Sudai
Stuff here
For a while. It was eventually unbanned.
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MetaKnight Infinite Dimensional Cape - hope you enjoy
- Thread starter shadowlink3
- Start date
- Status
Gabz
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Jul 3, 2008
- Messages
- 95
eventually MK will fall and if i stop moving the stick the animation stops but f i dotn MK falls what then?..... also i think we need to see the resutls of this in battles and the amount of people using it and hhow much that abuses of it then it should be or not considered admited in tournamens for example
metaXzero
Smash Champion
^ I ******* hate bad grammar and spelling!
shadowlink3
Smash Journeyman
Lol at meta xero.
its ok everyone does.lol
Inuashakent
Smash Apprentice
Too broken.
shadowlink3
Smash Journeyman
So........... Many........... Post. lolool
shadowlink3
Smash Journeyman
I haven't used this in a tourney match yet, proble will never cause i don't need it, most don't haha. But its mostly being determined now.
Quez256
Smash Journeyman
QFT
This is partially why banning the move will really not affect the majority of MK users on a professional level, but banning it will at least keep the scrubs from abusing the tech in smaller tourneys.
shadowlink3
Smash Journeyman
but ofcorse. haha
jupiter
Smash Apprentice
wow, that's insane.
MetaKnight does NOT need this to get out of *any* "sticky situation". He's METAKNIGHT. He can B (tornado) away, UP B (shuttle loop), downdodge/spotdodge Down Smash, mash A, make pancakes, and serve me some tea, all while not being scratched at all.
It's sad, actually. That's what happens when you have really *really* bad beta testers...
MetaKnight does NOT need this to get out of *any* "sticky situation". He's METAKNIGHT. He can B (tornado) away, UP B (shuttle loop), downdodge/spotdodge Down Smash, mash A, make pancakes, and serve me some tea, all while not being scratched at all.
It's sad, actually. That's what happens when you have really *really* bad beta testers...
adumbrodeus
Smash Legend
Actually... I think that this shows that the MK users are really resting on their laurels.
Where's the play to win mentality?
Quez256
Smash Journeyman
It seems the only way to acquire the answer is to observe it's use in tourneys, like you said yourself. If it truly advances his metagame to an extent to make him severely better than he already is, it'll be banned anyway, all we need to do it wait it out.
I have the mentality, but I didn't main MK for that reason, and I usually won't drop to the level of abusing a ridiculously cheap tactic to win a fight. It's not a life-or-death situation in a tourney y'know. ^_^
mattk210
Smash Cadet
I think this stuff should be banned AFTER we have some tourney results that prove it's gamebreaking. I don't think any tournaments will be won with this, and if they are then we should start taking countermeasures. Say what you like about mastery of techniques, nobody is going to be able to keep this up for the whole match each match of a tournament.
Gah! This will be the 29,000th time I, adumbrodeus or a lot of other people will have had to say this:
We need extensive testing before this is banned
This entails testing from the SBR and testing from tournaments (i.e. tournament results).
We need extensive testing before this is banned
This entails testing from the SBR and testing from tournaments (i.e. tournament results).
Dark Nemesis
Smash Apprentice
This thread makes me laugh.
Broken? To early to tell. This technique DOES indeed have potential, but we don't know how gamebreaking it really is.
I think this case should be left for the SBR to discuss. I don't think this technique will be a threat to anyone until someone learns who to take advantage of it.
And until then, please stop calling it "broken".
Broken? To early to tell. This technique DOES indeed have potential, but we don't know how gamebreaking it really is.
I think this case should be left for the SBR to discuss. I don't think this technique will be a threat to anyone until someone learns who to take advantage of it.
And until then, please stop calling it "broken".
adumbrodeus
Smash Legend
But, the fact that people aren't trying it in spite of the theoretical applications, well it's a bit disturbing.
Then you don't have that mentality...
I can use this tech rather proficiently and I'm an all-around decent MK... I need to get to some tournies.
Quez256
Smash Journeyman
If nobody's applying the tech to it's theoretical limits, then there shouldn't be a problem. About the mentality, yeah, I guess I need to work on that a bit.
Newuser12345215
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Jan 21, 2008
- Messages
- 253
How exactly do you do this? Press Down + "B", to do Dimension cape(while standing on the ground) right?
Then(immediately after the animation starts), hold "Down" on the "Control/movement stick" and tap "Up" on the C sticK(set to smash) repetitively.
I can't seem to do this, I tried it on 1/4th speed in training too. I tried using my thumb and tapping it up, and then tried tapping it up by using the palm of my hand, can't seem to do it or make it last longer than normal.
Then(immediately after the animation starts), hold "Down" on the "Control/movement stick" and tap "Up" on the C sticK(set to smash) repetitively.
I can't seem to do this, I tried it on 1/4th speed in training too. I tried using my thumb and tapping it up, and then tried tapping it up by using the palm of my hand, can't seem to do it or make it last longer than normal.
GodheadsLamentX
Smash Apprentice
Banning this is a laugh, no one thought to ban the SWD in melee despite its difficulty to perform consistently and practically - being able to do it doesn't provide much of an advantage in high level play, at least thats what experience has taught me.
Brawl matches take long enough, who is going to put in that much effort to "stall" a match? At least not using this technique..
I feel this can only be really used situationally.. and sparingly. Spammers of this possibly underdeveloped technique won't necessarily be winning any (even local) tournies. Now if it turns into something as easy and broken as Wobbling then this will be banned, which hasn't happened as far as I've seen.
I wait to see the effectiveness of this tech in posted matches, maybe I'll stand corrected after this, or not.
Brawl matches take long enough, who is going to put in that much effort to "stall" a match? At least not using this technique..
I feel this can only be really used situationally.. and sparingly. Spammers of this possibly underdeveloped technique won't necessarily be winning any (even local) tournies. Now if it turns into something as easy and broken as Wobbling then this will be banned, which hasn't happened as far as I've seen.
I wait to see the effectiveness of this tech in posted matches, maybe I'll stand corrected after this, or not.
GodheadsLamentX
Smash Apprentice
Without 5 mins of practice who wouldn't be able to do that?
I'd like to see it utilized in a match. Videos anyone?
meta master
Smash Journeyman
wait. what are we calling it now? (im not reading 70+pages) ******* or somethign else. i know "victory is my destiny" calls it cloaking. i actually like cloaking but you guys tell me
<http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=181827> <-- victory is my destiny
<http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=181827> <-- victory is my destiny
You fail to see the several issues at hand. First of all, SWD didn't make you incorporeal. It just made you go really fast. Anyone can tell you intangibility is better than speed.
The second issue you fail to grasp is that while this move is situational, it is absolutely and without a doubt the best move in those situations where it is useful. It is so good, that Metaknight can seek to induce those situations, and abuse the move to a deadly extent.
Over on AiB, I analyzed a match where this move was used. Apologies to Dojo and Santi, if they don't approve to be made examples of, then I'll remove the following text, both from this post and the one on AiB.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wxAsoU2kSc
I'll now analyze each instance of Dojo's use of this move. By the way, if anyone has an issue with my analysis, feel free to present their own.
0:49 - Dojo initiates the infinite to cross-up Santi while the latter retreats. Detecting the flanking maneuver, Santi stops, and Dojo decloaks just out of range of Santi's coming bair. Dojo spotdodges to be sure. He probably could have managed to ftilt Santi afterwards, but he chooses to pressure from a safe distance. In this manner, he pushes Santi all the way to the right edge, then knocks him off. Dojo botches the edgeguard. Aside from the edgeguard, this is a nearly flawless use of the move to create and capitalize upon a massive upper hand.
3:25 - Santi has just respawned, giving him invincibility frames, which he uses to draw a bomb. In order to keep Santi from abusing his invincibility to gain a positional advantage, Dojo cloaks. (For the record, I consider this to be one of the most broken aspects of this move, as it completely bypasses the post-KO balance that allows most characters to capitalize on being KO'd. Instead, the respawned player is immediately put on the defensive, trying to find a defensible position against the Metaknight for when invincibility wears off.) Santi attempts to punish him by throwing a bomb at the place he thinks Dojo will come back, but Dojo holds the cloak a tad longer, and comes out unscathed. Santi's bomb deters him from continuing the pressure, and the positional balance is reset to zero, which puts Santi at a slight advantage, due to spam. However that advantage is practically insignificant, considering that a character who can become incorporeal pooh-poohs at projectiles.
3:29 - Whaddaya know? Dojo uses the cape once again to cross-up Santi, bypassing Santi's arrows, and forcing Santi to go for another bair. Dojo blocks the first bair, but gets too close while trying to pressure on the second and get's a nick for his trouble. Santi loses his momentary advantage by flubbing an arrow.
3:37 - Dojo once again bypasses Santi's projectile spam, faking out Santi, who attempts to punish with an arrow. Dojo pulls out and grabs Santi for his trouble. Santi counters with a brilliant zair-canceled airdodge, negating Dojo's advantage.
In light of the above analysis, I don't think Dojo ever lost his advantage directly as a result of using this tactic, but rather due to incorrectly following up, or because of brilliant moves on Santi's part. I also humbly submit that Santi played too proactively in attempting to punish the Cape.
metaXzero
Smash Champion
Finally! A video!
Unfortunately, it shows D.I.C.K. as just another instrument in MK's arsenal instead of an utterly broken technique. Nothing to really to support banning here IMO.
But its nice to have an actual match with D.I.C.K. in use.
Shadowlink. Put the video in the OP PLZ. Its all we have for evaluation.
Unfortunately, it shows D.I.C.K. as just another instrument in MK's arsenal instead of an utterly broken technique. Nothing to really to support banning here IMO.
But its nice to have an actual match with D.I.C.K. in use.
Shadowlink. Put the video in the OP PLZ. Its all we have for evaluation.
adumbrodeus
Smash Legend
A cool demo... but it doesn't touch on either of the two ban topics here, infinite stall and the godly approach.
No attempt to stall out the match, and no attempt to force a guessing game.
Unfortunately, as far as the "ban-worthy or not" debate goes, this gets filed under "irrelevant".
I think it shows that some metaknight players are going to use it as an accessory and not base their whole game around it. Also, that ******* instance didn't heavily influence the match.
I agree that this just scratches the surface of the matter, but I think this is more realistic to how the tactic may be used.
I agree that this just scratches the surface of the matter, but I think this is more realistic to how the tactic may be used.
metaXzero
Smash Champion
Well those people are idiots and shouldn't even be considered (lol). As the intelligent posters here have said, this shouldn't be banned until it is proven broken in a tournament.
I think people should note that that video is a friendly, and Dojo himself said somewhere else that he doesn't like to use the Cape that much. However, every time he used it, Santi found himself part of a heavily weighted game of Blackjack, and Dojo was the house.
You all have to remember that I, personally have never argued that this will dominate MK's game. I've only argued that it will make MK dominate the game overall, and the two primary reasons I think so are shown in the video I linked: an approach which completely negates and shuts down brickwall defenses that many characters use to control the match, and an unpunishable way to bypass the respawn invincibility.
This move on its own isn't entirely broken. However, MK with this in his arsenal is looking more and more broken to me. We still haven't seen it in a tourney, up against Snakes and the like, but based on that video, I don't predict I'm going to like what I see when that happens.
In fact, it does show the godly approach. The first use of this attack, as I describe, shuts down Santi's projectile spam (his best bet against MK), and puts Dojo in control until he messes up the edgeguard.
You all have to remember that I, personally have never argued that this will dominate MK's game. I've only argued that it will make MK dominate the game overall, and the two primary reasons I think so are shown in the video I linked: an approach which completely negates and shuts down brickwall defenses that many characters use to control the match, and an unpunishable way to bypass the respawn invincibility.
This move on its own isn't entirely broken. However, MK with this in his arsenal is looking more and more broken to me. We still haven't seen it in a tourney, up against Snakes and the like, but based on that video, I don't predict I'm going to like what I see when that happens.
shadowlink3
Smash Journeyman
i cant cause its not called d.i.c.k
metaXzero
Smash Champion
-__________-
.....Then put it as what you please (I stand by D.I.C.K.)
.....Then put it as what you please (I stand by D.I.C.K.)
Just because this one player didn't use it enough... when he did use it, it showcased some of the things we've been saying all along.
Why wouldn't it see heavy use for Meta? It's really good, as that video shows.
Jack Kieser
Smash Champion
But, is it unpunishable? No, obviously. Santi did some brilliant prediction that decreased Dojo's ability to approach with the move. I think the biggest flaw with D.I.C.K. is that the camera continues to follow MK while he's cloaked, and once people learn camera mechanics, you'll never be able to lose MK even if you can't see him. Sure, the invuln is still a problem, but I think that video demonstrates very clearly how, if not abused, D.I.C.K. is not the end-all-be-all move, and certainly won't give enough of an advantage to shut out every other character. Of course, we should get more test data. One video is NOT enough to make a final call... but I think that (again, if not abused) D.I.C.K. is a very valid move for MK.
S_B
Too Drunk to Smash
Why not call it "Shifting" as MK is shifting out of this dimension and into another? It'd be more convenient in conversation (unless we really want to use D.I.C.K. in regular discussion...).
As for the tech itself, it heavily depends upon where MK shifted and, as such, where he'll reappear, so long as the player can't continue to move around while shifted, it shouldn't be a major problem, just very, very irritating because you're dealing with a player who won't resume the game until they want to do so (or their arm falls off from mashing the C-stick).
As for the tech itself, it heavily depends upon where MK shifted and, as such, where he'll reappear, so long as the player can't continue to move around while shifted, it shouldn't be a major problem, just very, very irritating because you're dealing with a player who won't resume the game until they want to do so (or their arm falls off from mashing the C-stick).
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