Melee Tournament Mafia! Game Over, Town Wins!

[#HBC | Dancer]

I live! Holly boy that was a lot to catch up on. If you asked me a question and I missed it please point it out to me, because in this kind of fast paced game they can be very easy to miss.

---

@AM's 233: I actually can see why Vult didn't vote you until that point in time. Just a little bit before that, in his 175, he said that he could see you doing that as a townie, which is why he didn't lay his vote onto you. He discredited you, but it appears to me that he was just doing that because he was answering a question, explaining why he didn't believe you. Since he already stated that he didn't believe you, of course he was going to discredit you there.

@LJ's 365: In my eyes, Tery was just another inactive until her 357. Her 357 itself was a bit iffy. Some parts of her upper post were kinda weird, as they didn't really seem to progress a town agenda. I question how asking questions about metagaming, mod mechanics, ect. and how commenting on how she's not use to certain things is going to help. However, this is mixed among several other things which I feel may go somewhere, so focusing on that kind of feels like nitpicking.

However, one thing that definitely bothers me is the lack of vote at the end of the post. I mean, Tery, you should have a good amount of material by now, and you've definitely provided stances on a good amount of people, with only one scum read out of all of them. So why not vote them? I know I already brought up this point before against LJ, but it's still valid, especially considering everything you have to work with. I think it's probably worthy of a:

fos Tery

---

@AM: I have a question for you. Much earlier in the game you said that scum would want to leave the role open to WIFOM, and used that as some of your case against Vult. One might argue that that's reaching, because you're accusing him of a possible future agenda, something which can't really be proven. Response?

Btw, the point that you made in relation to RR's RE4 meta was fair, so okay.

@Gord: You ignored my case. >.> Giving it a second thought, I can see the point about RR playing on the sidelines as being true. However, the problem I have with that is the fact that the game just started a day ago before you agreed with Ryker. So again, what were you expecting out of him so soon?

The point that RR was playing safe with the vote seems legit. I agree that him showing suspicion of AM in one post, only to later vote him in another AFTER Vult does seems iffy.

Will subtract scum points for RR though for his back and forth with AM. Can't really say that that's playing on the sidelines.

@Roxy: Why do you find Joey suspicious?

@Gord what do you think of RR's interaction with AM? After that, could you really say that he has been on the sidelines?
---

FF has earned suspicion points from me for simply coming in, guns blazing, talking about how town sucks and how AM's move was bad, and then pretty much just leaving upon that note.

Roxy has earned suspicion points for easy one liners and a whole bunch of townie reads w/ only on scum read.

Really don't get where all of this Joey suspicion is coming from, he seems like one of the more obvious townies to me.

Not to sure about Vult. I'm going to need more convincing on him before I decide anything.

Could see both Gord and FF as scum for Gord's random comment on how he took FF's post as null.

Finding RR more suspicious for only pushing people who push him.

Right now, I'm thinking either one of FF/RR/Gord needs to die. Maybe Terry/LJ.

Vote staying on Gord for now, see no need to change it.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Red Ruy only stepped off of the sidelines after being pressured. He didn't take the initiative that a townie should. And oh, what I was expecting from him so soon was to at least try, in getting the ball rolling. What I DIDN'T expect was content free lolsy play like that which was provided. Ya get what I'm saying mang? It's his unwillingness to try, even early game, that attracted him to me in a negative notion.

Are you saying that it's bad that I pointed out that I don't necessarily feel one of the more notably good players in this game is def. town?

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

@Red Ruy

I believe the top of that post to lead to Joey suspicion, yes, but only with your scum flip, like I've said THOUSANDS of times. And the majority of the rest of his post seems to be justified. I don't see this as much of a scum tell, because I can also see a side where he's trying. Ultimately with Joey, if he dies toDay I won't go out of my way to defend it, but he's not anywhere high on my scum list.

 

[Beat!]

Well, when Joey and AM were having that, like, 1 page interaction, I got a town read from both Joey and AM. Which would make it T v T. But, if Red Ruy flips scum, I'm totally fine with calling it S v T with the chainsaw defense.

I meant, what in particular gave you town reads on both of them?

Umm, no it doesn't, especially when I'm not calling him town.

Lol

I felt the need to point out the oddness of his focus of mechanics. But I'm not calling him scum yet. Why do you care?

So instead of actually trying to do something about it (by like, talking to him?), you decided to tell everyone that you didn't like it, but that it's null anyway?
Don't buy it.

He didn't come out and explicitly say it. He stopped a gambit and said that he's solely focusing on AM.

So it's not him admitting to it as much as it's you interpreting it that way because it suits your case.

Yep. Skim moar?

Nice try.

 

[Purple]

@joey - Vult tunneling AM = ?

 

[Purple]

@SD = IU feel Joey is scummy because his information seems to be sporadic; getting us no where.

I understand it's d1, but usually you shoudl be making connections, not throwing assertions for no reason. Vult tunneling AM = ?. What does that REALLY say about Vult? Does that make sense with RR being scum as well? Do you see that connection (between Vult and RR that is)

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

@Red Ruy

I believe the top of that post to lead to Joey suspicion, yes, but only with your scum flip, like I've said THOUSANDS of times. And the majority of the rest of his post seems to be justified. I don't see this as much of a scum tell, because I can also see a side where he's trying. Ultimately with Joey, if he dies toDay I won't go out of my way to defend it, but he's not anywhere high on my scum list.

Here is what is weird about this, Joey isn't high on your scum list but your willing to put him up there if I flip scum. Wouldn't it be good to ask Joey and tunnel him other than sitting right here if you felt this way?

 

[Purple]

Man Gord, you just danced all around Joey.

Holy ****.

 

[Purple]

FoS: Gord

asdf

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

Red Ruy only stepped off of the sidelines after being pressured. He didn't take the initiative that a townie should. And oh, what I was expecting from him so soon was to at least try, in getting the ball rolling. What I DIDN'T expect was content free lolsy play like that which was provided. Ya get what I'm saying mang? It's his unwillingness to try, even early game, that attracted him to me in a negative notion.

Are you saying that it's bad that I pointed out that I don't necessarily feel one of the more notably good players in this game is def. town?

To the first paragraph: Yes, I get you. What just bugs me though is the fact that it seems like this type of scum tell is best served with time. I suppose you could say that he was pressured into activity, but meh, things like that can't really be proved, so it's hard to say if RR would of actually kept playing like that.

To the second part: No, what makes you think that?

@SD = IU feel Joey is scummy because his information seems to be sporadic; getting us no where.

I understand it's d1, but usually you shoudl be making connections, not throwing assertions for no reason. Vult tunneling AM = ?. What does that REALLY say about Vult? Does that make sense with RR being scum as well? Do you see that connection (between Vult and RR that is)

I never said that Joey was scummy.

Thanks for the advice . . . I guess. That kind of came out of left field though.

I have to ask, do you know that I was responding to a question asked in AM's 233? What
prompted you to ask me all of these questions (just out of curiosity?)

I kinda want to hear what Vult has to say before I answer those questions if that would be alright.

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

Btw Roxy I just realized that you didn't answer my question. Please do so.

 

[Lil Jon]

@Joey It's obvious Soup isn't around. He's V/LA this weekend. Why can't you pressure RR now, instead of waiting until Soup comes back? Does your opinion of RR depend on Soup's response?

I like Joey's defence but bleh. Entirely reactive.

RR looking better. Gordito, not so much.

 

[Purple]

All of that response was referring to joey

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Here is what is weird about this, Joey isn't high on your scum list but your willing to put him up there if I flip scum. Wouldn't it be good to ask Joey and tunnel him other than sitting right here if you felt this way?

I don't have any questions for Joey atm. Everything I think about him has already been determined in my mind. To me, you and other players are more important to pursue before Joey.

Man Gord, you just danced all around Joey.

...No? Sure I haven't had too much interaction with him. But there's no way you can say that I have just been dancing around em.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

EBWOP:

First quote is by Ruy.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I don't have any questions for Joey atm. Everything I think about him has already been determined in my mind. To me, you and other players are more important to pursue before Joey.

This makes no sense.

Joey is scum if I flip flip scum according to you, wouldn't you want to pursue Joey at all if this was the case.

Your so sure he is scum if I flip scum, yet you don't want to verify this? You don't want to look into this if your so sure I'm scum he could be my scummate?

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

I wanna look into it... UPON your flip. I don't need to go into, or reread into, any suspicion of em as of now, because his actions aside from the possible chainsaw allude to a town read.

 

[Vult Redux]

@ Vult: Do you think his points hold any truth in them? His being Ryker's, the points being against Red Ryu.

Not at all.
(Sorry for the delayed response.)

I like Red Ryu a lot. He's not just solely piggybacking off my arguments.

He stalled forever on voting us until he thought he could get away with it.

^ shows that AM has no motivation to try to actually interpret my actions.

If everyone recalls correctly, despite AM trying to claim otherwise, my vote doesn't really have to do with the claim alone. The vote's based on his attitude towards my response to the claim. There's a nice, solid point where he did drop the ball (located here: http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=12706542&postcount=180), and THAT prompted my vote. There's no way I would've voted him before he said that.

And who the hell are you to decide that it's silly? Why didn't you let it play out and backfire right in scum AM's face?

If his gambit involves RVS-breaking discussion, which I would have expected if he were Town, then speculating is what he'd have wanted in the first place.

I'm not sure what you mean by "scum AM" here. I thought we were pretending he was Town gambiting.

Ruining a gambit can't, and won't, ever be conceived as a pro town action. Ever.

I don't think you actually believe that as strongly as you said it.

... Really? Do you realize that you've admitted that you're purposely limiting yourself in your scum hunting margins (which obtw is extremely anti town and no townie would just do that)?

I worded that really poorly. I meant more that I'll get to other people when I don't have to devote every post I make to him because I have to catch up with him. I sign on once or twice a day at best so a lot of what I do is catch-up depending on activity levels.

 

[adumbrodeus]

What about his other posts?

His other posts are null but bad (beyond the prior ones in the line), gordito isn't a strong player and it's easy for him to look scummy or for people to push a case on him, but bad =/=scum. His frustration at being attacked for what he perceives as an honest mistake based on prior expirience (which is furthermore, the kind of mistake that is both a lightning rod, and a lot less likely to occur when he has scumbuddies advising him) is a strong towntell.

Nothing else he's said contradicts my dumbtown read on him.

I'm actually pretty fine with my vote on Gordito even after reading.

FF/RR/AM = town to me atm. Out of them FF's opinion is the opinion I am gonna be taking into the most.

I like Swords as well. Joey I don't like and am uncomfortable on.

Tery's 357 puts him as null while Adumb's 348 doesn't sit well with me.

Consider the rest idk/idc about atm.

Some explanation of those reads please?

@Adumb: Suspects outside of Red Ruy. I know you have one.

Will get back to this.

Said joey was leaning scum.

Erliaer in the gmae.

heuahdush

Was this supposed to be in response to a post/question? If so which?

 

[Vult Redux]

May I ask why?

By the time I get to the end of a long post, I've forgotten the beginning of the post.

It's not indicative of my alignment, it happens a lot when I'm reading or studying too.

@whoever asked me for other reads: BeatStick worries me. I think RR is Town. I'm leaning Town on Joey too, but not as much so. Adumbrodeus isn't neutral, but a wild card, and I want to see more from him. Terywj's read are somewhat alarming and I can't really wrap my head around where someone Town would conclude those reads, especially Vult AND AM = Town.

Likewise. I’m still not used to such a style.

You would think that the playstyle would be adapted to the supposed role, at least a little bit, wouldn't it?

---

I also retract what I said in 353 because I confused myself -- my original position does stem from AM's meta almost completely, but my current position and subsequent vote are from his play solely.

 

[Vult Redux]

Also I think Sworddancer is Town.

 

[Vult Redux]

Red Ruy only stepped off of the sidelines after being pressured. He didn't take the initiative that a townie should.

Can you show me where this is?

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

His other posts are null but bad (beyond the prior ones in the line), gordito isn't a strong player and it's easy for him to look scummy or for people to push a case on him, but bad =/=scum. His frustration at being attacked for what he perceives as an honest mistake based on prior expirience (which is furthermore, the kind of mistake that is both a lightning rod, and a lot less likely to occur when he has scumbuddies advising him) is a strong towntell.

Nothing else he's said contradicts my dumbtown read on him.

You don't think his chainsaw defense claim on me makes you think that? He said if I flip scum so is Joey and he has been somewhat avoiding questions at Joey. What do you think of this?

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

Hey Vult, in LJ's 365 he asked you a question. Could you answer it please?

Also please explain why you're worried about Beat.

---

J, in your 359 you said this:

Out of them FF's opinion is the opinion I am gonna be taking into the most.

I don't understand. FF's opinion about what? Why did you say this?

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

Roxy I still want that answer to my question.

Tery, could you see Gord v RR and being TvT?

 

[#HBC | J]

Kay, just got home but now I'm fully read up, gonna post my thoughts shortly.

 

[Dooms]

Vult tunneling AM = eh. I kinda see why he would do it but I don't really like it. Honestly, it's not something I would really go into.

Throwing random assertions? explain please.

I felt that Red Ryu was more defending, which lead to tunneling. I feel that this would mean that there isn't a connection between Vult and Red Ryu. Just because they both tunneled the same guy doesn't mean that they're scum together.

I don't get what you're trying to say at all Roxy. You still haven't explained how all of my posts are "Yeah you're right lol" when I was debating with AM. Giving up on that so soon?

After Soupa defends himself, and if its a good defense, then I plan on re-reading to get more town/scum reads, since I have a few nulls right now, and I don't want to attack Red Ryu right now because it would just be repeated statements + me re-reading may change my read on him. I'll go into more detail with him if he's still a scum read after re-reading, though.

 

[#HBC | J]

Your points on thinking I'm scum change completely, and you're grasping at everything possible to think I'm scum. Saying the same thing twice in one post, even. Really? I have every right to assume that you're tunneling me. Prove to me that you're not tunneling me, because it sure seems like you are.

I'm waiting for Soupa. They're basically two different players. I'm not giving his AWFUL play early game a clear just because Seik, who has NO IDEA what Soup was going after or what he was doing, and came in late game, posts a few townie posts. If you don't agree, then whatever.

Joey, my points don't change completely, they accumulate and those are all fine reasons as to why I think you are scum. I wasn't taking why you said I was tunneling you twice in one post as a scum tell but a red flag to you trying to discredit the attack calling it wagony. There is a difference between tunneling you by calling you out on every little minute detail and going against everything you post. Whereas what I am doing is commenting on things you do that I find scummy. I am not "grasping at everything possible." and you are being overdramatic.

Alright, I am gonna sit you down for a talk here, you cannot just wait for Soupa. Seikend and Soupa are the SAME person. You must hold Seikend just as much responsible for whatever Soupa has done. Does someone not hold a replacement accountable for anything their predecessor did before they came in? The answer is no. They are not basically two different players, this game they are one player. This is not a simple matter of whether I agree with you or not but rather that you are not thinking clearly. Answer me this, is Lil Jon's slot scummy to you, Yes or No?

Only call out I can remember was the change in play style. Which I commented on saying it isn't a scum tell. If there's anything, mind quoting it/giving me a post number to go back to?

The only call out that you can remember is change of playstyle? You are skimming. Joey even listed some points that he thinks I am using against him and if he can list over 10+ points while you only strawman it to a simple playstyle tiff. Here is the post which is post 432.

@Red Ruy

I believe the top of that post to lead to Joey suspicion, yes, but only with your scum flip, like I've said THOUSANDS of times. And the majority of the rest of his post seems to be justified. I don't see this as much of a scum tell, because I can also see a side where he's trying. Ultimately with Joey, if he dies toDay I won't go out of my way to defend it, but he's not anywhere high on my scum list.

This was a complete side-step of the original question poised to you. The first line in bold is the only thing that originates to what RR is getting at then you go into a sort of tangent back to saying you refuse to look at Joey as long as RR is alive.

Gord, what do you think of Joey if RR were to flip town? Why are you not considering this a possibility.

Man Gord, you just danced all around Joey.

Holy ****.

FoS: Gord

asdf

Roxy, I like you this game. Like alot. Be my hand-holding buddy? You don't have to but until I see stuff I don't like from you, we seem to be on the same wavelength.

I don't have any questions for Joey atm. Everything I think about him has already been determined in my mind. To me, you and other players are more important to pursue before Joey.

...No? Sure I haven't had too much interaction with him. But there's no way you can say that I have just been dancing around em.

Explain the bolded. Also, can you explain who you are persuing Gord? You have been on RR but otherwise you have not been looking at anyone else else nor doing anything besides saying, "Yo look at Joey on a scum RR flip." 100x

Again Gord, you do not get what Roxy is getting at. You did dance around what RR was asking.

Some explanation of those reads please?

Can you tell me which reads in particular you care the most about? Otherwise I see no reason to go into full detail unless I deem necessary. I know my reads and that is that.

J, in your 359 you said this:

I don't understand. FF's opinion about what? Why did you say this?

Out of FF/RR/AM, FF's opinion to me I trust the most. I think he is the towniest out of those three and therefore respect his opinion over the other two if he were to speak up about something. I said it to let it be known that FF was my strongest town read at the moment from that post.

Unvote
Vote: Gordito

HoS: Joey

 

[Purple]

@adumb - in response to AM's 381.

Joey, i literally quoted where you said "i'm done with that, next person!"

SD - I already responded as to why I thought Joey was scummy. Small as hell D1 bulletpoints coming up.

Gord, I just read you say, he's not on my scum list, but I'd kill him, but not really, but wait because of the connection with RR I'd still kill him!

 

[#HBC | J]

Roxy, will you join me on pressuring Gord more? He's more important at the time.

Swords, I like you this game, keep up the good work as well.

IGMEOU: Adumbrodeus

 

[#HBC | J]

Vult, I am curious about one certain thing. You commented on some oddball people and most of the people talked about minus myself. Why did you not comment on me?

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

What is IGMEOU?

 

[#HBC | J]

IGMEOU = I Got My Eye On U (You)

 

[#HBC | J]

Red Ryu, will you be joining me and Roxy (Purple)? I would like to add you to my pool of trusted people who have a similar mindset of mine.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I've liked your posts, so sure I would be down for it.

 

[Purple]

We in there.

 

[Vult Redux]

Hey Vult, in LJ's 365 he asked you a question. Could you answer it please?

I've talked about those two already.

Also please explain why you're worried about Beat.

His dismissing AM's claim as Town at the start of the game.

Firstly, that's not something people should do so simply in general or with this player specifically.

Secondly, he cites in #106 that the reason for his vote is because I hadn't explained the reason for my stance, which was true, but is an odd thing to bring up when he himself hadn't given a reason for his stance at that point. It gives off a "home in on/overpower the person who disagrees" vibe.

He's even devoted a post or two later towards me questioning my stance, but hasn't yet talked about his own reason for believing AM at the start.

Vult, I am curious about one certain thing. You commented on some oddball people and most of the people talked about minus myself. Why did you not comment on me?

I didn't know you existed until I started rereading 5 minutes ago.
Sorry.

 

[#HBC | J]

Good.

Our first agenda is to lynch Gordito. If that falls through, we will be lynching Joey. Sound good?

Can you two give me your opinions on Vult/Adumb/Lil Jon?

 

[#HBC | J]

Huh, that's strange Vult considering some things but I'll let you catch up first.

Also where is your vote gonna be going? We are not lynching AM toDay. Not gonna happen most likely unless they really **** up.

 

[Dooms]

ugh -_-'

J, I understand what you're saying about the points now, and I feel really dumb, so I'm moving on lol.

Normally, yes. How do I hold Seik accountable for that and how does he defend about that when Soupa didn't share any thoughts with him? Normally, I would ask the hydra, but after Seikend clearly stated that Soupa didn't share any thoughts with him, I knew that it wouldn't work out. If I ask Seik why Soupa said those things, I'm just going to get assumptions and guesses instead of the truth, which is what I want. Yes, until Soupa explains his actions and responds to what I said about him, I think the slot is scummy.

Roxy, you're saying that the one post you quoted makes all of my posts in that argument "yeah you're right lulz"? -_-'