• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

Melee Match-Up Chart (NTSC) [Update 008 - 09.09.28]

Virusbluemage

Banned via Warnings
Joined
Jun 16, 2009
Messages
658
the next spoc is october 17. my bday(prepares to get mud slinged).

i apparently flammed u. lol. i dont really mean to come off that harsh, but w.e..

id like to play u i guess. comparatively to ppl like kage, i suck. but i have a feeling we are at the same level. before u pile me with empty words, we should wait untill its disproven.
It's okay I forgive you ^_^. If kupo15(my doubles partner) can make it to spoc then I'll go, if he can't go and I can find another partner then I'll likely be there as well. You shouldn't assume people like Kage are better than you, a lot of these pros simply aren't that amazing and a large part of the advantage they have over lesser known player is purely psychological. I don't remember piling you with any words, I can't know how good you are until I play you(a concept Kage will never understand)


Ganon slayer? What type of scrubby Ganon do you play against eh? If it's not me nor Linguini/Chaddd then you are not a Ganon Slayer. You say you are too good at manipulating reads? Wtf does that mean, I'll just overpower you that's all I need. And you think my style is about reading the opponent? Lol you know nothing.

I'll let you experience what the warrior is like for real.
You don't understand basic concepts? Manipulating reads is basically using your opponents reads against them, they'll figure you'll do something and therefore you do something else to punish them. And anyone who watches your matches knows your style is about reads, most of your kills and such comes from predicting where your opponent will roll, tech or jump. That won't work against me. And are you saying you've changed your mind about playing me?(you've grown some balls?)
 

Nø Ca$h

Smash Champion
Joined
Jan 15, 2009
Messages
2,726
Location
Philadelphia PA
this was an amazing thread. lets keep it that way PLEASE.

edit:kage is my bff. stop talking down on him please.

no disrespect to u virus, ur mad cool
 

Virusbluemage

Banned via Warnings
Joined
Jun 16, 2009
Messages
658
:laugh:


You'd beat Kage senseless?



lol maturity ftw




lmao




You have got to be one of the most delusional smashers I've ever had the misfortune of coming across. Really, who in the hell are you? Do you really believe have the things you post? You're a troll, I know it. Its the only logical explanation for such unabashed stupidity.




Its not that people dislike outspoken individuals, its simply that people dislike outspoken idiots. So far, your attempts at creating a basis for sound, reasonable debate have failed. If there is truly anything the people in here dislike, its your moronic, inflated and agitating disposition.
And again, another idiot who assumes a player is bad without playing them or seeing them play, that's ******** dude? Lol at you making all of these comments about the lack of reasoning in my posts and yet you can't even make a single criticism about my posts, what specifically have I said that is actually dumb and why was it dumb? If you have something worth while to say then say it, if all you can do is continue to make dumb insults like a 5 year old then just leave bro, we've had enough of that.
 

Europhoria

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 24, 2007
Messages
1,476
Location
Toronto, Ontario
Reported, shut up and get out of the thread. 4 pages of you being every other post in some terrible flame war based on who you think is the best player now using 06 and some 07 matches is enough.
 

idea

Smash Master
Joined
Nov 24, 2007
Messages
4,123
Location
Come By Chance Mews
a lot of these pros simply aren't that amazing and a large part of the advantage they have over lesser known player is purely psychological.
i know i should stop responding, but it's addictive =P

what are you basing this on? who have you played in tournament that does well/that we would have heard of/isn't "WhoNeedsL-Canceling394"?
 

Virusbluemage

Banned via Warnings
Joined
Jun 16, 2009
Messages
658
this was an amazing thread. lets keep it that way PLEASE.

edit:kage is my bff. stop talking down on him please.

no disrespect to u virus, ur mad cool
Yeah, I'm awesome ^_^

And sadly a part of me still likes Kage too. I actually had immense respect for him before I met him on the boards. When I realized how much of a jerk he was in a weird way I felt betrayed.


And Euphoria has a point, let's try to stay on topic.
 

DtJ Jungle

Check out my character in #GranblueFantasy
BRoomer
Joined
Jul 29, 2008
Messages
24,020
Location
Grancypher
Hey

why don't you show us proof of your skill then

got vids?

or are you too afraid that someone will learn your style that you learned in lightning melee?
 

1048576

Smash Master
Joined
Oct 1, 2006
Messages
3,417
I always thought the 100 point system was essentially an easier way of explaining how much better than the other player you would have to play to win set. For example, 60-40 sheik vs marth. People have an idea in their head about how hard that is. Next time someone says a match-up is 60-40 you think to the sheik vs marth match-up, and you evaluate them relative to each other. The match-up chart is relative to itself. To say pichu vs fox is 5-95 means its just REALLY hard and pichu has to play a LOT better than fox to win (tbh though, i think that 15-85 is the lowest match-up this game actually has).
You were making sense until I read that statement. 15-85 is the worst matchup in Melee with respect to what? If 15-85 just means you have to play better to win than 16-84, why can't we have 1-99 to signify the worst matchup in the game? Do you mean that Melee has more even matchups than other fighting games?
 

INSANE CARZY GUY

Banned via Warnings
Joined
May 14, 2008
Messages
6,915
Location
Indianapolis
hey virus Pm me ask me things about anything, I want to show you something.

but let's go to ice climbers vs fox this is why this is a thread.
 

Virusbluemage

Banned via Warnings
Joined
Jun 16, 2009
Messages
658
Hey

why don't you show us proof of your skill then

got vids?

or are you too afraid that someone will learn your style that you learned in lightning melee?
We're having a tournament at my school this week. I'll record all of my vids, you'll see just how awesome I am.

Reported, shut up and get out of the thread. 4 pages of you being every other post in some terrible flame war based on who you think is the best player now using 06 and some 07 matches is enough.
Oh STFU, we were all having an argument so don't single me out. And enough with the flaming, how is it that I am always in the flame war and yet I'm doing the least flaming. Can't you people grow up already?

Edit@Insanecrazyguy: I don't really have anything to ask you.
 

INSANE CARZY GUY

Banned via Warnings
Joined
May 14, 2008
Messages
6,915
Location
Indianapolis
hey virus cut the crap man. talk about ice climbers vs fox or F*** off I,m calm when I say this.

BUt really pm me ask me things anything at all and I alreadly know you will ask a Q that you don't care about the answer so you don't learn anything makeing it a dumb question. But ask me why poeple think of you as they do. I am in a great state to ask about things to help you understand.

fox is hard to grab but them chain throws are fun. the shine messes you up but I think it's a little in fox's favor.
 

idea

Smash Master
Joined
Nov 24, 2007
Messages
4,123
Location
Come By Chance Mews
yo, lightning melee is legit. i used to play that with my friends back in 2005 or something. i was the only one who could control fox =D

in terms of novelty modes, though, giant melee might be the most entertaining. i think we decided giant sheik was the best. she can chain-grab luigi till some ungodly percent and chain f-tilts on pretty much everyone.

pika's backthrow was really good too. he pulls them proportionately far, so his backthrow brings you to the edge and whips you offstage every time. then his enormous fsmash hitbox probably completes the edgeguard.

and then there's peach's dsmash...
 

DtJ Jungle

Check out my character in #GranblueFantasy
BRoomer
Joined
Jul 29, 2008
Messages
24,020
Location
Grancypher
. And enough with the flaming, how is it that I am always in the flame war and yet I'm doing the least flaming. Can't you people grow up already?
You're calling respected members of the community idiots.

I'm pretty sure, to be a five year old for 10 seconds, you started it.
 

Divinokage

Smash Legend
Joined
Aug 6, 2006
Messages
16,250
Location
Montreal, Quebec
aren't ALL ganon players jerks on flameboards? xD
No johns =)

Yeah, I'm awesome ^_^

And sadly a part of me still likes Kage too. I actually had immense respect for him before I met him on the boards. When I realized how much of a jerk he was in a weird way I felt betrayed.


And Euphoria has a point, let's try to stay on topic.
I don't care whether you like me or not. People hate and people love, if you don't like the truth then too bad. I have enough love/hate already =)

Edit: Not meant to be an insult to my friends.

It's okay I forgive you ^_^. If kupo15(my doubles partner) can make it to spoc then I'll go, if he can't go and I can find another partner then I'll likely be there as well. You shouldn't assume people like Kage are better than you, a lot of these pros simply aren't that amazing and a large part of the advantage they have over lesser known player is purely psychological. I don't remember piling you with any words, I can't know how good you are until I play you(a concept Kage will never understand)




You don't understand basic concepts? Manipulating reads is basically using your opponents reads against them, they'll figure you'll do something and therefore you do something else to punish them. And anyone who watches your matches knows your style is about reads, most of your kills and such comes from predicting where your opponent will roll, tech or jump. That won't work against me. And are you saying you've changed your mind about playing me?(you've grown some balls?)
It's not psychological.. ya you are delusional.. it's called skillzzzz. And yes I can know how good you are because you've never been to a large scale tournament and placed well and thus you are not known. If you think school tournaments are gonna help you beat me then by all means.. you are too young in the scene. And as I said earlier, you know nothing.. if you think I "predict" where the guy is gonna go next then you fail, I'm not telling you anything. Also prediction works on all players, what makes you more special then everyone else? You are a human just like me. This illusion needs to end.. Pound 4 will be a rude awakening.. you will learn what the Top Players are really like.. Videos mean nothing.
 

Europhoria

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 24, 2007
Messages
1,476
Location
Toronto, Ontario
Kage is pretty flaming alright >_>

Fox's drillshine > CC by the way lol. Then you both get shined and only 1 of you grabs the edge while the other climber dies. If it's mute city you both just die
 

INSANE CARZY GUY

Banned via Warnings
Joined
May 14, 2008
Messages
6,915
Location
Indianapolis
wait he said he was awesome???? WTF you can't just come out of no where saying your awesome, my sig has a quote saying I,m awesome. BUt yeah this thread is out of control. get off virus your wasting everyones time and that's pretty sick to steal our god given time on this world
 

Virusbluemage

Banned via Warnings
Joined
Jun 16, 2009
Messages
658
I'd continue the argument with Kage but I'm tired and his skull is too thick. Also this thread needs to get back on topic. Good night everyone.

Against Fox ICs need to space him and then jab to grab and then wobble. If Wobbling is off then they should change characters.
 

Strong Badam

Super Elite
Administrator
Premium
BRoomer
Joined
Feb 27, 2008
Messages
26,550
from the fox's point of view i'd say it's 65-35 or 60-40, but most foxes (me esp.) are really bad vs. IC's so it seems more even.
 

INSANE CARZY GUY

Banned via Warnings
Joined
May 14, 2008
Messages
6,915
Location
Indianapolis
space him? That works but that's not all. nor is chain throwing. Thing that stops the ice climbers from countering fox is they can't really get de-synce combos on him due to his speed and if we could fox would get ***** out of his mind because the ice blocks would **** him.

And techically you can't space him he outranges you. fox's jab has better range than a lot of your moves.
 

Divinokage

Smash Legend
Joined
Aug 6, 2006
Messages
16,250
Location
Montreal, Quebec
Kage is pretty flaming alright >_>

Fox's drillshine > CC by the way lol. Then you both get shined and only 1 of you grabs the edge while the other climber dies. If it's mute city you both just die
Ya I am because I can be outspoken as well.. truth will hit him like a train. I don't care if I get an infraction or not. I follow the road of truth so that's what he will get. =)
 

Strong Badam

Super Elite
Administrator
Premium
BRoomer
Joined
Feb 27, 2008
Messages
26,550
saying "space him," is basically the same as saying "mindgame him"
 

Europhoria

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 24, 2007
Messages
1,476
Location
Toronto, Ontario
I don't think you flame people. I was calling you gay because of your warrior fetish. We should money match by the way and I still say Marth - Ganon is 55-45 for Marth, or 60-40. Watching PKM against your Ganon with Marth at the last Starfurry just leads me to believe the other Marths don't know what a Ganon is.
 

INSANE CARZY GUY

Banned via Warnings
Joined
May 14, 2008
Messages
6,915
Location
Indianapolis
i respect everyone till I have a reason not to. For you kage I have a little more respect for. The truth so to good 90% of the time 5% all right other 5% questionable.

dude I srolled up and down really fast and all the avatars were cool
 

Divinokage

Smash Legend
Joined
Aug 6, 2006
Messages
16,250
Location
Montreal, Quebec
I don't think you flame people. I was calling you gay because of your warrior fetish. We should money match by the way and I still say Marth - Ganon is 55-45 for Marth, or 60-40. Watching PKM against your Ganon with Marth at the last Starfurry just leads me to believe the other Marths don't know what a Ganon is.
I think it's even.. sure let's MM... but last tournament I played PKM he went Fox/Falco/Falcon.. no Marth.. maybe it was too risky of a choice? =P

It's not a fetish, it's who I am **** it!! It's the "Me/Ego" in all it's glory. =P

Edit: Why do you think I get pissed at nonsense that doesn't follow my code of honor or truth? I have to play a role or else it's not fun. =P
 

Europhoria

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 24, 2007
Messages
1,476
Location
Toronto, Ontario
Role Playing is kinky. I mean I was watching you in teams and also some singles friendlies at Sanuzi's against PKM's Marth. I think he just wants practice with his fast fallers in a tournament setting
 

Divinokage

Smash Legend
Joined
Aug 6, 2006
Messages
16,250
Location
Montreal, Quebec
Role Playing is kinky. I mean I was watching you in teams and also some singles friendlies at Sanuzi's against PKM's Marth. I think he just wants practice with his fast fallers in a tournament setting
No no, you don't understand, it's my dream! My childhood dream! A dream I don't want to lose because else I'll become a robot without passion like the rest of society. It's not roleplaying. Being a warrior is much more than what I want you guys to see.

Ya but it goes either way.. the only way to beat me with Marth is if you've played me for a long time. =P
 

Europhoria

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 24, 2007
Messages
1,476
Location
Toronto, Ontario
Clearly I disagree or I wouldn't even bother to MM you LOL
Marth has a lot to work with against Ganon. I don't think I ever saw you recover successfully against PKM's Marth. Against the American Marths it's like... 50% chance you'll make it back onto the actual stage LOL

People are uncomfortable with the match up and assume Ganon is bad and play dumb/terrible, or choke because they're scared of you/get scared after something happens to them from this character they thought was terrible.
 

INSANE CARZY GUY

Banned via Warnings
Joined
May 14, 2008
Messages
6,915
Location
Indianapolis
I understand what your saying, I can relate in someways, like when I start something I can't stop unless it's hurting someone. like i once randomly did about 30ish belly flops off a diving board, they made me stop. I wish I had dreams when I was a child
 

N64

Smash Champion
Joined
Oct 18, 2004
Messages
2,158
Location
Stalking Skler
Speaking of low tiers overestimating matchups, I believe pika v ganon is 5-5

Really in this matchup Pika's movement speed and ability to combo medium-weight chars, and Ganon's lack of a quick aerial (uair does alright, but doesn't have quite the hitbox needed) really hurts him in this. Ganon's hitting pikachu three times and he dies really hurts Pika, but that's mainly why it's even.

Ganon's hurtbox is huge, his aerial and ground mobility is lacking, and the majority of his moves are slow (though they cover a large area). Pika sometimes has a little trouble getting in, but his jolt and dashdance game is often enough. Once he's in and gets a grab/rising uair/whatever, Ganon is combo bait. And once Ganon's off the edge, Pika has very little trouble edgeguarding him. Jolts/aerials prevent ganon from recovering low, uair spike prevents him from recovering high. Pika has no such troubles recovering against Ganon, as the versatility of your upB makes it difficult or often impossible to cover all your recovery options, even with good reactions. Ganon also has relative difficulty catching Pika (unless he has a master ball, pokejoke!) and relies mostly on punishing pika's approaches to get damage. But the great thing is, pika rarely has to approach Ganon, he can just dash dance and throw jolts outside of Ganon's range until he sees an opening (granted yes it's then on the Ganon to seemingly create openings when there isn't really one, mindgames, but he doesn't really have much to do this with).

On Ganon's side, Pika dies early. You really only need to get like 4-5 solid hits (3 on yoshi's) and Pika is dead. Pika's a relatively small (and fast) character though, so he can get under and around a lot of Ganon's moves. Ganon can CG Pika, and a grab sometimes means a stock, it's just getting that grab is really difficult for Ganon. His wavelanding game helps with mobility some, but usually he has to jump up to a platform to do this, putting him above pika, which is often where he doesn't want to be (pika's uair is faster than anything ganon has and sets him up nicely to be combo'd, pika's usmash is brutal, etc).

From my perspective it relies a lot on Pika just being somewhat familiar with the matchup and not run/jumping into Ganon's aerials. If he does, he dies fast. But if he's patient, I don't really see much that Ganon has to shut down Pika. He's just too slow.
 

Nø Ca$h

Smash Champion
Joined
Jan 15, 2009
Messages
2,726
Location
Philadelphia PA
yeah kage, i wanna play your ganon w/ my marth. il lose, no denying that. but i think it would be a good way to learn how to slay a warrior. u up for it?
 

INSANE CARZY GUY

Banned via Warnings
Joined
May 14, 2008
Messages
6,915
Location
Indianapolis
gannon can only chain throw pikachu to about 20-30% i read that from magus in a gannon thread. it will mess pikachu up but it isn't like sheik to death
 

Divinokage

Smash Legend
Joined
Aug 6, 2006
Messages
16,250
Location
Montreal, Quebec
I understand what your saying, I can relate in someways, like when I start something I can't stop unless it's hurting someone. like i once randomly did about 30ish belly flops off a diving board, they made me stop. I wish I had dreams when I was a child
It's never too late to have dreams.

Clearly I disagree or I wouldn't even bother to MM you LOL
Marth has a lot to work with against Ganon. I don't think I ever saw you recover successfully against PKM's Marth. Against the American Marths it's like... 50% chance you'll make it back onto the actual stage LOL

People are uncomfortable with the match up and assume Ganon is bad and play dumb/terrible, or choke because they're scared of you/get scared after something happens to them from this character they thought was terrible.
Ya well I got even better/better DI/Better mix-up/better knowledge.. So right now I'm the Marth Slayer because of it and if you disagree that's fine. I'll prove to you why Ganon is good vs Marth. =P

Speaking of low tiers overestimating matchups, I believe pika v ganon is 5-5

Really in this matchup Pika's movement speed and ability to combo medium-weight chars, and Ganon's lack of a quick aerial (uair does alright, but doesn't have quite the hitbox needed) really hurts him in this. Ganon's hitting pikachu three times and he dies really hurts Pika, but that's mainly why it's even.

Ganon's hurtbox is huge, his aerial and ground mobility is lacking, and the majority of his moves are slow (though they cover a large area). Pika sometimes has a little trouble getting in, but his jolt and dashdance game is often enough. Once he's in and gets a grab/rising uair/whatever, Ganon is combo bait. And once Ganon's off the edge, Pika has very little trouble edgeguarding him. Jolts/aerials prevent ganon from recovering low, uair spike prevents him from recovering high. Pika has no such troubles recovering against Ganon, as the versatility of your upB makes it difficult or often impossible to cover all your recovery options, even with good reactions. Ganon also has relative difficulty catching Pika (unless he has a master ball, pokejoke!) and relies mostly on punishing pika's approaches to get damage. But the great thing is, pika rarely has to approach Ganon, he can just dash dance and throw jolts outside of Ganon's range until he sees an opening (granted yes it's then on the Ganon to seemingly create openings when there isn't really one, mindgames, but he doesn't really have much to do this with).

On Ganon's side, Pika dies early. You really only need to get like 4-5 solid hits (3 on yoshi's) and Pika is dead. Pika's a relatively small (and fast) character though, so he can get under and around a lot of Ganon's moves. Ganon can CG Pika, and a grab sometimes means a stock, it's just getting that grab is really difficult for Ganon. His wavelanding game helps with mobility some, but usually he has to jump up to a platform to do this, putting him above pika, which is often where he doesn't want to be (pika's uair is faster than anything ganon has and sets him up nicely to be combo'd, pika's usmash is brutal, etc).

From my perspective it relies a lot on Pika just being somewhat familiar with the matchup and not run/jumping into Ganon's aerials. If he does, he dies fast. But if he's patient, I don't really see much that Ganon has to shut down Pika. He's just too slow.
Umm.. maybe 5-5.. but it could be 6-4 Ganon too.. I don't have enough xp in that matchup to say for sure but I guess I can try to elaborate later. I've played Axe and Pikachad at Genesis I was generally winning vs Pikachad but not Axe so I'm kinda thinking about it right now.

Edit: Ok LunarNova =)
 
Top Bottom