Melee online for the Wii? Wii can make it happen.

[Someone7]

I created a topic over at AllisBrawl about getting gcars ported to the Wii, so that Melee can significantly extend its life and compete against Brawl (not that I hate Brawl or anything). I would have made it here first, as this forum seems more serious, but SWF was down at the time. Here is the thread, please read it all before posting here or there:

http://allisbrawl.com/forum/topic.aspx?id=17544

So, who would be up for trying to Bribe Fuzziqer with a Wii in order to get him working on a port of gcars? If Melee is gonna make a real comeback against Brawl, we need something like gcars.

 

[ss118]

You can go right ahead. If I see any evidence of this actually going to work, I'll jump in wallet first to make it come true.

 

[The Phenom]

fuzziqer and gcars are our only hope for ssbm online. I will of course join into trying to make him consider putting his time and work into melee online.

The only problem is that most of us don't have version 1.0 and he will have to try in getting the codes that wil enable versions 1.1 and 1.2 to go online because he only has working files that support version 1.0.

 

[AXE 09]

even if we do get melee online for the wii, what about lag? if it'll be as laggy as brawl is, then a lot of advanced moves would be hard to pull off

 

[Someone7]

The Phenom, there actually is support for version 1.1. Check Fuzziqer's forum for more information.

AXE 09, check youtube for some of the videos of people playing Melee online. Wavedashing and such seem to work completely fine. The problem with gcars seems to be the same as with playing SSB64 online, namely de-syncing issues due to randomness.

 

[Dogysamich]

even if we do get melee online for the wii, what about lag? if it'll be as laggy as brawl is, then a lot of advanced moves would be hard to pull off

you sure you're talking about lag and not input delay.

cause if there's lag on brawl, people generally dont play.

If you're talking about input delay, it's called muscle memory. The same thing everybody does for every other online fighting game.

 

[The Phenom]

So versions 1.0 and 1.1 can go online?

Confirm by saying yes, its the only way I will go check that website of his right now.

I have version 1.2 So for now I'm screwed right?

 

[-Final-]

Online for melee? I'd throw my copy of brawl out the window if I could get this.

 

[Someone7]

Yes...

I also have version 1.2, so I'd have to find someone to swap discs with me. I may just eventually buy the Gamecube Broadband Adapter and a AR disk (I can load the appropriate files via the Homebrew Channel onto the Gamecube memory card, so I don't think I need Phantasy Star Online), but I would much rather play it on the Wii.

 

[Zodiac]

even if we do get melee online for the wii, what about lag? if it'll be as laggy as brawl is, then a lot of advanced moves would be hard to pull off

It wont be, seriously, brawl's textures and levles are a big reason why its so laggy, that and nintendo's servers are cluttered like mad with a million 5 year olds.

The melee servers will have no such extra clutter and will run way better online than brawl

 

[Someone7]

There are no Brawl servers, if I remember correctly. It is all p2p. There won't be any melee servers either. It will be like using the netplay feature of ZSNES (host/client type of connection).

 

[DragonBlade]

Why dont we just port Melee to PC?

 

[Someone7]

Cause we don't have the source code, and never will. The best that could be done on that front is a freeware clone, and that would involve a lot of work (there some games that play a lot like SSB).

A port of gcars is a better option.

 

[Zodiac]

Why dont we just port Melee to PC?

You need an emulator, and unless you have a quad core processor I doubt you can run it smoothly, with 4 gigs of ram

 

[Someone7]

A "port" and emulating something aren't the samething. The Gamecube probably won't have a working emulator for it for a very, very long time. They still don't even have a working Saturn emulator, the PS1 and N64 emulators are generally unreliable with most roms. However, if we had the sourcecode for Melee, it wouldn't be very hard to compile it for any other computer platform (probably will never happen).

 

[Zodiac]

A "port" and emulating something aren't the samething. The Gamecube probably won't have a working emulator for it for a very, very long time. They still don't even have a working Saturn emulator, the PS1 and N64 emulators are generally unreliable with most roms. However, if we had the sourcecode for Melee, it wouldn't be very hard to compile it for any other computer platform (probably will never happen).

umm actually about a year ago I playeda working melee rom, it just ran like crap since the computer specs were'nt up for the task

 

[DragonBlade]

Ok, seriously this time, the problem I see is that running in gamecube mode does not let you access any additional wii hardware that the gamecube did not use (so no wifi or usb LAN adapter). You would either need to find a way to run Melee in wii mode or access wii specific hardware in gamecube mode. Unless someone thinks they have a good idea about how to hack this, it seems like it really would be easier to copy Melee physics and program the game from scratch on a PC.

 

[Someone7]

Apparently the GC does have a working emulator that can play SSBM, known as Dolphin (though strangely, the compatibility list for it doesn't mention it on their website). Though by "working emulator," I meant something at least as useful as the N64/PS1 emulators.

 

[Someone7]

Ok, seriously this time, the problem I see is that running in gamecube mode does not let you access any additional wii hardware that the gamecube did not use (so no wifi or usb LAN adapter). You would either need to find a way to run Melee in wii mode or access wii specific hardware in gamecube mode. Unless someone thinks they have a good idea about how to hack this, it seems like it really would be easier to copy Melee physics and program the game from scratch on a PC.

Yeah, that is basically what the guys at #wiidev told me. But I recall with Brawl there were questions about whether or not we would be even able to use GC controllers, because of a similar issue. If the GC controllers were originally only supposed to be accessed by games in GC-mode, surely there has to be some solution that hasn't been discovered yet by the Homebrew community.

 

[OmegaXXII]

do you actually believe this to work? and by this I mean starting the fundraiser which I laughed when I heard this, and also wouldn't he have to work on programming all the problems like porting Gamecube controller functions and such

 

[Zodiac]

I would donate a bit for his wii, but seriously I would have to have his word and promise x 10 that he would get this working.

 

[Samus-T]

could u imagine the lag? at the speeds of melee, things would be very hard to time. it would be way cool but i think it would get very frustrating having to deal with lag.

 

[Someone7]

do you actually believe this to work? and by this I mean starting the fundraiser which I laughed when I heard this, and also wouldn't he have to work on programming all the problems like porting Gamecube controller functions and such

He said on his own forum he would work on it if he had a Wii.

 

[Someone7]

could u imagine the lag? at the speeds of melee, things would be very hard to time. it would be way cool but i think it would get very frustrating having to deal with lag.

It doesn't appear laggy in the youtube videos.

 

[Ja]

doublepost

 

[Plazma]

if they make it happen, then I finally found a god I can worship

 

[Ja]

Grr post got deleted.

Why dont we just port Melee to PC?

It's a good idea, but we would also need to make a GC to USB convertor. I know we have some EE on smashboards. Finally, It would probably be more work than tweaking it for the wiI.

If we decide to port it to the PC, the port needs to be written in a cross platform language. None of this .NET or C# crap. It also needs to be written in a very abstract language to avoid premature optimization, which is the root of all evil . Personally, I would suggest writing it in Python and inlining C where speed was needed (collision detection?), but I don't really care what it's written in so long as it's cross platform.

 

[nicaboy]

iwant this more than i wan2 make love to my girl
anyway im in this on allisbrawl to we need more intrest

 

[Vro]

It doesn't appear laggy in the youtube videos.

Can you post a link to online melee videos? Also, I'm thinking about selling my Wii. If this really beings to look promising, I'll consider giving/selling it for a low price.

 

[Someone7]

http://www.geocities.com/the_psychotic_worm/ssbmonlinevideos.htm

Wavedashing, L-canceling, etc, appears to work fine.

Wiis generally go for about about $180 on Ebay. If you would give us a discount on the Wii, then the money we would need to raise is much lower. All we would need to do then is to get Fuzziqer to promise to work really hard at porting gcars, see if we can get the #wiidev team to help him, and we'll have Melee online, on the Wii.

 

[Vro]

I watched Match 4. It looks glitchy as hell. I'm not making any promises, so don't rely on me with the Wii.

 

[Peach_rules]

I really like melee and would love for it to have wi-fi. I'm better at it too.

 

[Someone7]

I watched Match 4. It looks glitchy as hell. I'm not making any promises, so don't rely on me with the Wii.

Are you referring to the Aftermath and _glook match? It looks fine to me. Wavedashing, L-canceling, missile canceling, shffl's, etc, appear to work fine.

 

[Sai Winner of Games]

I like this idea, however if we did this we would also need to develop a GC to USB convertor. I hear we have some EE on smashboards...

What if we reverse engineered SSBM? We already have most of the data we need thanks to M2Ks meticulous comparisons. I also think it's possible to extract the character models, hitboxes and levels from the disc. Then "merely" we need to figure out how to hook into everything, and test it.

Worst case is we would have to make the entire game from scratch. I'd imagine that just making a simple sim level where you can walk/run/jump/walljump/wd/ff would be the hardest part. After that you start adding in moves, hitboxes, collision detection and characters. Character models and levels would go last as they are least relevant. Gameplay before graphics.

Unfortunately I don't have the expertise to make the sim, but once that was up I could contribute. Write it in maybe, python with inlined C for things like collision detection? I don't really care which language(s) this is written in as long as it's a cross platform language, and not some microsoft pos like .NET or C#. Whatever language it is done in, please use a very abstract one. Don't decide to code the whole thing in C or JAVA, as that's premature optimization, which is the root of all evil.

I was bored one day and actually researched this. Melee's basic physics are rather simple from a programing point of view (all the subtleties will be harder of course) and there are several well supported and documented open source graphics and physics engines that could potentially work. The two graphics engines that I thought would best are The Irrlicht Engine and O.G.R.E. 3D. Both of them let you use ODE or Bullet Physics. I think these could exceed Melee's graphical and physical capabilities. Irrlicht and Bullet seem to run faster while OGRE and ODE seem to have more support advanced options, but they may not be neccessary for a smash game. Both of the graphics engines are written in C++ and also have Python bindings. They should save a lot of coding since it would let you use modules already do things like camera control, importing models, collision detection, etc. I actually compiled The Irrlicht Engine on Ubuntu and imported some Twilight Princess models with their samples to test it out and it seemed to work. I think its possible to add skeletons to animate existing models or news ones created in Blender or something, but I have not done that yet. I actually stopped because of school and stuff.

If this does get off the ground though, I think we would need to go beyond Melee. I know what you are thinking, "What could possibly be better than Melee?" Well, Melee with a powerful custom character and stage builder, online (perhaps virtual LAN tools on PC can help deal with the lag), and maybe even custom AI scripting. Also, if we did it this way we would not have problems having blatant rips of copyrighted characters and stages in the game, since they would be "user created content" separate from the game itself. If this worked, I would probably spend more time building characters and stages and playing the game than the immense amount of time it would take to program, which is also sort of fun. You can see why I had to take a break from it . In a few months I could easily spare a lot of time to do the physics and some general coding if we have a small dedicated team of programmers who could help with the rest.

 

[Vro]

Are you referring to the Aftermath and _glook match? It looks fine to me. Wavedashing, L-canceling, missile canceling, shffl's, etc, appear to work fine.

Yes. You are so enthused in this online play you seem to be blind by how glitchy it is. Hopefully all of it will be resolved, but it is in fact glitchy as hell.

0:10 Falcon takes 0% from two attacks.
0:21 Falcon SWDs
0:29 Broken knockback
0:59 Falcon flies
1:16 Great DI
1:31 Best combo ever
1:51 Sweet tech
2:01 SWD
2:17 Great DI
2:30 Samus's grab is too good
2:59 Another great combo
3:03 Look at that tech!
3:22 omg DI
4:01 Falcon flies

 

[Grunt]

You need an emulator, and unless you have a quad core processor I doubt you can run it smoothly, with 4 gigs of ram

My friend spent thousands of $$$$ on his computer about a week ago.
I believe he has 4 gigs XD.

EDIT:
lol missile spike.

 

[Zodiac]

My friend spent thousands of $$$$ on his computer about a week ago.
I believe he has 4 gigs XD.

EDIT:
lol missile spike.

really? Mine only cost me $650

 

[Grunt]

really? Mine only cost me $650

His computer is beyond inhuman.

It's got like 10 fans total or something...im not sure exactly what he got, but it's a graphical/spacial cyberbeast.

 

[Shai Hulud]

If you can do this on the Gamecube why don't people use it? I have to assume the online play is very problematic, so why would it be better on the Wii? I must be missing something here. NVM you explained it in the allisbrawl thread.

 

[LoyalSoldier]

It wont be, seriously, brawl's textures and levles are a big reason why its so laggy, that and nintendo's servers are cluttered like mad with a million 5 year olds.

The melee servers will have no such extra clutter and will run way better online than brawl

Yet at the same time you also assume the net code being written by a third party will be decent enough to support the game at the right speed.

Although just a note that graphics rarely have anything to do with net speed because the packets being sent over the internet are positional data and the console works off of that.

Let's face it. For Melee it needs to be perfect or else it just won't feel right.

If you can do this on the Gamecube why don't people use it? I have to assume the online play is very problematic, so why would it be better on the Wii? I must be missing something here. NVM you explained it in the allisbrawl thread.

The Gamecube was not designed to go out online. It was a jerry rig setup that allowed them to do this. The Wii on the other hand was designed to work over the internet.