Meta Knight's New Matchup Discussion Thread: Snake *Complete*

[Smash G 0 D]

DTL, you should add my post to the front page. ;D

 

[ODST01]

i hate this mu. O_0

 

[Yunior597]

Which stages are the best counterpick in the current ruleset?

 

[Mr. game and watch]

The current Ruleset varies by every TO.

On average though, I usually like to CP to Delfino vs. snake, and he he bans that, frigate or maybe Yoshis.

Ban BF

 

[Player-4]

Wtf why would you ban BF? That's one of our best stages.

 

[Mr. game and watch]

All of our stages are good though, and BF is arguably snakes best stage.

If we have no bad stages (maybe lylat but that could be just me) then ban the opponents good stages.

 

[ぱみゅ]

Ban FD. At least for this MU.
Snake's grenade setups are frustrating, and any platform would help you instead of being forced to get to him from the front.
BF might be a bit annoying as he can camp under one and not really allow you to attack from above, but he has to try to cover more room now, meaning he leaves more open spots. Be patient and you'll find an opening there.

 

[Mr. game and watch]

Grenades are easy to avoid lol.
1. Fly
Or
2. Run and shield
Or
3. Catch nade fastfall shield
He can only have two out so you only have to watch those to things and space dtilt. I like FD in this MU.

 

[Ledge_g2]

Thanks for your help earlier mr. game and watch. It's helping a lot.
I got a new question. Whats the best way to juggle snake when he is falling with a nade?
Say, I'm on the floor of FD. How should I handle each situation: Snake falling straight down but a quarter or so FD distance away or falling onto a platform on BF or something. I'm finding that they are getting to land for free more than half the time when they do this because I can't seem to find a way to consistently continue to juggle. When they are landing straight on top of me I've been successful with a spaced Uair, is this the best option?

Thanks for any help

 

[Mr. game and watch]

Uairs great cause it usually doesn't explode the grenade. If he's too far to run, jump, and Uair, you could just punish his landing with a dash grab. Nado can work sometimes, by making snake drop the grenade and you not being directly under him in your Nado, but 90% of the time it will explode.
But if he's over ~160% and you're under 100%, it's probably worth if to just let the base explode via Nado, cause it'll kill him and you'll live, just taking 8(?) percent.


Oh, from the dash grab, your best options are to fthrow or uthtow since he's holding the nade. If you time the uthrow to where the nade explodes when you're up off screen, and you're a higher port than snake, it'll instant kill him and you'll live.
Fthrow you can throw him, let the nade explode(if the nade hasn't been out that long maybe go for a Uair) then follow his trajectory.
Dthrow will explode the nade and bthrow... Could work I guess. I just never use bthrow lol

 

[ぱみゅ]

Grenades are easy to avoid lol.
1. Fly
Or
2. Run and shield
Or
3. Catch nade fastfall shield
He can only have two out so you only have to watch those to things and space dtilt. I like FD in this MU.

lol Snake doesn't want to hit you with nades, he wants to cover himself so you attack and make grenades explode. Any trade is benefical for him unless you have a massive lead, or even a stock lead.
Grabbing a grenade is a bad option, at least it is if it is the first of the two grenades, and good Sankes shouldn't let others have the time to grab the second one.


Nado is good on that situation if you space it well (hit with only the very horizontal tip of it), but if he's going to land at te same ground level you are, grab is generally the best option.
If he lands on a platform, maybe Nair so you get the best of the trade, or simply let him land and wait for him to do something, being above MK is a bad position anyway.

 

[Mr. game and watch]

Ik that's why you dodge/shield them, and land with a spaced dtilt, cause it out ranges his ftilt iirc.
And if dtilt trips then dash grab>dthrow>any follow up.

 

[TSM ZeRo]

You guys got it wrong. You ban PS1 vs Snake, not FD. This is because of the stage's transformations that allow Snake to camp more easily, have more space, get some setups, gimmicks, tricks and the windmill and rock transformation make him live forever there.

FD relies you to simply learn how to deal with grenade spacing. That's it. Much better than everything I typed above.

Battlefield is fine vs Snake. Better than Smashville and Yoshi's. And a tiny bit better than Lylat. This is because SV and YI help Snake recover, and BF and Lylat don't. And landing with platforms for Snake is a nightmare if Meta Knight ala M2K.

 

[ぱみゅ]

I don't mind PS:M against Snake, I guess I'm just very patient and don't mind moving around grenades. I simply don't freak out when I have one near.
Plus I NEVER attack Snake on the windmill, it's just too risky, I rather stall the whole transformation than play possible trades.

 

[TSM ZeRo]

What you said makes no sense. Why play Snake on his best stage vs MK? FD is not as good as PS1. It's not because of grenades only, it's because that every single transformation is good or better for him. I learned this the hard way vs top Snakes, like Ally. FD is just a 'Deal with grenades stage'. Much better.

 

[ぱみゅ]

Maybe that's jsut me and my despise for FD.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

There's a lot of propaganda from scubs that FD supposedly polarizes matchups. Actually, the only top tier matchup that noticeably changes on FD is MK vs ICs. FD is an alright stage for MK against Snake because tornado juggles become very powerful on FD. There's no reason to ban it. Imho it's actually Snake's worst starter stage.

Imo Snake's best stages in this MU are

PS 1 > Lylat / Castle / Halberd
BF / SV / Yoshi's > FD / Frigate
Delphino

 

[Dekillsage]

You guys got it wrong. You ban PS1 vs Snake, not FD. This is because of the stage's transformations that allow Snake to camp more easily, have more space, get some setups, gimmicks, tricks and the windmill and rock transformation make him live forever there.

FD relies you to simply learn how to deal with grenade spacing. That's it. Much better than everything I typed above.

Battlefield is fine vs Snake. Better than Smashville and Yoshi's. And a tiny bit better than Lylat. This is because SV and YI help Snake recover, and BF and Lylat don't. And landing with platforms for Snake is a nightmare if Meta Knight ala M2K.

FD is better than PS1. Saying Snake is better during the transformations and gets more space or allows him to camp better is false. There are 2 transformations where snake has no room to do anything and can't catch you if you decide to just run away until it transforms back to normal. If you don't want to fight snake in the windmill then just don't.(Even though you win there).

Not saying PS1 is a bad stage. C4 becomes a much better tool in the match up on this stage, and transformations helps stop mks momentum if he decided to wait it out.
Dthrow is also really good on some of the transformations IF snake lands it.

FD is just a flat stage that gives us all the room we would ever need and no platforms or transformations that can potentially **** us over. It gives snake the chance to finally have control over the pace of the match(until mk hits us lol).

If I were to rank the best stages like Gheb did it would go
FD, Ps1, YI
Halberd, Lylat, Castle, Frigate
BF, SV and Delphino are garbage.

 

[ぱみゅ]

There's a lot of propaganda from scubs that FD supposedly polarizes matchups. Actually, the only top tier matchup that noticeably changes on FD is MK vs ICs.

I agree that for MK, FD doesn't really make a notable difference in any Top Tier Matchup except ICs, tho.

I still dislike it, and would ban it agaisnt Snake because I don't mind being taken to PS1 and get camped.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

FD's not a particularly good stage for Diddy. It's not a better stage for him against Snake, Falco, Olimar, ICs or Marth than BF or SV are. Diddy still loses to MK on that stage too.

 

[Demna]

Hey guys, it's been months this this thread had any discussions. As a Metaknight player, I've faced some good Snakes and I rarely lost to any. However, today I faced an amazing Snake who won 2 sets against my MK. I seem to have trouble with his Snake on stage in the following scenarios:
1- Snake punishes any move I perform, for example: when I F-tilt or D-smash, he shields and Punishes with his F-tilt.
2- Whenever I space D-tilt, he just shields, roll away, and starts nading. The D-tilt you guys are complimenting in this thread wasn't as effective in my case, is it something incorrect that I did?
I heard so many approaches to Snake in this thread, but they all seem to be at debate. What's the ideal approach right now? Because grounded approach is definitely not the best.

Can someone please list the stages in order that Metaknight has advantage over Snake with? (Stages: FD, SV, BF, CS, PS:1, Lylat, Yoshi's, RC, Halberd, Delfino, and Brinstar).

 

[TKD]

Hey guys, it's been months this this thread had any discussions. As a Metaknight player, I've faced some good Snakes and I rarely lost to any. However, today I faced an amazing Snake who won 2 sets against my MK. I seem to have trouble with his Snake on stage in the following scenarios:
1- Snake punishes any move I perform, for example: when I F-tilt or D-smash, he shields and Punishes with his F-tilt.
2- Whenever I space D-tilt, he just shields, roll away, and starts nading. The D-tilt you guys are complimenting in this thread wasn't as effective in my case, is it something incorrect that I did?
I heard so many approaches to Snake in this thread, but they all seem to be at debate. What's the ideal approach right now? Because grounded approach is definitely not the best.

Can someone please list the stages in order that Metaknight has advantage over Snake with? (Stages: FD, SV, BF, CS, PS:1, Lylat, Yoshi's, RC, Halberd, Delfino, and Brinstar).

Sorry for the late reply.

1- Don't dsmash from neutral. Ever. In any match-up. LOL. Also, dtilt>ftilt.
2- Make him stop that by using dtilt as a bait for the roll and punish the roll with a dashgrab/dashattack. If he keeps doing it, keep punishing it. He's either disrespecting you or hasn't noticed.

The ideal approaches imo are zoning safely into a range where you can dtilt him (NEVER whiff it though; it's better to execute it too close than from too far away or you'll just eat an ftilt), whittling down his shield with dairs (to tornado him or counter anti-nado stances/tactics), and when you can't do much at least try to find openings to toss his nades back at him. Dash attack can be good, like in many match-ups, as it's spontaneous and probably the most explosive approach in the game. Dashgrab can be very rewarding but it's risky. It's easy for him to counter it with spot-dodge/pivot grab/jab/tilts (although when an opponent is ready to use this kind of counters, he's usually easy to tornado).

I'm not sure about the stages, specially with the current stage list. I'd just avoid FD and pay very close attention in Lylat. Also, Stadium is dangerous but M2K told me awhile ago that you can put things in your favor there by kind of forcing the timeout (I'm not sure if this still applies, though).

For most characters, the match-up vs Snake is basically "let him land anything on you except ftilt or grab". His lacking mobility helps in avoiding them. The rest of his moves do roughly the same damage as yours, but with far, far less follow-up options/potencial.

Also, never let him land a hit on you while returning to neutral (him returning to neutral is bad enough). It's his equivalent of you landing a 50~100% juggle on him.

 

[Demna]

Thanks
Any other ideas/suggestions will be appreciated as well.