"melee mode" discussion

[Rocket Raccoon]

Again you assume that the main demographic of a Melee mode would be Melee players.

If there were to be a Melee mode in Smash Ultimate then casuals wouldn't care or probably not even the notice between the base game itself and the Melee mode.

 

[BronzeGreekGod]

Again, it would be better to make "competitive mode" a separate game. That way, they can introduce new mechanics, freshen up the roster with new movesets, and build on what Melee offered.





...you okay..? Your writing suddenly looks like you became an average GameFAQs poster.

Anyway, if all you're hoping for is faster pace, as others have said, that's what Ultimate does. But Melee just can't solely be defined by fast pace. There are its weak defensive options and emergent advanced tech as well.

Again, that sort of thing is best reserved for a separate game.



And lose advancements like autolink angles, Meteors that actually work, and the ability to use characters with awesome mechanics like the Inklings? There's a reason for everything.



Again, what is with your writing? One moment your posts are written with reason and nice thought, and another you become a GameFAQs poster.

This really shouldn't be a big deal, but it's incredibly distracting to me.

lol I duno what gamefaqs ppl post like. I assume its bad tho haha. but anyway, im not saying use the engine as is.. im saying use it and build on it. add more stuff. The main mechanics are already built in, add more for the inklings etc.

as for the faster pace, I really hope that it works out well for ultimate. but I also really hope that there are at least many other options regarding gravity, knockback, vertical jumping distance, and input lag.

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

If there were to be a Melee mode in Smash Ultimate then casuals wouldn't care or probably not even the notice between the base game itself and the Melee mode.

So what? Again, you seem to be implying that few or no new players will start out competitive or transition from being casual to competitive.

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

So what? Again, you seem to be implying that few or no new players will start out competitive or transition from being casual to competitive.

It wouldn't be recognizable enough for them to want to play the Melee mode. They'd assume that normal and Melee mode would be the same and would enter normal tourneys.

 

[Quillion]

By the way.. everyone who says melee is dead, or move on, and sakurai has moved on etc... if we're supposed to move on, why in the world does sakurai go out of his way to make smash always be compatible with gamecube controllers?

The GameCube controller is pretty much the ideal controller to play Smash with. The A button is enormous, allowing you to easily do normals, and the other buttons, B, X, and Y, are arranged so that they're easily accessible from that point.

*dab*

lol I duno what gamefaqs ppl post like. I assume its bad tho haha. but anyway, im not saying use the engine as is.. im saying use it and build on it. add more stuff. The main mechanics are already built in, add more for the inklings etc.

as for the faster pace, I really hope that it works out well for ultimate. but I also really hope that there are at least many other options regarding gravity, knockback, vertical jumping distance, and input lag.

What kind of stuff do you have in mind though? I do have the idea of making wavedashing a separate button and building on it as a mechanic while leaving L-Canceling behind, but what can you think of?

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

It wouldn't be recognizable enough for them to want to play the Melee mode. They'd assume that normal and Melee mode would be the same and would enter normal tourneys.

Well, I can't argue with someone with his finger on the pulse of the Smash (and future Smash) community.

 

[Quillion]

Well, I can't argue with someone with his finger on the pulse of the Smash (and future Smash) community.

Rocket Raccoon is absolutely right. Melee mode will not work as something tacked on to Ultimate.

Let it be a separate game!

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

Rocket Raccoon is absolutely right. Melee mode will not work as something tacked on to Ultimate.

Let it be a separate game!

Let Ultimate get modded first. The modding scene would be able to differentiate itself from Ultimate like how Project M was basically it's own Smash game in and of itself. Having a mode wouldn't do it any justice IMO.

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

Let Ultimate get modded first. The modding scene would be able to differentiate itself from Ultimate like how Project M was basically it's own Smash game in and of itself. Having a mode wouldn't do it any justice IMO.

And then Nintendo will pull support from tournaments and channels that host it.

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

And then Nintendo will pull support from tournaments and channels that host it.

I just think having a Melee mode would be a waste of time for Smash Ultimate especially since the Smash community is more than willing to make a Melee mode for itself. Monkey's paw. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[Quillion]

Let Ultimate get modded first. The modding scene would be able to differentiate itself from Ultimate like how Project M was basically it's own Smash game in and of itself. Having a mode wouldn't do it any justice IMO.

Thing is, I have little faith that the modding community will actually use Ultimate's engine to really build on Melee's mechanics, though. Project M retains wayyyy too many of Melee's warts for my liking and leaves a lot of the good concepts of Melee as underdeveloped as they are.

• Air dodging is returned to being useless to promote wavedashing and the niche recovery mixup.
• Wavedashing is still just an emergent exploit and not a real dedicated mechanic.
• L-Canceling is still a thing.
• Meteors still have a fixed cancelling window (it uses Brawl's, but this is still a bad thing).

PMDev couldn't really think outside the box, IMO. Part of it was due to the limitations of Brawl's engine. So that's why I would like a ground-up reworking of the engine to make a smaller-scale, more balanced game around Melee-like mechanics would work out way better.

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

Thing is, I have little faith that the modding community will actually use Ultimate's engine to really build on Melee's mechanics, though. Project M retains wayyyy too many of Melee's warts for my liking and leaves a lot of the good concepts of Melee as underdeveloped as they are.

• Air dodging is returned to being useless to promote wavedashing and the niche recovery mixup.
• Wavedashing is still just an emergent exploit and not a real dedicated mechanic.
• L-Canceling is still a thing.
• Meteors still have a fixed cancelling window (it uses Brawl's, but this is still a bad thing).

PMDev couldn't really think outside the box, IMO. Part of it was due to the limitations of Brawl's engine. So that's why I would like a ground-up reworking of the engine to make a smaller-scale, more balanced game around Melee-like mechanics would work out way better.

I think that's why PMDev switched to Icons.

 

[BronzeGreekGod]

The GameCube controller is pretty much the ideal controller to play Smash with. The A button is enormous, allowing you to easily do normals, and the other buttons, B, X, and Y, are arranged so that they're easily accessible from that point.

What kind of stuff do you have in mind though? I do have the idea of making wavedashing a separate button and building on it as a mechanic while leaving L-Canceling behind, but what can you think of?

I agree whole heartedly that the gc controller is ideal for playing smash.. but so is melee

Lol but seriously, the gamecube controller is linked to melee, melee was born with the gamecube literally. it came with it on release. they belong together

Also lol at the billy Madison vid

What am I thinking? well:

My main concern (especially since im hearing a lot of melees mechanics are being implemented already) is the air game. I feel the knockback decay is a bit odd, though maybe it works fine in game, but more importantly - Im not sure if this is an issue or not - but im worried the game is still floaty. The foaty gameplay is the worst part of brawl and smash4. These things can be fixed very easily... A knockback decay toggle (where we can make kb decay higher or lower) can be implemented. We already are able to increase the knockback ratio so that's good. A gravity toggle would be great as well so we can increase and decrease gravity as we please, and coupled with this would be a vertical momentum toggle for characters jumping and also up-b's. When adding gravity in smash4, it would totally mess up many characters up b distance, making them un playable. With these toggles, the air game can be tweaked by anyone as they please.

The other concern is the whole input lag situation. If there in fact is an input lag toggle though, and we can reduce input lag to 0, or at least close to 0, that would be great.

And lastly, this may be less of an issue now cause I think ive heard characters feel less clumsy in ultimate, less endlag in characters moves. Being totally punished for whiffing, and also not having the chance to follow up with another attack when connecting with an enemy is annoying. if I hit an enemy and they recover before I can even attack again, that is just awful and not fun at all.

Those are my main gripes. Maybe that makes things a bit more specific and that's how I shoulda started this whole thing? lol

 

[Necro'lic]

Thing is, I have little faith that the modding community will actually use Ultimate's engine to really build on Melee's mechanics, though. Project M retains wayyyy too many of Melee's warts for my liking and leaves a lot of the good concepts of Melee as underdeveloped as they are.

• Air dodging is returned to being useless to promote wavedashing and the niche recovery mixup.
• Wavedashing is still just an emergent exploit and not a real dedicated mechanic.
• L-Canceling is still a thing.
• Meteors still have a fixed cancelling window (it uses Brawl's, but this is still a bad thing).

PMDev couldn't really think outside the box, IMO. Part of it was due to the limitations of Brawl's engine. So that's why I would like a ground-up reworking of the engine to make a smaller-scale, more balanced game around Melee-like mechanics would work out way better.

*Raises hand*

Maybe I could do that. I'm good at coding and game design... I hope. ._.

 

[Quillion]

*Raises hand*

Maybe I could do that. I'm good at coding and game design... I hope. ._.

Hey, maybe you can make the MUGEN-for-Smash engine that this community sorely needs. There's Project TUSSLE, but the creator seems to have quit on it.

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

Hey, maybe you can make the MUGEN-for-Smash engine that this community sorely needs. There's Project TUSSLE, but the creator seems to have quit on it.

Doesn't look like it.

 

[Quillion]

I agree whole heartedly that the gc controller is ideal for playing smash.. but so is melee

Somehow, I can't believe that you're the one who made such an amazing Ganondorf mod for PM...

Lol but seriously, the gamecube controller is linked to melee, melee was born with the gamecube literally. it came with it on release. they belong together

Also lol at the billy Madison vid

What am I thinking? well:

My main concern (especially since im hearing a lot of melees mechanics are being implemented already) is the air game. I feel the knockback decay is a bit odd, though maybe it works fine in game, but more importantly - Im not sure if this is an issue or not - but im worried the game is still floaty. The foaty gameplay is the worst part of brawl and smash4. These things can be fixed very easily... A knockback decay toggle (where we can make kb decay higher or lower) can be implemented. We already are able to increase the knockback ratio so that's good. A gravity toggle would be great as well so we can increase and decrease gravity as we please, and coupled with this would be a vertical momentum toggle for characters jumping and also up-b's. When adding gravity in smash4, it would totally mess up many characters up b distance, making them un playable. With these toggles, the air game can be tweaked by anyone as they please.

The other concern is the whole input lag situation. If there in fact is an input lag toggle though, and we can reduce input lag to 0, or at least close to 0, that would be great.

And lastly, this may be less of an issue now cause I think ive heard characters feel less clumsy in ultimate, less endlag in characters moves. Being totally punished for whiffing, and also not having the chance to follow up with another attack when connecting with an enemy is annoying. if I hit an enemy and they recover before I can even attack again, that is just awful and not fun at all.

Those are my main gripes. Maybe that makes things a bit more specific and that's how I shoulda started this whole thing? lol

By "knockback decay", do you mean knockback staling? I think it's vital for players to not just spam their finishers all over the place.

If anything needs to change about knockback, I just want combo moves to have lower base knockback. I don't want extensive combos to be exclusive to Bayonetta, and lower base knockback on dedicated combo moves would promote extensive combos.

Input lag is kinda an inevitability with the favoring of wireless controllers now. I wish it went away too, but I don't know how it can work.

And if endlag is still an issue, they can always compensate with more hitstun. Heck, I'm trying to advocate for hitstun-knockback separation, so that hitstun isn't just a pure multiplier of knockback and hitstun could just be adjusted on each move individually.

Doesn't look like it.

Hey, he actually updated! I thought he gave up!

 

[BronzeGreekGod]

Somehow, I can't believe that you're the one who made such an amazing Ganondorf mod for PM..

lol not into funny memes huh

 

[Quillion]

lol not into funny memes huh

For one thing, you keep distracting everyone from a serious and insightful discussion that could otherwise be going on.

For another thing...

 

[BronzeGreekGod]

By "knockback decay", do you mean knockback staling? I think it's vital for players to not just spam their finishers all over the place.

If anything needs to change about knockback, I just want combo moves to have lower base knockback. I don't want extensive combos to be exclusive to Bayonetta, and lower base knockback on dedicated combo moves would promote extensive combos.

Input lag is kinda an inevitability with the favoring of wireless controllers now. I wish it went away too, but I don't know how it can work.

And if endlag is still an issue, they can always compensate with more hitstun. Heck, I'm trying to advocate for hitstun-knockback separation, so that hitstun isn't just a pure multiplier of knockback and hitstun could just be adjusted on each move individually.

By kb decay I mean the thing that's happening in ultimate. characters are being hit away with high kb, and then suddenly their kb is reduced. It looks really weird to me and a lot of others ive talked to about it. Im not sure what to think of it yet though cause I haven't felt it myself

I agree with lower base kb for combo moves for sure. that would be another way to ensure combos can work, and maybe would combat against floatyness. I just really liked playing smash4 with high gravity and with a higher knockback ratio. I was just really disappointed the gravity messed with so many characters recoveries.

Hitstun could be a good way to combat against long endlags too. I think shortening endlag on attacks would be the better option, but hitstun would help for sure.

For one thing, you keep distracting everyone from a serious and insightful discussion that could otherwise be going on.

For another thing...

im just trying to cut the tension lol

 

[Tollhouse]

Competitive and casual self interests aside, making any kind of mode that changes the physics of the game from the regular gameplay would be almost making 2 games in one like others have said on this thread already. That means more development time and money. They'd have to balance the 70+ characters we have so they all work properly in both modes and then they'd have to debug both. It's ridiculous and makes no sense from a designer's or a business perspective. It's a waste of time and money and makes far more sense to design one gameplay engine that's a compromise to both competitive and casual which is what Sakurai aimed for in Ultimate.

According to my calculations, melee mode's chances of becoming a real feature in not only Ultimate but any future smash title is approximately -200%.

 

[BronzeGreekGod]

Competitive and casual self interests aside, making any kind of mode that changes the physics of the game from the regular gameplay would be almost making 2 games in one like others have said on this thread already. That means more development time and money. They'd have to balance the 70+ characters we have so they all work properly in both modes and then they'd have to debug both. It's ridiculous and makes no sense from a designer's or a business perspective. It's a waste of time and money and makes far more sense to design one gameplay engine that's a compromise to both competitive and casual which is what Sakurai aimed for in Ultimate.

According to my calculations, melee mode's chances of becoming a real feature in not only Ultimate but any future smash title is approximately -200%.

I can see why people would think it's like making 2 games, but I'm not asking to completely change everyone's moveset. "Melee mode" was almost fully attainable in smash4. Adjusting gravity, adding smooth lander and increasing knockbac did a very decent job of making the gameplay feel much faster. A few more small tweaks, or toggles for players to use would be perfect. I think it's quite an attainable thing to ask for.

 

[Deleted member]

I want to judge the feel of Ultimate for itself before I will decide whether I want it to be more like Melee or not.

As of now, I don't think it needs it, because it seems to be going, once again, in the right direction in terms of game-feel. Smash 4 felt better than Brawl, Ultimate will probably feel better than 4. Especially since air combos seem so much more viable now.

That said, I have nothing really conclusive to share aside from that. It's very much a wait-and-see situation, and imo the game doesn't need to feel like Melee as long as it just kinda feels great to play.

 

[LaughingLefou]

So what? Again, you seem to be implying that few or no new players will start out competitive or transition from being casual to competitive.

I think you severely overestimate the competitive community. Every person I've played Smash with over the years has been casual like myself, and refuses to go competitive because of just how much gets cut. Stage Hazards, Items, etc are all removed to make things 'fair,' but to us, it doesn't *feel* like Smash. Making things more like Melee would not help things. Most casuals just want to have fun, not treat Smash like homework that we have to put lots of time and effort into to brag to others, we want to have a match with nothing but explosives on the biggest stage we can play on.

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

Most casuals just want to have fun, not treat Smash like homework

So don't. You make it sound like Melee wasn't fun for casuals. Nothing is stopping casuals from playing however they want.

 

[BronzeGreekGod]

I think you severely overestimate the competitive community. Every person I've played Smash with over the years has been casual like myself, and refuses to go competitive because of just how much gets cut. Stage Hazards, Items, etc are all removed to make things 'fair,' but to us, it doesn't *feel* like Smash. Making things more like Melee would not help things. Most casuals just want to have fun, not treat Smash like homework that we have to put lots of time and effort into to brag to others, we want to have a match with nothing but explosives on the biggest stage we can play on.

Ya but I'm a casual, and I prefer melee and project m. Theyre just better games. Making the game slower for ppl that suck makes no sense. People that suck, play against other ppl that suck. It's al relative

 

[Necro'lic]

Ya but I'm a casual, and I prefer melee and project m. Theyre just better games. Making the game slower for ppl that suck makes no sense. People that suck, play against other ppl that suck. It's al relative

Just because a game is slower doesn't mean it's for people who suck. I personally like the slower overall pace of Smash 4. However, I want more options and combos.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Please do not post multiple times. Edit your messages instead.

 

[Quillion]

BronzeGreekGod , you keep oversimplifying what's required to make Melee-like gameplay work. Making the game faster by itself won't mean much, and new and revamped mechanics from post-Melee are better than in Melee.

And then if they somehow change all that, they'll have to balance the characters around the different mechanics.

Now do you see why it would be more practical to outsource Melee mechanics off to an entirely different game?

 

[zabimaru1000]

Let Ultimate get modded first. The modding scene would be able to differentiate itself from Ultimate like how Project M was basically it's own Smash game in and of itself. Having a mode wouldn't do it any justice IMO.

This is what I've been saying.

There's already a Luigi mod for Odyssey, I can't imagine how fast someone will mod Ultimate just to change Inkling's ink color to white or black. Mods will start small but very fast.

Next thing you'll know, people will start porting models or swapping movesets like the Ganonchu. It's always tradition for each smash game to have a Ganonchu.

Then finally, some dedicated soul would find a way to do more advanced modding such as adding in codes to change the game slightly and modding movesets. This is stage is where people will make mods such as melee mode, brawl minus, etc.

 

[BronzeGreekGod]

BronzeGreekGod , you keep oversimplifying what's required to make Melee-like gameplay work. Making the game faster by itself won't mean much, and new and revamped mechanics from post-Melee are better than in Melee.

And then if they somehow change all that, they'll have to balance the characters around the different mechanics.

Now do you see why it would be more practical to outsource Melee mechanics off to an entirely different game?

Well what I really want isall these smashbros charactes from ultimate to be in a Melee-like game.

I understand balancing could be tough, but as I've said, high gravity in smash 4 does a good job of improving the gameplay in itself. It's fun and relatively balanced. I know my title "melee mode" is probably misleading. I don't need every single melee mechanic to enjoy the game. I just want to have that back and forth feeling against an opponent, where every single move could cost you a stock, so there's a lot of quick evading mixed with attacking and grabbing. Like a fast paced rock paper sissors match. I think ultimate is going tohave most of the needed elements, I just know that gravity is one huge one, as well as endlags. I don't have enough informaton to say anything about endlag for certain, but I feel the fallspeeds look pretty floaty, and that kb decay is an eyesore.

Making a separate game with melee mechanics would be cool too, but it would be missing the whole point of getting the entire roster together. And see here's the thing too. If Sakurai used one engine repeatedly, balancing all the characters would be a lot easier than starting from scratch every time cause he could keep adding rather than redoing.

 

[Eternal phoenix Fire]

It's because melee's ultra responsive controls can make some people have some accidental mis-inputs, and smash 4's slightly delayed inputs (not counting active buffering) result in less control mishaps of that nature. It is worth noting though, that it is dependent on player dexterity hence the preference. Someone could be used to the ultra fast response that melee has while floundering in smash 4 because they don't know the buffering windows and vice versa with misinputs due to melee giving you direct control faster and not reacting/knowing that they can react fast enough.

I’m sorry, but that’s entirely incorrect. I play both games, and transition very well. The buffer window won’t throw a player off because the frames are off key, rather, all you inputs will just occur faster. There was a buffer window in project M, and in Melee you can buffer double stick DI and techs. Playing Melee has made playing all the following games in the series infinitely easier. Your reaction speed isn’t going to change because of a buffer window. It would only be a problem if you have played neither game enough to retain muscle memory.

And what’s that exaggeration osby ? You fall off the stage by pressing the joy stick? Are you kidding me? Unless you are Fox/Falco on the edge of Yoshi’s with the reflexes of an infant, I can’t see any conceivable way for that to happen. I played Melee just fine when I was 13 years old and faced no such issues, nor did I even care remotely since I was just having fun. At 16-17 I started learning the tech, still, had no problems. But if you’re telling me you can’t double jump and up B after walking off stage then I’m not sure if smash is your game, homie.

Please miss me with that.

 

[osby]

Melee was not my type of game and I'm perfectly content with later games since they moved away from that hot mess.

 

[Iko MattOrr]

I think you severely overestimate the competitive community. Every person I've played Smash with over the years has been casual like myself, and refuses to go competitive because of just how much gets cut. Stage Hazards, Items, etc are all removed to make things 'fair,' but to us, it doesn't *feel* like Smash. Making things more like Melee would not help things. Most casuals just want to have fun, not treat Smash like homework that we have to put lots of time and effort into to brag to others, we want to have a match with nothing but explosives on the biggest stage we can play on.

I played all the Smash games (excluding Ultimate), both casually, and (semi)-competitively, but I have to disagree about Melee being only for competitive play.
With my friends, we played both Brawl and 4 for fun, but at the end we returned to Melee, even for casual play.
The physics in that game are more natural, and especially explosions, they just work better.
You are fighting regularly, with items on: a Bob-omb appears and everything explodes. When this happens in the newer Smash games, it's just frustrating, while in Melee, it makes me laugh, because it's faster, more unexpected, and the effect is overall more hilarious (also because the voices of some characters are more "stupid").
Then, while you are fighting, occasionally a Goomba or a Re-Dead will appear from a box or a barrel, that's hilarious too, way more fun than summoning an assist trophy.
There are a lot of funny situations in Melee that are removed or toned down in the newer Smash games, that's why I think that Melee does better even the casual part... aside of the amount of content and recent games representations, that's inferior for obvious reasons.

 

[Oddball]

I keep hearing people talk about people who graduate from casuals to tournment play, but if you're going to try to attract people to tournment play, shouldn't you use tournmanets that are more closely related to what they're already used to playing?

I would think that tournaments should should adjust to what Smash actually is, not that Smash should have to adjust itself to tournamnets.

On top of that, if you DO want an injection of new blood for a new game, it makes sense to start everyone out on the same level instead of having having everyone that is already good at melee and has been for years be able to come into a game that's already 99% melee and dominate again. You want new blood? Do new things.

 

[osby]

I think you severely overestimate the competitive community. Every person I've played Smash with over the years has been casual like myself, and refuses to go competitive because of just how much gets cut. Stage Hazards, Items, etc are all removed to make things 'fair,' but to us, it doesn't *feel* like Smash. Making things more like Melee would not help things. Most casuals just want to have fun, not treat Smash like homework that we have to put lots of time and effort into to brag to others, we want to have a match with nothing but explosives on the biggest stage we can play on.

So much this. Melee casual content really feels barebones.

 

[Eternal phoenix Fire]

If you want my view on it, it makes people who want a Melee mode pretty goddamn petty and ungrateful. Sakurai is doing his best. You ever see Harry Potter? Melee mode advocates are almost literally Dudley.

Can you please stop pointing out “Melee” players like we don’t all play Smash Bros.? Jesus Christ.

You just constantly say off handed things, “It would take years for Mee players to learn arcade sticks” and any other smash player it wouldn’t? I guess it would be crazy saying that I already play arcade stick in Street Fighter 3 and Tekken. Where are you getting this information? C’mon man.

And no one made Sakurai out all this content in the game, so please chill on this gratefulness thing. It’s not a free game. You still need a switch, the game, and an adapter and controller if you want that experience. I’m not grateful to him, I’m grateful to my job that lets me pay for all that.

I’m sorry if I’m coming across as rude but all this hate towards a specific game in the series is really whack and makes many of you come off as transparent skill wise. If you believe that Melee players are elitist and are clinging to a game because of an inability to adapt or keep up with the meta, of a simpler game following Brawl mind you, then I’m not sure where to assess your skills as gamers.

For people who have took the time to sign up for a dedicated forum for a specific video game series, y’all make it sound like playing video games is really hard. Is it because of all the esports bougeeness? I don’t know, but it’s crazy.

Please, sit down and play the game in question, try to get better, see if you enjoy getting better, then formulate an opinion. But don’t attack the other player because they have a preference. Don’t you think people have already played the games? Most of us want the game to survive, and Melee for some reason is doing that; something not even the Street Fighter series can even achieve by maintaining a strong competitive base for an over 15 year old installment. And it’s not because of the fans aimlessly favoring it. It wouldn’t be smart to invest thousands of dollars for venues to host a game because you just “like it”, it’s successful for a reason.

This isn’t saying Ultimate can’t share the same success but for some reason older Japanese games tend to have longevity, like Melee, MvC2, and Third Strike in some cases. Maybe it was because developers weren’t afraid of taking risks. Maybe that’s what needs to happen; throw all caution to the wind and go nuts with it.

 

[Tollhouse]

I can see why people would think it's like making 2 games, but I'm not asking to completely change everyone's moveset. "Melee mode" was almost fully attainable in smash4. Adjusting gravity, adding smooth lander and increasing knockbac did a very decent job of making the gameplay feel much faster. A few more small tweaks, or toggles for players to use would be perfect. I think it's quite an attainable thing to ask for.

Yes but adjusting physical properties would lead to changes in characters' move's attributes. Adding things like more hit stun, character speed, fall speed, etc changes how a character plays dramatically, which would mean every character would need to be balanced a second time to include melee mode. That's my point. Some characters wouldn't translate well to melee mechanics if they weren't touched up. It's not as simple as tweaking physics and calling it a day. This is a lot more complex than special smash mode where we're making everyone metal or wearing the bunny hood. I get you aren't asking for a melee recreation but to do what you want, I can't imagine it would be a quick and easy feat.

 

[Oddball]

Can you please stop pointing out “Melee” players like we don’t all play Smash Bros.? Jesus Christ.

If you're in a pool and the lifeguard yells, "hey kids, stop running" you don't fire back "I'm a kid and I'm not running." Accept that he's talking about other kids and not ALL kids. Don't go looking for offense where none is meant.

 

[Quillion]

Well what I really want isall these smashbros charactes from ultimate to be in a Melee-like game.

I understand balancing could be tough, but as I've said, high gravity in smash 4 does a good job of improving the gameplay in itself. It's fun and relatively balanced. I know my title "melee mode" is probably misleading. I don't need every single melee mechanic to enjoy the game. I just want to have that back and forth feeling against an opponent, where every single move could cost you a stock, so there's a lot of quick evading mixed with attacking and grabbing. Like a fast paced rock paper sissors match. I think ultimate is going tohave most of the needed elements, I just know that gravity is one huge one, as well as endlags. I don't have enough informaton to say anything about endlag for certain, but I feel the fallspeeds look pretty floaty, and that kb decay is an eyesore.

Making a separate game with melee mechanics would be cool too, but it would be missing the whole point of getting the entire roster together. And see here's the thing too. If Sakurai used one engine repeatedly, balancing all the characters would be a lot easier than starting from scratch every time cause he could keep adding rather than redoing.

If SLHG is literally the only thing you want, AND you don't really use a lot of tech (as you're a self-admitted casual), AND you feel that HG is already balanced...

...then just turn on High Gravity in Ultimate. Low landing lag is already a universal buff, so the only thing standing between you and playing as the 70 or so characters in a combo-heavy environment is just turning on High Gravity.