Meta Knight's New Match Up Thread: Wario

[B.Mack]

good Warios never fish for a waft. and wouldnt attempt it unless its guaranteed.

 

[Exdeath]

good Warios never fish for a waft. and wouldnt attempt it unless its guaranteed.

Good Wario's don't just used Down-B when it's guaranteed (they get reads, too), but yeah; good players know not to force the kill.

 

[Karcist]

^ agreed keep trolling/ jokes to a minimum on the MU threads the only good mks (based on placings etc.) that are regularly on this board is orion and jem.

This 10x. You should be eating up what they have to say, especially Jem.

 

[Player-4]

Super meatrider to the rescueeeee!

 

[etecoon]

This 10x. You should be eating up what they have to say, especially Jem.

I think you have some future jem's on your chin there

 

[Kaffei]

you guys are dumb he's just acknowledging that jem is smart.

 

[etecoon]

we all know jem is smart and no one was implying otherwise, pointless meatride was pointless

 

[Kaffei]

acknowledging someone's intelligence is not meatriding. pointless call out was pointless.

 

[Jem.]

Pointless argument is pointless! Who cares who thinks I'm smart or not. We all have our own tournament results

On a serious note, what do you guys usually ban vs Wario? I actually really dislike Brinstar just because if they get a good Waft or a good fsmash, i could lost the stock quick. But I'm not sure what I ban, because a lot of Wario's also play other characters. (I forget what I banned vs Malcolm, I was so tired that MLG weekend)

Might help me out if I play more beast Wario only mains!

 

[Grump]

Pointless argument is pointless! Who cares who thinks I'm smart or not. We all have our own tournament results

On a serious note, what do you guys usually ban vs Wario? I actually really dislike Brinstar just because if they get a good Waft or a good fsmash, i could lost the stock quick. But I'm not sure what I ban, because a lot of Wario's also play other characters. (I forget what I banned vs Malcolm, I was so tired that MLG weekend)

Might help me out if I play more beast Wario only mains!

I usually ban Norfair if it's allowed otherwise. Killer air game that Wario has is only magnified by all the platforms, hazards, and wide-out spacing that accentuates his horizontal aerial movement.

 

[KassandraNova]

Some warios love lylat. O.o
I remember when I took krystedez to green greens. Haha. Oh that was such a bad day. xD

Warios love neutralz. Also one thing overswarm always mentioned was if you do a Full hop retreating uair>dair there is literally nothing wario can do about it. I've tried it, works alright. I think warios air dodge is extremely weird and its something you have to get used to. Wario has that crazy horizontal momentum, which we don't, I think we just gotta react to his dairs and such.

 

[Exdeath]

Nairing above Wario just outside of his Uair range is amazing. If he tries to hit you, he'll be hit by Nair>stuff. If he waits then you'll either hit him, reset the situation, or have good block pressure.

 

[Orion*]

Pointless argument is pointless! Who cares who thinks I'm smart or not. We all have our own tournament results

On a serious note, what do you guys usually ban vs Wario? I actually really dislike Brinstar just because if they get a good Waft or a good fsmash, i could lost the stock quick. But I'm not sure what I ban, because a lot of Wario's also play other characters. (I forget what I banned vs Malcolm, I was so tired that MLG weekend)

Might help me out if I play more beast Wario only mains!

@ xdeath i dont like being above people generally ._.

and tbh, warios good on every stage. its player preference

i personally dont mind brinstar vs wario

they will take you there or a nuetral most likely though

potentially frigate

 

[Exdeath]

Frigate is pretty good against Wario. The right side is amazing for l/edge guarding Wario and the lay out in general is pretty good for retreating B/being safe. The double ledge part makes it hard for Wario to get in from the center (Dtilt is a pretty much an anti-everything when Wario is in the center), the ground lay out on the center makes it harder for Wario to bait>punish with air dodges, and Wario isn't very fluid with the platform the way that he is on most stages. The only downsides that come to mind are the increased utility of Wario's Ftilt and the really the low ceiling, and even then the latter isn't too bad for me (personally) because I usually kill Wario off of the top or with a gimp.

 

[Waymas]

as a wario main all that i have to say its a campy mk **** wario ,an agresive mk will just get ***** by wario.

Yea retreating fairs and nairs with uairs will **** mostly every wario move, dair campin is also good against wario.

This is wario worst matchup 65-35 mk favor 60-40 at its best

 

[Kaffei]

wtf 65-35...

 

[Grump]

I would think 60-40 at best, very very best. In my own experience it's closer to 55-45 IF that. But I'm not a top-notch player (hopefully yet) so my odds aren't very accurate most likely.

 

[KassandraNova]

You are all crazy.
55:45 mk's favor. Jeeeez.

 

[ぱみゅ]

btw, MK's favourite stages doesn't help at all in this MU.
Wario can circle camp even better than MK does, so don't try stages that helps with that; probably even FD is good against Warios...

 

[etecoon]

this is why numbers are stupid

is there really such a difference between 55:45 and 6:4? everyone agrees that MK wins by a slight margin lol

 

[Kaffei]

I agree etecoon
I'd just say Slight advantage.

 

[Zelderu Maryoto]

Look, I know you Meta Knight's think a lot about Wario's fart, so here are a few facts about it. As a Wario main, I should know. While I realize that it is not very nice to the other Wario mains that I reveal something about him to one of his worst matchups, I just want to share my knowledge (and get better opponents!). Anyway, here they are:

The half charged fart has more knockback than the fully charged fart, but the fully charged fart gives more damage (42 %) than the half charged fart (23-33 %).

The 2/4 fart comes out in 15 seconds. The half charged fart comes out in 1 minute. The fully charged fart comes out in 1 minute and 49 seconds.

The timer for Wario's fart actually starts ticking once he enters the stage. So if he enters the stage before rather than after you, his fart is more charged.

Wario's half charged fart is getting stronger as it gets closer to fully charged. In other words, if he unleashes it after 1 minute, it gives 23 % damage. However, if he unleashes it after 1 minute and 48 seconds, it gives 33 % damage. Of course, the knockback also gets stronger.

 

[Pwneroni]

As a Wario main, I am proud to say that my most knowledgeable matchup is the Great Meta Knight. I have played MKs such as M2K (twice), Jem (once in a blue moon, btw Jem MM me at TP next weekend), Viviff T. Great Esq, Eggz and none other than Super Smash Twin t1mmy. That being said, it is my humble opinion that this matchup is very even. I would say 50-50 split down the middle.

MK has a lot of good stuff on Wario. He walls him out effectively, has frame advantage a lot of the time, very little lag to punish, and is great at gimping if ever in that situation. However, Wario has a ton of options at his disposal too. This matchup is going to be very spacey, because MK will be walling and Wario will be trying to find an opening. Now MK is fast and has little lag, but that doesn't mean he has absolutely none whatsoever. A teeny bit after MK's Fair, Dtilt, Ftilt, Nado, Dair, and Nair are all Wario needs to pull ahead

Wario's Fair comes out in 5 frames, and using his fast air mobility he can poke in between your hits for a bit of damage. If you are Dair camping, his Bair can go right through it from the side. If you are Dtilting his shield, the fat man can shield grab you if he times it perfectly. Both characters punish well out of shield. If Wario attacks your shield, you can Dair oos, UpB oos, even Nair oos for a great chunk of damage and even a kill. If you attack Wario's shield, it depends on what move you use. If you space a Fair perfectly, Wario can Fair you oos if he's frame perfect. If you Nair on his shield, he can Nair oos or even has time to shield drop Fsmash!

Don't forget the evil Frenchman's Ftilt. Think Wario has no range? Prepare to be surprised. Ftilt has a huge range and priority, going through Tornado and KOing from 130-150%. Ftilt has a small disjoint at the end, so it's a really great move to use against MK. However, if Wario gets too liberal with it, he's in for some trouble. It has a hurtbox on the end of it, so coupled with it's long startup time, you can either Back of hit Dsmash or Fsmash his fist to punish.

Everyone is scared of the fart, but nobody really understands how **** it truly is. The Smartfart (57 sec-1 min 53 sec) comes out in 4 frames. Yes, that's right, 4 frames for a nuclear powered explosion of death. It also has a huge hitbox! Using this hitbox, Wario can slip in a fart where nobody thought possible. It goes through Tornado if it hits the very top of the swirling vortex, Wario can dodge a Fair perfectly then move in and land a waft, perfect shield a shuttle loop and jump to Fart, and all sorts of other scenarios. Fart even goes through MK's Drill Rush.

One thing to note also: Wario's jump from the ground is 7 frames. 6 frame startup, airborne on the 7th frame. Are you freakin kidding me? That's only 1 frame quicker than BOWSER for spaghetti's sake! MK's frame advantage is more prominent in scenarios where this is taken into account. Such as.... Wario is on a platform, MK is under him. MK can Uair to pressure, and a tornado is generally safe to use because it will shield poke the fat man. He simply can't jump away in time because of his slow jump startup.

Sure MK has frame advantage. But the ever changing metagame of Super Smash Bros. Brawl is revealing that Wario can meet the challenge. The Wario metagame has grown leaps and bounds, is the MK metagame going to keep pace? Or will they be left behind while Wario grows into a combo **** machine?

 

[Eggz]

alex, i dont like the lack of glory you issued to my name

 

[Sago]

As a Wario main, I am proud to say that my most knowledgeable matchup is the Great Meta Knight.

.....Fart even goes through MK's Drill Rush.......

my first visit to the mk boards proved interested to say the least...

 

[Player-4]

Lol Sonic's Fair goes through Drill Rush. What's the big surprise?

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJ0vXE0R0qo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lDadYPfW-5k
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r7Ie5ErJ51A

Vids against (arguably) the best wario in germany from my latest tournament. Might be helpful, ionno.

 

[Lord Chair]

If you space a Fair perfectly, Wario can Fair you oos if he's frame perfect.

We already invalidated that statement on the Wario boards. Perfect fair on Wario's shield is unpunishable, please just stick to that rather than stating the opposite as a fact.

 

[V1CE]

Whatever you do... DO NOT CHARGE FOWARD SMASH AGAINST WARIO OR YOU WILL GET WAFTED... I learned this the hard way... ALSO just out space the wario and make him approach you... he can bite your nado and dair it on the top... up air beats his dair. DO NOT GLIDE TO THE LEDGE gliding is a free waft for wario... grab release to upairs at low damage and then grab release to up b or nair for the kill... FTILT out of shield if he foward smashes your shield. DO NOT attempt to grab his fsmash cause he can fsmash you again usually.. Also hmm dont dair camp... do not grab his bike and always stay above wario when he is recovering and prepare to hit him off his bike.

Pivot grab the wario if he is aggresively dairing...

ALSO when he does down throw dont try to tilt him right away cause he can buffer a jab or fsmash and it will hit you before your ftilt connects and it hits you cause you extend your hitbox with ftilt... that is all for now

 

[-LzR-]

That's some obvious and really useful information above.

 

[V1CE]

That's some obvious and really useful information above.

i dont really know this mu much... I just stated my observations from the tournament i was in on sat. I fought keith/Mongoose's wario in winers finals at a duke tourney in NC. He was really smart... and patient... i died early to a waft when charging an fsmash that then put him in the lead... I would like to learn more about this MU tho...

 

[Staco]

Dair camping works pretty well vs. Wario, if you use it in tactical good situations.

 

[-LzR-]

It's much more risky than usually so I it's not as useful as usual. Dair camping works for defense but hell no you won't time em out like that.

 

[Staco]

It's much more risky than usually so I it's not as useful as usual. Dair camping works for defense but hell no you won't time em out like that.

Warios UAir is pretty laggy in the air and he will have problems getting through it, if ur good at it.
Haven´t tested timing out yet.
And I wouldn´t try to time out like this in kill percentages (uair kills mad early, if you are in the air).

 

[SAX]

treat Wario like Kirby and box him out
if wario gets in he gets in and he hits really hard.
only time you should dash attack is if your certain u can punish landing lag
always keep your distance
if u tornado and wario is above you retreat your tornado immediately so his d-air doesn't hit your hurtbox
learn2land. if you're above wario and you're running out of jumps dont panic. downb is really good here
dont play into Wario's jump around air dodging game. he's baiting you to attack. just let him come to you.
if you're behind in %'s or stock the best way to approach wario is from below.
on a flat surface dont rush in. poke with f-tilt or d-tilt. once wario's shield starts dwindling go for the nado
wario's love to spotdodge into f-smash or fart
when recovering be careful if wario has a fart. dont mindlessly glide to the bottom and then come up towards the ledge.
pay attention to the timer. when wario's want to fart you can literally "feel it". wario's start doing a lot of sidestepping or empty jumps into air dodge trying to bait a whiff. PAY ATTENTION.
gimping him =

Walking is very important. walk and see what he does. Does he jump away, run away, try to short hop dair you, jump directly above you? try and see. space dtilts and fairs very well, wario get's boxed in very easy so don't use sloppy spacing. don't chase too hard in the air, his airdodges are one of the best, so bait the first one, then uair, nado, whatever your little heart desires. (the two i listed are recommended though, nair if he's at kill percent.)

wario mains are very predictable with their wafts. just walk in shield and he'll probably use it, seriously. if you chase them in the air and they airdodge you, they might waft you after. dont tornado onto the level from the ledge, wario ftilt goes through it and can kill around 110 I believe. never use grounded up b's vs wario, period.

if you don't get hit by waft, you should win.

don't use 3 or 9 o'clock DI vs his fsmash please.

also i didn't read any responses, so if my post sounds similar, it's just coincidence.

This. Took the words right out of my mouth.
Nothing aelse needs to be said about this MU. lol

 

[Orion*]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJ0vXE0R0qo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lDadYPfW-5k
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r7Ie5ErJ51A

Vids against (arguably) the best wario in germany from my latest tournament. Might be helpful, ionno.

Bloody looks better imo

also he beat gregs and blub >_> (despite losing to gregs in losers)

Whatever you do... DO NOT CHARGE FOWARD SMASH AGAINST WARIO OR YOU WILL GET WAFTED... I learned this the hard way...

You understand when wario does his foreverbillion frame jump you can release it and then just do something else

ALSO when he does down throw dont try to tilt him right away cause he can buffer a jab or fsmash and it will hit you before your ftilt connects and it hits you cause you extend your hitbox with ftilt... that is all for now

I didn't know this though, I do that occasionally and never get punished lol

I agree with omni/jem pretty much
Although I still like grounded upB

 

[Player-4]

I love Orion

 

[Orion*]

I love Orion

It's mutual<3

Except I'm a ***** and I love everybody

 

[AfroQT]

Hit him once and camp under a platform.

<- Great MK or Greatest MK?

 

[Masky]

..........