Mii Fighter: Competitive Scene Implications

[Leonyx]

Meta Knight destroys that entire argument. Plus, nothing should be banned unless it's actually broken, whether it's "better" or not. WAY to subjective there.

I'm only talking about broken characters. That's why I brought up Shao Khan. Metaknight is not so broken that there aren't any characters that can oppose him, which is why he wasn't banned (well, except for that small period I think).

@ Leonyx : I am a competitive player. The only reason that I haven't yet participated in a tournament is an inability to travel.

If they're banned, that means it would officially be cheating if I used them, and that would ****ing suck because I really wanted to get excited about that feature. I love character creation in general, and it's something I've wanted in Smash for a very long time. And now that it's finally here, a bunch of scrubs want to label it as cheating day one because they can't adjust to change or account for any kind of variance.

So that's why I'm strongly considering renouncing my competitive allegiance and leaving the Super Smash Bros. fandom in general; everything I heard about the tournament scene has turned out to be true. You really do care more about seeing what you can ban next than unlocking the game's full potential. In short, I gave it a try, and I'm sickened by what I'm seeing. I studied. I trained. I spent tons of hours behind a GC controller. I wasted my time.

So congratulations, Smashboards. You've turned me from completely hyped to completely repulsed in just one week.

I am not a representative of competitive Smash. Truth be told, I've only fought in like two tournaments of any SSB, and they were not serious. I'd just consider myself competitive in that I want tournaments to be fair for others looking to travel for it. Bans wouldn't affect my enjoyment of the game. Shoot, you could call me a scrub if you wanted to. I was just posting my opinion because I like talking about this stuff when I feel like I have a point that wasn't considered.

It's very possible that this opinion is not shared by a majority of the community. I'm not sure how many people you've been talking to, so it might help to get more opinions on the matter instead of just listening to me. Please don't form an opinion from just me.

Super Smash Bros. is kind of difficult to have a competitive scene for because the game is not just designed with 1 on 1 fighting and fairness in mind. And that's fine because many consider it to be a party game. There are several things that Smash has that are unfair (such as Smash Balls) that are unfair to allow in competitive play. This community is ban happy, yes, but generally for good reason. As I've said before, it's too early to decide what should be banned or not. We haven't had a chance to try the game. I'm not familiar with the banning process of past Smashes, but I'm all but positive the community goes through a testing phase before coming to a conclusion about any bans. This would probably include Miis.

Edit: In fact, I don't think we've gotten actual competitive opinions on the subject. Has Mew2King or the like weighed in on this?

 

[Saikyoshi]

@ Leonyx : I don't think anyone major has said their stance yet, but things look dire from what I've seen.

Anyway, items and stages are different than characters. Banned stages give characters an immediately obvious advantage. Items add an element of randomness, and though the debate rages on on whether some* should be allowed, it's usually agreed that randomness is undesirable.

A character, however, is the lifeblood of the game. Every one has a specific purpose. Miis' purposes are that they're simple to play, simple to adjust to so any face can fit on them.

I sincerely don't think that move or size variance will be significant in learning to fight them at all.

(*I currently have no stance on the item debate. I play with all items except smash ball on medium personally, but not when training, and even when they're on I try not to rely on them.)

 

[LiteralGrill]

@ Leonyx you had asked if competitive players have chimed in on this. I'll give you a serious thought. A competitive player makes a lot of money on smash. Why would they want to allow something to be legal, even if it's okay and could be used, if it could make it harder for them to get that money, or would risk their success? Players in the past have literally banned things JUST for that reason, read up on some old smashboards posts and you can actually see it happening. I wouldn't trust those players AT ALL on ANY legality issue.

@ Saikyoshi Don't give up on competitive smash. If people who want to try these things just give up and leave there will be no one to fight for it. I see that customized stuff including Miis are going to be a BIG challenge for TOs, but I still plan to tackle them personally. Worse comes to worse, a new community will form around these and a haven will be made for them. When online play was pretty much laughed at for Brawl here (and the players who liked it were basically insulted constantly), AllIsBrawl came to life and a ton of people flocked there. Trust me, if customization becomes that huge of a division in the community, people will find a place to make it happen as long as it's not broken somehow.

 

[Leonyx]

@ Leonyx : I don't think anyone major has said their stance yet, but things look dire from what I've seen.

Anyway, items and stages are different than characters. Banned stages give characters an immediately obvious advantage. Items add an element of randomness, and though the debate rages on on whether some* should be allowed, it's usually agreed that randomness is undesirable.

A character, however, is the lifeblood of the game. Every one has a specific purpose. Miis' purposes are that they're simple to play, simple to adjust to so any face can fit on them.

I sincerely don't think that move or size variance will be significant in learning to fight them at all.

(*I currently have no stance on the item debate. I play with all items except smash ball on medium personally, but not when training, and even when they're on I try not to rely on them.)

I think you're making a lot of assumptions as to how Miis are played. You could say I'm doing that as well, but I think their whole gimmick and purpose is the ability to customize the moveset and stats to make to most synergized Mii possible for your playstyle. That seems complicated to me (but very fun!). They don't seem simple to play or adjust if you want to be the best.

I wouldn't take what people have said on this thread or others as representation of the competitive community's opinion on this though, unless they have a reputation. I think you should just leave it to the people who actually make judgment calls on these kinds of things. At least let them look at it before deciding on buying the game or not. I think a lot of the people here just want to discuss the game and their opinions and aren't trying to force people to ban stuff outright (including myself). We don't have the authority to make calls like that.

(I actually like to play with items on high (Smash Balls included) unless I'm playing a 1 on 1. I'm actually interested in at least trying items if the spawn placements are predictable.)

Edit: @ LiteralGrill I don't think the kinds of people you're talking about make these decisions. As far as I'm aware, there's a section of each community that is chosen to ban certain things after a long debate. I've been lurking here since mid way into Melee (I forgot my account log in from before so it seems like I'm not as old), but I don't recall any bans that were selfish in nature. Can you point me to any bans you felt were unjustified, or people you think make bad calls for bans?

 

[Saikyoshi]

@ Leonyx you had asked if competitive players have chimed in on this. I'll give you a serious thought. A competitive player makes a lot of money on smash. Why would they want to allow something to be legal, even if it's okay and could be used, if it could make it harder for them to get that money, or would risk their success? Players in the past have literally banned things JUST for that reason, read up on some old smashboards posts and you can actually see it happening. I wouldn't trust those players AT ALL on ANY legality issue.

@ Saikyoshi Don't give up on competitive smash. If people who want to try these things just give up and leave there will be no one to fight for it. I see that customized stuff including Miis are going to be a BIG challenge for TOs, but I still plan to tackle them personally. Worse comes to worse, a new community will form around these and a haven will be made for them. When online play was pretty much laughed at for Brawl here (and the players who liked it were basically insulted constantly), AllIsBrawl came to life and a ton of people flocked there. Trust me, if customization becomes that huge of a division in the community, people will find a place to make it happen as long as it's not broken somehow.

Alright, I'll give it another chance.

I had no idea about the back room corruption thing, though.

I think you're making a lot of assumptions as to how Miis are played. You could say I'm doing that as well, but I think their whole gimmick and purpose is the ability to customize the moveset and stats to make to most synergized Mii possible for your playstyle. That seems complicated to me (but very fun!). They don't seem simple to play or adjust if you want to be the best.

I wouldn't take what people have said on this thread or others as representation of the competitive community's opinion on this though, unless they have a reputation. I think you should just leave it to the people who actually make judgment calls on these kinds of things. At least let them look at it before deciding on buying the game or not. I think a lot of the people here just want to discuss the game and their opinions and aren't trying to force people to ban stuff outright (including myself). We don't have the authority to make calls like that.

(I actually like to play with items on high (Smash Balls included) unless I'm playing a 1 on 1. I'm actually interested in at least trying items if the spawn placements are predictable.)

I'm just hoping that the community will look at it first. Knowing them, they most likely won't.

(The only reason I don't play with smash balls even casually is because they appear way too often. I don't like every KO being the same.)

 

[Leonyx]

I'm just hoping that the community will look at it first. Knowing them, they most likely won't.

(The only reason I don't play with smash balls even casually is because they appear way too often. I don't like every KO being the same.)

I'm confident that they'll at least wait until we have a lot more information before making a decision.

 

[LiteralGrill]

Alright, I'll give it another chance.

I had no idea about the back room corruption thing, though.

It's not the backroom. Honestly, the backroom has always been good about these things, however the backroom itself also has NO relevance. No one follows their recommended rules anyways so sadly they are pretty useless. It's TOs and top players you need to watch, several have seriously said in threads that things have been banned simply out of dislike. Some are members of the backroom, but a lot of them actually aren't (especially top players). The whole concept of a backroom itself is horrible and should be eliminated anyways for being useless and stupid.

If you really are interested I could go in depth on a PM or something (I'm a "smash scholar" of sorts and have read one too many threads.)

 

[BBG|Scott-Spain]

While it would be a serious undertaking, I'm all for Mii's being legal so long as we can agree to standards for each type. Having to deal with the size of Mii's makes this way more complicated, but still doable.

 

[Erimir]

@ Erimir : The problem with forcing a default size is that every end-user will have to adjust every single solitary Mii manually in Mii Maker, which for one thing automatically disqualifies any that you didn't make yourself. This also poses an aesthetics problem because not every character fits one height and a default setting would just look wrong on them.

Not to mention it would affect all of a user's games that use Miis, not just Super Smash Bros.

This is simply not true. You don't need to "adjust every single solitary Mii manually". You don't need to affect all of your games. You just need one Mii at the default size. That's it.

If you're playing in a tournament, you're probably not using your own Wii U. Importing everyone's personal Mii for use during the tournament seems like an impractical waste of time. Yes, it makes it less fun for you if you can't use your favorite Dr. Zoidberg Mii or whatever during the tournament, but the tournament is about the game play and competition. There is a limited amount of time for such things. So you probably weren't going to be playing as your Mii in a tournament anyway, even if size variations were allowed (assuming there are only like 3 of them).

For tournament practice, you can pick one Mii that is at the default size and use that.

For everything else, you would be able do whatever you want.

You act like this would ruin the whole game, when it is really quite minor.

Even so, it remains to be seen how much variation there is and whether it would actually be a problem. I agree that it shouldn't be banned day one. You're overreacting when there's plenty we still don't know about how Mii Fighters will work. And unlike items, I think people will give them a chance.



And, I mean, you're free to do whatever, but seriously, why would Miis being banned in tournaments make you not buy the game? Is there nothing enjoyable in the entire rest of the game? Seriously? Did you buy Brawl, even though Miis weren't included in it almost at all? What do tournament players, who you have never even played with, have to do with whether the game is enjoyable? You've gone this long without playing in a tournament, did you not enjoy Brawl? I don't get letting some finicky tournament scene dictate your enjoyment, especially when you've been playing and enjoying the game for years without them anyway.

I don't play in tournaments, I'm just a interested spectator. If the tournament scene implodes, that will be sad, but I'm sure I'll still enjoy the hell out of playing the game with my friends.

 

[Saikyoshi]

This is simply not true. You don't need to "adjust every single solitary Mii manually". You don't need to affect all of your games. You just need one Mii at the default size. That's it.

If you're playing in a tournament, you're probably not using your own Wii U. Importing everyone's personal Mii for use during the tournament seems like an impractical waste of time. Yes, it makes it less fun for you if you can't use your favorite Dr. Zoidberg Mii or whatever during the tournament, but the tournament is about the game play and competition. There is a limited amount of time for such things. So you probably weren't going to be playing as your Mii in a tournament anyway, even if size variations were allowed (assuming there are only like 3 of them).

For tournament practice, you can pick one Mii that is at the default size and use that.

For everything else, you would be able do whatever you want.

You act like this would ruin the whole game, when it is really quite minor.

Even so, it remains to be seen how much variation there is and whether it would actually be a problem. I agree that it shouldn't be banned day one. You're overreacting when there's plenty we still don't know about how Mii Fighters will work. And unlike items, I think people will give them a chance.



And, I mean, you're free to do whatever, but seriously, why would Miis being banned in tournaments make you not buy the game? Is there nothing enjoyable in the entire rest of the game? Seriously? Did you buy Brawl, even though Miis weren't included in it almost at all? What do tournament players, who you have never even played with, have to do with whether the game is enjoyable? You've gone this long without playing in a tournament, did you not enjoy Brawl? I don't get letting some finicky tournament scene dictate your enjoyment, especially when you've been playing and enjoying the game for years without them anyway.

I don't play in tournaments, I'm just a interested spectator. If the tournament scene implodes, that will be sad, but I'm sure I'll still enjoy the hell out of playing the game with my friends.

We've already talked about the issue if importing Miis. I'm pretty sure you're only allowed to play as one character in a tournament anyway, but it can be any character.

As for the second thing, I got older. I was twelve when Brawl came out. I didn't notice the fandom before, but now I do and I can't avoid it. This is going to cause one hell of a deep chasm between the subcultures, one that this community won't be able to dig its way out of. And it's going to be ugly.

 

[wafflini]

We've already talked about the issue if importing Miis. I'm pretty sure you're only allowed to play as one character in a tournament anyway, but it can be any character.

As for the second thing, I got older. I was twelve when Brawl came out. I didn't notice the fandom before, but now I do and I can't avoid it. This is going to cause one hell of a deep chasm between the subcultures, one that this community won't be able to dig its way out of. And it's going to be ugly.

Not to sound rude, but i dont think you really have the knowledge to say that banning Mii's day one will tear the community apart. While I do not disagree that it will cause some serious issues to this community as a whole, i dont think that either of us have lived to see smash enough to judge that soundly. You were 12 when brawl came out, and i was even younger. Neither of us were around for the 64, or the early days of melee were the tournament scene was really being shaped into what it is today. All you have to go one with saying that is merely a hunch. And on top of that, this is only the 4th smash game. Four is not a large number, and we have never really scene such an issue arise as this. It is in a completely different category from things like items. It is an entire character.

No matter what the decision is regarding Mii's in tournaments, no one can accurately say they know how it will effect us.

 

[Saikyoshi]

Not to sound rude, but i dont think you really have the knowledge to say that banning Mii's day one will tear the community apart. While I do not disagree that it will cause some serious issues to this community as a whole, i dont think that either of us have lived to see smash enough to judge that soundly. You were 12 when brawl came out, and i was even younger. Neither of us were around for the 64, or the early days of melee were the tournament scene was really being shaped into what it is today. All you have to go one with saying that is merely a hunch. And on top of that, this is only the 4th smash game. Four is not a large number, and we have never really scene such an issue arise as this. It is in a completely different category from things like items. It is an entire character.

No matter what the decision is regarding Mii's in tournaments, no one can accurately say they know how it will effect us.

I do, however, have precedents to cite. There's a very good reason I keep mentioning the Pokémon fandom; the schism between casual and competitive is completely insurmountable almost entirely because of the character bans.

In addition, even within Smash, the ban on Meta Knight was so chaotic that he had to be unbanned, remember?

 

[wafflini]

I do, however, have precedents to cite. There's a very good reason I keep mentioning the Pokémon fandom; the schism between casual and competitive is completely insurmountable almost entirely because of the character bans.

In addition, even within Smash, the ban on Meta Knight was so chaotic that he had to be unbanned, remember?

Most high level tourneys never did ban metaknight.

 

[Number1MinunFan]

I dont they big tournaments would allow importing of miis due to time but they will probably have miis already made for people to use,maybe Reggie,Sakuari,and Myoimoto

 

[Banjodorf]

Look, SOME kind of Mii is going to be legal, and I'm almost 100% certain it'll be average-height, default moveset. (assuming that's how custom moves turn out for tournies.)

As long as people won't get too salty about not being able to play huge or small Miis competitively, I don't see any problems, and Bill Cosby may one day beat the **** out of Meta Knight or Diddy in a grand final.

 

[Saikyoshi]

Look, SOME kind of Mii is going to be legal, and I'm almost 100% certain it'll be average-height, default moveset. (assuming that's how custom moves turn out for tournies.)

As long as people won't get too salty about not being able to play huge or small Miis competitively, I don't see any problems, and Bill Cosby may one day beat the **** out of Meta Knight or Diddy in a grand final.

People are getting salty about it right now. I'M getting salty about it right now because I don't want to have to adjust the heights of each and every Mii stored on my system.

And like I said before, I CAN'T tweak Miis made by someone else, meaning Reggie and co. would be outright banned.

 

[Banjodorf]

Look, I can't say for certain that 9 essentially-different characters are going to be deemed viable, or unviable. What I know is that it's alot to ask to learn that many different Miis, and remember that even the smallest thing can lead to a huge advantage in fighting games in general.

It just makes sense to have the average height be used, at the very least. TOs will likely have at least one of each Mii on their systems, and players may be able to customize the appearance. Let's talk about the viability of the extreme heights once we reach that, and focus on the fact that at least one should be viable, without too many complications.

 

[LeeYawshee]

When I read this thread I imagined someone saying "Medium size miis, default movesets, 3 default miis based off 3 random people (probably Gunner Lincoln, Brawler Reggie, and Swordsman Iwata)"

I do like the 9 miis idea but I don't know how much patience they would have for it.

 

[Saikyoshi]

And since everyone has custom moves, everyone has the same "unfair" advantage. Mario's Rapid Fireball is dealt with differently than a normal Fireball.

And the sizes wouldn't be too much to learn because standard attacks can't be customized - running speed isn't going to affect the speed of a Side Smash.

 

[Banjodorf]

I want custom moves to be as tourney-viable as everything else. And I'm almost entirely convinced we're going to give them a chance. (And as someone who wants to main Palutena, I sure hope that's the case.)

Let's just see how it pans out, I'd just rather we get Miis at all than worry about people being butthurt if we can't use small or large ones. Totally going to have Lincoln/Cosby Gunners as one of my secondaries if I can actually use them.

I don't see why height is such a big deal to people who really want to use it. The gameplay implications are clear, but I don't feel like I quite sympathize with the "but I want to be my actual height" angle because at the end of the day, I think it matters alot less.

 

[Saikyoshi]

I want custom moves to be as tourney-viable as everything else. And I'm almost entirely convinced we're going to give them a chance. (And as someone who wants to main Palutena, I sure hope that's the case.)

Let's just see how it pans out, I'd just rather we get Miis at all than worry about people being butthurt if we can't use small or large ones. Totally going to have Lincoln/Cosby Gunners as one of my secondaries if I can actually use them.

I don't see why height is such a big deal to people who really want to use it. The gameplay implications are clear, but I don't feel like I quite sympathize with the "but I want to be my actual height" angle because at the end of the day, I think it matters alot less.

Another problem with that if that happens, though, we can only use Miis at tournaments relatively without practice, because there's a less than 3/700 chance that a given Mii we have at home is a legal one with the restrictions everybody's horking.

Defense against varied Miis is an easy matter - ways characters create openings and suffer from openings are relatively few. Practice WITH varied Miis is an entirely different matter, though, because once an opening is made, you have to know how to exploit it, and exploiting an opening successfully depends only on your own character, not the opponent.

tl;dr: Defensively, one Mii is the same as another of a slightly different height. Startup-offensively, same. Follow-up-wise, though, they're all different. Your height will only change your own performance, not the opponent's, because you can't defend mid-combo. You never could, against any character, so having different follow ups won't matter at all matchup-wise.

 

[Banjodorf]

That's true, but I feel like if they decide on a default Mii for tournaments, people who actually want to use them will practice with that height/moveset.

Some people are only going to play with character's default movesets, anyway. I sure hope YOU'RE right though, it would make things interesting.

 

[LiteralGrill]

I've still stated that at least for my 3DS tournaments I will not be banning anything until it is prove to be a problem. 9 more characters on the roster to learn is no reason to ban them. If it were 9 separate newcomers from nintendo series that argument wouldn't even be made.

 

[Number1MinunFan]

I see two solutions:

1. Have a default set of Miis that people will agree

2. Mii Side Tournaments

personally i would go with 1

 

[Saikyoshi]

I see two solutions:

1. Have a default set of Miis that people will agree

2. Mii Side Tournaments

personally i would go with 1

1. I've already made my arguments against this, so you know how strongly I feel against it.

2. About as many people care about side tournaments as they do about all-stages-legal tournaments. It's still a hard-ban , except worse because it's using that as an excuse.

 

[LiteralGrill]

Truly Miis need to at least have a shot on the 3DS where logistically they won't be as big an issue. It looks like we have 2 sizes for Miis right now. If we get the third (Mario Kart Style) that's still not enough to say they are too customizable to ban.

If it turned out every tweak in height and weight of a Mii could effect things (though we haven't seen a "fat" Mii so far) then we may have reason to compare them to other fighters. Customized play should have it's own meta if it can, if it can't be the standard on the Wii U for sme logistics reasons, it should be embraced on the 3DS where those reasons do not exist.

 

[Sonsa]

I don't see any problem with letting default size and move Miis be used, you could even customize their appearance if it doesn't take too long.
I'm not sure about using customizable moves - for any character - in competitions, but I'd love to see it. Sounds like they're being very careful with balance and every move has a drawback as well as a strength so... I don't really expect it to be possible to create a "broken" moveset in this game, but I guess we'll havta wait and see.

 

[OptimistNic]

I'm starting to think that the tournament scene will have 3 set characters, 1 for each class, and they'll have designs and characteristics that are exclusive to the Smash community. After all, we ARE the one who gave Randall his name, right? Why couldn't we do the same for Mii Fighters?

 

[Saikyoshi]

I'm starting to think that the tournament scene will have 3 set characters, 1 for each class, and they'll have designs and characteristics that are exclusive to the Smash community. After all, we ARE the one who gave Randall his name, right? Why couldn't we do the same for Mii Fighters?

Because, like I keep saying, it would destroy their entire point and eliminate most potential playstyles with them.

 

[SonicMario]

They can have Meta Knight's mask! They'll be banned for sure now!

(Kidding of course)

 

[OptimistNic]

Because, like I keep saying, it would destroy their entire point and eliminate most potential playstyles with them.

The whole problem IS those "potential playstyles" though. The enemy has to be readable based on moveset and characteristics, so the community would need to create various Miis with easy-to-understand playstyles in order for it to work. If you created whatever you wanted, it would not only confuse the opponent and create an imbalance, but it would also take too long to set up the match in a tournament because you would have to create your Mii, boot the game, and then choose the moves and stat changes that you want. They would need to have set characters available from the get-go for the sake of the event time and convenience. Maybe we can have more than 3 characters based on different sizes (since size changes speed and power).

What I'm basically saying is we won't be able to play as any Mii we want in tournaments because there would be too much problems. They would have to be unofficial or "friendly" tournaments that you host for fun, and not a paid event that has a limited run time.

 

[Saikyoshi]

The whole problem IS those "potential playstyles" though. The enemy has to be readable based on moveset and characteristics, so the community would need to create various Miis with easy-to-understand playstyles in order for it to work. If you created whatever you wanted, it would not only confuse the opponent and create an imbalance, but it would also take too long to set up the match in a tournament because you would have to create your Mii, boot the game, and then choose the moves and stat changes that you want. They would need to have set characters available from the get-go for the sake of the event time and convenience. Maybe we can have more than 3 characters based on different sizes (since size changes speed and power).

What I'm basically saying is we won't be able to play as any Mii we want in tournaments because there would be too much problems. They would have to be unofficial or "friendly" tournaments that you host for fun, and not a paid event that has a limited run time.

With the confirmed ability to transfer fighters from the 3DS to the Wii U, and likely other means as well, difficulty of setup is purely a non-issue.

And again with the matchups thing. No move is that versatile, and the opponent will know what moves you have beforehand.

 

[Probalo]

We can't tell as of yet whether or not the Mii fighter will be banned. We don't know how OP or what kind of priority it's moveset will have. We'll be able to tell when the game comes out.

 

[Starcutter]

I think we should allow the basic, no customization added miis in tournaments.

Tournament Wii Us could even make the basic Miis ahead of time.

 

[ancara22]

With the game out in Japan now, this IS a good question.

For allowing Miis, I think it can work best like this in my opinion: You can make your Mii as you like, but with 3-5 specific sizes based on what's considered most fair (and weight is another matter that can be figured out later), and keeping most of your moveset default, but allowed to choose one move to be different. But you have to tell your opponent which move you changed, and what you changed it too.

It would keep things set in a fair enough state with a reasonable number of variables you can keep under tabs, and also allow customization and plenty of variety in Mii looks. But also keeping things fair and even mostly for everyone. Everyone wins, and we can have fun and smash without hopefully too many issues.

And for those still worried, I'll do the math to hopefully keep ya happy:

3 styles, and 5 sizes TOTAL. That means you only have to worry about 15 bits of shenanigans here. And if one move is allowed to be customized, then it only goes up to 45 period. So either way, it both allows you to have fun as whatever Mii you wanna fight with/as mostly, whilst keeping it as fair as possible for those who have to fight them. If it works, then all should be good.....I hope.

 

[Yoshi Kirishima]

When you square up vs a Mii Brawler, you have no idea what special moves they have set to their character. When you square up against Mario, you know exactly what moves they have.

It would be like allowing the custom movesets shown from the April direct into tournaments. You don't know which Mario fireball you'll get.

Um, lost of fighting games have different moveset variations per character. Is that really a problem? Oh no, I don't know which fireball he'll use, he might surprise me the first time and hit me for 10%...

Mii Fighters are a bit different though, so we'll see.

But I think another question is, do many people actually even want Mii Fighters allowed in tournaments? Do we actually care about having these "no-face", likely non-nintendo characters?

 

[SonicMario]

But I think another question is, do many people actually even want Mii Fighters allowed in tournaments? Do we actually care about having these "no-face", likely non-nintendo characters?

The answer to both is yes.

Don't be so inconsiderate of those who do like the Miis and have an interest of possibly using them competitively one way or another. We shouldn't ban characters simply out of dislike for them.

 

[Yoshi Kirishima]

The answer to both is yes.

Don't be so inconsiderate of those who do like the Miis and have an interest of possibly using them competitively one way or another. We shouldn't ban characters simply out of dislike for them.

Well Wii Fighters are also not allowed online, which can be interpreted as them not intending them for competitive use or more as just for fun things.

 

[SonicMario]

Well Wii Fighters are also not allowed online, which can be interpreted as them not intending them for competitive use or more as just for fun things.

That's true. But so are Custom Movesets. And there seems to be a good following here on Smashboards dedicated to making Custom Movesets in tournies a thing. So even if Miis aren't allowed in tournaments where they have Customization off. They'll still have a place in the tournies that do make use of Custom Movesets (With two types of tournies, everybody wins). You should also remember that it's only regarding "With Anyone" in Online. Miis and Custom Movesets alike are unrestricted in matches with friends.

 

[Yoshi Kirishima]

That's true. But so are Custom Movesets. And there seems to be a good following here on Smashboards dedicated to making Custom Movesets in tournies a thing. So even if Miis aren't allowed in tournaments where they have Customization off. They'll still have a place in the tournies that do make use of Custom Movesets (With two types of tournies, everybody wins). You should also remember that it's only regarding "With Anyone" in Online. Miis and Custom Movesets alike are unrestricted in matches with friends.

Hmm, good points.