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Except there is no reason not to cancel your hitstun. It's the exact same problem with L-Cancels: there is no actual depth added to the game.
DI helps, but hitstun canceling ensures that the player can act out and retaliate fast enough when launched at high percents. Brawl's implementation of the mechanic was given an overly forgiving window due to the game's "Everybody wins" focus. But with Smash 4, the window was significantly nerfed. Thus if you want to use Hitstun cancelling, you need to make sure that you're in a position to do so, and that only happens at high percents. It's a mechanic that exists to ensure that the players are constantly interacting with each-other even as damage rises, Zero to death isn't interesting when it happens too often, so there there needs to be something in place to make it as rare as possible.
Actually, you make a good point. But at the same time, since hitstun cancelling only really works at high percents, when wouldn't you use it? If the answer is just, "you always use it when it's available", then we've got a non-choice on our hands.
If this video at the invitational is an instance of hitstun canceling, I personally think this is a bit too much. Kill moves and 0 to deaths should end in just that. KOs. Traditionally, survival DI is what earns you your survival and hitstun canceling cheapens the whole dynamic in my opinion.
I agree, but that's not the fault of Hitstun canceling. It's because the move doesn't have enough knock-back to be a reliable kill move, which is a separate issue entirely. Besides, who's to say that he didn't DI that?
Do you really want edge-hogging to be meta again? Seriously, the Trump mechanics were perhaps one of Smash 4's best new additions. Like Hitstun canceling for high percents, Ledge Trumping ensures that the players are always interacting with each-other. It gives the player trying to recover a fair opportunity to do so, while also giving both players good punish options as they fight for survival. It helps make offstage play much more dynamic and interesting to watch than someone camping the ledge for a free kill. I'll admit it's implementation isn't the best. But with Ultimate's faster pace, and more aggressive focused gameplay, the offstage meta could be even more dynamic.
I’m not sure where you are getting this bias from, is it because I’m not acknowledging the flaws in Melee? There are several to point out; phantom hits, ledge roll gives you way too much time on the edge, shine is busted, the skill gap between the average player compared to veterans is heavily skewed, Peach’s Down Smash, doubles isn’t that great. Does this help you?
Short hop aerials do 0.85x damage, no modifier to knockback. In 1v1, items off matches, that actually combines with the 1.2x damage multiplier canceling both out, effectively dealing normal damage. Aerials not performed in a short hop will not be subject to the damage reduction, but it's unknown if short hop aerials will be hit by the damage reduction outside of 1v1s.
Nothing is ever easy.
And I just want the game to not respond the slightest move of my control stick and send me to death.
It realy should be. Why does everyone need to keep arguing. Party mode for casuals, competitive mode for ppl that wana go ham.
Wtf are u talking about lol
But Ultimate is fast, and as a...competitive wannabe (mark my words, Ultimate is where I finally shine) the new changes to the game seem to appease everyone. It has a lot of things Melee had like the advanced tech and faster movement, but all the other good things the new ones have. Like airdodges not sucking and getting rid of ledge hogging.
I think he is referencing that we all have different interpretations of "fun". I played melee competitively up til smash 4 came out and I can tell you 100% that I just straight up prefer the pacing of smash 4 (before bayo became a thing anyway #stillmysecondary). The reason everything is hard to reason is because of said differences in our preferences.
I hope you're right! I can't tell how fast movement is. And I can't tell how the kb decay will feel, or how gravity is in ultimate. One of the worst things in brawl and shash 4 is the floatyness due to kb and gravity
I don't know what he means by his button inputs being.. too responsive? I didn't realize responsive controls were a bad thing lol.
Hard to say how things will turn out, kinda looks like Melee ground movement with SSB4 air movement but with Melee's airdodge and much smaller ledge sweetspots. Has better dash dancing (actually more like fox trotting if you care to split hairs) and wavedashing (kinda sucks) and wavelanding (not as good as it once was but not was bad as wavedashing is now). It will take some time before we can see, but I believe the pace will be faster.
Ya that's what concerns me most. The air movement. But that's why ithink a "melee mode" would be easy to implement. Just adjust gravity, kb and jump heights and you're set. It doesn't have to be an exact copy of melee.
It's because melee's ultra responsive controls can make some people have some accidental mis-inputs, and smash 4's slightly delayed inputs (not counting active buffering) result in less control mishaps of that nature. It is worth noting though, that it is dependent on player dexterity hence the preference. Someone could be used to the ultra fast response that melee has while floundering in smash 4 because they don't know the buffering windows and vice versa with misinputs due to melee giving you direct control faster and not reacting/knowing that they can react fast enough.
Ya I definitely hate the buffers lol. Those btw completely ruin Ryu. I mean Ryu shouldn't even have clasic inputs, but with the buffer that totally messes him up. I like the attempt to fix him in 1v1, but how about when ppl play 1v1v1v1?
Thanks, that was what I'm talking about.
Buffer window toggle was actually a thing in smash 4 3ds
If you want my view on it, it makes people who want a Melee mode pretty goddamn petty and ungrateful. Sakurai is doing his best. You ever see Harry Potter? Melee mode advocates are almost literally Dudley.
Are u playing with pros? Usually my friends and I are all on the same pagewhen we play.
Nope, I'm an eternal noob.
The easiest thing for Sakurai to have done was to keep the melee engine and build off it rather than remaking the engine 2 more times. I get he's doing his best, and he's doing quite a great job on ultimate, you won't hear me bash him on it, but the whole "melee is too hard" crap makes no sense. Nintendo games have always been about being difficult to master. I don't know when it became about "fun for everyone" (which translates to easy for everyone).
And u always suck when facing anyone? Lol
O really? I haven't seen it lol. Does it actually reduce the lag to make it close to melees responsiveness? And where in the options?
It would have also been easier for Sakurai to just port Smash 4 on the Wii U + some 3DS content and call it a day. Nintendo has always been about fun for everyone but not even Kaizo Mario players have the same level of strain that Melee players have. He figures that there's a way to make the game not as strenuous on the hands but also wants it to be accessible to new people as well, and Melee isn't accessible to new people unlike Smash 4, Brawl, and probably Ultimate.
Sell fight sticks.
It's too late for fight sticks. I believe the Smash Stick we have now is still up for debate on whether or not it's legal.
How is it too late?
I believe it would take years for Melee players to transition to fight sticks.
I was talking about Smash Ultimate. Melee players can use it or not.
If you're going to have Smash Ultimate play like Melee then you're gonna have Melee players play it like Melee.
Because all Melee players are married to gamecube controllers and Melee never gains any new players, and no one who doesn't already play Melee would buy a new game that plays like Melee. Got it.
porting and using the same engine is NOT the same thing. remaking engines over and over is absolutely stupid and inefficient. im sorry people, it is such a waste of time and resources, and is completely un necessary. if it aint broken don't fix it... or in this case.. if it works, make it better rather than starting over lol.
What u mean?
Again, it would be better to make "competitive mode" a separate game. That way, they can introduce new mechanics, freshen up the roster with new movesets, and build on what Melee offered.
...you okay..? Your writing suddenly looks like you became an average GameFAQs poster.
And lose advancements like autolink angles, Meteors that actually work, and the ability to use characters with awesome mechanics like the Inklings? There's a reason for everything.
Again, what is with your writing? One moment your posts are written with reason and nice thought, and another you become a GameFAQs poster.
That's not what I mean.
Even if Sakurai did use the same engine, he would have made it not as competitive as Melee in anyway he could.
Again you assume that the main demographic of a Melee mode would be Melee players. A new game with Melee physics would attract many more players. Besides that, there are specific issues with the translation of a Gamecube controller to a fight stick that are contentious, but with a new game (with digital inputs to boot), an official fight stick would be much more appealing and accepted.
