MetaKnight Infinite Dimensional Cape - hope you enjoy

[ph00tbag]

And just because you've hit me, doesn't mean you've harmed me.

And I'm obviously going to try to hit you every time.

 

[Corigames]

And I'm obviously going to try to harm you everytime. :D

 

[adumbrodeus]

Ph00t, I think you are forgetting that I said everything you said. I know MK is good. I know this tech is good. However, is this tech broken enough to ban? No s my answer. If this were on Ganon, we would allow it. It's not the technique we don't like, it's that MK has it. Him having this will just a another annoying thing that he can do, but it is beatable (in my opinion).

The technique isn't what is broken, it's MK.

You're definitely correct to a degree, this technique would not be half as broken as it is without MK's INSANE aerial and anti-ledge game.

That said, if another char had those attributes, but sucked otherwise, this technique would be ban-worthy on them as well.

Because it's not just the attributes of the technique itself that decides if something is banworthy, it's the technique paired with the character, a technique that was good but just couldn't be utilized well with one character could be incredible with others (take dragonic reverse for example). If the character, given the technique is powerful enough, that we're left with the inevitable conclusion that this is the only character that will be able to compete in tournaments, we have to either ban the character or the technique, which would you prefer?

And I promise you, this technique DOES push MK to that level, heck MK accomplishes about what Old Sagat did anyway, so he's on the absolute cusp of ban-worthy. This takes what he has and pushes him to Akuma level.

I can do this consistently. Thanks to my 3rd party controller. And it is not broken at all. I played online against people and whenever I do this to someone, they either run to the edge and edge hog or jump on a platform to escape it.

EXACTLY! the only thing you can do to counter this move is put yourself into a slightly less horrible position. If you can't take advantage of your opponent being above you, either you're not DIing with the move enough when you come out to strike (again, can hit almost as high as the top platform of battlefield) or you suck.

If you can't take advantage of them being on the ledge, you suck.

Both are HORRIBLE positions against MK.

And just because you've hit me, doesn't mean you've harmed me.

Not true, but you might be harmed more in exchange, even 1% helps with an eventual KO.

I'll agree with this if we find that there is absolutely nothing you could ever do to stop this move from hitting you.

I'm sorry corey, but being forced into the ledge/being above MK position at will is only slightly less dangerous then a perfect hit ratio.

We'll still be looking at MK being the only tournament viable character.

 

[Smasher89]

Seems too good to avoid those final smashes XD

 

[Machiavelli.CF]

now presenting....the....
"ETERNITY CAPE"
lol...just had to say that!

 

[Corigames]

We'll still be looking at MK being the only tournament viable character.

I'm glad you have no hope. When I show all of you how to get around this, or when someone else does, I hope you love the ****ing taste of your toes. You are going to have your foot in your mouth for months.

 

[adumbrodeus]

I'm glad you have no hope. When I show all of you how to get around this, or when someone else does, I hope you love the ****ing taste of your toes. You are going to have your foot in your mouth for months.

Don't quote me out of context, that sentence was dependent on the prior paragraph.

Let me summarize what I said, "if the only defenses against this is taking a ledge or taking a platform that's high enough, then MK will be the only tournament viable character".


Context is everything.

 

[Corigames]

I'm done with this thread.

No one is accepting even the possibility that this move could be stopped. It makes an up hill battle into making a nuclear missile out of bamboo.

 

[Smasher89]

Anyone tested this against attacks like ICs blizzard, or even their final smash(or any of them?)

 

[Yuna]

I'm done with this thread.

No one is accepting even the possibility that this move could be stopped. It makes an up hill battle into making a nuclear missile out of bamboo.

We're accepting. We'll believe it when we see it.

We're not seeing anything yet, so we say "Judging by the evidence currently known to us, we think this will be banned (after extensive testing)".

 

[adumbrodeus]

I'm done with this thread.

No one is accepting even the possibility that this move could be stopped. It makes an up hill battle into making a nuclear missile out of bamboo.

Sure, we're accepting the possibility that it can be stopped, but let's look at it's attributes on paper, it is enormously powerful, and when paired with MK's anti-ledge and aerial games, it certainly goes well over the "ban-worthy" line.


So, based on the evidence that we have, we've drawn our conclusions, but of course, we withhold final judgment until extensive testing has taken place. If you can show us some sort of counter for this, I'm sure we'll be happy to accept that.

So, as Yuna said, we'll believe it when we see it.

 

[gantrain05]

except that, even if there is a counter for it, the counter would still have to be used by every character or else it still severly limits tourney viable characters, but as it stands, there isn't anything beyond getting up a lucky shield or putting yourself in a stupid position only to not be killed by the cape, but by MK's next attack, so....yeah.

 

[Corigames]

Or maybe you aren't lucky with your shield and you know how to handle yourself >_>

 

[Yuna]

Or maybe you aren't lucky with your shield and you know how to handle yourself >_>

Or you shield can be held for 3+ seconds (some kind of arbitrary time limit for this technique) or you're psychic. That's pretty much it.

 

[adumbrodeus]

except that, even if there is a counter for it, the counter would still have to be used by every character or else it still severly limits tourney viable characters, but as it stands, there isn't anything beyond getting up a lucky shield or putting yourself in a stupid position only to not be killed by the cape, but by MK's next attack, so....yeah.

Well no, only certain characters are infinitely chain-grabbable by DDD, but it's not banned. That just means they are a very bad match-up against DDD.


Of course the number of characters is important in ultimately deciding this, but if it's uncounterable by only a few characters, it will definately maintain legality.

 

[Corigames]

Or you shield can be held for 3+ seconds (some kind of arbitrary time limit for this technique) or you're psychic. That's pretty much it.

Go blow yourself off.

I guess you can't ever, ever, ever shield a move in this game without it being lucky then. Right?

 

[gantrain05]

Go blow yourself off.

I guess you can't ever, ever, ever shield a move in this game without it being lucky then. Right?

i don't think you are seeing the same technique as the rest of the boards, ok, say u shield, but what if MK decides to just follow u around, and just stays right on ur *** till ur open? nothing u can do, at least with characters who are VISIBLE, u know when they are going to attack, u can see thier moves being telegraphed, and u can hit them back.

 

[Corigames]

OTHER CHARACTERS HAD MOVES THAT CAME OUT INSTANTANEOUSLY AND WE COULD BLOCK THEM, WHY NOT THIS GOD ****C FDHCASPOI:EG Q:OSRH?EDGAFH?lgs

I can block any non-grab move in the game. Unless this goes THROUGH the shield, I can block it. I will block it.

 

[Yuna]

OTHER CHARACTERS HAD MOVES THAT CAME OUT INSTANTANEOUSLY AND WE COULD BLOCK THEM, WHY NOT THIS GOD ****C FDHCASPOI:EG Q:OSRH?EDGAFH?lgs

Because every other move doesn't have your character disappear and stay invincible until you feel like letting the invincibility and invisibility go and do an attack out of it!

You can't just teleport to me from ten Marios away and tilt me. But you can use this and then stand next to me and then I have to guess when you're gonna attack me!

 

[metaXzero]

Yuna. What is that?

 

[Yuna]

Yuna. What is that?

Snake licking Ike's chest and Ike moaning "Ah, Snake-san!" in the throes of ecstasy?

 

[metaXzero]

Oh. For a sec, I couldn't make out Ike's face.

 

[ph00tbag]

Corey, I would be ecstatic to find out that there is a move or technique in the game that can hit Metaknight while he is incorporeal. The thing about this move is, there is no hurtbox, not even an invincible hurtbox. An fun fact is that if you hit someone who is invincible, there is an animation for that, and you suffer hitlag while they don't. If your attack overlaps with the point that the game associates with MK's existence so the camera can follow him, there is no hit animation. You do not suffer hitlag. You finish your move normally.

This is to say that this is more than just invincibility, you are untouchable in this state. I don't mean to say it's impossible to end this state prematurely through your own intervention. I just want to impress upon you the obscurity of the qualities you are looking for. You want to find a move that can end MK's dimensional cape without having to in any way connect with MK's body. I have some ideas, but I'm pretty sure every move in the game requires a hurtbox to interact with in order to connect.

 

[feardragon64]

There has to be something I'm missing here that's causing 77 pages of debate. Why can't we put a time limit on how long this can be done? Like, the exact time it takes for one's shield to drop down completely from full. That seems like a pretty fair amount of time to me. It gives MK enough time to utilize this AT for meta-game purposes, and prevents him from stalling because of the time limit. Additionally, if the defender wants, they could hold shield down for 3/4 of the time and then jump since the technique can't follow in the air(I think, correct me if I'm wrong on that). After that, MK has to reveal himself. It's pretty obvious at that point if someone is breaking the rules. At the same time, it shouldn't make a huge difference if someone goes over by a little(a few seconds), since it wouldn't be sufficient for one to truly accomplish their goal for a stall(one or two extra seconds?). And hey, if MK decides to break early, the defender has the option of shield grabbing directly after the attack since his shield won't break down by the end of the time limit.

That only leaves one problem. Repeated use of this with the whatever three seconds that it takes for a shield to wear down completely. But honestly yuna, I know that the whole arbitrary judge thing is a problem, but it's obvious if the MK is CONSTANTLY doing it over and over again. Any sane judge will be able to tell. I hate to sound like everyone else on that though, and I don't want you to think I haven't read most of your posts on this(I say most because I haven't read 77 pages since I do have a life outside of this), so I don't expect you to answer that AGAIN. But at least realize that even though we not have a BLATANT answer to the problem, there's no sense in shutting down attempts to solve the problem without gimping MK of possible meta-game development.

I'm still deciding for myself if this move deserves to be banned in my opinion. I'm happy to see either side of it so direct responses would be appreciated...preferably without being condescending. -.-

 

[En.Ee.Oh]

ghosting is more relevant to what metaknight is actually doing (moving around unable to be seen or touched, yet still present) and easier to understand. it's also much more appropriate. as fun as it is to say, i think everyone should agree on calling this ghosting

 

[gantrain05]

ghosting is more relevant to what metaknight is actually doing (moving around unable to be seen or touched, yet still present) and easier to understand. it's also much more appropriate. as fun as it is to say, i think everyone should agree on calling this ghosting

well i don't agree on calling it ghosting, because ghosts can't attack you whenever they feel like it, basically with this tech MK is D.I.C.King around

 

[Tim_The_Enchanter]

MK is a d.ick. That is why D.I.C.K is suck a perfect acronym for the technique.

I believe that MK could possibly be banned in the future, no matter how lomg people kick and scream.

This technique will be banned unless Corey miraculously finds a universal counter to the move.

 

[Newuser12345215]

77 pages, I read the first 6 pages and this page so sorry if this was already answered:

So, to do this you:

1. Hold down on the movement stick and press B. (You don't hold "B" or the special button right?)

Immediately...

2. Tap up on the C stick?

Can you slightly move the C stick left or right(but it's mainly upward), can you also slightly move the movement stick also?

I can't seem to do this, even on 1/4th speed, I stalled for like 1 second longer (a few times but not all the times) but can't seem to do it.

How fast do you tap up? Do you just use your thumb and tilting from up to neutral as fast as possible or do you use the palm of your hand and push it up like an maniac? How do you do it?

Is there an easier way to do this?

This will be really useful in casual 4 FFA games when someone picks Fox, Falco, Wolf, or any other character with a FS like Landmaster.

Also unrelated but on super smash wiki it says:

"Many of these do unusual things, like reflect enemy attacks," suggesting that the Dimensional Cape has such a property, especially from what the trailer showed. This is not true; if you swirl your cape around Meta-Knight when the projectile hits, it will not be reflected.

Has anyone tried testing it with 1(or more) fox(es) spamming laser on metaknight while he uses dimension cape?

 

[Tim_The_Enchanter]

You have to continue to hold the stick down while tapping the C-Stick.

 

[Newuser12345215]

You have to continue to hold the stick down while tapping the C-Stick.

Hold the left stick down? I did hold it, and tapped the right(C-stick) up repetitively? I am doing that.

 

[En.Ee.Oh]

well i don't agree on calling it ghosting, because ghosts can't attack you whenever they feel like it, basically with this tech MK is D.I.C.King around

i hope you're joking


i really hope you're joking


from a logical standpoint both from the actual tech and appropriateness, it should be called ghosting and not d.i.c.king


while he is in the tech his state is similar to that of a ghost. he isn't d.i.c.king around whilse using it, he's using it to gain the advantage against his opponent. that isn't playing around

and if you aren't joking, then you're a f u cking idiot who needs his posting rights revoked



idiot butt milk

 

[metaXzero]

No. D.I.C.K.!

Don't ya know the what it means? And D.I.C.K is more well known then "ghosting" (in this thread) lol.

(Seriously again, just wait for an official name. Their was already a pointless name argument last night).

 

[unit182]

Yay, I was referenced in another post. pointless maybe, useless, I think not

 

[ph00tbag]

Additionally, if the defender wants, they could hold shield down for 3/4 of the time and then jump since the technique can't follow in the air(I think, correct me if I'm wrong on that).

It can, although they could just airdodge. Personally, though, I'd just decloak, since I've already got my opponent in the air, and if they airdodge, woohoo, I can do all manner of nasty things to them.

Ultimately, though, we've been over the reason a time limit is pretty much an unenforceable ban. Read the thread.

 

[unit182]

Yuna, ghosting is mentioned on page 11

 

[Killress]

so i was right about the c stick huh? Very nice, thank you for sharing

OSOPRO

Haha. Gratz.

 

[adumbrodeus]

It can, although they could just airdodge. Personally, though, I'd just decloak, since I've already got my opponent in the air, and if they airdodge, woohoo, I can do all manner of nasty things to them.

Depends on how high, but unless you've got a platform to go (that's as high or higher then the top platform of battlefield), being in the air is is a a second or so out of range (or for some, longer) followed by being right back at square 1.

BTW, in case this wasn't figured out, the majority of your jump is still attackable.

 

[Kayzee]

Where the hell did all the MK mains go?

MK is a d.ick. That is why D.I.C.K is suck a perfect acronym for the technique.

And that's exactly why the technique shouldn't be named D.I.C.K. as stated before, it gives players an excuse to call MK the word instead of the acronym.

 

[unit182]

More logic defending ghosting :o, that means there's a chance for ghosting. Here's more reasoning for ghosting. A ghost is the supposed disembodied spirit manifestation of a dead person, often characterized as a pale shadowy appariton. Ghosting is a present participle used as an adverb. Ghosting describes how metaknight disappears, and is unhittable until he reappears, like a ghost. Metaknight can attack out of this, making him malicious. Some ghosts have intent to hurt or kill like a demon, poltergeist, etc. Argue that.

 

[Corigames]

How about it doesn't matter since it is going to be banned?

Har har har?

Seriously, I think it was fine with IDC. We didn't need funny, witty, or even relevant acronyms attached to it, just IDC (Infinite Dimensional Cape). That's it.