MetaKnight Infinite Dimensional Cape - hope you enjoy

[CryoStasis]

Yuna again you miss the point!
if you do it for 30 secs people will know that you are stalling!!
Thats the point.
If you break up the 30 secs into 5 secs a piece it doesnt matter.
You know that they are stalling, you see them doing the same thing over and over to avoid you.
Either Way it is stalling and easy to see.
Plus, this talk of doin it for thirty secs then doing it again
or breaking it up by fives consistantly is all great IN THEORY!!

Hylian said IF you could JC shine indefinately it could have been banned
However it was just too hard to do indefinately

Same with this IN THEORY you could do this indefinately
However its just not gonna happen

There are no Alt ways to do this thing

So why your theories are wonderful we have yet to see anyone do it like you say
If you wanna PROVE your theory then please do so, however as of now it is only a theory and nothing else. Thus meaning it shouldn't not be banned till it has proven to do everything you have said in a tourney match without so much as a small problem.
If you can do it every five secs without gettin hit i would take back everything ive said.
But i want PROOF!

 

[GodotAA]

when i used it against my friend today im able to do it for about 5-10 seconds consistently, but alot of the times id be appearing at a horrid time into a wario f-smash nearly killing me.

 

[Yuna]

Stuff

Who is missing the point here?

Whether it's humanly possible and whether it's easily monitored are two completely different arguments. I'm just arguing them at the same time. I've said why it's much more efficient and easier from a TO's standpoint to outright ban it at least four times already. I will not say it again when you've obviously read the posts where I say it as you reply to things written in them.

 

[xS A M U R A Ix]

i honestly don't see how people can do this consistently.

 

[acv]

the difference between using it to stall and using it strategically is too much.

also take in consideration the fact that its too hard to do it consistently.

 

[Hylian]

Just because you were able to do one thing doesn't mean you're automatically able to do another thing.

I was merely pointing out that I have good technical skill, which certainly applies to this.

1) Why would anyone practice it for just an hour? They'd practice it for months, mastering it as far as humanly possible.
2) Who told you to reappear right next to your opponent, anyway? Who told you to do this against the fastest characters in the game?

1) There is nothing to practice Yuna. The input is easy. It's the strength of peoples fingers that limits them. There is no timing to it. Just go as fast as you can. This wears out your finger really fast. So fast that using this just seems impractical.
2) Again, have you tried this? It's really really linear. If you want to move, then you have to direct the down B the direction you want to go before you start. You cannot move back and fourth. And it is really obvious where you are because the camera will be panning with you and you do not move very fast.

10 seconds? Fine, I'll teleport around the stage, back and forth. If you're among the slower half of the cast and lack a good projectile, there's no possible way to hit me. Heck, even if you do have a projectile, unless it's lethal (and fast), it won't matter if I'm ahead in stock count.

It sometimes does the attack out of the down B. That has a ton of lag, and any character would easily be able to hit you before you could down B again. Also, this is almost no different then just trying to do it forever. Your fingers would not be able to handle that Yuna. I doubt anyone on this planet that the finger durability to just go back and fourth for 10 seconds at a time.


Yuna, please answer this question:

Have you tried this and done it successfully for over 10 seconds?

 

[Yuna]

the difference between using it to stall and using it strategically is too much.

also take in consideration the fact that its too hard to do it consistently.

And? The difficulty to police it and to tell the difference is also too much.

1) There is nothing to practice Yuna. The input is easy. It's the strength of peoples fingers that limits them. There is no timing to it. Just go as fast as you can. This wears out your finger really fast. So fast that using this just seems impractical.

No one says you have to do it for 8 straight minutes. You can rest inbetween. If you stall for 10 seconds with 30 seconds inbetween, that's over a minute you stalled the match away.

2) Again, have you tried this? It's really really linear. If you want to move, then you have to direct the down B the direction you want to go before you start. You cannot move back and fourth. And it is really obvious where you are because the camera will be panning with you and you do not move very fast.

You move fast enough.

It sometimes does the attack out of the down B. That has a ton of lag, and any character would easily be able to hit you before you could down B again. Also, this is almost no different then just trying to do it forever. Your fingers would not be able to handle that Yuna. I doubt anyone on this planet that the finger durability to just go back and fourth for 10 seconds at a time.

See above. Also with most characters, you'll eat a small punisher at most. Which won't really mean much if you're ahead in stock and the timer's about to run out anyway.

Have you tried this and done it successfully for over 10 seconds?

Not yet. But that's not what I'm arguing here (really, I'm just arguing that it's too soon to say "It's humanly impossible to do it for more than 10 seconds!"). I'm arguing that it has to be banned because it can be used to stall (in small increments) and it's not easy to monitor lest we bring in judgment calls, we don't want that.

BTW, what makes you think it's so impossible to train your fingers to be durable enough to do it consistently for longer periods of time? It just takes a lot of skill and dedication.

 

[CryoStasis]

Uhh Yuna what TO said it would be easier to ban this without seein it action?
You because i believe i saw 2 TOs earler sayin that its not banned in our tournies and that it would not be a problem. It may be easier for YOU but banning an AT outright before even testing the info isn't helping anyone. You want to get rid of the AT at your tourney, fine. But no one is gonna ban this AT just cause people want to. It will be banned if it is worthy enough to be banned. Banning something is not a judgement that should be taken lightly. It is a permanent judgement that says this cannot and will not ever be used again. So u better get more than a theory before you start tryin to bring down the Banhammer Yuna. It doesn't matter if its easier for the TO, it matters if the Move is completely and irreversibly Broken!
You have to test this, not just bring out theories. And as it stands, IN TESTING(not theory) this move cannot be used consistently enough for a ban. Hylian said so himself. AND HE ACTUALLY TESTED IT!

 

[Hylian]

Uhh Yuna what TO said it would be easier to ban this without seein it action?
You because i believe i saw 2 TOs earler sayin that its not banned in our tournies and that it would not be a problem. It may be easier for YOU but banning an AT outright before even testing the info isn't helping anyone. You want to get rid of the AT at your tourney, fine. But no one is gonna ban this AT just cause people want to. It will be banned if it is worthy enough to be banned. Banning something is not a judgement that should be taken lightly. It is a permanent judgement that says this cannot and will not ever be used again. So u better get more than a theory before you start tryin to bring down the Banhammer Yuna. It doesn't matter if its easier for the TO, it matters if the Move is completely and irreversibly Broken!
You have to test this, not just bring out theories. And as it stands, IN TESTING(not theory) this move cannot be used consistently enough for a ban. Hylian said so himself. AND HE ACTUALLY TESTED IT!

Just because I say something doesn't mean it will hold true. We are all entitled to our own opinions.


Also, please articulate your posts better. It's really hard to read and reply to that seriously. Breaking the post up helps. Not trying to be rude, just pointing things out.

 

[GodotAA]

Ban for stalling not for strategy... i win


its really fun to use every now and then but to stall with it ill forfeit instead


if they wanna ban it let them ban it people will still cry about him

 

[CryoStasis]

lol sorry Hylian, I was just typing what was on my mind before i forgot.

 

[acv]

how many tournaments have you attended since this was found?

 

[Yuna]

Stuff!

Meanwile, there's also many TOs who want to abn it. Not everyone is in agreement with this, yet. But then again, did I say this has to be banned now?

No. I just said that with what's currently known, I think it has to be banned (IMO). But I also said that extensive testing should be done first and that personal judgment is inconsequential, it will be banned if it's deemed broken.

Try reading my posts once in while. It helps in not getting your entire posts refuted.

 

[Hylian]

Yuna, I have nothing left to say until you try this out and test it for yourself. Not saying you are wrong because you haven't, I just don't like arguing with theory.

That's all.

 

[Yuna]

Yuna, I have nothing left to say until you try this out and test it for yourself. Not saying you are wrong because you haven't, I just don't like arguing with theory.

That's all.

I do not have the time to do this in the near future, I'm sorry. I'm just here to bring in real arguments into the mix based on presedence and fact instead of pure judgment calls and to question questionable arguments.

I apologize for this. Others can prove the point of whether it can be used effectively for stalling or not for me and I'll use them as evidence. I mean, have you been to the moon? How do you know it's not made out of swiss cheese? Yet, you do, because you have reliable evidence to point to.

Now, if more testing is done on this and videos released, we could point to them and go "Well, this indicates it can/cannot be used to stall effetively".

Again, my non-testing is not by choice.

 

[CryoStasis]

Hey Yuna I'm just trying to make sure that this doesn't get banned, until we have complete proof that it is as possible as all of these theories seem to claim. That is all.
If you are thinking the same thing, then we are on the same page. =D

 

[xS A M U R A Ix]

So has anyone proved the point it can be used for stalling? There's no factual proof of this being done other than what's on youtube which was all of about 6 seconds.

And if so how long till their controller stops working?

 

[acv]

So has anyone proved the point it can be used for stalling? There's no factual proof of this being done other than what's on youtube which was all of about 6 seconds.

And if so how long till their controller stops working?

the last time i did it i lasted about 20 seconds before my controller DIED

 

[Hylian]

I do not have the time to do this in the near future, I'm sorry. I'm just here to bring in real arguments into the mix based on presedence and fact instead of pure judgment calls and to question questionable arguments.

I apologize for this. Others can prove the point of whether it can be used effectively for stalling or not for me and I'll use them as evidence. I mean, have you been to the moon? How do you know it's not made out of swiss cheese? Yet, you do, because you have reliable evidence to point to.

Now, if more testing is done on this and videos released, we could point to them and go "Well, this indicates it can/cannot be used to stall effetively".

Again, my non-testing is not by choice.

I understand where you are coming from. And yeah, I would love to see anyone do it consistently. Doesn't have to be you. I just prefer not to argue with theory because I don't really feel on the same page of understanding as the person I am talking with. It's a personal thing, and doesn't really have anything to do with the topic at hand.

Please people, try and prove that you can do this consistently to stall. Show actual matches. Show something. I would love for this to be banned. Just can't see it happening because of how much it wears your finger out >_>.

 

[xS A M U R A Ix]

the last time i did it i lasted about 20 seconds before my controller DIED

haha seriously?

SEE THIS **** BREAKS CONTROLLERS YUNA.

 

[Fatmanonice]

I'm currently using it for hit and run tactics on a lv 9 Ganondorf on Final Destination. It was three stock and I only got hit once. I also accidently killed myself once from doing it for too long. It's very hard to change directions and if someone does it it's pretty likely they will go in one direction. It's slower then just running though but, as many people have pointed out, you are completely invincible and invisible. I'd like to think that a human player wouldn't fall for this tactic too often (especially when the camera moves to track Metaknight's movement) but... Again, it's pretty hard to do consistently and you have to have freakishing good reactions to actually time how far you go. This could spell trouble for slower characters without projectiles though but doesn't Metaknight **** most these characters anyways? Going back to the Ness infinite arguement, it just makes the match freakishly one sided but not impossible so players can probably just adapt to it. *wink wink*

 

[GodotAA]

i cant even do it for 10 seconds cause my thumb acts up

 

[Hylian]

I was actually scared I was going to break my C-stick after trying this lol. I switched to a controller I don't use that much just to be safe >_>.

 

[GodotAA]

i did the same after i intially did it and when i showed my friends

 

[acv]

if anybody cares i have the replay where i go back and forth once on a custom stage that has MAX width.

btw how is this tech going to be called?

 

[Yuna]

Please people, try and prove that you can do this consistently to stall. Show actual matches. Show something. I would love for this to be banned. Just can't see it happening because of how much it wears your finger out >_>.

I'm just saying, if it can be used to stall, then it will be banned.

haha seriously?

SEE THIS **** BREAKS CONTROLLERS YUNA.

We should ban playing Brawl at all then, since it'll wear down your controller eventually.

Going back to the Ness infinite arguement, it just makes the match freakishly one sided but not impossible so players can probably just adapt to it. *wink wink*

Ness can still win against Marth. He just has to be that good. Marth's infinite does in no way make him invincible and prevent Ness from hitting him (unless he's already doing the infinite). Marth has to actually grab Ness to start the infinite.

Meanwhile, Meta-Knight can, at any time, initiate the Prolonged Cape or whatever we're gonna call it. There's nothing you can to do stop him from doing this other by somehow constantly keeping him in either hit- or shieldstun or above the ground.

It's not the same thing. Stop making it sound like it's the same thing. Marth hasn't won the second he initiates the infinite. Ness can still come back. A technique that allows you to Infinite Stall will give you the victory the second you initiate it.

 

[xS A M U R A Ix]

I say this. Someone put up a video of a REAL match where they get a hit and then proceed to stall for 7 or so minutes till time runs out and win with this. That should be proof enough.

I can promise you, it won't happen.

Here's the thing, if someone does this, just stand over the spot they vanished at or where they are moving to. Wait till the second the mess up and then f.smash them. Snake practically gets and instant kill when MK goes for this.

 

[masterspeaks]

I say don't ban it, who really cares if it is an "infinite" stall. If someone has the dedication to grow the gorilla forearms necessary to pull this off for 7 minutes, good for them they deserve to win.

Competitive Brawl has been a joke for months, might as well put the last nail in the coffin. Why bother attacking at all, it doesn't net you any advantage when your opponent's hitstun wears off before your attack. There are no mind games. The game is too slow to bother with that, all you have to do is react.

I say, Metaknight v. MetaKnight matches for everyone! Then after their games are over, Brawl apologists can stroke themselves with their massive arms. And everyone else can find a new game to play. Everybody wins that way.

 

[CryoStasis]

lol i tried to see how long i could do it without moving, i made it about 11 secs before my thumb slipped =p
dude that is seriously hard.
Also there seems to be a certain kind of timing that's fast but not super fast.
So if you go too fast or slow, you will mess up.
Test it on a slower speed on Training mode to see.
If you go at the same speed in 2/3 speed as you do in regular, you wont do it.
More testing though please.
Also you cannot see the Tag when you disappear.

 

[Uffe]

Very nice find! I don't play MK, but I might now. XD

 

[CryoStasis]

I say, Metaknight v. MetaKnight matches for everyone! Then after their games are over, Brawl apologists can stroke themselves with their massive arms.

I LOL'd, Hard.

 

[xS A M U R A Ix]

I dunno why people are acting like MK is god tier all by himself.

Come on guys, have we forgot about the REAL enemy, Snake? Snake looks at MK and he dies.

 

[GodotAA]

i dont care if its banned or not either way im so annoying the people at Hofstra with it

 

[acv]

I dunno why people are acting like MK is god tier all by himself.

Come on guys, have we forgot about the REAL enemy, Snake? Snake looks at MK and he dies.

except that when MK is doing dimmensional cape SNAKE CANT SEE HIM.

 

[Yuna]

Also you cannot see the Tag when you disappear.

Finally someone answered this question.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Against a good player, saying "don't get grabbed" is virtually the same as "don't get hit" but whatever... The point is that it makes an already tough match up freakishly one sided. Yeah, Ness can still win... if your opponent doesn't know the tech or has a seizure during the battle.

Anyways, back to Dimensional Gliding or whatever this is going to be called, a question came up while I was testing this against Ganondorf and DK: is this really all that different from Fox using hit and run tactics using the Fox Phantasm? Isn't he invincible after the attack is initiated until he reappears? It only takes two to travel across Final Destination and it's faster than Metaknight's technique. I can see how this can be used for stalling but I can also see how this be used to deal with people who camp with projectiles. What I'm saying is that people can stall with either method but people moniter the fights and the players sort of have a psychic agreement about not, for lack of a better phrase, "playing gay."

@ masterspeaks:

Considering how there are people who have almost broken their controllers from trying this for only a few hours, I seriously doubt people will spend the time getting "gorilla forearms" to do it for a minute, let alone, 7 minutes at a time. Also, don't you think stalling for longer then 20 seconds a match with this would be pretty obvious and easy to stop? Also, we get it, you're bitter about Brawl not turning out 100% the way you wanted it too. Awesome... No one is forcing you to play it and other people playing and enjoying it shouldn't drive you nuts (although it probably does).

 

[CryoStasis]

Ok,this MUST be done with the C-stick
The C-stick MUST BE ON SMASH ATTACKS!
Any other settings on the C-stick will not allow you to do it
oh and did anyone Test the Training mode speed thing yet?
It seems to stand true where im at, but i would really appreciate some back up.

All you have to do is:
Go to training, Do it on regular speed
Then change to 2/3 speed and use the same button speed that you used for the Regular speed.

Sorry if that didn't sound right

But anyone who would do it would be great.
Please and thank you! =D

 

[deepseadiva]

Anyways, back to Dimensional Gliding or whatever this is going to be called, a question came up while I was testing this against Ganondorf and DK: is this really all that different from Fox using hit and run tactics using the Fox Phantasm? Isn't he invincible after the attack is initiated until he reappears?

Great. Now the Fox mainers are going to discover and invent there own version. Fantastic.

 

[Yuna]

Anyways, back to Dimensional Gliding or whatever this is going to be called, a question came up while I was testing this against Ganondorf and DK: is this really all that different from Fox using hit and run tactics using the Fox Phantasm? Isn't he invincible after the attack is initiated until he reappears? It only takes two to travel across Final Destination and it's faster than Metaknight's technique. I can see how this can be used for stalling but I can also see how this be used to deal with people who camp with projectiles. What I'm saying is that people can stall with either method but people moniter the fights and the players sort of have a psychic agreement about not, for lack of a better phrase, "playing gay."

Since when does Fox disappear during Phantasm and since when is he even invincible during it, anyway? It's also freakishly slow and laggy.

 

[Vyse]

If Yuna didn't say it, I was going to.
Fox's is perfectly vulnerable during the phantasm (Across - B). He has a hitbox just like anybody else during it.

Meta's dimensional cape stall however, does not.