Q&A Mewtwo Q&A Thread (Check Here)

[LordShade67]

So, Footstool > Disable. I noticed with certain characters like Roy, M2 ends up behind them. Is there a workaround to this, or....?

 

[chrisl31415]

You have to press diagonally downwards somewhere during/after the footstool (Not too early, otherwise you miss the footstool) in a way that you still get the disable (down-b) and not the confusion (side-b).
You can test this by jumping across the stage while holding diagonally downwords + B to get a feeling for this.

This is also mentioned in one of MySmashCorner's youtube videos.

 

[Heracr055]

What are Mewtwo's worst MU's? I find him pretty difficult to deal with as a Ryu main, and I'm looking into possible secondaries that can potentally deal with Mewtwo better

 

[Sonicninja115]

What are Mewtwo's worst MU's? I find him pretty difficult to deal with as a Ryu main, and I'm looking into possible secondaries that can potentally deal with Mewtwo better

Another hard one is the Diddy MU. I would suggest reading through the MU threads to find out what ones are especially bad, as well as see who top Mewtwo's lose to. (Richbrown, Abadango) Abadango lost to a Ryu in R1 of bracket once, and he has never been able to take out a top level Diddy. Make sure to form your opinions from a multitude of sources.

As for a secondary, please call 1-800-PICKA-TOPTIER. Basically, it is generally agreed upon that Diddy, Cloud and Shiek are good secondaries, as they are faster characters with good MU spreads. So, good MUs, different type of character. If you are playing Pac-man, Megaman wouldn't make a good secondary as he doesn't have that amazing of a MU spread and he plays a lot like Pac-man, meaning it is pretty easy for your opponent to adapt. I could go into more specific things, but that would take a while.

 

[Zarxrax]

I rarely use fastfalling when playing as mewtwo. Should I be using it frequently? What are some good aerials to use fast falling with?

 

[Sonicninja115]

I rarely use fastfalling when playing as mewtwo. Should I be using it frequently? What are some good aerials to use fast falling with?

Nair is good with FF as you can set up certain combos like Footstool-Disable. Fair is also good.

 

[Zarxrax]

Also, is there a trick to getting mewtwo to grab the ledge from a standing position, like this? http://gfycat.com/AchingDismalAustraliankestrel

I can do it easily with other characters, but I can almost never get it with Mewtwo.

 

[chrisl31415]

Also, is there a trick to getting mewtwo to grab the ledge from a standing position, like this? http://gfycat.com/AchingDismalAustraliankestrel

I can do it easily with other characters, but I can almost never get it with Mewtwo.

Yeah :/
With other charaters it's so easy to do that you sometimes hang on the ledge even if you didn't want to. With Mewtwos floatiness (Fall Speed, and other reasons) or whatever the exact reason for that is, it's really hard to do.

But, in that scenario: You can press diagonally downwards (left) and then roll the stick downwards and then to the right side. The speed you need for that feels like a 'Perfect Pivot'.

You can also do that, if you are not 'standing' on the ledge: Dash to the left, stick to neutral, then do the input above.

I can't tell you, if that's the optimal way to do it (Roll stick downwards necessary or can you flick it just from downwards left to right?), but I managed to get it like this. If there are easier inputs I would be happy if someone corrects me ^^

You also have the option to teleport cancel at the edge and grab it (from the stage).
You can also run offstage (e.g. left) and teleport to the ledge: The angle you need for a fast execution is between right (You most likely teleport back to the stage) and downwards right (Teleport under the stage and die): 337.5°

 

[Sonicninja115]

Also, is there a trick to getting mewtwo to grab the ledge from a standing position, like this? http://gfycat.com/AchingDismalAustraliankestrel

I can do it easily with other characters, but I can almost never get it with Mewtwo.

I am actually making a video on ways to do it! Expect it within a couple of weeks.

 

[Zarxrax]

I am actually making a video on ways to do it! Expect it within a couple of weeks.

Cool! Looking forward to it

 

[Green Zelda]

Hiya, new main here! Yesterday, during SSC top 8, abadango landed an utilt > usmash on ally to kill. After looking closely at mewtwo's utilt in training mode, it apparently has 3 different angles (in front of m2): one that launches enemies away, one that launches them high up, and one that pushes them in an angle sorta like corrin's dtilt. How can I land that last angle consistently? (what part of mewtwo's tail pushes them up like that?)

 

[Sonicninja115]

Hiya, new main here! Yesterday, during SSC top 8, abadango landed an utilt > usmash on ally to kill. After looking closely at mewtwo's utilt in training mode, it apparently has 3 different angles (in front of m2): one that launches enemies away, one that launches them high up, and one that pushes them in an angle sorta like corrin's dtilt. How can I land that last angle consistently? (what part of mewtwo's tail pushes them up like that?)

http://smashboards.com/threads/mewtwo-hitbox-visualization.432666/
You'll notice on the Utilt gif that there is a horizontal hitbox that appears for a couple of frames at the bottom of the move. This sends them into the Usmash. Most shorter characters will always get hit by it, and certain moves like Nair and Jab can cause the same. When an opponent comes out of Nair, they tumble a bit and make themselves shorter, allowing Utilt to hit and Jab just works for some reason.

 

[luke_atyeo]

hey dudes, I'm trying to collect a bunch of quick easy info graphics on essential character knowledge to make a quick reference guide for commentators (we all hate it when a commentator says something that is wrong)
This shulk thing here is an example of the kinda stuff I am looking for

I'm going around to all the character boards and it'll be a little messy for me to try and check them all, so if you have any cool things like that, or just some useful info that I could turn into a similar picture, please send me a message. Cheers lads.

 

[LordShade67]

More of a matchup-related question, but asking here out of curiosity: Is the Diddy MU really so bad for M2 that it "ruins" M2's solo-viability? Or is this an exaggeration?

 

[Sonicninja115]

More of a matchup-related question, but asking here out of curiosity: Is the Diddy MU really so bad for M2 that it "ruins" M2's solo-viability? Or is this an exaggeration?

I am currently discussing this MU and trying to find MU specific advice. But for now, Mewtwo is 0-7 at top level. At mid and high level the MU is pretty even though. I would suggest watching Aba Zero at Smash n splash and Aba Zinoto at CEO. One is completely lopsided, while the other isn't. It doesn't ruin his solo viability, but the MU seems to be hard. We will have to see if Rich and Aba are just missing a piece to the puzzle or if the MU is terrible.

 

[EternalFlare]

Also, is there a trick to getting mewtwo to grab the ledge from a standing position, like this? http://gfycat.com/AchingDismalAustraliankestrel

I can do it easily with other characters, but I can almost never get it with Mewtwo.

Was that a fall jump off the ledge to change direction for the fair? It happens really fast so it's hard to tell.

Would this work on most tournament legal stages? I can see it being a thing on DH, not so sure about FD or Smashville.

Also is it guaranteed or can they air dodge after the trump in time to avoid it?

 

[Zarxrax]

Was that a fall jump off the ledge to change direction for the fair? It happens really fast so it's hard to tell.

Would this work on most tournament legal stages? I can see it being a thing on DH, not so sure about FD or Smashville.

Also is it guaranteed or can they air dodge after the trump in time to avoid it?

That was found in the metagame thread, there is a link and bit of discussion there: http://smashboards.com/threads/the-...sing-frame-traps.415950/page-11#post-21085694

 

[EternalFlare]

Ignore this post.

 

[Murlough]

Is dtilt -> Dair actually a good mixup on some characters?

What it does to Fox and Mac is hilarious. I need to test to see what other characters I can get it on.

At 40% it trues on Mac.

It trues from 38%-43% if you want the spike hitbox. Other wise the move combos all the way up to 60% without that hitbox. (From what I can tell.)

Before anyone laughs at me and says "this will never be used in an actual match" or "we discovered this the day the patch came out!" I'm having fun. This isn't serious testing by any means.

 

[LordShade67]

This is MU-related, but any advice for Ness? MU feels super-annoying and the only thing it does is encourage me to counterpick Corrin.

 

[Zarxrax]

This is MU-related, but any advice for Ness? MU feels super-annoying and the only thing it does is encourage me to counterpick Corrin.

I have a lot of trouble with ness as well. He has really good aerials, and I feel like his f-air might beat out mewtwos, but I'm not sure. My best luck usually comes from not trying to challenge him directly in the air, but by trying to mix things up using phasing, and baiting out his aerials and then hitting once his is finished. Also never throw out a full charge shadow ball unless you know you got him locked in a missed tech or something where he wont be able to absorb it.

 

[MERPIS]

It's dumb, you have most people say "oh well, he wins against Sheik, as he can catch up really fast, and he get net kills insanely fast with the amount of damage he is at when Sheik is at kill percents." Then you have some of the same +1 Sheik people say "well actually Mewtwo loses because frame data." My favorite is Bayonetta though. "Mewtwo wins because WT affects him minimally and he has 2 kill throws to abuse Bayonetta with." AND THEN "It's even because Mewtwo is a freaking combo meal by Bayonetta." When in reality Bayonetta loses that solidly. I even heard some people say Marth and Lucina win because lmao swords, while they clearly ignore tail disjoints and shadow ball camps.

I get that Mewtwo was only relevant for 6 months now, but come on now. What does he lose?

 

[Sonicninja115]

It's dumb, you have most people say "oh well, he wins against Sheik, as he can catch up really fast, and he get net kills insanely fast with the amount of damage he is at when Sheik is at kill percents." Then you have some of the same +1 Sheik people say "well actually Mewtwo loses because frame data." My favorite is Bayonetta though. "Mewtwo wins because WT affects him minimally and he has 2 kill throws to abuse Bayonetta with." AND THEN "It's even because Mewtwo is a freaking combo meal by Bayonetta." When in reality Bayonetta loses that solidly. I even heard some people say Marth and Lucina win because lmao swords, while they clearly ignore tail disjoints and shadow ball camps.

I get that Mewtwo was only relevant for 6 months now, but come on now. What does he lose?

He for sure has trouble in the Diddy kong MU. Top player results point in this direction as well as theory. (Record is like, 9-0 or something) Other then that, A lot of top level Clouds say M2 beats them, and a lot of M2's thing Cloud beats him. So go figure.

Other then that, it is really up in the air. There is not a lot of "M2 definitely losses to X character". M2 has a lot of advantageous and even MUs, with some disadvantageous ones.

 

[MERPIS]

He for sure has trouble in the Diddy kong MU. Top player results point in this direction as well as theory. (Record is like, 9-0 or something) Other then that, A lot of top level Clouds say M2 beats them, and a lot of M2's thing Cloud beats him. So go figure.

Other then that, it is really up in the air. There is not a lot of "M2 definitely losses to X character". M2 has a lot of advantageous and even MUs, with some disadvantageous ones.

The only MU's I can safely say are bad, are Diddy and Meta knight. Corrin is steamrolled, cloud is gimp city with nair, DK is combo and camp food, Bayo is screwed in, well, everything. Ryu is decimated by gimps + camps and mobility. I just flattened all of Mewtwo's theoretical MU's.

 

[Sonicninja115]

The only MU's I can safely say are bad, are Diddy and Meta knight. Corrin is steamrolled, cloud is gimp city with nair, DK is combo and camp food, Bayo is screwed in, well, everything. Ryu is decimated by gimps + camps and mobility. I just flattened all of Mewtwo's theoretical MU's.

You are falling into the same traps they are though. Your opinions are valid, but they are also 1-dimensional. While Cloud can be gimped by Nair, you have to get him offstage first. And then considering Clouds sizable and quick hitboxes, this is rather hard for M2 to do. There are a hundred more points to consider in this MU.

Here is an example I saw yesterday. These people were claiming Kirby beat's M2 because M2 has a hard time grabbing him. This is laughable. There argument relies on Kirby continuously crouching. Also, because of Kirby's size, FF Nair will always pop him straight up into Usmash. A true kill combo at 75% is rather nice. Especially one that is relatively safe on shield. BUT, I am still nitpicking. When discussing a MU, there are hundreds of variables that go into it. The best you can do is talk about states (Off-stage, disadvantage, neutral as well as frame data in these areas, etc.) and MU specific things. States are invariably better at accurately showing a MU then MU specific things. This is why MU's are such a hot topic. There are a billion ways to interpret a single MU. My advice is to simply discuss counters for any MU specific thing, and if you are going to argue, argue about edge-guarding tactics and neutral state.

 

[MERPIS]

You are falling into the same traps they are though. Your opinions are valid, but they are also 1-dimensional. While Cloud can be gimped by Nair, you have to get him offstage first. And then considering Clouds sizable and quick hitboxes, this is rather hard for M2 to do. There are a hundred more points to consider in this MU.

Here is an example I saw yesterday. These people were claiming Kirby beat's M2 because M2 has a hard time grabbing him. This is laughable. There argument relies on Kirby continuously crouching. Also, because of Kirby's size, FF Nair will always pop him straight up into Usmash. A true kill combo at 75% is rather nice. Especially one that is relatively safe on shield. BUT, I am still nitpicking. When discussing a MU, there are hundreds of variables that go into it. The best you can do is talk about states (Off-stage, disadvantage, neutral as well as frame data in these areas, etc.) and MU specific things. States are invariably better at accurately showing a MU then MU specific things. This is why MU's are such a hot topic. There are a billion ways to interpret a single MU. My advice is to simply discuss counters for any MU specific thing, and if you are going to argue, argue about edge-guarding tactics and neutral state.

Aight then, I'll try to make a better argument against Nimbus. While he may have amazing hitboxes, speed, and a decent combo game. Mewtwo is safer against most shield grabs, we can safely grab him out of a FF uair or nair at kill percents, and proceed to send his anime lookin-ass to the moon. Not to mention we have better frame data, while cloud's nair and jab outspeed everything we have aside from fair, bair and dtilt cut through both of those, plus most of mewtwos combos drag the opponent offstage, where cloud is screwed. Cloud cant charge limit too safely because we have shadow ball, and with our airspeed he cant reliably juggle us either, and if mewtwo is behind by 30% or so, one dtilt combo fixes that right up, and one little funny thing to point out is, utilt goes right through dair and either trades, or beats it out entirely. Cloud can screw us over at an early 70, but its no different than what we can do to him if we get the lead. Imo its either 50:50 or 55:45 Mewtwo favor.

 

[Sonicninja115]

Aight then, I'll try to make a better argument against Nimbus. While he may have amazing hitboxes, speed, and a decent combo game. Mewtwo is safer against most shield grabs, we can safely grab him out of a FF uair or nair at kill percents, and proceed to send his anime lookin-*** to the moon. Not to mention we have better frame data, while cloud's nair and jab outspeed everything we have aside from fair, bair and dtilt cut through both of those, plus most of mewtwos combos drag the opponent offstage, where cloud is screwed. Cloud cant charge limit too safely because we have shadow ball, and with our airspeed he cant reliably juggle us either, and if mewtwo is behind by 30% or so, one dtilt combo fixes that right up, and one little funny thing to point out is, utilt goes right through dair and either trades, or beats it out entirely. Cloud can screw us over at an early 70, but its no different than what we can do to him if we get the lead. Imo its either 50:50 or 55:45 Mewtwo favor.

Cloud can't really be shield grabbed unless he misspaces it. Autocancels are a beautiful thing. Bair is far too slow against cloud, plus, a portion of M2's tail is actually a hurtbox, which is inoptimal. Also, Dtilt, sadly, barely outspaces his jab. Cloud has long legs and he leans backwards, Clouds DA just plain beats M2's Dtilt. The best things M2 has vs cloud is his combo game. M2 can rather easily fair string him off-stage with only a few small reads. Then, M2 has quite a few options to ledge guard him as long as he doesn't have limit and you read it correctly.

Cloud can really string aerials vs. M2 though. Uairs are killer and Nair is extremely good vs M2. Then, you add on that M2 dies super early, and Cloud has, arguably, the best kill move in the game. M2 has a horrible ledge game, he has options, but he has very few mediocre options. They are rather slow and he has meh invincibility. Cloud is great at punishing ledge options.

When it comes down to it (I have discussed this MU a lot with M2's and Clouds alike.) M2 wins off-stage, while Cloud wins on-stage. Off-stage is definitely bad for cloud, while on-stage is bad for M2. Cloud simply has too many good options to box M2 out. While M2 stands a chance, this isn't a fun MU. Cloud players say M2 wins generally, and M2 players say Cloud wins generally. I am of the opinion that this is an even MU with "volatile" stamped on it.

 

[Vurky]

Where can I find the link to mewtwo discord? The old link from another thread was expired.

 

[Sonicninja115]

Where can I find the link to mewtwo discord? The old link from another thread was expired.

Please go to a site called "Smashcord" for links to all the mainstream discords.

 

[Bumpkin]

I was just wondering what are some of the best characters to pickup in order to cover some of Mewtwo's bad matchups (IE Cloud, Ryu, Diddy, and Bayo). Thank you in advance.

 

[Sonicninja115]

Well, pick a top tier. Other then that, Marth, Megaman and of course, Diddy, Cloud or Rosalina. Quite a few M2 mains are going for Megaman as he has a good MU vs. Diddy and Cloud, and Marth is pretty good against Diddy and very good besides that. Otherwise, another top tier character could cover those MU's. Bumpkin

 

[LordShade67]

"BUT MEWTWOS ALREADY TOP TIER!!11".

But on a serious note, to follow up on Sonicninja115 post, keep in mind that Mega Man, too, requires a good bit of time investment to be successful with. Marth doing well vs. Diddy I'm unsure of, but then again, people also say Luigi's a good CP, so....*shrugs*

 

[Sonicninja115]

"BUT MEWTWOS ALREADY TOP TIER!!11".

But on a serious note, to follow up on Sonicninja115 post, keep in mind that Mega Man, too, requires a good bit of time investment to be successful with. Marth doing well vs. Diddy I'm unsure of, but then again, people also say Luigi's a good CP, so....*shrugs*

Yeah, more like pick up another top tier or a top 5. I was also meaning that Marth doesn't necessarily have a bad MU vs. Diddy. I don't know the specifics enough, but results have been in Marths favor and the theory checks out.

 

[MERPIS]

Thanks to MSC, we know that disable goes through moves, but what are some notable moves that it beats out? Also, what about shadow ball too? What does that insane projectile beat out?

Askin so I can know when I can throw out disable.

 

[Sonicninja115]

Thanks to MSC, we know that disable goes through moves, but what are some notable moves that it beats out? Also, what about shadow ball too? What does that insane projectile beat out?

Askin so I can know when I can throw out disable.

Disable is a projectile. Because of that, it often either trades, or hits them first. It doesn't clash as far as I know.

As for SB, it is "transcendent"? so it goes through other projectiles and such. However, I do know that M2 can Fair mini SB and break it, so there are moves out there that can break mini sb, but probably not FC SB.

 

[Eight_SixtyFour]

If a move is strong enough (in terms of damage), it should beat out FC SB. I don't think there are a lot of moves that do high damage and are also fairly safe in neutral so it's not too much of a problem. If all versions of SB were transcendent, they would not lose to anything but reflectors and shielding. Mini SB can be nullified by a lot of normals, which is why it isn't used as much anymore.

https://smashboards.com/threads/the-smash-dictionary.374538/ - Transcendent Priority

 

[EarthBound18]

I'm trying to practice this but I have a few questions, Does this work with tap jump or do I have to use y and x? I am use to using the analog stick to jump.

 

[LordShade67]

It can, I imagine. But jump buttons make it easier.

 

[Sonicninja115]

I'm trying to practice this but I have a few questions, Does this work with tap jump or do I have to use y and x? I am use to using the analog stick to jump.

That combo requires extremely precise inputs. To the extent that My Smash Corner says to put a shoulder button to special as moving your thumb from X/Y to B is too slow. My suggestion is to play around with your controls, and find out what works best for you, but keep in mind that some tech does require weird control set-ups.

 

[EarthBound18]

That combo requires extremely precise inputs. To the extent that My Smash Corner says to put a shoulder button to special as moving your thumb from X/Y to B is too slow. My suggestion is to play around with your controls, and find out what works best for you, but keep in mind that some tech does require weird control set-ups.

Uh, so I'll have to switch my controls around to do it right? I am too use to the standard controls,