Miiverse Daily Pic Thread: 2nd Edition (Updated 9/19)

[Your Hero]

Dark Pit could still end up being an alternate skin, although I think he might be his own character. WFT has two VAs, so voice-acting alone is not going to decide how many character slots a character gets. Sakurai may however make similar changes to Dark Pit to give him his own slot, so it really depends on whether or not he needs filler on the roster.

I also think it kind of confirms Lucas is coming back too. If they had enough time to develop Lucina they definitely had enough time to develop Lucas as well. This opens up a ton of doors actually: They could bring in Impa as a Sheik clone, Dixie Kong as a Diddy clone, and more, Hilda as a Zelda clone, Ike Climbers as an Ice Climbers clone, Ms. Pac Man as a Kirby clone, etc.

Hell, they could de-clonify Ganondorf and make Groose the new Captain Falcon clone (can this actually happen please?)

Haha, okay maybe I'm going overboard, but I'm all for it as long as they differ in some way (stats wise, a handful of different attacks, etc). I wasn't a big fan of clones in the past, but now it means getting characters in that never stood a chance.

 

[MewtwoMaster2002]

One problem with clones is everyone is going to use the one that's better

The better one always overshadows the worse one

I used Pichu more than Pikachu in Melee. :|

 

[Mr. KoopaTurtle]

Lawd Jesus, Sakurai could bring some of you all of your hopes and dreams for Smash, but you STILL wouldn't be pleased.
I'm done. It's been an awesome Monday. Goodnight, my fellow Smashboarders.

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

The main reason to suspect Dark Pit at this point is that his appearance in Palutena's trailer is a very random thing to have been tacked on and very hard to explain otherwise, but we have every bit of the formula to make this the most logical reason he's there. Lucina proves clone characters are in, and Mr. Game & Watch proves that characters can be shown in trailers without being officially revealed (no one serious doubts Mr. Game & Watch will be playable). Even better, the wording of today's update implies the existance of more than one character like Lucina, and while you could argue Toon Link is already #2 on the list, the way he did that clarification seems to suggest to me that he's thinking of some as of yet unrevealed character or characters that applies to.

To say Dark Pit is "confirmed" would be a huge stretch. However, I think he is, at this point, highly likely as a Pit clone. I just don't see that any other possible ways to explain everything we know are more plausible than that. The good news is that we're at least near the end of the road on uncertainty; it's less than two months until Japanese release and we know everything!

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

I used Pichu more than Pikachu in Melee. :|

Pikachu was still better

and overshadowed Pichu

and Pichu became the only veteran almost no one wanted back

 

[Ryuutakeshi]

Lawd Jesus, Sakurai could bring some of you all of your hopes and dreams for Smash, but you STILL wouldn't pleased.
I'm done. It's been an awesome Monday. Goodnight, my fellow Smashboarders.

Can I leave with you? I need a friggin drink after today.

 

[JamesDNaux]

Lawd Jesus, Sakurai could bring some of you all of your hopes and dreams for Smash, but you STILL wouldn't pleased.
I'm done. It's been an awesome Monday. Goodnight, my fellow Smashboarders.

This has not happened yet, once Snake and King K. Rool show up, I won't even care if none of my other wanted characters don't make it. I would be forever satisfied with them, and the rest is just icing on the game.

 

[MewtwoMaster2002]

Pikachu was still better

and overshadowed Pichu

and Pichu became the only veteran almost no one wanted back

I know. My point was that not "everyone" is going to use the better one, which in my case is that I use Pichu instead of Pikachu, which is the better one.

 

[Sonsa]

Pikachu was still better

and overshadowed Pichu

and Pichu became the only veteran almost no one wanted back

Well then this time they can make Pichu speedier and hurt itself less! Aha, I don't mind whether Pichu is absent or not, but seeing it return might just warm my heart a bit!

Certainly they've learned from melee and balance is being taken even more seriously. I doubt Marth or Lucina will overshadow one another, their changes are very slight anyway. Plenty of people will stick with Marth for nostalgia or tippers or whatever else while people like me will pick Lucina cause they don't care about tippers or just loved her personality in Awakening. It's all just personal preference! Two lovely characters to pick from when wanting to play a certain moveset! It's great! At least in my opinion.

 

[YoshiSonic]

I know. My point was that not "everyone" is going to use the better one, which in my case is that I use Pichu instead of Pikachu, which is the better one.

I'm with ya.

I don't follow the crowd, I choose the ones I want and I love Pichu's movement in Melee as well.

*Sheds a tier*

 

[FalKoopa]

I see a Dr. Mario/Mario situation in terms of tiers. Marth and Lucina will play near identically, but the slight differences will result in a small tier gap.

 

[Katy Parry]

Some closure on Chrom would be lovely, as until then there'll be people construing this update to meaning Chrom is also a semi-clone.

Which I wouldn't mind I guess, though the update itself will probably have Sakurai's heartjerking "Waluigi Try-Hard" speech fitted for him.

After all these years Roy finally gets poetic justice.

Some closure? Nintendo confirmed to IGN today that Chrome is not playable in any form.

 

[Hayzie]

5 awesome FE characters to play as. Amazing news means no room for negative feelings about it.

NOW WHY DOES DK ONLY HAVE TWO REPS. WHERE IS DIXIE.

 

[Rich Homie Quan]

Finally. She's a clone, not a skin. It feels like the debate has been going on for much longer than it actually has.

What a day

 

[Sonsa]

5 awesome FE characters to play as. Amazing news means no room for negative feelings about it.

NOW WHY DOES DK ONLY HAVE TWO REPS. WHERE IS DIXIE.

Patience~ Who knows! We might see her 8/12. You guys did hear about CoroCoro right? I'm a little confused that no one's talking about it here, but it isn't exactly translated yet but uh... some stuff might be showcased and apparently a smash direct on 8/12. Disclaimer, I might have no idea what I'm talking about so watch out.

 

[Dillo64]

People complaining that Lucina is a clone: She is this game's Dr. Mario. She was probably a last minute add and likely wouldn't have gotten in the game at all if she was a full original character. There's probably little other way FE would get four reps.

So really, would you rather have clone Lucina or absolutely nothing at all?

Because those were probably the two choices.

 

[slicesabre]

I am so glad the very next day this update silenced the alt worshipers and made them out to be nothing but trolls. I honestly believe they are people who simply disliked Lucina being her own character.

 

[Frostwraith]

Lucina is probably the cloniest clone of them all. Even more than Toon Link and Dr. Mario.

She's Marth with balanced sword damage instead of being stronger on the tip and weaker closer to the hilt, and has a slightly shorter range. An easier to learn character with a small drawback.

This change is very minor, but affects the gameplay regardless, so she's her own slot. I wouldn't dare to say that she took the same development as any of the other newcomers. She's Marth copy and pasted to a new model and slightly tweaked.

The same could happen with Dark Pit.

Considering how clones are fast to develop, they aren't really stealing slots as some think. And come on, all newcomers so far have been pretty unique. A clone or two wouldn't hurt, especially if they're popular characters. Dark Pit and Lucina are very popular among their games' fanbases. Sakurai could well be using their similarities to Pit and Marth to make them fast-to-develop clones and appeal to some fans.

 

[Z'zgashi]

Lucina i have a feeling will be better than Marth in this game..Also Fox/Falco

I completely disagree, I think Marth is going to be a harder, but better version, and here's why; Marth has a strong point at the tip (so kill power) and a weak point on the inside (so low knockback) while Lucina looks to be middle of the ground all around. Based off this, weak hitting with Marth will most likely combo better or allow for more follow ups, and being able to space tippers will allow for earlier kills. So basically, Lucina is the watered down 'I dont want to put as much time into the character to use them efficiently' version while Marth is the more 'I need to have really good spacing and hitbox placement to get the most of out this character' version.

 

[Cap'nChreest]

Wow. Put it in the history books folks. The one day Sakurai was predictable.

So Lucina is just Marth but with training wheels? Sounds good enough for me.

 

[FalKoopa]

Except, number 5 is wrong. There is no power difference on any part of her blade. Only Marth and Ike possess that trait.

Ike doesn't have the tipper.

 

[Hong]

I see a Dr. Mario/Mario situation in terms of tiers. Marth and Lucina will play near identically, but the slight differences will result in a small tier gap.

In their defence, Mario has become the preferred choice for select top Smashers these days. Mango and DJNintendo in doubles, at least.

It's a matter of making exclusive features of the clone attractive, so both feel like they have something you "must have". I am sure a Roy that could reliably kill an enemy above 60%~ would be like night and day compared to our boy now, who has little hope of scoring a KO outside of Flare Blade when they get out of uthrow fsmash range.

I hope they don't blow it with these two.

 

[Hayzie]

Patience~ Who knows! We might see her 8/12. You guys did hear about CoroCoro right? I'm a little confused that no one's talking about it here, but it isn't exactly translated yet but uh... some stuff might be showcased and apparently a smash direct on 8/12. Disclaimer, I might have no idea what I'm talking about so watch out.

You are pumping my neurons full of many emotions right now. I'M ON THE HUNT!

 

[TJ-Works]

Lucina is probably the cloniest clone of them all. Even more than Toon Link and Dr. Mario.

She's Marth with balanced sword damage instead of being stronger on the tip and weaker closer to the hilt, and has a slightly shorter range. An easier to learn character with a small drawback.

This change is very minor, but affects the gameplay regardless, so she's her own slot. I wouldn't dare to say that she took the same development as any of the other newcomers. She's Marth copy and pasted to a new model and slightly tweaked.

The same could happen with Dark Pit.

Considering how clones are fast to develop, they aren't really stealing slots as some think. And come on, all newcomers so far have been pretty unique. A clone or two wouldn't hurt, especially if they're popular characters. Dark Pit and Lucina are very popular among their games' fanbases. Sakurai could well be using their similarities to Pit and Marth to make them fast-to-develop clones and appeal to some fans.

There's a problem with Dark Pit though. He is literally Pit 100% in design, but with a palette swap. Making him a separate playable fighter character feels very unorthodox. At least with Marth and Lucina, there is still a difference.

I don't think they would stoop to that level. If you'd want to play as "Dark Pit", all Pit needs a palette swap and BOOM. Dark Pit.
Even the likes of Young Link and Toon Link are obvious differences.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

All this talk of ''tips" between Lucina, Marth, and Ike..

 

[Shaya]

Ike doesn't have the tipper.

He does actually.
He has flub hitboxes on Fsmash at the very least,.

 

[FalKoopa]

He does actually.

I've been playing Ike for what, four years?.... I'm ashamed of myself.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

For those who are comparing Lucina to Roy, please remember that Roy has a terrible aerial game, and his sword has to hit at the blade's center to deal the most damage. Lucina apparently doesn't have those flaws.

 

[Krysco]

Love the inclusion of Robin and now that we have it confirmed that Lucina is a clone I honestly don't mind. I use Ganon but not Falcon, Wolf but not Fox/Falco and Ness but not Lucas. I could easily see myself using Lucina even though I don't use Marth.

Also, I do see Dark Pit as a possibility. They could easily continue from where Palutena's trailer left off and make that Dark Pit's trailer. Not sure how I feel about Dark Pit if he does become a playable character. My main reason for disliking Palutena and Pit is their voices (Brawl Pit wasn't annoying aside from side special). Dark Pit's voice doesn't irritate me so I might enjoy him especially if he is more powerful. This is of course assuming he does become a playable character.

 

[TheDMonroeShow]

The real kicker here to chrom fans is..after months of being told he won't get in because he would be a semi clone his own daughter gets in over him because she's potentially even more of a clone. Hm

 

[Malcolm Belmont]

I completely disagree, I think Marth is going to be a harder, but better version, and here's why; Marth has a strong point at the tip (so kill power) and a weak point on the inside (so low knockback) while Lucina looks to be middle of the ground all around. Based off this, weak hitting with Marth will most likely combo better or allow for more follow ups, and being able to space tippers will allow for earlier kills. So basically, Lucina is the watered down 'I dont want to put as much time into the character to use them efficiently' version while Marth is the more 'I need to have really good spacing and hitbox placement to get the most of out this character' version.

So Basically Lucina is the Falco of this game.

 

[TitanTeaTime]

To be honest, I would be disappointed at Lucina being a clone but...
1: Kind of expected it. Chrom or Lucina didn't really have good moveset potential in the first place, but at least being a clone is nice enough since she's in the game at all.
2: I am way more than satisfied with how Robin turned out. I think I have a new main in him.
3. The detail put into Lucina's model is awesome anyway

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

The real kicker here to chrom fans is..after months of being told he won't get in because he would be a semi clone his own daughter gets in over him because she's potentially even more of a clone. Hm

And instead of just Chrom, we got two characters. One of them being unique. That's what makes this good.

 

[asia_catdog_blue]

1) We've known that ZSS and Sheik will have their own roster slot since E3...

2) Are you serious? Why would they not deserve that? I personally think Lucina deserves it even if she has minor differences from Marth. WIth that said, why would Zero and Sheik not deserve it if they play COMPLETELY different from Samus and Zelda?

Namely because they're the same character?! I don't think it's right of the same person in a different form to take another roster slot.

Technically, the Links are two different characters, but damn if they had much "true" difference between them.

 

[Berserker.]

It doesn't matter if Lucina deserves it or not

She got her own slot

Might as well deal with it

 

[Hong]

Namely because they're the same character?! I don't think it's right of the same person in a different form to take another roster slot.

Technically, the Links are two different characters, but damn if they had much "true" difference between them.

It's not like they throw together a UI the very first thing they do in game development, draw a number out of a hat and say "WE'LL HAVE THIS MANY CHARACTERS".

No, I don't believe in "slots". Pokemon and Fire Emblem are very different, in that two companies have to manage literally over a thousand characters and it's always better for Mr. Sakurai to come to them for advice. I am sure they may have a ballpark idea for how many characters they want, but I don't think Lucina took away any characters that may have appeared. Sakurai isn't at all pretending she is a full blown new character. She wasn't the focus of the announcement for a reason.

Lucina requires absolute minimal development time compared to other characters. They could just copy+paste Marth and call him Marth 2 and use him to test attributes while they wait for art assets. Something like her model and voice is NOTHING for Nintendo, considering the very same game she came from was expected to sell 300k copies yet has over 30 voice actors... many the best in the business. Nintendo doesn't care about that kind of cost.

 

[DraginHikari]

This particularly update did not only clarify what Lucina is but did give us some insight into what Sakurai seems a slot, which is one that always made sense to me. If a skin has any stats or move changes of any kind they should have their own slot. There really shouldn't be stat differences based on what color alt you chose on the selection screen.

As far as clones, I'm not really bothered by clones as much as I did. I was annoyed about it slightly in Melee mostly because the vast majority of the new characters were clone characters in one form or another. This time around nearly every newcomer at this point has been entirely different from other characters on the roster so I can live with a couple of new clone characters really.

 

[Mypantisgone]

This update is exactly what I wanted Sakurai to do. I was confused about Lucina.

But what surprises me is that, while they don't have the same gimmicks, why not just bring back Roy for that? Not that it bothers me (yay for more females?), but Sakurai's unpredictable choices strike again.

 

[Ryuutakeshi]

You know what? This is actually the longest POTD we've gotten in a while. Very informative. Reminds me of the old dojo.

EDIT: Once again, they're not bringing back Roy because you guys are the only ones who even care about him. He's old news. He's over 10 years out of date. There are newer and much more popular (and much more recognizable) characters to use. Heck, Roy's game was never released in the west. The first time western audiences saw him was either in 7's epilogue or in Awakening DLC. I'm sorry, but Roy IS NOT coming back. Not while Fire Emblem continues to shine on.

 

[spader13]

I'm very glad Sakurai clarified Lucina's role to end the debate (though I'm sure it will start new whining about Fire Emblem getting too many reps, especially with one being a clone). That said, she's definitely a Melee style clone, so while she'll be fine for this iteration and a good way to introduce people to Marth, I'll be completely fine if she gets cut for the next game.