Meta Knight Q&A Thread

[FearTheMateria]

Shield campy Bowsers

Besides whorenadoing the sky, how do I stop him from crushing my approach? The Koopa King has surprisingly good range...

 

[Player-4]

About Fox, I agree it's no simple match up and is one of those match ups where I think it could possibly be 50-50. Also, Fox can't actually GR you, you have to be stupid and mash out, and if he does try to air release you it's usually a free Dsmash on Fox.

Against Bowser, just Nado lol. Seriously, that's all you really need to do. But as for other options, he has range but he's slow, so bait moves and punish accordingly. Getting behind him is really good too, and Nair eats him up.

 

[milesg2g]

What's the best thing to do out of sheild, when both opponents are shielding?

 

[ぱみゅ]

Shuttle Loop. Your opponent will be hitted for anrything he tries.

OR

Rollbackwards, so you'll be always safe.

 

[Pitzer]

Mk vs dk Please help, Also When play a Nade camping snake on smaller stages besides z catching what else should I do?

 

[milesg2g]

Mk vs dk Please help, Also When play a Nade camping snake on smaller stages besides z catching what else should I do?

We lost to the same DK main xD

DON

He's mad good!

 

[Kaffei]

Shuttle Loop. Your opponent will be hitted for anrything he tries.

OR

Rollbackwards, so you'll be always safe.

GSL is not safe unless you KNOW your opponent will release shield.

roll back is also not safe because if he reads u you will get punished.

I would just run the other direction to reset options/position

 

[milesg2g]

GSL is not safe unless you KNOW your opponent will release shield.

roll back is also not safe because if he reads u you will get punished.

I would just run the other direction to reset options/position

TY, I had actually done all the other options. They're all obvious solutions lol. I usually go for a grab before the opponent can get realize. But that'll get punished, so I'll spot dodge to a dsmash which has become such a habbit apparently. I don't lose cuz of it but my friends are saying it's getting predictable. Just wanted to know what some experienced MK's would say lol.


Btw kaff i saw you on the Apex pools. Hope you do well dude. Please Please do well lol

 

[theunabletable]

you have to be stupid and mash out, and if he does try to air release you it's usually a free Dsmash on Fox.

Tyrant's stupid?

Sure you can stop him from air releasing you, but he can pummel you a lot to try and bait you to start mashing, and can watch your hands to see when you do, then as soon as you do, he stops pummeling, and you air release.

It's not guarantee'd but it CAN work.

If a Bowser is shield camping you, grab him. Then he's ****ed and in the air, where you can juggle and tornado all day.

 

[Player-4]

What's the best thing to do out of sheild, when both opponents are shielding?

If you're both next to each other, you could grab, roll behind, roll away, Dair, or simply jump OoS. All options are good IMO and shouldn't get you punished, just mix it up and don't be predictable.

Tyrant's stupid?

Sure you can stop him from air releasing you, but he can pummel you a lot to try and bait you to start mashing, and can watch your hands to see when you do, then as soon as you do, he stops pummeling, and you air release.

It's not guarantee'd but it CAN work.

If a Bowser is shield camping you, grab him. Then he's ****ed and in the air, where you can juggle and tornado all day.

Table, you put too much stock in what "pro" MK's say and do. Granted a lot of people do, but it's like if they do it then we gotta do it too because it must be right. I mean a lot of times they are right in what they say and do, but not always, even "pros" make mistakes and are wrong about things. If you're at kill percents from an Upsmash and you start mashing out because you're afraid of the piddly damage that pummel will do, then yeah, you're stupid. Do you wanna take 10-12% or lose a stock? Weigh your options and be smart.

Okay, so you do mash out perfectly and stop mashing before they stop pummeling, then good job you saved yourself about 5-6% of damage, but if you don't, you're dead, and it was all for nothing. Be smart about what you're doing, too many people theory craft and that's fine, but theory crafting is in a perfect situation, and a lot of times it doesn't come through for you in your time of need, but in theory it should.

Weigh the good and the bad here for a second, and realize the bad heavily outweighs the good. It's a simple decision after that point.

I stick by what I said, no MK should be getting air released to Fox's Upsmash.

 

[ぱみゅ]

Another question that always bugs me out:
What's the best momentum canceller for MK to survive?

I randomly do Uair repeatedly, some Dairs, or Uair>Dair, but I'm really not sure which one is better.

 

[Kaffei]

uair + fast fall > Drill Rush

But that leaves you super vulnerable sooo..


uair + fast fall > jump like once or twice

randomly throwing out 234242423423423 uairs doesn't do anything lol

 

[ぱみゅ]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GzTTSyqXvd8

That's why I'm asking.... >_>

 

[Kragnor]

Thanks for all the fox input. Especially about not worrying about gaining minor percentages after being in the kill range of his Usmash. Should be common sense but never really occurred to me xD. Also, I've found being more cautious than usual and using a lot of F and Dtilts works wonders against fox.

Next issue is diddy. another one of my friends is great with diddy and our battles are really intense. I never know if it would be better for me to get the bananas off the stage or try to use them against him. Any other generic tips at fighting diddy would be appreciated

Also, does anyone ever use dimensional cape?

 

[theunabletable]

Okay, so you do mash out perfectly and stop mashing before they stop pummeling, then good job you saved yourself about 5-6% of damage, but if you don't, you're dead, and it was all for nothing. Be smart about what you're doing, too many people theory craft and that's fine, but theory crafting is in a perfect situation, and a lot of times it doesn't come through for you in your time of need, but in theory it should.

I’m not theory crafting here. I’m just saying that while Fox’s grab release > up smash is no where near guarantee’d, it happens often enough to be recognized as a practical setup.

It’s just a setup that you can bait. I’m trying to prevent ridiculous theorycraft like “Fox will never ever ever ever ever ever ever ever air release > up smash MK because no MK will ever attempt to mash out” because that’s simply wrong. It happens against even good MKs.

Weigh the good and the bad here for a second, and realize the bad heavily outweighs the good. It's a simple decision after that point. I stick by what I said, no MK should be getting air released to Fox's Upsmash.

While maybe it shouldn’t happen, in the real world where we aren’t theorycrafting to a ridiculous degree, it DOES happen.

I don’t care if theoretically it should never hit you. In practical play between two humans it’s happened often enough to high-level players who know the mechanics.

Whether or not MKs SHOULD get hit by it is irrelevant when MKs, even really good ones, get hit by it. There are a lot of things that if we’re playing technically perfect and not making big mistakes that would never happen, but they DO; because we’re human.

It’s not guaranteed but it happens enough in practical play, I’d say, for it to be considered a valid kill mixup.

@Kragnor: Dimensional Cape can actually be a really situationally good recovery. It's great in the ditto because if you do it at the right angle and wait until the right time (which you can do by sitting in the air and up airing), it's really safe.

And sometimes as a bait, too. A lot of people don't know about auto cancelling the DC (without the attack) from a platform so that there's no lag, so as a possible mixup you can try auto cancelling a DC off a platform, and since there's no lag, shield or spotdodge or whatever when they try and punish you, and punish them in return.

I wouldn't do it more than like once, though, lol. It's kinda like throwing in a doop walk into your approach. If you're playing someone good, they usually won't fall for it more than once.

 

[Player-4]

Table, you're making no sense, just don't mash and you won't get hit by it, it's very very simple. There seriously is zero reason why you should get air released to Usmash.

 

[Pitzer]

So yeah I got ignored Thanks guys

 

[Player-4]

So yeah I got ignored Thanks guys

Calm down, your Q is still on the this page, and we have a whole match up discussion on Diddy ATM so go read over that. I personally need help in the match up as well.

 

[Ragnar0k]

Fox could force an air break regardless of whether or not you're mashing out. Why are you guys saying not to?

 

[Player-4]

Fox could force an air break regardless of whether or not you're mashing out. Why are you guys saying not to?

Uhhh what? No, he can't. You have to mash to be air released by Fox.

 

[IIIIRICK]

Mk vs dk Please help, Also When play a Nade camping snake on smaller stages besides z catching what else should I do?

I dont have much expereience with DK but my friend recently picked him up and hes already beating me so ill share what i know. Tornado is a very good move to use on DK BUT wtahc out because he can do that super punch (forgot the name), and it will go right through tornado. gimping is fairly easy, dair willk **** him off the stage but it might take awhile cause he is a heavy weight and wont die to a couple dairs. Dk out ranges you with tilts so you have to be caareful when approaching, a good DK will try and bait a tornado and then super punch you, you could very well die at 50% depending on the stage. Overall tornado is a great move in the MU but you have to be smart with it, and gimp his fat *** lol.

As far as snake goes on a smaller map i just tyr and look for an opening, MK is fast so you should be able to get into his face quite easily if your on a map such as brinstar.

 

[Ragnar0k]

Since when do you only air break if your mashing? I thought you air broke if they weren't pummeling you when you broke out. Can't he just not pummel to let you air break?

 

[Player-4]

I dont have much expereience with DK but my friend recently picked him up and hes already beating me so ill share what i know. Tornado is a very good move to use on DK BUT wtahc out because he can do that super punch (forgot the name), and it will go right through tornado. gimping is fairly easy, dair willk **** him off the stage but it might take awhile cause he is a heavy weight and wont die to a couple dairs. Dk out ranges you with tilts so you have to be caareful when approaching, a good DK will try and bait a tornado and then super punch you, you could very well die at 50% depending on the stage. Overall tornado is a great move in the MU but you have to be smart with it, and gimp his fat *** lol.

As far as snake goes on a smaller map i just tyr and look for an opening, MK is fast so you should be able to get into his face quite easily if your on a map such as brinstar.

He's talking about Diddy, not Donkey

Since when do you only air break if your mashing? I thought you air broke if they weren't pummeling you when you broke out. Can't he just not pummel to let you air break?

MK's feet have to be off the ground to air break, you have to mash out to air break, otherwise you'll always ground break against Fox. Fox can't air release Wario either, which is why it's not a bad match up for Wario.

But in the cases of like Snake and Marth and a few other characters that make MK air break, you'll notice they hold him off the ground, his feet are not touching the ground while he's being held. But like MK or Fox air releasing other MKs ONLY happens because the MK mashed out, otherwise it's a ground release 100% of the time, except for the occasions that you grab him over an edge where his feet obviously aren't touching the ground.

 

[Pitzer]

I was actually asking about Donkey kong. Diddy I can do well againist with my other character.

 

[Ragnar0k]

So MK's struggling animation actually takes his feet off the ground against certain characters to make him air break when he would otherwise ground break if they didn't pummel?

 

[IIIIRICK]

I was actually asking about Donkey kong. Diddy I can do well againist with my other character.

did you read my post? lol

 

[Player-4]

I was actually asking about Donkey kong. Diddy I can do well againist with my other character.

Honestly, I just skimmed your first post and saw "DK" and "z catching" so I put 2 and 2 together

*shrug*

So MK's struggling animation actually takes his feet off the ground against certain characters to make him air break when he would otherwise ground break if they didn't pummel?

I don't think mashing actually takes his feet off the ground to where you can see it, but never the less it does make you air break once you mash, and it doesn't matter if you mash and then stop mashing before you release, because once you initiate the mash, you will air break

 

[milesg2g]

Guy's which ways do you DI out of Wario's Dair?

 

[theunabletable]

Table, you're making no sense, just don't mash and you won't get hit by it, it's very very simple. There seriously is zero reason why you should get air released to Usmash.

Then you'll take like 12% every grab from just pummels, which'll add up quick. Note: I'm not saying mash your *** off on every grab and air release every single time; I'm saying that sometimes attempting to mash to reduce your damage taken is a good option to keep in mind, but may lead to getting hit by a kill move. It happens in practical play every once in a while for a reason.

Whatever, it's irrelevant, really.

 

[-LzR-]

Guy's which ways do you DI out of Wario's Dair?

I would go up and then left or right. The Wario player can guess and keep you in, but you gotta mix it up.

Also, when I am sent flying, I usually uair > jump and then proceed to glide.
I know the glide doesn't help, but it's kind of a habit. I usually forget to fastfall too.

How much longer could I live if I uair > fastfall > jump as many times as needed?

 

[BIGM1994]

Guys i really wanna know this. Ok in the wario vs mk MU is there any percent or way that mk can grab wario that he will have and automatic grab release? Also can a good wario get out of a grab release and avoid it from happening?

 

[Kaffei]

Guys i really wanna know this. Ok in the wario vs mk MU is there any percent or way that mk can grab wario that he will have and automatic grab release? Also can a good wario get out of a grab release and avoid it from happening?

If MK grabs Wario in a way that Wario's feet is not touching the ground (such as at the ledge with Wario off stage), Wario will air release.

If the MK grabs Wario, and Wario starting mashing out, Wario will air release.
If the MK grabs Wario and the Wario does not mash out, he will not air release.

 

[BIGM1994]

ahh interesting thanks alot

 

[milesg2g]

Need help w/ the Pika MU badly lol

 

[Player-4]

I need help with the Oli match up pretty badly, but after seeing what went down at Apex, I think a lot of MKs do

 

[milesg2g]

I need help with the Oli match up pretty badly, but after seeing what went down at Apex, I think a lot of MKs do

**** that.

I'll use Ness on that MU even though I don't believe it's in his favor.

 

[IIIIRICK]

the olimar MU is ********. I have a tourny in a weeks so ill ask my friend (who mains olimar is ranked 3rd on the PR) more about the MU. He should be able to shead some light seeing as MK vs Oli is prob a big one for him.

 

[KOOMAN]

Can anyone help me with the ice climbers mu? I beat my friends ic but barley any tips?

 

[Kaffei]

Dair camp. Space them perfectly. Tornado can be good but be very very careful.
Fsmash pokes nana. use fthrow not dthrow

split up nana and kill her.

That is all I know.

 

[Player-4]

Dair camp. Space them perfectly. Tornado can be good but be very very careful.
Fsmash pokes nana. use fthrow not dthrow

split up nana and kill her.

That is all I know.

That's pretty much it.

I hate fighting ICs because it's all about how perfect you have to play rather than them just out playing you