Mii Fighter: Competitive Scene Implications

[Lukingordex]

Ok, good luck learning a MU with 36 different possibilities of special attacks lulz

 

[LiteralGrill]

Ok, good luck learning a MU with 36 different possibilities of special attacks lulz

Is it really that hard? It just changes the game. Keeping things the same for the sake of some kind of tradition is a fallacy. This new game brings new things, we need to explore them first before banning them.

 

[Lukingordex]

Considering Mii's moveset costumization being unbanned, this means that every other character moveset costumization would have to be allowed too, right?

Think about a competitive scene with like, 40 characters, and all of them having different possibilities of moveset.
Just think.

Your guys have to understand Smash Bros. isn't Mario Kart where customizing vehicles is cool.

 

[Erimir]

We still don't even know if there will be default-installed fighter profiles.

(I know I'm grasping at straws, but I really don't want them banned or restricted because I won't be able to use them without my conscience nagging "oh ****, I'm cheating, I'm cheating".)

If they were restricted to a certain size, it wouldn't be for being overpowered, it would be to make them more consistent. Basically for training purposes. How would using them be "cheating"?

They're probably going to disallow stat modifying equipment for all characters, it's the exact same thing except Miis have it built in.

 

[LiteralGrill]

Considering Mii's moveset costumization being unbanned, this means that every other character moveset costumization would have to be allowed too, right?

Think about a competitive scene with like, 40 characters, and all of them having different possibilities of moveset.
Just think.

Okay, I'm not getting how bad this really is. It's just more depth, more to learn, something new and different to try.

 

[Saikyoshi]

If they were restricted to a certain size, it wouldn't be for being overpowered, it would be to make them more consistent. Basically for training purposes. How would using them be "cheating"?

They're probably going to disallow stat modifying equipment for all characters, it's the exact same thing except Miis have it built in.

If they're standardized, then I'd have to sacrifice playing as my own Miis to meet the standard.

In other words, I'd lose the entire reason to play as a Mii in the first place.

 

[Oracle_Summon]

Being able to have your Mii Fighter's Height and Attributes adjustable and that it effects their playstyle, that will definetly help them in the competitive scene.

Source:

http://playeressence.com/mii-characters-will-have-different-fighting-attributes-based-on-size/

 

[Lukingordex]

In other words, I'd lose the entire reason to play as a Mii in the first place.

Don't lie plz, your favorite character has always had a default moveset and you still enjoyed to play as him.

 

[Erimir]

Ok, good luck learning a MU with 36 different possibilities of special attacks lulz

81 combinations. All characters would have 81 combinations. Sure, Miis moves are less similar, but that's partly about aesthetics - DK's storm punch likely does not play at all similarly to Giant Punch, despite both being punches.

And most combinations are not going to be more than the sum of their parts. Meaning it's really just the 12 moves... Certain combinations may be especially dangerous together but we'll find that out after release.

If they're standardized, then I'd have to sacrifice playing as my own Miis to meet the standard.

In other words, I'd lose the entire reason to play as a Mii in the first place.

Ok, but that's nothing to do with honor/cheating...

 

[LiteralGrill]

If they're standardized, then I'd have to sacrifice playing as my own Miis to meet the standard.

In other words, I'd lose the entire reason to play as a Mii in the first place.

Well minus on the 3DS where you could bring your Mii on its own console to events, how do you expect people on the Wii U to let you and everyone else take the time to make their own Miis for every match? it'd be insane...

 

[Saikyoshi]

Ok, but that's nothing to do with honor/cheating...

It really does... Being moved to Übers for versatility and unpredictability is still being moved to Übers.

Well minus on the 3DS where you could bring your Mii on its own console to events, how do you expect people on the Wii U to let you and everyone else take the time to make their own Miis for every match? it'd be insane...

There'll probably be sharing options, like exporting to an Amiibo or a QR code, like I said before...

Don't lie plz, your favorite character has always had a default moveset and you still enjoyed to play as him.

Because it fit the character.

Wit Miis, I have to adjust the move set to fit the individual it portrays, or it'll just look wrong.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Yeah, this is a difficult subject and it would definitely take a lot of experimentation to come up with something that would be dubbed fair competitively. I like the idea of each Fighter having a de facto character with stats and moves people have agreed on. Like they showed in the trailer, how about Reggie as the Mii Brawler? Come up with a set that anybody who wanted to fight as Mii Brawler in a tournament setting would have to use for it to be allowed. This, of course, would assume that people would be willing to put in the experimentation to come up with something instead of just entirely opting out of them. The Miis have potential and could help prevent the balance issues that happened with Brawl but they will definitely take time that many people may not be willing to dedicate to "figuring them out."

 

[Erimir]

It really does... Being moved to Übers for versatility and unpredictability is still being moved to Übers.

if you're unable to use the versatility and unpredictability, then it's not "uber" anymore. That's the whole point of forcing a standard Mii!

 

[Saikyoshi]

if you're unable to use the versatility and unpredictability, then it's not "uber" anymore. That's the whole point of forcing a standard Mii!

Which is boring as ****.

The thing about default Miis? They're nobody. They don't mean anything to me. They've never been in anything. So I don't care about them.

 

[TimeSmash]

A big question I haven't seen asked is if someone is playing as a Mii, are they limited to that particular Mii for the rest of the tournament? Cryptically worded question, but basically if you're playing with one moveset on a Mii would you be forced to keep that moveset if you use a Mii again later on? This would be hard to monitor, but could definitely help streamline the process. Pre-registering which moveset you're going to use could also help.

I'm all for customization, but clearly we need some standards in place. Like if you want to play as your particular Mii on WiiU, that's really difficult since everyone is bringing in setups from who knows where. Although, it's definitely possible for a rule to be put in place that if you plan to use a Mii, get to the event early so you can do your thing. It's really baffling to think of how this will actually work in the tournament scene.

 

[Erimir]

Which is boring as ****.

The thing about default Miis? They're nobody. They don't mean anything to me. They've never been in anything. So I don't care about them.

...like I said, OK, you can think default Mii is boring, but using it wouldn't be "dishonorable" according to your thing about not using S-tiers. Unless all three Mii Fighters are S-tier even with default settings.

 

[Saikyoshi]

...like I said, OK, you can think default Mii is boring, but using it wouldn't be "dishonorable".

Using personal Miis would, though, if they're banned. That's the point I'm trying to get at.

Default Miis and Personal Miis are completely separate characters in how they play.

 

[Lukingordex]

Which is boring as ****.

The thing about default Miis? They're nobody. They don't mean anything to me. They've never been in anything. So I don't care about them.

How the hell you already know the Mii's default settings are going to be boring?
lololol

 

[Saikyoshi]

How the hell you already know the Mii's default settings are going to be boring?
lololol

The thing about Miis is, it's not about the moves. It's about the character they represent. Default Miis represent nobody, they're just empty, generic.

 

[TimeSmash]

How the hell you already know the Mii's default settings are going to be boring?
lololol

I think he meant in terms of appearance/aesthetics, not actual movesets.

Edit: Ninja'd by a sack yoshi

 

[Lukingordex]

Well, I can understand his reasons, but the fact that he doesn't like it because of the aesthetics means NOTHING against allowing or banning Miis with custom movesets.

 

[Saikyoshi]

Well, I can understand his reasons, but the fact that he doesn't like it because of the aesthetics means NOTHING against allowing or banning Miis with custom movesets.

I know, I know. I'm just going to be upset if a major new feature is rendered completely unusable.

 

[Second Power]

Why's everyone freaking out? The description is so extremely vague. I fail to see how this is enough information to induce a day one ban.

And could we please stop jumping the gun? I'd like to advocate for innocent until proven guilty. If we implement any policy day one, it will not get overturned, even if we say it's just temporary. And this is three movesets we're talking about banning.

 

[Silvalfo]

I'd say that any customization beyond default configs should be instabanned. Considering Miis are custom per essence, I'd drop the hammer of banishment on their ridiculous faces on the day the game comes out. That'd save the competitive community of alot of headaches. Just throw into oblivion any Mii and any custom special moveset and we're all cool.

Letting customizations into competitive play would make tourneys take longer due to the wait for each player to customize (as if time wasn't an issue already), mess up MU learning and create a horribly complex and unintelligible counterpicking system. Not even counting the possibility of moves or combinations being broken out of a gazillion permutations.

just my opinion tho. I put custom/mii-allowed tournaments on the same level as items-on tournaments or something that puts Norfair and Big Blue as counterpicking stages.

edit: I wasn't even considering size/weight variations between Miis, which now really make hundreds of possible movesets. jeez

 

[Fatmanonice]

I do think it's important that the Mii Fighters actually are someone too. As I've said numerous time, my vote goes to famous Nintendo developers and people who have been important to it.

 

[Saikyoshi]

@ Silvalfo : I already said why learning the matchups wouldn't be that complicated, but allow me to repeat myself - the large number of combinations are made of a very small number of parts which we 'll see individually very often. New combinations of the same stuff wouldn't be very difficult to adapt to.

 

[TimeSmash]

What kind of system do you guys think could be put in place to alleviate the time issue customizing Mii movesets?? I'd advocate people getting to tournaments early to do it, but I can't think of an actual way to incorporate it. That topic might be for a new thread, however.

 

[Lukingordex]

Not even counting the possibility of moves or combinations being broken out of a gazillion permutations.

This

 

[LiteralGrill]

What kind of system do you guys think could be put in place to alleviate the time issue customizing Mii movesets?? I'd advocate people getting to tournaments early to do it, but I can't think of an actual way to incorporate it. That topic might be for a new thread, however.

Well on the 3DS you could just have Miis premade and saved. the 3DS has quite a few advantages on this customization thing.

 

[Second Power]

What kind of system do you guys think could be put in place to alleviate the time issue customizing Mii movesets?? I'd advocate people getting to tournaments early to do it, but I can't think of an actual way to incorporate it. That topic might be for a new thread, however.

Anyone using a Mii (or custom moveset) has to bring their 3DS version in order to transfer them (I think it was confirmed you could transfer between versions). If they don't have one, tough luck.

 

[Silvalfo]

@ Silvalfo : I already said why learning the matchups wouldn't be that complicated, but allow me to repeat myself - the large number of combinations are made of a very small number of parts which we 'll see individually very often. New combinations of the same stuff wouldn't be very difficult to adapt to.

You mean that the small number of parts that forge the core of recovering and character-specific ATs wouldn't be difficult to adapt to? I'm kinda skeptical about that.

 

[TimeSmash]

To be fair, if you already practiced beforehand with different Mii's movesets, shouldn't you know how to deal with certain moves already, especially if whoever you're facing has to reveal their custom moveset beforehand? Granted as a counterarugment you could say many character's playstyles focus heavily on their special moves (PM Zelda and Ivysaur as notable examples). Would the possibility of a character having different special moves be that much of a barrier to overcome?

If Miis come in three sizes, you could just use three Nintendo execs if we resort to default appearances (and possibly movesets). Miyamoto could be the small one, Reggie the medium one, and Sakurai the big one.

I never really actually thought about how big of a deal this topic would be. Thanks everyone for contributing, even if we don't exactly agree.

 

[Neo Zero]

Miyamoto - Small
Iwata - Medium
Reggie - Large

Problem solved.

 

[Second Power]

I'd say that any customization beyond default configs should be instabanned. Considering Miis are custom per essence, I'd drop the hammer of banishment on their ridiculous faces on the day the game comes out. That'd save the competitive community of alot of headaches. Just throw into oblivion any Mii and any custom special moveset and we're all cool.

No and no. Know why custom movesets won't get banned day one (or at all)? Because every character will be slightly improved by them. Even if it's just one custom move they'd rather have over their default, that's enough. People will fight and fight for them. Bowser mains will demand their projectile, Mario mains want their decent approach move, etc.

And why won't Miis be banned? Because we don't ban characters. Banned characters drives tons of players away.

Letting customizations into competitive play would make tourneys take longer due to the wait for each player to customize (as if time wasn't an issue already), mess up MU learning and create a horribly complex and unintelligible counterpicking system. Not even counting the possibility of moves or combinations being broken out of a gazillion permutations.

• To wait: Stage striking makes tourneys take longer, but we still do it because it makes the game better. And if it's possible to transfer from 3DS to Wii U, that'll cut down time.
• To MU: If we allow all custom moves (see above), it isn't a big deal. It just becomes another part of learning the MU.
• To CPing: Lock movesets from first game. Problem solved.
• To broken moves: Oh boy, where have we seen stuff like that and what have we ever done about it?

I could see maybe restricting sizes, but banning three characters is insane.

 

[Saikyoshi]

And why won't Miis be banned? Because we don't ban characters. Banned characters drives tons of players away.

[...]

I could see maybe restricting sizes, but banning three characters is insane.

Yes and yes. You know why I stopped being a competitive Pokémon player? I kept on worrying that the moment I found something that worked, it would get banned. I understand that Pokémon is a balancing nightmare that makes bans necessary, but it was a psychological obstacle course.

 

[TimeSmash]

So @ Second Power what's your solution to people who don't have 3DSes? I guess you could always have a friend make you Mii on their 3DS and upload it if they have one. Do you think 3DSes are a requirement for Mii custom moveset play then, kind of in the vein of "bring your own controller" to tournaments?

God, imagine the Streetpasses Smash 4 tournaments will have haha. The systems will probably be blowing up

 

[LiteralGrill]

I'm thinking more that since you can have you Miis on your 3DS already, 3DS tournaments wont have to worry about time restraints.

 

[TimeSmash]

I'm thinking more that since you can have you Miis on your 3DS already, 3DS tournaments wont have to worry about time restraints.

Ah, forgive me, I was speaking in terms of WiiU tournaments.

 

[LiteralGrill]

Ah, forgive me, I was speaking in terms of WiiU tournaments.

In that case in all honesty you might as well just have the 3 premade miis of some kind as a compromise to save time. Allowing tons of people to upload miis onto tons of systems would be a logistics nightmare.

 

[Second Power]

So @ Second Power what's your solution to people who don't have 3DSes? I guess you could always have a friend make you Mii on their 3DS and upload it if they have one. Do you think 3DSes are a requirement for Mii custom moveset play then, kind of in the vein of "bring your own controller" to tournaments?

God, imagine the Streetpasses Smash 4 tournaments will have haha. The systems will probably be blowing up

TOs discretion. If it's small tournament, they might give a pass and allow players to spend a couple customizing before matches. Otherwise, players either have to get a friend to help them (like you said) or play without custom moves.