MetaKnight Infinite Dimensional Cape - hope you enjoy

[salaboB]

You are not right here. Stalling = DQ. Stalling can mean everything from rising pounds to flying under the stage over and over.

If this move is used as a stall, the user will recieve a DQ. The move does not become banned. Do we ban Jigglypuffs jump because she can stall under the stage? No.

The point is that all of you just dont want MK (a very good character) to have any more advanced tactics. You are letting your emotions on the subject show, while you cannot provide a quality logical argument without ignoring huge parts of the game such as the fact that stalling is not allowed.

Actually, I believe the point is that you are not listening to a word of explanation on why people think the stalling is the least worrisome part of this move.

 

[adumbrodeus]

You are not right here. Stalling = DQ. Stalling can mean everything from rising pounds to flying under the stage over and over.

*sigh*

No, that is totally and completely wrong.

Safe infinite stalling techniques have been ruled illegal for stalling purposes as they have been discovered, but stalling itself has NEVER been ruled illegal.

Otherwise, not approaching would be illegal.

I said it in the post you quoted, stalling is not banned, safe stalling techniques are banned for stalling as they are discovered. Rising pound was baned as a stall, it did not run afoul of a pre-existing rule.

If this move is used as a stall, the user will recieve a DQ. The move does not become banned. Do we ban Jigglypuffs jump because she can stall under the stage? No.

Not until the tech is ruled as such, as of current the move is totally legal for all purposes, including infinite stalling.

The point is that all of you just dont want MK (a very good character) to have any more advanced tactics. You are letting your emotions on the subject show, while you cannot provide a quality logical argument without ignoring huge parts of the game such as the fact that stalling is not allowed.

...

You might wish to check my back posts on this, the fact that it would be banned for stalling purposes is a forlorn conclusion, the fact is, it's also an impossibly safe approach, which makes MK Akuma tier, and therefore eliminates all other characters as tournament viable. That warrants a ban, and since this tech is bannable, it's gonna be the tech, not MK.


Let me just quote my overall explanation for why this tech needs to be banned period.

There's no rule against stalling... techniques that are infinite-stalls get banned.

Again, stalling isn't the half of it, it's an amazing approach.

The facts is, for wobbling, you still have to grab the opponent, this tech might not be a touch=death, but it IS a mind-numbingly good approach, an uncounterable one. Akuma never had a touch=death setup, but it was recognized that if Akuma was allowed, no other character would be tournament viable.

This tech is the same, a practically failsafe approach (barring absolute pure chance, one out of every 900 uses), or forcing your opponent into a horrible positio against MK, those are your options.

Since we know that the ledge isn't safe, and being above MK is quite possibly the worst position in the game, this is more then enough to merit a 90-10 match-up against every char in the game. No other char is tournament viable, therefore MK fits the ban criteria as a character.

Or we can just ban the technique, because character banning is always the last resort.

 

[Omega_Star]

It's funny how it's always the characters that are already really good that get the broken techniques.

Also, I know that I'm a total prick for doing this, but I do believe the words you're looking for are:
-"obviously" instead of "obliviously"
-"which" instead of "witch"
-"performed" instead of "preformed"
-"purposes" instead of "proposes"
Just doing my bit for humanity.

 

[IrArby]

Since when is the attack you do out of a capeinfinite considered weak? In the first vid, it does 14% damage. Why are we scoffing at a 14% unblockable approach whilst praising a 16% jab combo that is much less guaranteed?

 

[adumbrodeus]

Since when is the attack you do out of a capeinfinite considered weak? In the first vid, it does 14% damage. Why are we scoffing at a 14% unblockable approach whilst praising a 16% jab combo that is much less guaranteed?

Because people remember the massive afterlag and are forgetting that if you hit, it doesn't matter.

And this attack will hit... always (barring occasional massive points of luck).

 

[Cups]

man this game just keeps getting worse

 

[Yuna]

This has probably already happened, but I'm can't wait for a douchebag to come in and try to encourage everyone to stop being "noobs"; to just learn how to deal with it.

I's happened at least 10 times now.

This question might be old and slightly noobish but is there any possibility of doing this with a wiimote nunchuck? Possibly with shake smash by vibrating your arm very quickly or does the game not register those shakes near as well or as quickly as with the c-stick? I would test it myself but I don't have access to my wii right now.

Yes, it's just harder. Use your left-hand pinky to hold down on the control stick and alternate between pushing up on the C-stick using both thumbs.

Stuff.

Covered already.

Difficulty to enforce, judgment calls, stopwatches...

Read what's been written already before jumping in and assuming your arguments are brand new and have never been uttered before. Especially when they're so obvious someone must have used them already.,

 

[#HBC | Mac]

Take stalling aside...
this is still a really broken glitch,
some one who just works on being really good at D.I.C.K.ing can just DlCK at th ebeginning of the match, and attack out of it it to get the one hit they need, after that they dont even need to DlCK they can just run away and before anyone even comes close to hitting them, they'll just DlCK again and run to another part of the stage. This would take camping to whole new level.
and you can honestly tell me that you should be able to predict when the MK will come out of the cape to attack, you have no idea whether he is even near you. And if you did you could risk trying to attack him cause unless he came out of the cape at that exact second he wont be hit, and can punish yu in your attack lag.

on another note, people saying that a ref should monitor the length of time someone ***** for wouldn;t really work. Say you are running a tournament where nearly everyone is MK and they all DlCK to an exstensive amount, how would you have enuff refs to monitor this, thats not viable or at the very least effictien at all. and besides the argument on having a time limit was already shot down.

btw, people saying that they never banned a glitch for stalling, what about iCs freeze glitch. Im sure you could use that move in a legit way. After performing the freeze glitch simply kill them. But i think it was banned because you could just leave them there and infinitely stall the match (correct me if i'm wrong) so they banned it. This actually brings up another point, why is this banned but wobbling not, they do primarily to exact same thing, and it would be harder to do the freeze glitch cuz you would have to grab with nana not popo

but all in all, i don;t see any good arguments as to why this move should not be banned.

 

[NESSBOUNDER]

The attack that Metaknight can do from this technique is not a problem. Metaknight's down B attack leaves him very open and he's vulnerable just as he comes out and before he attacks. It's the stalling that we're all really worried about.

But I posted this on the tactical discussion Metaknight thread and I think it's such an incredibly perfect and awesome way to fix this problem. It's utterly foolproof. I mean it.

At the start of the match, we can ask the Metaknight player "are you going to D.I.C.K. the match away?" and if he says "no." then we put up a judge. If he says "yes" then we disqualify him.

I know, I know..."what if the Metaknight player is lying?" you say? What if the judge is grumpy and subject to bias? Well fear not, for this problem is now solved thanks to Nintendo's DS system and THIS GAME. http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=xpSpDXBnlVs.

Foolproof. No need to thank me. I'll just accept having the next Metaknight AT named after me.

-------

*SERIOUS*

Despite the fact that I do think this is a really neat trick and that it would be nice for Metaknight users to be able to use it modestly for mindgames and approaching, it's just too easy to abuse this for stalling. You can take breaks inbetween dimension cape stalling by using Mach Tornado, ledgehanging, flying under the stage, flying up into the air and other cheese tactics like that. You don't have to spend the entire match hitting C-up, you can use this move in conjunction with other stalling techniques...

 

[Corigames]

Let's ban every character except for Yoshi guys.

It would do great for the community. You wouldn't have to worry about fairness, because all the characters would be the same. If we only played as him, we would all have the same techs, the same options, the same recovery, etc. Everything would be equal. If someone found something new about Yoshi, it would only benefit everyone! Of course, we would be made fun of casuals for playing no items, only Yoshi, Final Destination, but they don't know anything. We could turn on almost any stage because Yoshi isn't a broken character who can exploit a lot. He doesn't have the best recovery, but he doesn't have the best edgegaurd either! He's perfect for competitive fights! We wouldn't have to worry about super techs of any kind, and things that didn't seem viable before are now, possibly, an option!

It's perfect!

:D

 

[NESSBOUNDER]

Let's ban every character except for Yoshi guys.

It would do great for the community. You wouldn't have to worry about fairness, because all the characters would be the same. If we only played as him, we would all have the same techs, the same options, the same recovery, etc. Everything would be equal. If someone found something new about Yoshi, it would only benefit everyone! Of course, we would be made fun of casuals for playing no items, only Yoshi, Final Destination, but they don't know anything. We could turn on almost any stage because Yoshi isn't a broken character who can exploit a lot. He doesn't have the best recovery, but he doesn't have the best edgegaurd either! He's perfect for competitive fights! We wouldn't have to worry about super techs of any kind, and things that didn't seem viable before are now, possibly, an option!

It's perfect!

:D

Why Yoshi? at least make it Lucario. At least then gimping will still survive in some form.

*sings* Anata no kokoro, shiritai no
Atashi o suki nano kirainano?
Kokorosukyan kyan
Kokorosukyan

 

[Corigames]

No, gimping is cheap and should be banned. If you get hit by it... YOU ARE GIMPED. It's an unstoppable tactic and we should put it away. The best way to do this is have ALL Yoshis.

 

[NESSBOUNDER]

No, gimping is cheap and should be banned. If you get hit by it... YOU ARE GIMPED. It's an unstoppable tactic and we should put it away. The best way to do this is have ALL Yoshis.

Good point. Besides, Lucario can combo.

But rather than Yoshi, why not use Captain Falcon? He doesn't have projectiles, and everybody knows that projectiles lead to camping and defensive play. It will also make the game 100x more epic.

 

[Corigames]

NO no no, you see, C Falcon can be hit out of his recovery easily. Another falcon could simply U air him affter jumping off the stage. It's not that simple for Yoshi. Plus, Yoshi has Armor on his recovery. This way it is more "safe" for him than Falcon. Also, Falcon has that Punch, the Reverse Punch, and the Double Revers Punch... that's way too many options. That could lead to mindgames and we all know how broken they are. We should ban mindgames too. Lastly, Yoshi having a projectile is fine. This way, people that just stand there can be hit by eggs and eggs aren't broken! Plus, I think, they can collide mid-air if they are both doing it! It's a fair match!

 

[NESSBOUNDER]

NO no no, you see, C Falcon can be hit out of his recovery easily. Another falcon could simply U air him affter jumping off the stage. It's not that simple for Yoshi. Plus, Yoshi has Armor on his recovery. This way it is more "safe" for him than Falcon. Also, Falcon has that Punch, the Reverse Punch, and the Double Revers Punch... that's way too many options. That could lead to mindgames and we all know how broken they are. We should ban mindgames too. Lastly, Yoshi having a projectile is fine. This way, people that just stand there can be hit by eggs and eggs aren't broken! Plus, I think, they can collide mid-air if they are both doing it! It's a fair match!

Wait! Yoshi's recovery can be easily gimped by another Yoshi footstooling him. We should ban footstools too. They're just silly and only require one button press. They will only lead to johns.

I still think that Sandbag vs Sandbag matches would be the height of competitive play.

 

[Corigames]

However, that can only be achieved through hacking, which no respecting competitive player would do. And, yes, footstool has to go! Also, any stage with water since swimming is a broken tactic. It saves you and another Yoshi cold possibly keep you in it until death! BROKEN!

 

[NESSBOUNDER]

However, that can only be achieved through hacking, which no respecting competitive player would do. And, yes, footstool has to go! Also, any stage with water since swimming is a broken tactic. It saves you and another Yoshi cold possibly keep you in it until death! BROKEN!

As if those stages weren't broken already. Delphino Plaza is a MOVING STAGE. Pirate ship has HAZARDS. We need Final Destination. Stages with platforms give Yoshi an unfair advantage due to him being able to throw eggs at people who are standing on them.

Actually, even Final Destination has a swirling background that may disorient some players. It should be a custom stage with a flat set of blocks, mountain background, Animal Crossing Cafe theme only!

 

[Corigames]

Actually, you should just have no music all together! That meaningless background noise only is planted into the game to reduce competitiveness! *shakes fist at Sakurai* If we turn the music all the way down, we would only here the sound effects. The important noise that tells us what is going on around you! We must Ban Music for competition sake, it's broken for some people. Also, we should only have flat levels with the custom stage as to not have broken flashy backgrounds to distract people! It's not fair to epileptics!

So, no items, no music, only Yoshi, Custom Stage.

 

[Muzga]

question. why do metaknight mains need this tech?
they dont!?
really!?
how long has this tech been publicly known?
less then 4 days!?

we can do without this tech. i hope to god it gets banned.
i can win without exploiting a glitch in this game
im sure a lot of others can do,
so whats the big deal?

 

[Corigames]

Good point. Let's also ban Snakes dash attack glitch. He doesn't need it, and it totally gives him WAY to good of an approach. One that is fast, does damage, AND produces a projectile at the end which can edgegaurd easily? BROKEN! Ban it fast. And chain grabbing? Yeah, we should ban that too because it is also broken. I mean, free 100% or so on some characters and there's NOTHING YOU CAN DO ABOUT IT? Sheesh, get rid of that crap. It's the only reason why some characters are good.

 

[Muzga]

lets also relax for a second!
snake doesnt become invincible when he does the mortar slide,
people complain about it but i have no problem with it,
the fact that its a glitch isnt the problem,
you can dodge snakes mortar slide and you can "not get grabbed" for the chaingrab.
THIS works against every character and puts them automatically in a positiong where they can do nothing until the user decided to stop

theres a big difference
(10flamers)

okay, let me reiterate.
Metaknight can not be hit by anything for an indefinite amount of time when he uses this. true or false?
Someone can eventually finish chaingrabbing, to which you can then do something.
explain to me in detail why chaingrabs and invincibility are exactly the same

 

[Corigames]

But MK can't do anything to you until he comes out either so... there really is a big difference.

 

[Yuna]

But MK can't do anything to you until he comes out either so... there really is a big difference.

But you can't touch him. And a smart Meta won't let you touch him when he uses this. He'll use it to approach, if he deems the situation unsafe, he'll retreat. What will you do if you don't have a really fast projectile? Meanwhile, you'll still have to predict what he'll do since this will be one of the game's very best mixups.

If you predict wrong, you lose. If you predict right, um, you shield his D.I.C.K.-canceled attack. Meanwhile, the only real counter to this is to stay out of his range. Great counter.

 

[Corigames]

Yes, if you predict wrong, you lose. Is it an instant kill move? No, but you still lose. He pops out of the dimension and it goes right to the GAME SET screen.

Stop falling for mob mentality and just learn to use your shield.

 

[Muzga]

shield for a potential six minutes. that works too!
this guy is brilliant!

 

[Justaway]

um.. can't you just grab the edge til he stops?

 

[Yuna]

Yes, if you predict wrong, you lose. Is it an instant kill move? No, but you still lose. He pops out of the dimension and it goes right to the GAME SET screen.

Stop falling for mob mentality and just learn to use your shield.

... ... ... ...

No one said you cannot use your shield. It's just still too good. So what if you use your shield and he just doesn't attack you, waiting for your shield to shrink? Hey, free shield-depleter!

 

[Corigames]

Yes, because we all know you have to have it up the whole time. That's the ONLY way to stop this. Just like it is the ONLY way to stop any move in the game.

And just why is this move broken now? Hypothetically, couldn't this move have been used before? You could move forward, still, up, OR away without them knowing. It would have been an unstoppable mind game! But now, because you can do it for as long as you want, it is unstoppable. If you could avoid it then, you can avoid it now. People can be baited, people will be baited. If I run at someone doing this, I'll bring up my shield when they are close. If they don't do it immediately, I'll roll away. I'll put the shield up again when they could do it again possibly. Do this over and over again until the shield gets low and hide on either a platform or the edge of the stage! Bam, there's one way of trying to stop this unbeatable tactic.

Seriously, has everyone been too busy jerking off to this AT to even TRY to counter it?

 

[Muzga]

um.. can't you just grab the edge til he stops?

easier to ban a tech then to turn tournament matches into a game of cat and mouse where nobody attacks

 

[PEEF!]

shield for a potential six minutes. that works too!
this guy is brilliant!

You're not brilliant. If he did it for 6 minutes he would be DQed for stalling. Period.

 

[Corigames]

easier to ban a tech then to turn tournament matches into a game of cat and mouse where nobody attacks

Isn't that what happened with the transition from Melee to Brawl?

DOOOHH HO HO HO HO HOOO

 

[Muzga]

Isn't that what happened with the transition from Melee to Brawl?

DOOOHH HO HO HO HO HOOO

lawl
thats different, and completely off topic
but still hillarious

 

[DKKountry]

Never mind, this thread changed topic very quickly and it's not funny anymore. lol

 

[NESSBOUNDER]

Gamers = fast fingers, good in bed.
Guitarists = fast fingers, good in bed.
Drummers = good rhythm, good in bed.

I do all three, I'm a broken character in bed. lol jp jp

Until Snake mortar-slides into the room and uses his tilts to satisfy where I need to use my Smashes to do the same.

Ladies and gentlemen, we have a winner.

close thread.

or as Snake would have it: "FTHOOM..........KAJOOM, KAJOOM....KO!"

 

[Corigames]

Nessbounder... your sig is very... distracting... to say... the... OH **** HE MISSED... wait, false alarm. Lucas totally DID hit it >_>

 

[adumbrodeus]

Let's ban every character except for Yoshi guys.

It would do great for the community. You wouldn't have to worry about fairness, because all the characters would be the same. If we only played as him, we would all have the same techs, the same options, the same recovery, etc. Everything would be equal. If someone found something new about Yoshi, it would only benefit everyone! Of course, we would be made fun of casuals for playing no items, only Yoshi, Final Destination, but they don't know anything. We could turn on almost any stage because Yoshi isn't a broken character who can exploit a lot. He doesn't have the best recovery, but he doesn't have the best edgegaurd either! He's perfect for competitive fights! We wouldn't have to worry about super techs of any kind, and things that didn't seem viable before are now, possibly, an option!

It's perfect!

:D

*sigh*

There's a difference between being powerful and being Akuma tier... that's a pathetically bad reductio ad absurdum.

Yes, if you predict wrong, you lose. Is it an instant kill move? No, but you still lose. He pops out of the dimension and it goes right to the GAME SET screen.

Stop falling for mob mentality and just learn to use your shield.

HOW THE HECK DO YOU EXPECT TO PREDICT RIGHT? In case you haven't noticed the odds of actually predicting right are 1/30 if MK can hold it for 15 seconds at best. The longer the MK can hold it, the more weighted the odds are, thinking that it can be reliably predicted is just wishful thinking.

Yes, because we all know you have to have it up the whole time. That's the ONLY way to stop this. Just like it is the ONLY way to stop any move in the game.

He waits out the shield, and attack when you drop it, there's a few frames after you drop the shield before you can bring it up again.

Spot-dodgeing and rolling have lag frames to punish.

And just why is this move broken now? Hypothetically, couldn't this move have been used before? You could move forward, still, up, OR away without them knowing. It would have been an unstoppable mind game! But now, because you can do it for as long as you want, it is unstoppable. If you could avoid it then, you can avoid it now. People can be baited, people will be baited. If I run at someone doing this, I'll bring up my shield when they are close. If they don't do it immediately, I'll roll away. I'll put the shield up again when they could do it again possibly. Do this over and over again until the shield gets low and hide on either a platform or the edge of the stage! Bam, there's one way of trying to stop this unbeatable tactic.

LOL, the difference is, now MK can wait as long as he wants before launching an immiediate attack.

Before you didn't have to predict the timing in order to counter that move.

As for your "counter", roll has vulnerability frames, this move can be DI'ed. When you roll, as soon as you are vulnerable, YOU WILL BE PUNISHED. Obviously, everyone except you noticed this....

And hiding on the edge... the edge is a supremely vulnerable position, even if you can't use the technique itself, it's existance forces MK's opponent into a very disadvantaged position.

Same with a platform that is high enough to actually use to dodge this tech, being above MK is a HORRIBLE position.


A threat is greater then it's execution, ok maybe not in this case, but the threat still creates a massive strategic advantage here.

Seriously, has everyone been too busy jerking off to this AT to even TRY to counter it?

Everyone did, and it seems everyone except you realized the obvious, it is uncounterable.

 

[PEEF!]

And hiding on the edge... the edge is a supremely vulnerable position, even if you can't use the technique itself, it's existance forces MK's opponent into a very disadvantaged position.

Same with a platform that is high enough to actually use to dodge this tech, being above MK is a HORRIBLE position..

It seems to me you dont want your Marth to have a further disadvantage vs MK. That is your problem with it.

Just for kicks, tell me what is so horrible about being above MK. I would certainly rather be above an MK than above a Marth!

 

[Corigames]

Yes, completely uncounterable. Do you even hear yourself? Uncounterable? There is absolutely no way anyone who knows how to do this is EVER going to lose a match. That is what you are saying. No matter the skill of the other person, no matter how bad the person playing as MK is, no matter who organizes the tourney, no matter what character you play, etc. there is absolutely nothing that anyone could ever hope to do against this one, single, solitary move? No. You are aboslutely WRONG.

Show a video of someone trying against it before you say such stupid things. Wait until someone actually does it in a fight before you ban it. you are so quick to kill this off before it can even be done. do I like it? no. I hate MK, but banning something that gives him more advantage just because no one likes it is ********.

 

[Elektrik]

Well I don't want to go through 60 pages to see if anyone had this idea..... so please forgive me if this has been suggested (I just read the first 6-7 pages)


I have an idea:

Why not make a rule that this AT can only be used when you are behind. (in stock/percent)

That would be much easier to monitor then timing the stall with a stopwatch.

 

[Yuna]

Yes, completely uncounterable. Do you even hear yourself? Uncounterable? There is absolutely no way anyone who knows how to do this is EVER going to lose a match. That is what you are saying. No matter the skill of the other person, no matter how bad the person playing as MK is, no matter who organizes the tourney, no matter what character you play, etc. there is absolutely nothing that anyone could ever hope to do against this one, single, solitary move? No. You are aboslutely WRONG.

(SSF2T) Bad Akumas lose against good players. Akuma has one single move which single-handed shuts down everyone else in the entire game.

Akuma is banned.

I have an idea:

Why not make a rule that this AT can only be used when you are behind. (in stock/percent)

What the hell kind of rule would that be?!