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Mid-to-Low Tier Counterpicks for High Tier Characters

JKJ

JKJ

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I’m genuinely interested…

What are the best (in your opinion) mid or low tier counters to various high tiers?

Let (in this case) high tier = B tier an above

Let mid to low tier = C tier and below

I’ll update the OP with any interesting insights on this matter that anyone has to offer.

Links to videos in these matchups are appreciated, or just an explanation of the matchup.

Bonus points if you play the low tier and you **** the high tier.

We are, of course, going to use the official MBR 2010 NTSC Tier List :

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=294748

High Tiers and Their Mid to Low Tier Counters

Fox:

Falco:

Jigglypuff:

1. Young Link- The obvious counterpick. We all know of it, some of us hate it, but it is undoubtedly a counterpick. Young Link can seriously out-camp Jiggs and use his projectiles to wall her out and make approach nigh-impossible. The bombs combo into boomerang, nair, or dair, and Young Link is hard to kill in this matchup. He also has a very protected recovery that removes much of the edgeguard potential of Jiggs’ aerials. Overall, this matchup can be hell for Jigglypuff if the Young Link plays it right.

Links:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8twwXHDIVBc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aU7G-A4D4nA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YdeWI05kxhg

Sheik:

Marth:

Peach:

Captain Falcon:

1. Pikachu - Surprisingly successful against the captain. Can combo with nairs, uairs, pretty much everything. Pikachu is small, so he's hard to hit, especially with the knee. Pika has far better gimping options and killing options in general. Not unwinnable for Falcon, but certainly not fun.

Links:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sh7KWap58e4

Ice Climbers:

I started it off with Young Link. I took the easy one, sorry guys :p

You’re still welcome to offer your opinions on the matchup and offer more low tier counters to Jiggs.

Thanks ahead of time for all of your responses! I’ve been wanting to make a thread like this for a long time. Can’t wait to read your insights!
 
rjgbadger

rjgbadger

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yeah when falcon is near the tent=pika gets a kill from one grab

also kirby just utilts fairs and fsmashes
 
V

Vkrm

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Ive heard from some that yoshi counters marth. I guess i could see it because of how heavy the dinosaur is without there being a reliable way to kill him.

:phone:
 
Xyzz

Xyzz

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Yoshi vs Marth is even. Same as PAL Sheik vs Yoshi.

So they aren't real counters, and it's probably not worth devoting all the time necessary to learn a character as weird as Yoshi. But you'll usually have the advantage if you can play the dinosaur, because the opponent will most likely know next to nothing about the matchup ;)
 
G

Gastogh

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Question slash suggestion: could YL play the projectile spam game against Peach as well?

It seems like he should be able to, seeing as he can outrun Jiggs, who is more maneuverable in the air than Peach.
 
B

bËst^

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I've found Young Link also being very strong against Peach. Due to lack of speed and easy to kill with either bomb -> dair/uair combo. Not as bad *** like jig vs. Y-Link, but not the easiest match up for peach anyways.

In PAL Zelda is pretty beast against Peach when compared to sheik-peach match-up. Hard to combo and heel can kill peach in low percentages (at least in small stages like YS). Also landing heel on peach has good percentages: OOS heel on floating peach or just short hopping doing double heels is efective. As far as I know, it outranges peach pretty effectively.

According to my game-experiece as IC-main, I've struggled a lot against doc.. So I feel like Doc got the advantage in this match. Luigi is also kinda hard match up for IC's. Luigi is way too easier to kill though and has worse options to gimb IC unlike doc, whos bair and grab combos causes some serious troubles.

Kinda feel -/own experience -based arguments, but I also feel those are some best Low tier vs. High tier match ups. Don't have any worldwide known players having these match ups very often but if needed I might have some own recorded stuff around (since I play peach pretty much also and I have a friends those main Zelda / Doc / Luigi).
 
oukd

oukd

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realistically cp'ing spacies/sheik with mid/low tiers isn't a thing. imo if you're winning by that you're winning by cheese rather than matchup advantage. i could see it for the other top characters though.

The Business said:
according to Ken, pikachu marth is 65-35 for pikachu lolol
Click to expand...
yea thats not true lmao, but i agree it is much better for pikachu than most people assume so it could still work as a counter.
 
Landry

Landry

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I seriously don't really think that YL beats Puff under normal circumstances.

The only basis for this is Armada's YL > Hbox's Puff. That's not much to base it off of. A normal YL vs an equally skilled Puff is probably 50-50 at best for YL.
 
Wobbles

Wobbles

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Zelda's not a counter to IC's. She's just annoying, but you can still win even just bulldozing through. It's boring and IC's still win it.
 
Upke

Upke

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I would have to agree on the Zelda CP against Peach that people have been touching on. I main Zelda, and my friend mains Peach, and I pretty much always win because the range on Zelda's bairs and fairs leaves her free from the potential downsmash. Peach is also floaty enough to do downthrows into bairs or dash attacks which can combo into other dash attacks until they DI it correctly. Also, since Zelda's recovery is so far-reaching, it's harder to get sniped by turnips from Peach.
 
iRobinhoood

iRobinhoood

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I had always hoped that someday some low tier character would have something similar to Falcon/Shiek against at least one of the top tier characters. For low tier I mean LOW, C tier and below.
 
KrazyKnux

KrazyKnux

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I honestly always thought Zelda vs. Peach was a winning match up for Zelda (although %-wise I don't know). What's your opinion on it Crimson?
 
JKJ

JKJ

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It looks like there is a substantial agreement that Pikachu is a counter for Falcon and Marth.
Should I update the OP?
Also, 100th post :D
 
Landry

Landry

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Seriously.

A lot of this stuff only works if the player making the CP plays perfectly and can legitimately out skill their opponents.
 
Xyzz

Xyzz

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Anybody who thinks Pikachu vs either Marth or CF is a 'counter' is delusional. Close enough to even so the guy with more match up experience is going to do pretty well? Probably.

Also: the only thing Zelda can do to have a winning match up against Peach is to use down b. Preferably by holding A at the start of the match.
 
JKJ

JKJ

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I guess I have to clarify what I meant by "counterpicks"
I meant a matchup where a low tier has enough tools to go even with or have a favorable matchup vs a high tier. Not necessarily a counterpick like sheik vs falcon.
sorry for the confusion.
 
phish-it

phish-it

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Low tier characters are low tier for a reason. They don't 'counter' top/high tiers because in retrospect these characters are good for a reason. It's one thing to use a low tier character as a surprise against certain high tier matchups if you play the character, but to pick up Zelda as a Peach counter because you struggle playing it as Falco is idiotic.
 
DoH

DoH

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Peach can steam roll Zelda, it's like a Peach ditto that the other peach can only kick you
 
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