Mindgames dont exist: The Truth

[Puffer]

Why do all the moderators want to ban everything and anything? I'm glad they didn't close this cuz I wanted to post something.. I agree that this was orignially a joke.. I don't think anybody could be that stupid.. Wavedash, Dashdance, Standing still, Walking up to the character at the start of the match and resting someone... All things that will fake someone out.. How can you debate on a fact? It's invalid.. So, congrats on getting a lot of posts.. lol

P.S. I also think you just don't want to conform cuz you're emo..

Hold on a sec, dude..."Wavedash, Dashdance, Standing still, ....(etc.)" equals mindgames? These techniques certainly CAN be used as mindgames, but only if your opponent "allows" it, so to speak - wavedashing and dashdancing are mechanical aspects of the game, just like every other move that can be performed, and thus they have straight, mechanical counters that can be used against them. Again, you can't assume that "wavedashing = mindgames." That's the exact mistake that so many people make on these forums; they think "such-and-such technique = instant mindgames." No, they don't - they only act as mindgames if they cause your opponent to make mistakes/perform techniques that they otherwise wouldn't have made if they were playing the game "by the mechanics." True, people can be intimidated by wavedashing and dashdancing - it's happened to ME before. However, it ONLY happens this way if you ALLOW it to...you can just as easily realize that your opponent is trying to "mindgame" you, and then exploit the obvious flaws in what they're trying to do. That's one of the dangers of focusing too hard on mindgaming - you open yourself up to very easy counters that can be achieved by simply following the mechanics of the game. If both players are focusing on "mindgaming", then oftentimes it comes down to who HAPPENS to pull out the right technique at the right time. If you enter a game planning to "mindgame" your opponent, watch out - if your opponent KNOW that you're trying too hard to play mindgames, he'll simply watch for the stupid little "tricks" you'll attempt to throw him off guard, and then he'll punish you for each and every one of them. The luxury will be his, because he's not even WORRYING about mindgames; he's only following the mechanical rules of the game to exploit your obvious attempt at "pulling the fancy stuff." This is probably why so many "good" Smashers lose to "newbs" - the "good" players are trying too hard to mindgame and not taking into account the mechanical aspects of the game that would actually be serving them better in this case.

 

[Alphicans]

Puffer you should write a book on the theory of smashbros

 

[Junpappy]

The fact that this thread is still alive is proof of the existence of mindgames.

 

[Sandwich]

Mindgames exist.

Just not as much as the forum claims.
Like Puffer said.

0-100% Death combo= NOT MINDGAMES
0-100% Combo with the opponent screwing up= MINDGAMES

The term is used waaaay too much.


By me, too.

 

[Yoshi'stheBombers7]

I think I was mindgamed into posting into this thread, thus proving the existence of it.

 

[Silhouette]

mindgames are what u make of them.

 

[choknater]

LOL nice yoshi's

anyways guys it's spelled MINDGAMMEZ, not mindgames

 

[Yoshi'stheBombers7]

anyways guys it's spelled MINDGAMMEZ, not mindgames

Wow, I was even MINDGAMMEZED into incorrect spelling too.

 

[Iamthemovie]

I was expecting the first post to be
"Lol they do exist. Mindgame'd"

 

[Puffer]

Puffer you should write a book on the theory of smashbros

Yeah, see, sometimes I feel the need to get really deep and thorough about something that needs clarification - mindgames is probably one of the things that needs the MOST clarifying at this point, although I don't think I could write a book on it. I doubt a book is really needed, anyway.

I think we all have to consider that Smash is a rapidly-growing game, and already the possibilities for Smash are expanding massively with the development of Brawl. We need to make sure that there's not people spewing trash about "mindgames this, mindgames that" and throwing around terms like they're going out of style. There's going to be plenty of newbs wandering into the Smash arena in the coming days/weeks/months/years, and it's our duty to make sure they KNOW what the terms/theories behind the game are. And that means we can't have all this ambiguous junk about mindgames (and other advanced techniques) going around - that only serves to confuse those who are already in need of help.

Like I said before, mindgames are not complex at all - in fact, the concept of mindgames is simple. Of course, it can be significantly more difficult to actually "put into practice" the things we know about mindgames because it's a lot easier to talk about them then it is to apply them, as with all things. You can be planning to 4-stock your opponent at the beginning of a match, and then 30 seconds later, as your first stock flashes off the screen, you're inwardly cursing yourself for your stupidity and all that fancy-pants "advanced" stuff goes straight out the window. It can be very hard to keep a level head during a game so you can actually recognize mindgames when they're occurring; heck, it can be hard to keep a level head period. That's why people make stupid mistakes, even the best players - sometimes even THEIR heads get a bit scrambled when they're playing.

Mindgames are most effective and are more easily understood when you've already mastered the "mechanics" of Smash. You'd better KNOW that Marth's forward smash can outdistance Link's forward smash any day of the week, or else you'll be stuck trying to develop some complex mindgame to get around it, when you don't even have to. Too often, I've seen responses to "cry for help" threads like "Help, I can't beat Sheik. What do I do?" saying things like "use mindgames, son" or other such trash. That's the level it's gotten to - people think they can create these ugly generalizations about mindgames, to the point where the solution is, simply, mindgames. Wrong. For EVERY problem and EVERY matchup you can ever think of, there is ALWAYS, ALWAYS a way that it can be countered "mechanically." This does NOT mean that you can't help your problem by using mindgames - however, again, mindgames work BEST when you already know the mechanics of the game inside and out. That way you KNOW you're not missing any easy chances to nail your opponent when you actually start dipping into the art of mindgames. For example, to beat Sheik, you don't necessarily need to use mindgames. Sure, it can help, especially if your opponent doesn't know how to recognize/use them. But, in this case it's more important to make sure that you know the mechanics of your character (and the mechanics of Sheik as well) very, very well. "Knowing the mechanics" allows you to accomplish a great deal all on its own, because now you KNOW what will work and what won't. Again, putting all this mechanical knowledge into practice is a lot harder than talking about it, but once you do it, you should know exactly what you're doing wrong, EVERY time you get hit, and what you could have done to prevent it. That's the mechanical aspect of the game, and every game starts at that level by default. It's the choice of the players to take it to the next level, which is mindgames - and, again, if you try using mindgames when you haven't mastered the first level, which is mechanics, you'll choke pretty hard against someone who has mastered both mindgames AND mechanics.

Man, I like talking about this.

 

[firexemblemxpryde]

Mindgames are as mindgames serve.

 

[villa]

Yeah, see, sometimes I feel the need to get really deep and thorough about something that needs clarification - mindgames is probably one of the things that needs the MOST clarifying at this point, although I don't think I could write a book on it. I doubt a book is really needed, anyway.

I think we all have to consider that Smash is a rapidly-growing game, and already the possibilities for Smash are expanding massively with the development of Brawl. We need to make sure that there's not people spewing trash about "mindgames this, mindgames that" and throwing around terms like they're going out of style. There's going to be plenty of newbs wandering into the Smash arena in the coming days/weeks/months/years, and it's our duty to make sure they KNOW what the terms/theories behind the game are. And that means we can't have all this ambiguous junk about mindgames (and other advanced techniques) going around - that only serves to confuse those who are already in need of help.

Like I said before, mindgames are not complex at all - in fact, the concept of mindgames is simple. Of course, it can be significantly more difficult to actually "put into practice" the things we know about mindgames because it's a lot easier to talk about them then it is to apply them, as with all things. You can be planning to 4-stock your opponent at the beginning of a match, and then 30 seconds later, as your first stock flashes off the screen, you're inwardly cursing yourself for your stupidity and all that fancy-pants "advanced" stuff goes straight out the window. It can be very hard to keep a level head during a game so you can actually recognize mindgames when they're occurring; heck, it can be hard to keep a level head period. That's why people make stupid mistakes, even the best players - sometimes even THEIR heads get a bit scrambled when they're playing.

Mindgames are most effective and are more easily understood when you've already mastered the "mechanics" of Smash. You'd better KNOW that Marth's forward smash can outdistance Link's forward smash any day of the week, or else you'll be stuck trying to develop some complex mindgame to get around it, when you don't even have to. Too often, I've seen responses to "cry for help" threads like "Help, I can't beat Sheik. What do I do?" saying things like "use mindgames, son" or other such trash. That's the level it's gotten to - people think they can create these ugly generalizations about mindgames, to the point where the solution is, simply, mindgames. Wrong. For EVERY problem and EVERY matchup you can ever think of, there is ALWAYS, ALWAYS a way that it can be countered "mechanically." This does NOT mean that you can't help your problem by using mindgames - however, again, mindgames work BEST when you already know the mechanics of the game inside and out. That way you KNOW you're not missing any easy chances to nail your opponent when you actually start dipping into the art of mindgames. For example, to beat Sheik, you don't necessarily need to use mindgames. Sure, it can help, especially if your opponent doesn't know how to recognize/use them. But, in this case it's more important to make sure that you know the mechanics of your character (and the mechanics of Sheik as well) very, very well. "Knowing the mechanics" allows you to accomplish a great deal all on its own, because now you KNOW what will work and what won't. Again, putting all this mechanical knowledge into practice is a lot harder than talking about it, but once you do it, you should know exactly what you're doing wrong, EVERY time you get hit, and what you could have done to prevent it. That's the mechanical aspect of the game, and every game starts at that level by default. It's the choice of the players to take it to the next level, which is mindgames - and, again, if you try using mindgames when you haven't mastered the first level, which is mechanics, you'll choke pretty hard against someone who has mastered both mindgames AND mechanics.

Man, I like talking about this.

hnnnnnnnnnnngggggggg mindgames

 

[Haruno Kotetsu]

To me, the word "mindgames" is just a sugar coated word everyone says and dosen't understand. Like someone with the IQ of 97 trying to explain how California could become its own country by breaking off of the US, or something. Hell, I dont even know what im talking about.

Its just overused and that the biatches that say it 20 times in a sentence need to get served

 

[Corigames]

And I love all the psuedo analysts that can see the "mindgames" or lack off, by watching a couple of videos. Also it seems others use these "mindgames" as a blanket of comfort against their lack of technical(another annoying word) ability.!

Mindgames are a "technical ability."

The ability to manipulate your opponent into doing something they normally wouldn't do through subtle actions is completely part of smash and is usually part of every inch of it. Doing an amazing combo is great, but once you start noticing that the computer players are gone, you have to start getting tricky to get combos off. You have to switch up moves; you can't spam the same crap over and over and hope to win a match off of it.

Mindgames are everything, if you don't have, get 'em. If you are complaining about them, you probably don't have any.

 

[Ornj]

you just got mindgamed son

 

[Puffer]

To me, the word "mindgames" is just a sugar coated word everyone says and dosen't understand. Like someone with the IQ of 97 trying to explain how California could become its own country by breaking off of the US, or something. Hell, I dont even know what im talking about.

Its just overused and that the biatches that say it 20 times in a sentence need to get served

True dat. People have to understand where to draw the line between mechanics and mindgames...they're not the same thing, although people often talk about Smash as if it's nothing but mindgames. What they don't realize is that, to truly understand what mindgames are and how they work, you must first master the mechanics of the game. The very definition of mindgames involves "mechanics" because mindgames (usually) imply that one or both of the players in a match are deviating from the "mechanics" in order to accomplish something. Mindgames aren't required to win a match - if you can find where your opponent's strategy is mechanically flawed, you can easily exploit it just by using a simple counter tactic. Chances are, though, that your opponent will catch on to this exploitation, and that's when mindgames really start up.

 

[Haruno Kotetsu]

True dat. People have to understand where to draw the line between mechanics and mindgames...they're not the same thing, although people often talk about Smash as if it's nothing but mindgames. What they don't realize is that, to truly understand what mindgames are and how they work, you must first master the mechanics of the game. The very definition of mindgames involves "mechanics" because mindgames (usually) imply that one or both of the players in a match are deviating from the "mechanics" in order to accomplish something. Mindgames aren't required to win a match - if you can find where your opponent's strategy is mechanically flawed, you can easily exploit it just by using a simple counter tactic. Chances are, though, that your opponent will catch on to this exploitation, and that's when mindgames really start up.

Very good point.

Thats exactly what I mean, that people need to understand it and not just say it. Mindgames, a part of it, is the art of manupulation. Not everyone can do that and draw out an opponents flaw in a tactic pattern or strategy. But they say it without even knowing what it is, and its pathetic to me.

 

[legendofme]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pmjcuOIp12s

Skip to 2:24.

Mindgames do exist.

If that's not mindgames, then tell me what it is. I guess you have to have a mind in order to understand mindgames.

That is zee bezt signature ever, mon ami!!!!

Man................I need no such thing as simple as mindgames. I mix-it-up Jesus Style...play smart....my technical ability is ferocious....I adapt like Jet Li from Fist of Legend. I make my opponent do stupid stuff, I play characters like pencil pushers say they shouldn't be played...On the battlefield there is no right way to fight...Do What Helps You Win!! That's why I should be nominated as Best Smasher.........( for Next Year)....When it comes to me...every character is the best character in the game.

$ Match me..I dare you.

 

[Joe_Sumo]

Mindgames do exist.

my example is forward is more technicle then pc chris, but pc chris plays smarter so he wins more tournaments.

the kind of talk about mindgames i hate are when people go on about little tricks that help them get a hit in 10% of the time.

 

[Sliq]

This thread is dumb and I hate it and everyone in it.

 

[Aesir]

Mindgames do exist.

my example is forward is more technicle then pc chris, but pc chris plays smarter so he wins more tournaments.

the kind of talk about mindgames i hate are when people go on about little tricks that help them get a hit in 10% of the time.

um what? when was pc less technical then forward? >___>

 

[comboking]

mindgames are real because say you enemy is at 100% damage and you are at 25% and you are on a small stage and you want to trick you opponent and your using roy wavedash behind them and forward smash or counter. maybe even jump of the stage and make him think your being stupid and attack them or what ever thats why i think mindgames exist

 

[Itakio]

This thread is a mindgame.

 

[flaco]

This thread is dumb and I hate it and everyone in it.

well your one of them becuase your here

 

[Sliq]

well your one of them becuase your here

OMFG YOUR SO CLEVER YOU TOTALLY CAUGHT ME LOL

 

[Pink Reaper]

MINGDAMES DON EXITS!

you spelled it wrong.

 

[Cort]

OMFG YOUR SO CLEVER YOU TOTALLY CAUGHT ME LOL

 

[Sliq]

I luld hard.

 

[mikeHAZE]

i don't get it ><

 

[Acryte]

Reading your opponents
Creating openings
Putting yourself into an advantageous position
controlling your opponents

Some people need to read The Book of 5 Rings... go read the fire scroll... it's easily applicable to SSBM and all the "mindgames" people speak of.

yes there are little general applications of a technique that can work when combined wiht reading an opponent, however you can't just dash forward then wavedash back anytime of day and have it work... you have to read your opponent and choose a proper time. This is the side of the argument presented by those who would rather call it intelligent play. This is because they are not the ones judging the action as a simple tool, but are looking at the whole match until that point and then choosing an advantageous move. Striking from the void... or advancing with restraint... controlling the opponent in order to execute a move quickly in response, or even waiting for the opposing strike. There are many things that can be done when playing intelligently, and many of these things are outlined in the fire scroll and also in the wind scroll. The issue many people have with the word mindgames is that they are using it as a way to describe any move, sequence, or act out of context as a working tool when it is useless in many scenarios to someone who cannot read his opponent and respond accordingly.

Playing in an unexpected way or a way that is hard to predict is just playing intelligently. The example is the mindless robotic falco. Any noob with a decent tech skill can pick up falco and start doing laser and pillar rushdowns. It's really easy to just jump in and spam a down air... But it's predictable and it's beatable.

"you can only get smarter by playing a smarter opponent"

The case is that when you play people who are unintelligent, they will not know how to beat a certain tactic because they cannot adapt to the changing circumstance and devise a winning strategy to best a telegraphed, obvious technique.

A decent player, will know that if the timing for the dair is off he can grab you, or that he can light shield, or even can hit you before you execute the dair because you have to do it when you are lower to the ground or else you will be shield grabbed.

Thus the falco cannot just spam dairs mindlessly... because any reasonably intelligent player can easily put the falco in a disadvantageous position.

This is just playing intelligently. Learn how to attack without leaving yourself open. Minimize weaknesses, but also utilize the unexpected move by predicting an opponent, and by how you think the opponent will predict you (yomi layers). Learn to lead the opponent into falsely predicting your actions and prevail over him accordingly. Musashi would call this "A Commander Knowing Soldiers", in which you look at the enemy as your own troop who you can manipulate and make him do what you please.

Thus, if you cannot read your opponent, or if you cannot play as intellligently as he can, then you will be read like a book. There will be no use for empty movesets that some people can call generic mindgame tricks, because you will be outsmarted. Musashi says to let the opponent do everything that is useless. Even if your "mindgame" suceeds in working because it was unexpected (as most noobish moves are usually not expected... though are usually ineffective when compared to the effective move and are therefore useless), your use of when and which preset mindgames you utilize will be quickly discerned by your opponent because he will be playing more intelligently than you, and then next time you decide to use it, he may very well be waiting for you to do so.

can't remember exact phrase but I believe it was something like "do you know how many noobs I have seen wavedash across the stage into my fist?"

My favorite example: 2nd clip in All-Wessed-Up. The one with falco and samus... just try doing that in a fight without predicting your opponent and watch yourself get messed up really bad. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rsDwz0JaeWI

The smarter player will play smarter. That's all there is to it. Yes, there are little tricks and techniques that can be used to gain an advantage, but it is always specific to the situation (in the context of the match) and also specific to the intelligence levels of you and your opponent. I can teach a noob to Lcancel, Wavedash, and shieldgrab in a day, and if they are good at video games, it will not be hard considering guiltygear players can time FRCs down to 2-3 frame windows in a 60 frame per second game with 100% accuracy -_-. It doesn't mean that even after they understand moves, and preset "mindgames" like dash forwards, wavedash back into an Fsmash, etc. that it will work on anyone with half a brain. This is because the intelligent player will realize what moves the opponent is capable of at every moment, and which moves will outprioritize his moves, as well as the possible angels of attack for each of you which can easily change the dynamic of who has the advantage and who does not... so when you are standing there and dash forwards, he knows he can be grabbed, but he can also be feinted if they use a wavedash, and then you will be left open. The intelligent smasher would expect his opponent to either to attempt to punish the dash, shield or even move backwards themselves, or take to the air if there is higher priority over your ground capabilities... but if you were going to just do a preset "mindgame" and wanted to Fsmash, the intelligent player would expect his opponent to shield an Fsmash for example (for the grab), and would thus only risk bold Fsmashes when they are generally unpunishable... such as when the opponent is next to the edge and the push on the shield will make him fall (thus negating shield grab options while opening up forced recovery options which can put you at an advantage depending on which character is forced into ledgegrabbing and what percent they are at since this can change your effectiveness as well as their recovery attacks and rolls, etc... This can open up ledge guarding options and potential for KOs).

There is more to smash than just using some preset moves randomly because it will not be effective after they realize your patterns, sort you out, and dominate you accordingly. And you will NEVER beat them until you learn to change your ways and play intelligently. This is also why I don't believe in the over confidence of pros as well when playing intelligent players. Your environment as well as your personal understanding, ability, and mind all go into how well you can play. Pros in my mind are great and are better than me because of experience and experience alone. Anyone who can learn and adapt can become a pro if you play against pros constantly because even against lower skilled people, their weaknesses are realized and minimized, and therefore they strike from a fortified position and have nothing to fear from people who cannot capitalize off a temporary weakness or mistake. Experience is where they win their matches. Having played many character matchups against people with water-tight metagame skill with their characters puts them above many people who do not know how to fight against said characters outside their small set of chars that their friends play. Just because you can kick a pro Fox's *** because you play intelligently with a very good fox player won't mean a semi-decent ness won't kick your *** a few times because you don't know how to play against him... let alone someone who REALLY knows how to play the character.



All-in-all, there is no mindgame that is effective outside context (unless it is brokenly good, in which it's not really a mindgame since it should and will be abused nonstop...). It's all just about intelligent play.

don't ask people what a good mindgame is, but how you mixup your approach... or how to anticipate an enemy's approach and how you can mixup your response, and then beyond that, learning what is effective and using it as a safeguard for playing solidly until you can determine the type of style and play that your opponent uses (in which you can start reading into what you believe he will do).


I am not a great Cfalc (falco main ) player at all but I still play a unique and deceptive one that operates intelligently. I try to prevail over others by radical difference. Playing a slow-paced, passive, evasive falcon that at the sight of an opening explodes into speed mode and take advantage of them. Meanwhile the rest of the time I act as if I hate the game and am completely disinterested with it. Because even attitude is infectious, I use it as a way to make others not care about the match and it can change the way they play, or whether or not they keep trying to win even... I take every chance I get to emphasize this, like when I kill them and say "whatever..." with disinterest, or if they start doing great damage on a stock I'll just run away and kill myself. I will take all satisfaction out of playing. Dually when I kill them and am 1 stock up, I SD and just go to the next stock. This gives the physical feeling of winning each time you gain a stock on them. It further completes the feeling of being beaten when you clearly best them 4 times when both stocks are zeroed and you act like you don't give a **** about the game and don't even want to be playing. I will sit in the respawn halo as long as possible, delay and slow down the game as much as I can, and then explode with speed and then slow it back down. I will grab them OVER AND OVER and just let them break out, just to remind them that I could have punished them if I actually cared. It's fine though, because I actually do enjoy playing those matches... sure I lose some by dropping my stocks but even when they win they feel like they lost, or don't even care anymore. When they kill me 1 time and I killed them 3 times and SDed after each kill... when you watch how you can get inside someones head and even make them hate playing you, just because of how you get in their head in REAL LIFE as well as in the game, it is a great way to have a psychological victory in smash and I really like how it can dishearten an opponent.... of course it doesn't matter much when most of my matches are with falco anyways hehe. But even psychologically it is good practice to understand how to manipulate your opponent for your own gain (that is, unless you play soley for fun -_-)... If you can win 4 or 5 matches in a row like that, they will hate you. Hell, after that just start the match and stand there and let them kill you. When you are pissed off nothing is worse than a charity win....

 

[Suntan Luigi]

meh

10 chars

 

[henpen924]

Maybe the phrase "mindgames" is not suitable, but the whole act of mindgames does exist, and there is easy proof. besides, this is no official technical term...i think

 

[NoVaLombardia]

thread necromancy ftw!

 

[Grmo]

Mindgames are tricks. The truth is that the definition of that word has become so confused and distorted that it's hard to tell, but I think a trick will always be a trick, and nothing more.

 

[Teczer0]

Mog is amazing

 

[ToP CaT]

Reading your opponents
Creating openings
Putting yourself into an advantageous position
controlling your opponents

Some people need to read The Book of 5 Rings... go read the fire scroll... it's easily applicable to SSBM and all the "mindgames" people speak of.

yes there are little general applications of a technique that can work when combined wiht reading an opponent, however you can't just dash forward then wavedash back anytime of day and have it work... you have to read your opponent and choose a proper time. This is the side of the argument presented by those who would rather call it intelligent play. This is because they are not the ones judging the action as a simple tool, but are looking at the whole match until that point and then choosing an advantageous move. Striking from the void... or advancing with restraint... controlling the opponent in order to execute a move quickly in response, or even waiting for the opposing strike. There are many things that can be done when playing intelligently, and many of these things are outlined in the fire scroll and also in the wind scroll. The issue many people have with the word mindgames is that they are using it as a way to describe any move, sequence, or act out of context as a working tool when it is useless in many scenarios to someone who cannot read his opponent and respond accordingly.

Playing in an unexpected way or a way that is hard to predict is just playing intelligently. The example is the mindless robotic falco. Any noob with a decent tech skill can pick up falco and start doing laser and pillar rushdowns. It's really easy to just jump in and spam a down air... But it's predictable and it's beatable.

"you can only get smarter by playing a smarter opponent"

The case is that when you play people who are unintelligent, they will not know how to beat a certain tactic because they cannot adapt to the changing circumstance and devise a winning strategy to best a telegraphed, obvious technique.

A decent player, will know that if the timing for the dair is off he can grab you, or that he can light shield, or even can hit you before you execute the dair because you have to do it when you are lower to the ground or else you will be shield grabbed.

Thus the falco cannot just spam dairs mindlessly... because any reasonably intelligent player can easily put the falco in a disadvantageous position.

This is just playing intelligently. Learn how to attack without leaving yourself open. Minimize weaknesses, but also utilize the unexpected move by predicting an opponent, and by how you think the opponent will predict you (yomi layers). Learn to lead the opponent into falsely predicting your actions and prevail over him accordingly. Musashi would call this "A Commander Knowing Soldiers", in which you look at the enemy as your own troop who you can manipulate and make him do what you please.

Thus, if you cannot read your opponent, or if you cannot play as intellligently as he can, then you will be read like a book. There will be no use for empty movesets that some people can call generic mindgame tricks, because you will be outsmarted. Musashi says to let the opponent do everything that is useless. Even if your "mindgame" suceeds in working because it was unexpected (as most noobish moves are usually not expected... though are usually ineffective when compared to the effective move and are therefore useless), your use of when and which preset mindgames you utilize will be quickly discerned by your opponent because he will be playing more intelligently than you, and then next time you decide to use it, he may very well be waiting for you to do so.

can't remember exact phrase but I believe it was something like "do you know how many noobs I have seen wavedash across the stage into my fist?"

My favorite example: 2nd clip in All-Wessed-Up. The one with falco and samus... just try doing that in a fight without predicting your opponent and watch yourself get messed up really bad. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rsDwz0JaeWI

The smarter player will play smarter. That's all there is to it. Yes, there are little tricks and techniques that can be used to gain an advantage, but it is always specific to the situation (in the context of the match) and also specific to the intelligence levels of you and your opponent. I can teach a noob to Lcancel, Wavedash, and shieldgrab in a day, and if they are good at video games, it will not be hard considering guiltygear players can time FRCs down to 2-3 frame windows in a 60 frame per second game with 100% accuracy -_-. It doesn't mean that even after they understand moves, and preset "mindgames" like dash forwards, wavedash back into an Fsmash, etc. that it will work on anyone with half a brain. This is because the intelligent player will realize what moves the opponent is capable of at every moment, and which moves will outprioritize his moves, as well as the possible angels of attack for each of you which can easily change the dynamic of who has the advantage and who does not... so when you are standing there and dash forwards, he knows he can be grabbed, but he can also be feinted if they use a wavedash, and then you will be left open. The intelligent smasher would expect his opponent to either to attempt to punish the dash, shield or even move backwards themselves, or take to the air if there is higher priority over your ground capabilities... but if you were going to just do a preset "mindgame" and wanted to Fsmash, the intelligent player would expect his opponent to shield an Fsmash for example (for the grab), and would thus only risk bold Fsmashes when they are generally unpunishable... such as when the opponent is next to the edge and the push on the shield will make him fall (thus negating shield grab options while opening up forced recovery options which can put you at an advantage depending on which character is forced into ledgegrabbing and what percent they are at since this can change your effectiveness as well as their recovery attacks and rolls, etc... This can open up ledge guarding options and potential for KOs).

There is more to smash than just using some preset moves randomly because it will not be effective after they realize your patterns, sort you out, and dominate you accordingly. And you will NEVER beat them until you learn to change your ways and play intelligently. This is also why I don't believe in the over confidence of pros as well when playing intelligent players. Your environment as well as your personal understanding, ability, and mind all go into how well you can play. Pros in my mind are great and are better than me because of experience and experience alone. Anyone who can learn and adapt can become a pro if you play against pros constantly because even against lower skilled people, their weaknesses are realized and minimized, and therefore they strike from a fortified position and have nothing to fear from people who cannot capitalize off a temporary weakness or mistake. Experience is where they win their matches. Having played many character matchups against people with water-tight metagame skill with their characters puts them above many people who do not know how to fight against said characters outside their small set of chars that their friends play. Just because you can kick a pro Fox's *** because you play intelligently with a very good fox player won't mean a semi-decent ness won't kick your *** a few times because you don't know how to play against him... let alone someone who REALLY knows how to play the character.



All-in-all, there is no mindgame that is effective outside context (unless it is brokenly good, in which it's not really a mindgame since it should and will be abused nonstop...). It's all just about intelligent play.

don't ask people what a good mindgame is, but how you mixup your approach... or how to anticipate an enemy's approach and how you can mixup your response, and then beyond that, learning what is effective and using it as a safeguard for playing solidly until you can determine the type of style and play that your opponent uses (in which you can start reading into what you believe he will do).


I am not a great Cfalc (falco main ) player at all but I still play a unique and deceptive one that operates intelligently. I try to prevail over others by radical difference. Playing a slow-paced, passive, evasive falcon that at the sight of an opening explodes into speed mode and take advantage of them. Meanwhile the rest of the time I act as if I hate the game and am completely disinterested with it. Because even attitude is infectious, I use it as a way to make others not care about the match and it can change the way they play, or whether or not they keep trying to win even... I take every chance I get to emphasize this, like when I kill them and say "whatever..." with disinterest, or if they start doing great damage on a stock I'll just run away and kill myself. I will take all satisfaction out of playing. Dually when I kill them and am 1 stock up, I SD and just go to the next stock. This gives the physical feeling of winning each time you gain a stock on them. It further completes the feeling of being beaten when you clearly best them 4 times when both stocks are zeroed and you act like you don't give a **** about the game and don't even want to be playing. I will sit in the respawn halo as long as possible, delay and slow down the game as much as I can, and then explode with speed and then slow it back down. I will grab them OVER AND OVER and just let them break out, just to remind them that I could have punished them if I actually cared. It's fine though, because I actually do enjoy playing those matches... sure I lose some by dropping my stocks but even when they win they feel like they lost, or don't even care anymore. When they kill me 1 time and I killed them 3 times and SDed after each kill... when you watch how you can get inside someones head and even make them hate playing you, just because of how you get in their head in REAL LIFE as well as in the game, it is a great way to have a psychological victory in smash and I really like how it can dishearten an opponent.... of course it doesn't matter much when most of my matches are with falco anyways hehe. But even psychologically it is good practice to understand how to manipulate your opponent for your own gain (that is, unless you play soley for fun -_-)... If you can win 4 or 5 matches in a row like that, they will hate you. Hell, after that just start the match and stand there and let them kill you. When you are pissed off nothing is worse than a charity win....

who types this much?

 

[ElSpaniard]

wanna know a REAL mind game? right before you play your opponent put on a blindfold, but make sure to have a lil hole so you kan still see, then tell them that you can defeat him just by "hearing"

 

[Tom]

Mog is amazing

tec0 i love your sig =D

 

[AlcyoNite]

thread creator is done for. acryte and the people on the first page made their points explicitly (and almost painfully) well. topic should be closed imo

 

[Teczer0]

tec0 i love your sig =D

=D

Thanks Azumango Daioh is amazing .