Metaknight's Tornado

[yoshq]

Jband and I are seriously discussing the mk matchup although I'm not gonna worry about trying to get the boards to discuss it too. What I need from you guys is a discussion of the specific ways our moves can hit metaknight out of his tornado, during or slightly after he does it.
also,

Mk nado has low priority at the ground but gains more priority as it rises, so most stuff can clank or beat the nado.

Note: just about any move will be able to hit mk on the top of his head while in the nado
Also, restating the above, the nado is very weak while coming across the ground and strong while in the air, but if in the air refer to the upsmash.

So far I've gotten rare and mostly unreplicated instances of the following outprioritizing the nado:

1. Upsmash
Application: backwards upsmash, where the head is coming up. only works when the nado is off the ground.
Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4Tytp4wv88&fmt=18

2. Luiginado
Application: Coming down on the top of it, first few hits which have more priority
Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I26SNXdP7-4&fmt=18
MKnado hitbubbles, Luiginado hitboxes

3. Nair
Application: Starting right when the foot connects with the top of metaknight's head?
Video:
Jband talks about this

4. Bair
Application: On the top of his head?
Video:


5. Pivot grab
Application: On starting frames of grounded tornado
Video:

6. Uair
Application: While being hit by the tornado?
Video:

7. Dair
Application: On the top of it
Video:

8. Fireball
Application: Stops the nado but does not punish. Only works on grounded nado.
Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHUcZjsZ6WY&fmt=18

9. Fair
Application: On the top of his head, but still in front of the nado a bit.
Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R25luLqHeHc&fmt=18

10. Shield
Application: Powershield preferrably, then block, release, punish
Application 2: Shield all the hits, then release and tornado across the ground towards them.
video:

11. Footstool
Application: Jump off his head after DIing to the middle of the nado.
video:

IF people have vids of them outprioritizing the nado, that would be extremely helpful. Please note that I am able to record replays if need be.

 

[jbandrew]

Fireball hits disrupts nado if it hits the top part, and MK's usually do something dumb like Side-B... which is useful. Fireballs may also clank with it sometimes. Uhh N-air disrupts nado if you hit the center but thats already stated. Hmmm yea anything would really help guys.

 

[hippiedude92]

u can do a pivot grab on the starting frames of a grounded nado (rly good if u predict it and if ppl like to approach with grounded nado )

 

[ScAtt77]

After being caught in his tornado, I've actually managed to punish him with u-air a couple of times. I can't seem to do it consistently, but I think that it depends on the amount of times Mk presses b.

 

[yoshq]

Thanks guys, I plan on extensively testing this next time I go to my friend's house as well.

 

[BSP]

I'll try different attacks when I get caught in it and try to help.

 

[jbandrew]

Someone try to find a way to Airdodge out of nado as soon as you get caught in or something, that would be amazingly helpful. Matchup changing even.

 

[TheMann]

Yup and Dair should work from the top also.

 

[hippiedude92]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=263261

falco boards are discussing that too, from the info i gathered before (might be wrong), you can actually upsmash the tornado, if it's spaced correctly. but it could be wrong since falcos upsmash and luigis upsmash are two different moves.

A2zomg thinks Luigi's upsmash has inv frames, (it was there too in melee)

also im subscribing this thread to see how this turns out, nj is too mk infested lol

convo will be up abit later

 

[jbandrew]

Speaking of Metaknight, I have a video vs a MK that I need to upload... just so the Luigi boards don't lose hope in the matchup.

 

[yoshq]

Speaking of Metaknight, I have a video vs a MK that I need to upload... just so the Luigi boards don't lose hope in the matchup.

send it to me and I can put it up here

 

[Gadiel_VaStar]

Bair/Nair should be able to out-prioritize nado on top. This works for a lot of characters btw.

 

[ADHD]

Just stare at it and await the inevetable doom.

 

[BSP]

Is smash DI useless against it too?

 

[Famous]

Bair/Nair should be able to out-prioritize nado on top. This works for a lot of characters btw.

Anything out-prioritizes nado from the top...


The only thing I've done thats stops MK during nado is F-Smash angled up...Everything else yoshq mentioned works well...I wouldn't advise pivot grabbing nado unless your in the middle of a **** combo and mk randomly counters with nado at close range...

 

[TheMann]

Wait what? omgwtf at the fireball vid lol

 

[TreK]

Metanado hitboxes

Aerial Luigi cyclone's linking hits hitboxes

I should have known ._.

 

[hippiedude92]

luigi tornado looks like mickey's head o.O

 

[LuigiKing]

I know for a fact that I've Fsmashed MKs nado. I've also naired and daired it from the top. Other than that I don't have a whole lot to contribute =/

 

[Chaosgriffin]

Is smash DI useless against it too?

You can DI up out of it, sometimes. I read somewhere on the boards that mashing buttons to get out of nado, but I am not sure if that works.

I metioned it before but I will state it here again

The nado has more priority in the air then compared to a grounded one, so if MK is coming down with nado just block it and angle your shield.

I believe that a powershield cancels out the hitboxes of the nado for a short amount of time, but I am not completely sure.

 

[Mew2King]

I am not 100% sure but I think you can block it, release block, and then down B and punish it. Not 100% sure if it always works

 

[yoshq]

http://img27.xooimage.com/files/9/5/3/nouvelle-image-bitmap-18cdf9f.png
Metanado hitboxes
http://i885.photobucket.com/albums/...tboxes/CycloneAerialFinalHit.jpg?t=1263280913
Aerial Luigi cyclone's linking hits hitboxes

I should have known ._.

Thanks, I'm putting those in the op.

I am not 100% sure but I think you can block it, release block, and then down B and punish it. Not 100% sure if it always works

That sounds plausible, but the luiginado doesn't come out as fast as a lot of his other moves. Wouldn't he be better off with a jab, upb, or dsmash?

 

[LuigiKing]

I think what M2K means is simply hold your shield through the entire duration of the tornado then immediately punish it with luigi's nado as soon as Meta starts to come out of it. I actually do this all the time, and it works pretty well. You just have to be really quick.

 

[luke_atyeo]

from those pictures it looks like the cyclone should beat the tornado, if only we could see hurt boxes too.

 

[Chaosgriffin]

Well the picture above is only for the cyclone in the air, the one on the ground has different hitboxes.

 

[mib004]

yeah you can punish mk as soon as his nado is over with cyclone, I do this all the time.

 

[FuZz%]

you can also foot stool mk nado

 

[melrak90]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=caqFtq64VT4
^ lol what not to do during the match-up (around 3:51 is when spam starts lol) yeah I didn't know the match-up or how to counter mk's nado when I played, so my luigi pretty much got owned. Wish this thread was up sooner lol

 

[TheMike]

Hey yoshq, I can record the videos missing whether you still want them. Nice thread, btw. :D

 

[yoshq]

I can record too, and thanks

 

[Magus420]

Aerial Luigi cyclone's linking hits hitboxes

This is messed up btw. The size of the side ones are 6 and the middle one is supposed to be smaller and is 4.5, not 97476SNAKETILT35987 or whatever the person who made it used by mistake xD

 

[Chaosgriffin]

This is messed up btw. The size of the side ones are 6 and the middle one is supposed to be smaller and is 4.5, not 97476SNAKETILT35987 or whatever the person who made it used by mistake xD

Yeah, that was me I know it is wrong. I am not sure on how to fix scaling errors. If you could PM me and tell how to do it that would be great. So I could fix Luigi with all of his crazy bone enlargement.