Melee Tournament Mafia! Game Over, Town Wins!

[Beat!]

BeatStick response for my #591 portion about on Gord?

Well...

Look at this instance.

He says I have no opinions and stances, then he changes to, "He does but it's just nothing" Which I disproved this already at this point. If people want to say I don't contribute, I don't see what the hell people can say I am not contributing.

**** like this is what makes me think he's not scum, he's just being misread. almost positive that if a gorf lynch goes down, it'll be a mislynch.

The first part doesn't in any way explain how it can't be noobtown.

In the second part you actually say the opposite, lol.

You do expand on it in this post:

He starts flip flopping on why I am scum.

"No content" turns into "He had content but it's nothing"

I don't see the difference.

But his case on me is not a good one when he gets called out on the same crap he called me out for.

That doesn't make any sense. Being hypocritical doesn't equal being wrong.

It's clear he isn't getting frustrated with people in the way Adum is calling him for. This is not obvious like Ran was in RE4. In RE4 Ran made it obvious his tells were town, claiming princess on what looked like to him a dayvig shot, genuine scum hunting.

What do he have here, admitting to skimming and glancing over posts, changing cases on people so they fit his argument. This isn't noob town, this is scum.

Like, I don't see how you can make the conclusions so easily in this part. You start off with an observation, and immediately interpret it as scummy as opposed to noobtown.

I'm not saying you're wrong about Gord being scum, but I don't think your reasoning holds much merit.

What's his meta? Explain for those who don't know, please.

What AM's said. Sitting on the sideline. Being wishy-washy. A lot of posts basically consisting of "this is bad, but it's not that bad, but I'm not sure what to make of it".

Like this:

]I said I thought his case was legit in a sense that he was scum hunting, but I disagreed that his case deserves you to be lynched even if I still am a bit skeptical about it. There are other players who should be lynched over you and I think you being a princess is more plauable than I did earlier toDay due to your reasoning in your #385

Why did you believe AM's Princess claim initially?

Because I really really really don't see why scum AM would put that much attention on himself that early. Nothing I've read so far has convinced me otherwise.


Full list of scum reads/stances when I've reread. Expect it in a couple of hours.

 

[Lil Jon]

@Beat What's RR's town meta? Please not "just the opposite." What games are this meta based on?

I hate pursuing meta-reads but whatever.

@RR Can you link me to a recent scum and town game of yours that aren't any of the following: Bingo, Dexter, Resi 4, Droom. Thanks.

 

[#HBC | J]

Don't need to if you don't want to J. I'm pretty sure you're town and even if you're scum I doubt I could read you just from D1.

Nononono that's not what I meant at all. At the current time I am only in one game, this game, and I was going to devote some time doing some things but now that a timer has been put on the day and a flip from someone I had as a null.

 

[Lil Jon]

Ohhh. I thought you meant IRL J. My apologies.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

The first part doesn't in any way explain how it can't be noobtown.

In the second part you actually say the opposite, lol.

That was a misquote from AM, I cut off the quote tags at the wrong spot, revaluate the first statement please.

You do expand on it in this post:



I don't see the difference.

No content is not the same as limited, he tried passing off the first and then melding it into what others where thinking.

That doesn't make any sense. Being hypocritical doesn't equal being wrong.

Credibility is what it means. People do not think your credible if you call out other people on things you do yourself.

Like, I don't see how you can make the conclusions so easily in this part. You start off with an observation, and immediately interpret it as scummy as opposed to noobtown.

I'm not saying you're wrong about Gord being scum, but I don't think your reasoning holds much merit.

I don't see how it can be noobtown, only one post is being sited compared to the multiple others that seem to suggest that he is scum rather than noobtown.

What AM's said. Sitting on the sideline. Being wishy-washy. A lot of posts basically consisting of "this is bad, but it's not that bad, but I'm not sure what to make of it".

Like this:

That statement does not support your case.

I said he was more plauable, which mean I think he is the princess he claims right now. I do think Vult had a legit case, at the time he made it, now I don't agree with it. I think Vult made effort to scum hunt, even if his case is incorrect in my eyes right now.

What is hard to understand?

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

@RR Can you link me to a recent scum and town game of yours that aren't any of the following: Bingo, Dexter, Resi 4, Droom. Thanks.

Fire Emblem - Scum
Dissidia - Town

 

[Lil Jon]

Danke schon.

Last question RR and I'll stop bothering you for a while.

Read on Beatstick?

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Please do.

You want to convince me to vote him, don't you?

/posting to remember to follow through later.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Unvote

/not claiming Dr. Peepee.

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

Agh, LJ. Not really salty as I am disappointed. Responding to stuff now.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Danke schon.

Last question RR and I'll stop bothering you for a while.

Read on Beatstick?

Null right now.

 

[#HBC | J]

Gordito, Adumb, Beat, Vult, FF, AM, Joey, maaaaaybe Terywj, maaaaaaaaybe RR are scum candidates.

Lil Jon
J
Swords
Roxy

Those are your town reads?

 

[#HBC | J]

Lil Jon, ask me a series of questions. I am bored and need something to do.

I am getting some ready for others as well.

Pick one of Adumb/Joey/Beatstick.

 

[Lil Jon]

Yup. Strong ones anyway. Don't trust any weak town reads in D1 enough to discount them from the scumpool.

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=12725177&postcount=635 Anything unusual stand out to you in the votes?

We can be townbuds now, right? ;_;

Beatstick.

I'll have proper questions to ask later. Going to do a proper read-through of the thread instead of skimming, just need to eat first.

 

[#HBC | J]

Nothing really stands out in the vote count since it was around the time everyone was just hopping off of RR and not really putting their votes anywhere. Yes, we can be townbuds now.

Now our of Adumb/Gord. Pick another name.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

What.

Joey, I'm still waiting for answers.

 

[Lil Jon]

Hmmm...

Gord.

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

Wow computer decided to exit out my window for no reason during mid post. Going to just go over the abridged version now.

@FF:

Calling me out for not being particularly active? Fair. Wanting some more content from me? Fair. Getting a null read from what few posts I've had? Also completely fair.

Misrepresenting what I said and why I said it? Trying to present my content in a bad light? Very, very not cool.

If anyone in their mom could have wrote what I did, then why were like upwards of 4 pages of muck containing little more than pissant bickering over AM's claim and stupid personal arguments preceding my post? If it was so intuitive and obvious that what was being discussed was crap, then why in the world might I ask, would I even need to try and move discussion away from it? I absolutely did not just post what I posted "just to post it." The game had little constructive content leading up to the point where I was able to join in. I called people out on it and laid a groundwork for WHY that content was crap, and WHY we needed to move away from it. I even tried to get things moving in the right direction by asking substantive questions to particular players. Whether or not people payed me any heed and actually followed my advice has no bearing on what I actually DID in my post.

So yeah, smooth move trying to discredit me like that, but it isn't gonna fly.

I said what you covered is something that "anyone and their mom" could of covered because it was mostly just easy stuff to go over. Complaining about the town's performance and certain people for being dumb is not relevant. Going over the basics of what to do in the Night is shallow. The only things I like about your introduction post is you calling AM town and your reasoning for it. The questions at the end I feel neutral about because I can't really see the results from them, although I can see the intent. How did these questions help you?

I wouldn't have a problem with the above at all if it wasn't fr the fact that you went inactive afterwards. Since you went inactive, it means that about 90% of what you did cover for a couple days length was either shallow or irrelevant. That I simply do not find fair. Why do you get to be the one who "lays the groundwork of things" and nothing else? Why are you exempt from getting into the down and dirty with everyone else? Just because AM's princess claim somehow made reads too hard? So if AM didn't claim princess, then does mean you would of had reads?

Also, what arbitrary stranded do people need to follow for reads to become possible for you? Could one not argue that a lot of the time town gets focused on certain issues early on? In matter of fact, I would argue that about just as much was put on the table this game early on as any other game.

There's your explanation. I think most of your introduction post was either shallow or irrelevant, and that it is unfair for you to take no stances besides from AM just because people didn't follow the "usual stranded" of early play due to AM's claim.

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

Alright, fair enough. Obviously everyone can't agree--otherwise Mafia wouldn't be fun, but I can see what you're saying and I realize I misinterpreted. Sorry.

However, you completely missed my vote at the end of my updated reads?

Oh, whoops. Yes I did miss it. I thought you didn't vote because of this:

Scum reads, now. If Tery can't get away with not having a vote, you can't get away with tunneling.

This (which was was posted after your vote) made me think that you didn't vote. My bad.

Swords, you are making my head hurt. Listen, FF was a strong town read at that time. Now I would rather listen to those who are more prevelant as town reads to me at the current time. I still think FF is town, the fact is, I find others to be more town at the moment. Bottom line is, I go with what I want and I listen to what the people I think are town's decisions are.

RRtown and Gord implications I haven't thought of yet.

So basically his opinion is just being balanced out with everyone elses then?

If you're so sure about this read why don't we get any good expansion on it? From what are you deriving this read, you've left us completely in the dark. You mention your certainty again here but still, no explanation: http://www.smashboards.com/showpost....&postcount=375

*sigh* this is a fair point.

FF, could you go into more depth as to why J and Joey interactions look fake? I read over them, and I could see their interactions as being "natural," in the sense that it wasn't planned or scripted.

 

[Purple]

You're on the right track.

Firstly, If a Town Princess really is in the game AND her effect takes place if killed during Night or Day, then the Mod placed her with the mindset that the Town needs to be nerfed. If he were to flip Town, then our Town must be strong, and there's no way we're down-and-out.
Stop looking at things from a "what-if-consequences" side.

The above doesn't matter. They might flip Princess, but they certainly won't flip Town. Here's why:

You see that they are deliberately talking to each other in-thread about their "role situation". Why? Because they want to convince people that they are a Town Princess. Sure, obviously, but they'd do that as Town or Scum. Why go to this underhanded length? Because they don't expect people to believe them through "normal" means.

If they think they have to resort to "drastic" things like talking to each other in-thread to convince people that they are Town, then why did they attack me for speculating their claim, hm? They accused me of spreading fear, suspicion, and doubt about their claim -- and used THAT as a reason to vote me.

They are employing both of these mentalities at the same time:
1. "We have to go to great lengths to prove we are Town because we expect people to be skeptical."
2. "People who are skeptical must be scum!"

Tell me what Town-aligned person thinks that. Purple? Swords? Joey?

There are scum princesses? More likes hoodrats. lul.

THe main thing I want to point out is that you said they may flip princess, what does that mean? Isn't there only town beloved princesses? Don't you think that people who are attacking people who are against them will get noticed?

In AM's current scum list (if he even.. has one? I only remember him saying no to RR asking for reads). Is every single person someone who's attacked his princess claim?

adumb asked me a question somewhere, getting to that now.

Wtf soup why are you ****ing up every game

 

[#HBC | J]

Swords, I have no idea what you are even trying to accomplish by asking me these questions since the bottom line is reads can change.

 

[Purple]

Ffs.

it was post 391 adumb

 

[Purple]

Swords, I have no idea what you are even trying to accomplish by asking me these questions since the bottom line is reads can change.

But how often is too much?

Mafia
​

 

[#HBC | J]

You are gonna have to explain 703 to me Roxy. Bit too encrypted.

 

[Purple]

Oh, I'm just saying how much moving between reads is too much to be considered a scum tell.

It's more situational than a particular number though.

 

[#HBC | J]

Ooooh alright then I gotcha now.

Joey, I want your thoughts by tonight.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

In AM's current scum list (if he even.. has one? I only remember him saying no to RR asking for reads). Is every single person someone who's attacked his princess claim?

No, it's not, just Red Ruy and Vult are the two that jumped out and screamed "We're scum!" the loudest.

 

[#HBC | J]

Actually, I would love to hear AM's opinion on RR's claim and what their train of thought now is.

 

[Purple]

Vult's stuff is invalid then.

yee.

 

[Purple]

Did vult give scum picks yet?

Let's get those.

 

[#HBC | J]

IIRC, he said Beat and J if he had to give up AM which he still shows no sign of doing so.

 

[Lil Jon]

Ughh it's my bedtime but I'll probably end up forgetting about this game tommorow morning if I forget about it.

Re-reading now.

 

[#HBC | J]

Good I thing I remembered Seik is euro. I was about to question the 6:45 bedtime. xD

 

[Purple]

IIRC, he said Beat and J if he had to give up AM which he still shows no sign of doing so.

But whyyyyyyy

 

[#HBC | J]

Didn't specify.

Vult, how would you feel about being investigated or shot? I can make both happen.

 

[Lil Jon]

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=12692617&postcount=60


Loool. Just me?

 

[Vult Redux]

There are scum princesses? More likes hoodrats. lul.

THe main thing I want to point out is that you said they may flip princess, what does that mean? Isn't there only town beloved princesses? Don't you think that people who are attacking people who are against them will get noticed?

There are more important parts of that post that I would have liked you to respond to. :l Could you?

You don't think Scum Princess is viable?

I don't understand your second question. Could you reword it?

Vult's stuff is invalid then.

why would you say that if you didn't read it

 

[Purple]

I don't think scum princess is viable. I mean, why would there be a scum princess? Do you think it's the complete opposite of town princess (skipped night phases).

And how viable is that if town has power roles (which is probably does).

The question I was asking was if a person is only attacking people who attack don't you think the rest of town would notice?

 

[Purple]

I've never heard of a scum nerf, just less scum members
.

 

[#HBC | J]

Roxy, there is a mafia beloved Princess role. It is a role that can be on either faction.