The trick is to be able to "put into practice" your knowledge of the mechanics, and if it weren't for MINDGAMES, we'd ALL be able to do that in a relatively short amount of time.

The concept of mindgames is not nearly as "advanced" as most people make them sound. Mindgames occur in each and every game of Smash, from the lowliest newb to the loftiest pro. All games have mindgames. If they didn't, we'd essentially be like supercomputers, playing each other and rapidly calculating the probability of the most successful move, etc. etc. etc. Of course, we're not. There's something else that gets in the way, and that's mindgames. They're not advanced; in fact they're childishly simple when you actually think about what's going on.

What ARE mindgames? Well, you can classify them as one of two things (they're actually different versions of the same thing, but oh well):

1. "Predicting" what your opponent will do, either through pattern recognition or from past experience with such a player, and making them pay for it. If you're Link and you notice that your opponent is constantly dodging your hookshot attempts, you can punish him/her for doing this by, next time, using up-B instead of the hookshot. Your opponent, meanwhile, has not really been applying mindgames in dodging your hookshot; he is following the MECHANICS of the game and doing what he knows to work. And it does work, until you pick up his pattern and turn it against him. Of course, some might say that you yourself would be following the mechanics of the game just like he was. True, you are - but you are also able to pick up on the patterns he's using and take advantage of them.

2. Keeping yourself "unpredictable" (a.k.a. "tricking out" your opponent) - essentially, another version of #1. While in #1, you predict what you're opponent will do, here you make sure that your opponent can't predict what YOU will do. This is much harder than the first, because you actually have to be thinking like your opponent and ASSUMING that they will be attempting to use "Mindgame #1" on you. If you assume that they're using this but they're NOT, you'll suffer for it. However, if they ARE attempting to look for patterns in your play, then you stand a good chance of throwing them off guard. Let's say you're Link again and you come down with an aerial on your opponent's shield, and then use your hookshot. You grab him, and he thinks, "Crud - next time he hits my shield with an aerial, I'll dodge so he can't hit me with his hookshot." At this point, you should be thinking, "Okay, so he's gonna try to avoid my hookshot. Therefore, I'll up-B so I can hit him in his dodge." And the next time you come down on his shield, you up-B instead, and hit him out of his dodge. Obviously, this won't work every time. But the very act of keeping your attack patterns random will cover you more than if you tried "playing by the mechanics" of the game and simply repeating things that appear to work. Because if your opponent is actively searching for such patterns, you're dead.

3. The Psychological Factor - this involves playing on the weaknesses of the human mind. Spamming projectiles to frustrate your opponent and getting them to do stupid moves that they'd NEVER do if they were "playing by the mechanics" and actually focusing on the game. Doing little "wavedash routines" to intimidate your opponent (especially if they're incapable of wavedashing themselves). Using moves like Marth's forward smash frequently to keep your opponent on edge and nervous. This category of mindgame is probably the simplest - it involves the least amount of "mindwork", and people can often reap the effects of this mindgame without actually KNOWING that they're using it.

So we now reach a point where we know what mindgames are: the art of predicting your opponent's actions, while keeping your own unpredictable, and attempting to scramble your opponent's calm/focus/cool by using certain styles of play. All this ON TOP of knowing the mechanics of the game inside and out. I think that what separates the top players from everyone else is their ability to put into practice the mechanics of the game while simultaneously remaining aware of the mindgames. Sometimes, if you focus too hard on "mindgaming" your opponent, you pass up lots of easy opportunities to punish your opponent just by using the mechanics of the game. Likewise, if you try too hard to play "by the mechanics", you end up using lots of predictable patterns that are easily punished by your opponent. The best players can tread that fine line between MECHANICS and MINDGAMES and know exactly when to use what. For 99% of Smashers, that's nearly impossible to do. That 1% is the portion of Smashers that can do it.

And please - no one can say after seeing a certain video that "such and such a player was mindgaming/being mindgamed at this point." Sorry, but you DON'T KNOW - perhaps that player made a stupid mistake; we're all humans. Perhaps that player used a move that he/she didn't MEAN to use, but luckily worked anyway. Perhaps that player was playing by the mechanics when he should have been mindgaming. Perhaps that player was mindgaming too hard and passed up some easy hits. You just don't know from watching a video what was happening. You can guess, but there's no way of knowing whether you're right or wrong about it.

There's mindgames for you.

 

[AlphaZealot]

I was going to close this after its bump, but Puffer made an excellent post that I think others may find insightful/significant/want to comment on/refute/whatever.

There are instances where you can quite literally witness some of the simple tricks that occur in video, to an obviousness that leaves only one conclusion: that one person tricked the other into doing something.

 

[omG_A_coW]

amen to that

p.s. why the heck am i up this late..... BECAUSE IM WRITING AN ESSAY *yawn*

p.p.s darn...the red color of your name alpha has made me hungry...

 

[Alphicans]

Mr. T pities the inbred fool who posts this monkey ****. Saying mindgames don't exist is basically saying strategy doesn't exist, which as with any game is simply not true. It's like at my first tourney when people first started using advanced techniques like SHFFL's and wavedashes on me before I knew what they were. I remember being like "wtf is this ****?!" Regardless of their superior technical skill at that point, me and my friend still won quite a few matches simply because of some opponents lack of any strategy whatsoever. Mindgames ftw, son. Lack of them = anal **** by anyone with half a brain.

Wow i am reading this topic and i am reading to all these funny posts, but this one just tops it off! Saying that mindgames is stratagey is just dumb -.-. Stratagey is the use of a characters advantages and using them well at that, and also forms tactics in which surprises the opponent (which is not quite mindgames due to the fact you are not tricking your opponent).

 

[Ophelius]

You want unpredictable?



PINK PIHRANA PEANUT BUTTER PANTYHOSE!!!!

There you go.

 

[inside]

Mindgames definitely do work for me, well on other people actually, when the laugh if I'm dash dancing they usually get it at whatever I throw at em.

 

[Taj278]

Shadow Claw 2 Mindgames IMO.

 

[Prince Of Fire]

They are nothing but lies and fables made up by the Man to oppress the people. But seriously Im sick of hearing it every other sentence, the usage of the word is overly saturated and doesnt even mean anything. In other sports or competive events they have intangibles in smash everything is mindgames this mindgames that.

And I love all the psuedo analysts that can see the "mindgames" or lack off, by watching a couple of videos. Also it seems others use these "mindgames" as a blanket of comfort against their lack of technical(another annoying word) ability.

In short I think anytime the word mindgame(s) is used it should be substitued with some other dummy word(like the gay wii thing). This will not solve anything as the context will still be the same but it would be somewhat amusing.

In closing as the late rick james, parodied by chappelle, would say **** YO' MINDGAMES!!

You are an idiot.

 

[cultofrubik]

Puffer... excellently worded post. Not only do you deserve a Mars bar, but you really put a strong definition of the term "mindgames." If you ever show up at a Gigabits tourney for some reason in Orlando, Florida, like seriously, I'll buy you a Mars bar. And maybe a Klondike bar too.

 

[GLCH]

Why do all the moderators want to ban everything and anything? I'm glad they didn't close this cuz I wanted to post something.. I agree that this was orignially a joke.. I don't think anybody could be that stupid.. Wavedash, Dashdance, Standing still, Walking up to the character at the start of the match and resting someone... All things that will fake someone out.. How can you debate on a fact? It's invalid.. So, congrats on getting a lot of posts.. lol

P.S. I also think you just don't want to conform cuz you're emo..

 

[TheLake]

I fear no mindgame...except of course the dreaded falcon kick to walking falcon punch mindgame...

Cursed thing gets me everytime!

1 point to mindgames existing/ 0 to mindgames not exisiting

 

[Sup Dawg]

Mindgames definetly exist. How else can you explain the feeling of being tricked, used, or vulnerable after someone has played mindgames on you? If we could anticipate the outcome of someone's mindgame, then what is the point of using that as a term to describe fooling someone in Melee by performing unexpected moves?

I'm sure that there isn't a smasher out there that can detect what an opponent is thinking of trying to do to trick the other every time. If that were possible, then why try to play mindgames?

The reality is, that they exist, and they work.

 

[PwnyRide]

Zelda's Up B > Mog87

Need i say more?

 

[RazeveX]

oh my god...

we need a saying for mindgames like they have for tiers (tires don exits)

mindgames (in my opinion) is anything you can do to trick your opponent. If there were no mindgames, we would all be perfect computers, and no one would ever win a game of smash, because no one will ever be caught off guard by an attack.

This is quite possibly one of the stupidest threads i have ever read.

No, really.

And i just read one on Stephanie from Lazytown for brawl.

I'm super cereal about this.

 

[flaco]

ok hold up mindgames do exist just ask ken my friend also tiers do exist thats a joke my friend

 

[Puffer]

Puffer... excellently worded post. Not only do you deserve a Mars bar, but you really put a strong definition of the term "mindgames." If you ever show up at a Gigabits tourney for some reason in Orlando, Florida, like seriously, I'll buy you a Mars bar. And maybe a Klondike bar too.

Thanks a bunch, although I'll probably never show up in Florida...I'm over here in San Diego, California, you see. It'd be quite hard for me to make it to one of those - if I ever managed to, however, I'm sure it'd be fun.

 

[Cort]

Only if your opponent lets you.Only if your opponent lets you.Only if your opponent lets you.Only if your opponent lets you.Only if your opponent lets you.