Melee will lose steam eventually. Its just a matter of time.

[LovinMitts]

Its not that Melee will become unpopular, its that it will become inaccessible. In other words, EXPENSIVE. Decent controllers go for 30-40 bucks on amazon now. In a decade, unless the smash community moves on for whatever reason, the price will go extremely high. The game itself isn't getting any cheaper either, 40 bucks for the game disc itself. It'll probably go up as time goes on as well. Eventually, the entry cost of competitive Melee will be so high, the only hopes of a new player joining the community are that they happen to have the game and a decent controller lying around, or that a new player happens to have enough cash to get a decent controller. Unless another Melee-type smash game is released or it is rereleased on a format that won't frameskip, Melee will die out.

TL:DR: Controllers and the Melee disk are getting expensive, future players will be alienated by cost, competitive smash dies unless Melee is rereleased or another Melee-style game is made.

 

[Zylo]

New controllers are coming out and there's the possibility of a remake for the wii u coming out. Also, hacked melee exists. Cost of equipment isn't going to kill the scene.

 

[LovinMitts]

New controllers are coming out and there's the possibility of a remake for the wii u coming out. Also, hacked melee exists. Cost of equipment isn't going to kill the scene.

But larger tournaments like MLG or EVO likely won't support it due to copyright concerns. (If in fact what you are reffering to is along the lines of USB loading Melee)

 

[Watofu]

Exactly, take Magic the gathering for instance, it's so cheap to play compared to melee which is why it's so successful

 

[The_Burn]

But larger tournaments like MLG or EVO likely won't support it due to copyright concerns. (If in fact what you are reffering to is along the lines of USB loading Melee)

Big tournaments won't need to support hacked versions because they aren't the new people getting involved in the scene who you said have trouble finding copies of the game. They will continue to rely on older members of the community bringing in set-ups or prepared set-ups like the Smash vault.

New players however can use dolphin or hacked versions of the game to ensure a low cost introduction to the game ($20 for an adapter and $40 for a new controller is way cheaper then $400 for a new system, $60 for a controller and $60 for a new game)

 

[EPsilon933]

Melee will gradually die out

MLG and EVO will want to stream Smash 4 because it's the new game and floods of casual players with a bit of interest in the competitive scene will want to watch it online because it's new and more relevant. Melee is 13 years old. It's more enticing for new players in competitive gaming to choose games with thriving tournament scenes. Smash 4 will be very popular and Melee won't be so much. Some top players will enjoy the newness of Smash 4 and play it instead to win bigger prize money. There'll be feedback loops making Smash 4 the primary competitive Smash game

Melee can not survive long in its current state. It needs to be played on CRTs and what new player would seriously want an old ugly TV with bad picture quality. They aren't being made anymore and they're gradually breaking. They're also a difficult hassle to bring to tournaments

Sure there'll be Melee's super-dedicated player-base, but it won't be anything comparable to Smash 4's flood of new players. Melee could release on the Wii U virtual console, but it won't get a lot of attention because it won't get hyped in the casual side of the community

 

[The_Burn]

Melee will gradually die out

MLG and EVO will want to stream Smash 4 because it's the new game and floods of casual players with a bit of interest in the competitive scene will want to watch it online because it's new and more relevant. Melee is 13 years old. It's more enticing for new players in competitive gaming to choose games with thriving tournament scenes. Smash 4 will be very popular and Melee won't be so much. Some top players will enjoy the newness of Smash 4 and play it instead to win bigger prize money. There'll be feedback loops making Smash 4 the primary competitive Smash game

Melee can not survive long in its current state. It needs to be played on CRTs and what new player would seriously want an old ugly TV with bad picture quality. They aren't being made anymore and they're gradually breaking. They're also a difficult hassle to bring to tournaments

Sure there'll be Melee's super-dedicated player-base, but it won't be anything comparable to Smash 4's flood of new players. Melee could release on the Wii U virtual console, but it won't get a lot of attention because it won't get hyped in the casual side of the community

You are implying that people will stop watching melee, which is what got these companies to sponsor melee at their events in the first place. However there is empirically very little chance of that happening, look at what Brawl did the scene -- brought some new people into the scene for sure, made a few people switch but overall didn't kill the melee scene.
The same thing happened with BW when SC2 came out -- some low calibur players left the scene, the scene gained alot of traction with new players and viewers, meanwhile the BW scene was (and still is) strong.
DotA 2 we again see similar interaction with the DotA scene -- some shift however it too is still strong

Further it takes more than a new flashy game to keep peoples attention -- look at Titanfall, everyone was calling it the CoD killer, new generation of FPS, but it lacked depth, people got bored and it currently is under Skyrim for viewership on twitch. If Smash 4 has the depth of melee and other competitive games we may see a similar situation to SC2, a NEW community that may overshadow the old community, but certainly not the eradication of the old community.

Also CRTs actually (theoretically) have better picture quality then LCDs because they are analog display instead of pixels...

 

[EPsilon933]

You are implying that people will stop watching melee, which is what got these companies to sponsor melee at their events in the first place. However there is empirically very little chance of that happening, look at what Brawl did the scene -- brought some new people into the scene for sure, made a few people switch but overall didn't kill the melee scene.
The same thing happened with BW when SC2 came out -- some low calibur players left the scene, the scene gained alot of traction with new players and viewers, meanwhile the BW scene was (and still is) strong.
DotA 2 we again see similar interaction with the DotA scene -- some shift however it too is still strong

Further it takes more than a new flashy game to keep peoples attention -- look at Titanfall, everyone was calling it the CoD killer, new generation of FPS, but it lacked depth, people got bored and it currently is under Skyrim for viewership on twitch. If Smash 4 has the depth of melee and other competitive games we may see a similar situation to SC2, a NEW community that may overshadow the old community, but certainly not the eradication of the old community.

Also CRTs actually (theoretically) have better picture quality then LCDs because they are analog display instead of pixels...

The rush of sponsorships happened after EVO, when the biggest fighting game tournament happened, streaming the game to 135,000 viewers online during grand finals. What happens when Smash 4 gets streamed at EVO and MLG? Would they want to stream Melee or 4? I'm not implying that people will stop watching Melee. I'm saying that it won't be the mainly watched smash game. no, wait, my 1st sentence was an exaggerated sellable title

Brawl brought in A LOT of new players to the scene. MD/NOVA got 40 entrant locals and 100 entrant regionals easily (just 1 case region example)

Titanfall never had any competitive scene. It didn't have any organization keeping the game alive. I understand the importance of a game being fun and deep, but that's not the biggest factor in determining the life of a competitive game. Brawl is a very bad fighting game and it's still alive. Although struggling now. Despite being so bad, it kept its status of being the main competitive Smash game until sometime in 2012 if we can pinpoint an exact moment. 4 years of competitive life is pretty good, especially for a game so bad. It had an active tournament scene to keep players playing

I don't believe the CRT quality sentence. Per pixel maybe, but LCDs/LEDs have more pixels

 

[Binx]

Brawl is much less exciting to watch, even for casual viewers because its so slow and campy, Melee is clearly the better game based purely on spectating pleasure.

Smash 4 is looking like it will be have similar pace to brawl which will leave it with the same problem. I hope that the game is good and is fun but if it is clearly not a good competitive game I really hope the smash community as a whole will just let it be what it is instead of trying to force it over melee again.

I'm just hoping that Brawl 4 will be the side event at the start unlike last time until we have more time with it to see if it can carry itself.

 

[Twitchy]

the only hopes of a new player joining the community are that they happen to have the game and a decent controller lying around

I am one of the (I feel like) many that got into the game this way. In fact, most of the players in the smash scene at my school entered along the same means too. I'm the only one out of the some 20 kids that even owns the new white gc controller, they're all using the silver and purple gc launch controllers.

You have to remember that Melee was extremely popular at launch. Everybody and their mother has played the game. I genuinely have never met a gamer that has not played a smash game.

 

[MookieRah]

Nothing against you on a personal level Epsilon but I'm getting really tired of your gloom and doom stories of melee. The problem with your argument is that you are comparing this situation with pre-existing situations, yet those cases compared to smash are like apples and oranges.

Melee's popularity is surging despite it being 13 years old, and is currently more popular than it's sequel. This is entirely unprecedented and it shows that there is something about this game and it's community that is different. While that doesn't mean that melee will survive Sm4sh, there is plenty of reason to believe that it will.

I do think that it is a matter of time before Melee does run out of steam. I find it really hard to believe that it could survive the 5th smash instalment, but I still think there is at least a good 3-5 years left in melee.

 

[Twitchy]

Melee's popularity is surging despite it being 13 years old, and is currently more popular than it's sequel. This is entirely unprecedented and it shows that there is something about this game and it's community that is different. While that doesn't mean that melee will survive Sm4sh, there is plenty of reason to believe that it will.

I agree. It might have the potential to be like Counter-Strike, over 15 years later and people are still playing it competitively.

 

[Zylo]

Guys.... m2k said it has 20 more years. This thread has been proven false.

 

[rsr2]

Exactly, take Magic the gathering for instance, it's so cheap to play compared to melee which is why it's so successful

Magic is not cheap. Especially Competitively then it gets absurd over time.

 

[Twitchy]

Magic is not cheap. Especially Competitively then it gets absurd over time.

yeah I've been told on multiple occasions by many ex-magic players that it is quite pay-to-win

 

[Stevo]

sarcasm is a thing

 

[Twitchy]

lack of kappas makes it hard to understand sometimes

 

[Thor]

Relax, Melee will live on. I was at a tournament two days ago and I heard two guys discussing Smash 4. Then I heard this first line, said my thing, and got this response, no joke.

"The new Smash game is so bad."
"But it's not even out yet. Why do you think it's so bad."
"It's not Melee."

And yes, I'm serious.

The true-blooded ******** ("it's not Melee therefore it's a bad game/worse than Melee") will keep Melee alive for sure, and plenty of people who enjoy the game still will play it and keep the scene alive and well. Sure, tournaments will run longer because there'll be Melee, PM, AND Smash 4, but if Smash 4 isn't Melee-like enough it may just go the way of Brawl (which would sadden me twice over now) and PM + Melee will continue to be the most popular SSB tournament events.

EDIT: And you think Melee has problems? I wish Brawl just had doomsday prophecies while I could (relatively) easily find tournaments to enter...

 

[MookieRah]

The true-blooded ********

You are in no way better than this guy if you say stuff like that, you know?

Also, the claim you are making is that the only reason Melee is still here is because of the super-hardcore fanboys. That isn't accurate, and the reason why that isn't the case can be seen in most other games that move onto the newest game in a series. There was a hardcore fanbase of Halo that disliked Halo 2, but the hardcore Halo community died shortly after. There are several other examples of this in competitive gaming as well.

When you make statements like the above are ignoring the fact that the main reason Melee is still played to this day is because it is a really, really good game.

 

[Stevo]

lack of kappas makes it hard to understand sometimes

I agree. Though, in this case I would say it was pretty obvious since Magic the Gathering is well known for being very expensive to play.


As for the topic of this thread, I don't see why this is even worth discussing. Melee is as popular as ever right now and has already survived Brawl. If it dies out it dies out. I doubt it will be for a long time, but if it does, it will be for a good reason.

EIther way, it won't be for the reasons you gave, and also, who cares? Everything will die out eventually. No reason to discuss this unless you don't like melee and are trying to convince people to give up on it now since "melee will lose steam eventually". If that is the case, you picked the wrong timing since Melee is going really strong right now.

 

[The_Burn]

I don't believe the CRT quality sentence. Per pixel maybe, but LCDs/LEDs have more pixels

CRTs don't have pixels, they display the image rather than an array of pixels that looks like the image.

It's like film photography vs digital photography, film will always be the better quality because it doesn't rely on pixels, it can just display the true image

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Relax, Melee will live on. I was at a tournament two days ago and I heard two guys discussing Smash 4. Then I heard this first line, said my thing, and got this response, no joke.

"The new Smash game is so bad."
"But it's not even out yet. Why do you think it's so bad."
"It's not Melee."

And yes, I'm serious.

The true-blooded ******** ("it's not Melee therefore it's a bad game/worse than Melee") will keep Melee alive for sure, and plenty of people who enjoy the game still will play it and keep the scene alive and well. Sure, tournaments will run longer because there'll be Melee, PM, AND Smash 4, but if Smash 4 isn't Melee-like enough it may just go the way of Brawl (which would sadden me twice over now) and PM + Melee will continue to be the most popular SSB tournament events.

EDIT: And you think Melee has problems? I wish Brawl just had doomsday prophecies while I could (relatively) easily find tournaments to enter...

I would heavily disagree with your one choice word, but you are right in essence. The melee enthusiast will keep the game alive for a long time.

However, I expect the same will occur for Brawl. So many more copies of it were distributed that people will find time to like and play it over time. The problem is simply those players end up getting scattered rather than condensed into a small area. Our region is sort of bad for Brawl with it being underpopulated and consists mainly of people who were in the scene before Brawl came out.

Plus, some people can be joking about things without being completely serious about what they are saying. No idea since I was not there. I have run into a good number of people who dislike some game themselves, but not the people playing it. But, there are simply some... idiots out there who I would just avoid.

Otherwise, I do not expect any of the smash games to die out completely. However, Brawl I do think will turn out like smash64 with relatively little attention shown its way. Smash4 will attract everyone to play it since people will still want to try it out at sometime. Melee is different enough from brawl/smash4 it seems for now to not see itself being replaced by anything other than potentially P:M. Brawl I expect a replacement for simply because it seems as if smash4 corrects all the mistakes that I believe Brawl had that kept it from being exceptional for its direction of gameplay. Ledges and tripping are sort of the bane of brawl in my opinion. However, smash4 is still in development and its not the first time that some games have seen some huge changes before final release.

You are in no way better than this guy if you say stuff like that, you know?

Also, the claim you are making is that the only reason Melee is still here is because of the super-hardcore fanboys. That isn't accurate, and the reason why that isn't the case can be seen in most other games that move onto the newest game in a series. There was a hardcore fanbase of Halo that disliked Halo 2, but the hardcore Halo community died shortly after. There are several other examples of this in competitive gaming as well.

When you make statements like the above are ignoring the fact that the main reason Melee is still played to this day is because it is a really, really good game.

Again, I disagree with the name calling, but no where has Thor said this was the sole reason. Its simply one reason for why the game probably will not die out completely.

 

[TheGoat]

LOL@ all the butthurt brawl fanboys trolling. Mad because you're game lasted 5 years and is gonna be completely forgotten when smash 4 comes out?

Melee is growing and continues to grow. Not die off, not stagnate, but actually GROW. I see new people at local tournaments all the time. There are even hundreds if not thousands of people that play the game casually, as a party game at home, or play 1-p uploading vids to youtube etc.

Melee is a good game. Short of a few minor changes, it is essentially a perfect game. Look at Doom. Quality games last, and their ****ty ripoffs die. Cry more.

 

[Twitchy]

Also it is quite the blessing that it is impossible for Nintendo to update or patch Melee. A lot of competitive games fall off or have people quit due to bad updates from the developer.

For example, the competitive Team Fortress 2 scene has been on its last legs for years, and after a recent major nerf of a certain class by valve, the game's comp scene is almost certainly on its deathbed now.

Then you have games like World of Warcraft where players spend thousands upon thousands of hours on a particular class of character, then Blizzard nerfs it to the ground and everybody that plays that class quits.

And perhaps a perfect example is RuneScape, which went from the most popular MMO in the world, with well over a million players online at any given time, to a complete failure with no more than a hundred thousand players online during prime time. This particular game fell from its extreme popularity because of a bunch of bad content releases and economy-changing updates that nobody in the community actually wanted, but Jagex didn't listen.

Melee, being a solid-state release, has never and will never be susceptible to this kind of change. This means that players who sink hours and hours into the game will never have their time wasted, will never be cheated out of their main and have to play something different, and will never feel they have to quit for any reason other than they simply get tired of the game.

 

[noran san]

^ hallauyer and amen

 

[Deleted member 245254]

Also it is quite the blessing that it is impossible for Nintendo to update or patch Melee. A lot of competitive games fall off or have people quit due to bad updates from the developer.

For example, the competitive Team Fortress 2 scene has been on its last legs for years, and after a recent major nerf of a certain class by valve, the game's comp scene is almost certainly on its deathbed now.

Then you have games like World of Warcraft where players spend thousands upon thousands of hours on a particular class of character, then Blizzard nerfs it to the ground and everybody that plays that class quits.

And perhaps a perfect example is RuneScape, which went from the most popular MMO in the world, with well over a million players online at any given time, to a complete failure with no more than a hundred thousand players online during prime time. This particular game fell from its extreme popularity because of a bunch of bad content releases and economy-changing updates that nobody in the community actually wanted, but Jagex didn't listen.

Melee, being a solid-state release, has never and will never be susceptible to this kind of change. This means that players who sink hours and hours into the game will never have their time wasted, will never be cheated out of their main and have to play something different, and will never feel they have to quit for any reason other than they simply get tired of the game.

This is such backwards logic, considering Melee could use many updates to its balance if it were even possible.

 

[Cassio]

When you make statements like the above are ignoring the fact that the main reason Melee is still played to this day is because it is a really, really good game.

Its a reason, but its not the primary reason.

The melee scene will eventually cause itself to lose steam unfortunately because of its entitlement.

 

[Deleted member]

who cares, just play melee

2014 is the biggest year so far

this game *****

 

[Cassio]

Im surprised of all the words the boards censor **** still isnt censored.

 

[The_Burn]

This is such backwards logic, considering Melee could use many updates to its balance if it were even possible.

In whose opinion? The millions of casual players who played and loved the game?
The thousands of competitive players who felt -- get this -- exactly the same?

A game not being "balanced" encourages exploration of deeper mechanics which drives a game to not only be more complex but more fun to watch, players have to perform inputs with extremely high skill caps which builds the hype (look at every Amsa shield drop at MLG, the crowd went wild)

The melee scene will eventually kill itself unfortunately because of its entitlement.

A very small part of the melee community is entitled, when I went my first smash tournament the only negative things I heard where actually directed at melee from brawl players, with the vast majority of people playing both. Personally I think both are equally valid games, though I prefer watching melee.

At the very least, in this thread it seems like brawl players are the ones predicting the end of melee, and if you come to a board dedicated to melee and talk trash on the game people love they are going to have the negative reaction that you are calling "entitlement"

 

[Cassio]

A very small part of the melee community is entitled, when I went my first smash tournament the only negative things I heard where actually directed at melee from brawl players, with the vast majority of people playing both. Personally I think both are equally valid games, though I prefer watching melee.

At the very least, in this thread it seems like brawl players are the ones predicting the end of melee, and if you come to a board dedicated to melee and talk trash on the game people love they are going to have the negative reaction that you are calling "entitlement"

In spite of their opinions Brawl players dont rarely hate on melee. In any case, I was speaking generally. Just look at the melee communities reaction to MLG.

 

[The_Burn]

In spite of their opinions Brawl players dont rarely hate on melee. In any case, I was speaking generally. Just look at the melee communities reaction to MLG.

I would agree that it is a small portion of the brawl community that hates on melee just as it's a small portion of the melee community that hates on brawl, smash 4, ect.

Don't let a small but vocal portion of the community cloud your vision of the people you will actually meet playing either game because for the most part both communities are excepting and kind, with a lack of hate.

I believe for the most part the melee community was EXTREMELY positive about MLG, even if production quality wasn't perfect and their streaming platform is a little archaic compared to twitch I think everyone was honestly excited to have more high level melee to watch -- I sure know I was.

 

[MookieRah]

Its a reason, but its not the primary reason.

The melee scene will eventually kill itself unfortunately because of its entitlement.

Wow, so a handful of idiots post really stupid things in comments regarding Sm4sh so therefore the logical conclusion is that the entire fanbase is toxic.

Also, PM wouldn't exist if people didn't just love Melee. So, if anything, melee fans are contributing far more to the smash community than any other group.

In spite of their opinions Brawl players dont rarely hate on melee.

Brawl players hate on melee players roughly as much as melee players hate on brawl players. You do realise that all you have said so far is just contributing to this right? Both sides really exaggerate the negativity on the other.

 

[The_Burn]

You do realise that all you have said so far is just contributing to this right? Both sides really exaggerate the negativity on the other.

Yeah these sentences sum up this thread pretty well

 

[Deleted member 245254]

In whose opinion? The millions of casual players who played and loved the game?
The thousands of competitive players who felt -- get this -- exactly the same?

A game not being "balanced" encourages exploration of deeper mechanics which drives a game to not only be more complex but more fun to watch, players have to perform inputs with extremely high skill caps which builds the hype (look at every Amsa shield drop at MLG, the crowd went wild)

You don't make any sense at all.

Balance and skill caps/skill floors are mutually exclusive concepts. If anything, lack of balance can really only be compared to a heightened skill floor for only CERTAIN players who happen to play characters on the fortunate side of that balance.

People don't like melee because it's imbalanced. They like it because it's a fighting game of incredible depth of mechanics and it's a bunch of Nintendo characters beating each other up. I'd really like you to quote for me anywhere where someone states that imbalance is a good thing in Smash. Preposterous.

 

[Cassio]

Wow, so a handful of idiots post really stupid things in comments regarding Sm4sh so therefore the logical conclusion is that the entire fanbase is toxic.

Brawl players hate on melee players roughly as much as melee players hate on brawl players. You do realise that all you have said so far is just contributing to this right? Both sides really exaggerate the negativity on the other.

Brawl players only complain about melee players consistent hate towards Brawl. Its not really the same thing. And its not just smash 4 stuff. I admire both yours and Burns positive attitude but unfortunately it doesnt match what appears to be really going on lately.

Also, PM wouldn't exist if people didn't just love Melee. So, if anything, melee fans are contributing far more to the smash community than any other group.

I mostly dont disagree with what you said, but that doesnt conflict with what I said either.

 

[fwb]

"20 more years"

Need it be questioned?

 

[Garquille14]

For example, the competitive Team Fortress 2 scene has been on its last legs for years, and after a recent major nerf of a certain class by valve, the game's comp scene is almost certainly on its deathbed now.

I wouldn't say it's on its last legs when there's no shortage of people to play with and against at all skill levels
also that nerf was just reverted

 

[MookieRah]

Brawl players only complain about melee players consistent hate towards Brawl. Its not really the same thing. And its not just smash 4 stuff. I admire both yours and Burns positive attitude but unfortunately it doesnt match what appears to be really going on lately.

Again, you are letting the vocal minority of a group dictate your outlook on the majority of the melee fan base. From what you have said so far it seems like you are of the attitude that a pro-melee player is guilty of this stereotype until they are proven innocent.

It's also a bad thing that both groups segregate themselves and fester hate. This festering explodes in threads like this. Then the most passionate members of each group come out in force to defend or attack the other side, perpetuating the stereotypes that are already in place.

Brawl players only complain about melee players consistent hate towards Brawl.

This is something that, as a pro-melee player, annoys me to no end. By making this statement you are claiming the morale high ground and stating that your side is better because your dislike of the opposing side is somehow more justified. You are essentially blaming the problem on the melee players, which completely ignores the history of why this community was divided by Brawl. No side is "better", and neither side has a good reason to hate the other, and neither side has a morale high ground.

If you truly want the hate to go away you have to realise this. There is nothing wrong with defending Brawl from melee haters, but you won't change anyone's opinions by implying the blame falls on the opposite side in your arguments.

 

[The_Burn]

You don't make any sense at all.

Balance and skill caps/skill floors are mutually exclusive concepts. If anything, lack of balance can really only be compared to a heightened skill floor for only CERTAIN players who happen to play characters on the fortunate side of that balance.

People don't like melee because it's imbalanced. They like it because it's a fighting game of incredible depth of mechanics and it's a bunch of Nintendo characters beating each other up. I'd really like you to quote for me anywhere where someone states that imbalance is a good thing in Smash. Preposterous.

You completely missed my point, when people feel as though they are at a disadvantage they don't whimper and pout and cry about how unfair the game is, instead they look deep into the game for mechanics they can exploit to bring their character up to snuff with the meta of the game, for example fox isn't a broken character -- he just happened to have a skill set that was/is synchronized with the metagame better than any other character. That's why the phenomena of "fox killers" came and changed the meta to heighten the negative aspects of fox's skillset, and diminish the positives (I mean how long had it been since a fox had won a major before MLG?).

You may call this imbalanced, however this is going to happen no matter what the metagame is -- there will always be a character who is more developed or more adept at performing a task at a point in time. The "balance" you want is impossible because you aren't taking into account INDIVIDUAL advancement of each character. That is main reason you will never see a game with 12+ characters where all of them are viable -- they all have to advance independently, and in the context of the current metagame. It's not that melee isn't balanced, just that currently the game is played in a way that favors characters with move sets that allow them to play a certain style.