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[PB&J]

Im pretty sure if/when we get into evo they will respect us enough to lt us use our rule set.

I also dont care if the door fee was 100,evo is evo and im going.

Apex montage should be out by tomorrow night. I have over 120 vids to go through

 

[Theftz22]

That would be hilarious, smashers put up thousands to get into evo and then no one shows up because of $70 entrance fee.

 

[Renegade]

You laugh, but smashers are INFAMOUS for *****ing about perfectly reasonable venue fees. Some tourneys operate at a higher standard than everyone bringing a cube and a 13" TV.

Im pretty sure if/when we get into evo they will respect us enough to lt us use our rule set.

If your rule set

a) makes the tourney way longer than it should be (i.e. RR pools, 3/5's, etc)
b) is crazy difficult for non veterans to understand (stage bans, striking, counterpicking)

It will be modified.

"working with you" is no items, and random stages based on the community standard. Trust me.

If you have the ability to move Gen3 and DONT move Gen3... that's a huge mistake IMO. Expecting players to take off two weekends (Fri/Mon) in a row or 10 days is beyond ridiculous.

If there's a smash stream all weekend, it'll be fan run off a cell phone or something from the BYOC area for casuals.


EVO's goal is to get your tourney run as fast and efficiently as possible so players aren't sitting around grumbling and then they can eat/enjoy themselves. They will use the exact # of setups they need to get the pools run in a certain number of 2 hour blocks of time.

Take MK9. About 300 players in 2011. They had 10 setups, running 5 pools at a time in 2 hour blocks. 19 pools total, in 4 waves. 8am, 10am, 12pm, 2pm. The winner and loser of each bracket advance to quarters at 4pm. whittled down a bit more... then at 6pm the semi finals on two stations go down to the final 8. Here's the full schedule:

http://evo2012.s3.amazonaws.com/brackets/index.html

During this time basically all the stations are used ONLY for the tournament. There were gaps in the 4th wave (2 stations were unused) and during the semi finals.

As you also can see, a few games run side by side. This will be even more clustered this year due to more games... but there were only two official streams last year.

I don't really expect EVO to change its methods very much. This is science to them. Attendance won't really matter, it's not like you guys are going to outdraw AE or Marvel.

The Paris does have an 80K sq ft ballroom, but I'm pretty sure they're not using all of it. Space will be a concern, but not so much as last year, for sure.

 

[Shimesaba]

It really seemed like you were trying to be helpful at first, why did you stop?

Our community has a large number of talented but unsponsored players from outside of the country for whom one 10 day trip to Nevada/California is a lot more manageable than two 4 day trips. A few people might feel burnt out, but I think it's understood that there are benefits to having Genesis closely follow EVO as well. (If everyone on EVO staff plans to treat Smash at EVO the same way that you do, then we might even need Genesis to make up for it, but nobody wants it to come to that.)

And if EVO doesn't want to dedicate any of their main streams to us for our whole tourney (not unlikely), I'm sure that there are people in our community who are willing to show up with their own streaming setups. Your "fan on a cell phone" line, besides being in bad taste, comes off as ignorant.

 

[Death Arcana]

genesis right after evo
is not such a good idea

 

[Redact]

snip

So they guy rooting against us spouts some stuff to try warn us/ward us away...

To me all it looks like your doing is some sort of scare tactic.


If you are genuinely trying to warn us, then whilst I appreciate that, I think that the EVO team will co-operate a little bit more than you seem to think.

They would most likley do 3/5's for top 8 or something only, maybe top 4 only. counterpicking not until outside of pools or something.

Whilst it won't be the standard sort of ruleset or a luxurious ruleset. It sure wont be random GFs with 2/3 games.

I'd presume people would cry most about pools since I bet pools would be random stage (out of neutrals) with 2/3 games or something like that to speed things up.



Also G3 right after EVO is amazing for any OOC attendance. There are ups and downs for having G3 right after EVO which is hard on some people (a whole week or more off is not easy for some) but really easy on others (1 international flight instead of 2, or not having to take a month off)

 

[Renegade]

It really seemed like you were trying to be helpful at first, why did you stop?

Our community has a large number of talented but unsponsored players from outside of the country for whom one 10 day trip to Nevada/California is a lot more manageable than two 4 day trips. A few people might feel burnt out, but I think it's understood that there are benefits to having Genesis closely follow EVO. (If everyone on EVO staff plans to treat Smash at EVO the same way that you do, then we might even need Genesis to make up for it, but nobody wants it to come to that.)

And if EVO doesn't want to dedicate any of their main streams to us for our whole tourney (not unlikely), I'm sure that there are people in our community who are willing to show up with their own streaming setups. Your "fan on a cell phone" line, besides being in bad taste, comes off as ignorant.

It's not ignorant. It's fact.

^^ This is the attitude that gets you guys a bad rep sometimes^^

I explained in full detail what happened to an EVO game LAST year... and said you guys would expect to get the same deal. I even linked the schedule.

Your reply "If EVO treats us like you want to, we may need Gen3 to make up for it". It's not how I would treat smash, it's how every game gets treated, esp if it isn't SF or Marvel. (Main stream will be all SF 1 day and all Marvel another, this is 80% likely)

That wasn't MK's reaction btw... It was a super hype tournament. Boon announced Injustice there too.

As far as community run streaming...
Vegas Hotels almost never offer free wifi. It's usually 13$ a day at best. That wifi coverage is usually only in the rooms though, and the "conference center" area is a different beast.

I even looked this up. It's 15$ for the room internet, 25$ for property wide, and 20 for just the conference area.

This internet is usually ****TY. Like... terribad. Not to mention it you're sharing it with hella people.

EVO will get special internet connection drops (and probably wifi codes) as a part of their package. These are probably T1 or so connections. These cost THOUSANDS of dollars each. At Richmond Convention center, it was like 2000$ for a line that had guarunteed at least 2MB down or some crazy **** like that. And they definitely won't let Joe random streamer stream off EVO's line w/ EVO's name on it.

That's explains where there was only 2 streams last year (and not 5 streams and 10 fan run streams).

With the added number of games, I can certainly see 3 streams.

Expect some stream time for sure! Every game gets some. Your top 8 most likely will be streamed for sure Fri/Sat night or or Sunday Morning. A couple rounds of pools, some semis. The difference in equipment could cause an issue, but they streamed Super Turbo off a cabinet last year, so it should be fine. The only SFxT streamed at ALL last year was top 4 teams.

Best option? Someone in your community gets a swank *** suite, springs for the good internet, then streams from the room all weekend, or during off tourney hours.

I'm not really trying to be hurtful, but to explain in a REALLY clear way that unlike Smash only tourneys, you will not be specifically catered to, and you'll be given what you need and no more. It's what everyone else gets, too.

For example, that 300 person MK tourney done w/ only 10 setups? What would be the reaction if a 300 person Smash tourney only had 10 setups?

Yes, I can be snarky here, and yes I'm not exactly rooting for Smash's inclusion... but I'm just showing you what you can probably expect, based on facts from last year, and just common sense.

 

[ajp_anton]

If EVO caps their number of attendances, then let the people who CAN take 10 days off go to both and fill up the EVO list, and the rest will simply go to G3 only.

edit: 2MB down crazy? Hope you mean crazy slow.

 

[Renegade]

So they guy rooting against us spouts some stuff to try warn us/ward us away...

To me all it looks like your doing is some sort of scare tactic.

While I don't want you guys to win, I don't hate smashers that much. I genuinely believe you guys are expecting APEXxGENxPOUND=EVO.... and it's not gonna fly that way.

I'm using facts and evidence here (check last years schedule), not scaredy propoganda.

If you are genuinely trying to warn us, then whilst I appreciate that, I think that the EVO team will co-operate a little bit more than you seem to think.

They would most likley do 3/5's for top 8 or something only, maybe top 4 only. counterpicking not until outside of pools or something.

Whilst it won't be the standard sort of ruleset or a luxurious ruleset. It sure wont be random GFs with 2/3 games.

I'd presume people would cry most about pools since I bet pools would be random stage (out of neutrals) with 2/3 games or something like that to speed things up.

You have a much better attitude about this than most. You see the reasoning behind stuff. The only way you would get 3/5's for finals would be that your finals wouldn't be on Sunday.
I'm less sure what they're going to do about stage. Random would be the easiest ruleset for noobs to understand.

Also G3 right after EVO is amazing for any OOC attendance. There are ups and downs for having G3 right after EVO which is hard on some people (a whole week or more off is not easy for some) but really easy on others (1 international flight instead of 2, or not having to take a month off)

I'm not really sure how many people in your community actually have jobs or anything... but that's a LOT of sacrifice for OOC attendance at the expense of in country attendance, esp East Coasters. If I ran Gen, I'd stay as far away as possible, esp if its' one of the top 3 tourneys of the year. In the FGC there aren't any major tourneys in the whole month of July.

If you're fine with just West Coast, OOC, and some pro East Coasters like a super regional or something? It may work, I just wouldn't risk my money running that.

If EVO caps their number of attendances, then let the people who CAN take 10 days off go to both and fill up the EVO list, and the rest will simply go to G3 only.

EVO hasn't been capped for years.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

"Common sense?"

Still sounds like an assumption to me (albeit an educated one). Let's win the drive and actually get input from the Cannons first. For all we know, they may give us a little more coverage than what you're suggesting, courtesy of the fundraiser.

No offense meant, Renegade.

Smooth Criminal

 

[Renegade]

"Common sense?"

Still sounds like an assumption to me (albeit an educated one). Let's win the drive and actually get input from the Cannons first. For all we know, they may give us a little more coverage than what you're suggesting, courtesy of the fundraiser.

No offense meant, Renegade.

Smooth Criminal

None taken. Obviously I could be crazy wrong and Smash gets the main event card on Sunday night...

You have a point of getting some love b/c of the donation drive, thats something I hadn't really thought about.

However, if you have the expectation that you'll be treated exactly the same as every other game at EVO, and all that comes with that, and are still completely stoked about winning this thing, then godspeed. I have succeeded in my task.

 

[oukd]

Interesting assumptions, Renegade, but I believe most of us are being realistic about Evo. Thanks for the genuine concern though.

I don't think most of us are expecting to get a royal treatment just because of their rep. I'm not saying that the tournament itself will be terrible/phenomenal, but rather that its quality is less of a concern as compared to its potential for exposure, in my book.

I do agree that smashers tend to complain a lot when things don't go exactly their way though lol. I hope that doesn't present itself very loudly if we do make it to Evo.



weeee900posts

 

[Vkrm]

If they weren't willing to work with us they wouldn't have put us on the list in the first place. Also it takes a long time to run a KoF tourney and they were fine with that.

 

[Revven]

Yeah, KoF took forever last year and got full Top 8. That's a good example right there. Three characters and it was all Bo5 iirc. Those last couple of sets between Bala and the Koreans were lonnnnnng.

Whether they'll change that this year I guess is up in the air, but last year was long lol.

 

[Renegade]

If they weren't willing to work with us they wouldn't have put us on the list in the first place. Also it takes a long time to run a KoF tourney and they were fine with that.

I mean, they didn't put you guys on the list, it got the votes. 4000 in the first fan poll.

As far as runtime goes...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKuOcCuJ0rc

KOF Grand finals. 3-2, 3-1. 9 games. 40 minutes. 4.5 minutes a match. Plenty of "Bala in the tank" time too. That's the longest game to run in the FGC.

It would have been fine, but they had to run 6 games on Sunday. They cut it to 5, and may adjust the match counts.

Smash can run fast when people are really good... but it runs SLLOOOOOOOW when people suck and can't really kill at low %'s very well...

Or use Jiggly or Peach.

There's a reason EVO in 2007 lowered the timer to 6 minutes. I don't expect them to fiddle with that much, but hey.

Ok. enough yapping. Classes are over, yay! (1st classes in grad school are hella boring. And long)

 

[thespymachine]

And @renegade and spy, as I said I'm going to do everything I can to work together with the EVO staff to make sure Smash at EVO, if it happens, is mutually beneficial. That means that it flows smoothly with what EVO wants while accommodating our needs.

I (and we, as a community) appreciate that. The closer we can get the tournament run in our way, the more comfortable our players will be and the better 'outsiders' will understand how we do things. And I'm sure there are things that the Melee community can do to help out to make things easier/better for those running EVO.

Gens3 being a week after EVO is kind of a huge concern TBH. "If" smash makes it in, it should move dates pronto. You don't want your shot at EVO's attendence crippled by a huge West Coast tourney 1 week later or vice versa.

Yeah, this is an on-going discussion within the community right now. We don't want to kill the attendance at each. There's pretty much a split in opinion throughout, right now, but I think with constant, good debate and discussion we'll have something worked out by the time or right after (if) Melee gets announced for EVO.

As far as runtime goes...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKuOcCuJ0rc

KOF Grand finals. 3-2, 3-1. 9 games. 40 minutes. 4.5 minutes a match. Plenty of "Bala in the tank" time too. That's the longest game to run in the FGC.

It would have been fine, but they had to run 6 games on Sunday. They cut it to 5, and may adjust the match counts.

Smash can run fast when people are really good... but it runs SLLOOOOOOOW when people suck and can't really kill at low %'s very well...

Or use Jiggly or Peach.

There's a reason EVO in 2007 lowered the timer to 6 minutes. I don't expect them to fiddle with that much, but hey.

Dang... GFs at Apex nearly took an hour, with two sets, and 3-2, 3-1 as well. http://youtu.be/iBMgkr-s4jI
Extreme case, but still possible. Don't want 2 out of 3 GFs, but I'd understand why EVO would make them so.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

"Bala in the tank time." LMAO.

Major props for that one, dude. I laughed out loud literally.

I think most of us understand that Smash is, ultimately, just another game on the EVO ticket. I don't think the Smash community expects anyone to bend over backwards and make exceptions for our game. We just want a teensy slice of that greatness and prestige which comes with being part of one of modern gaming's greatest convocations. I think that, together with the EVO staff, we can make something like that happen.

Smooth Criminal

 

[prog]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=15250477#post15250477

Also, as long as KOF was, I was glued to my seat the entire time.

 

[KrIsP!]

As far as rules go, they aren't that hard to understand if we were to have CPing rules at each group of set ups, besides other players are there to explain if they need to although I hope no one tries to take advantage of anyone.

As for friendlies, people in this community are no stranger to bringing their own tvs and as I hear there is a BYOC area...take it over lol. Your right though, there are issues but the more people are eliminated the less of an issue it will be. At least Renegade is bringing up good points while everyone is caught up in the hype but I think we can smooth a few things out between now and July.

As for the gen3 planning issue, I think that is an issue but I think it's something to be taken up with people who plan on travelling to both.

 

[Vkrm]

Hey renegade, why exactly are you against melee at evo?

 

[HyugaRicdeau]

My hope is that they tell us precisely what they are giving us, what they expect from us, and let experienced Melee TOs (e.g. Apex and Genesis TOs) fill in the details. If we have to work with severe time constraints, then of course we will have to consider an FGC-like format. I just hope they don't try to micro-manage the details or insist on their own staff doing everything. There are plenty of Melee TOs (e.g., me) who would be willing to be the main TO for a Melee Evo tournament and can work with whatever we're given.

 

[Renegade]

Hey renegade, why exactly are you against melee at evo?

Well, since you asked.

1. Super Turbo and CvS2 are my favorite games ever. (They've had their time in the sun, though, but I'm still biased)
2. Skullgirls and Divekick are developed by FGC members.
3. Smash has its own community, its own tournaments, its own majors. These other games? Their scenes can pretty much live or die by being at EVO (and hence on the EVO circuit). Smash will be fine regardless.
4. Smash Melee has had its chance at EVO.
5. Smash is 12 years old, older than the rest of the games COMBINED (that's even if you start SF4 from 2009, but AE2012 is only a year old). Sure, there are other olden games on the vote list, but some other newer stuff too.
6. There would little to no developer support for Smash (unlike Namco, Netherrealm/WB Autumn, Atlus, ArcSys who all give crazy support.)
7.Not a whole lot of crossover players to the other games. This can be a positive for other tourneys (more badges sold), but EVOs fine there. Means the crowd may not be into the finals, or may decide to go get lunch.
8. I think that smashers will demand special treatment, and may be pretty upset when they don't get it. Hence me posting in this thread.

That's about all the logical reasons I can come up with right now.

Smash does have a big fanbase, there may be hope in WiiUSmash, and it'll bring international comp...

SO, I'm not gonna be that salty if smash DOES win... I like the game casually, I've watched it plenty at tournaments I've ran and been at... even played in a few tourneys.

But if it's a choice between watching smash in Vegas or going to play blackjack?

Hit me. ;-)

 

[Melty Venus]

Well, since you asked.

1. Super Turbo and CvS2 are my favorite games ever. (They've had their time in the sun, though, but I'm still biased)
2. Skullgirls and Divekick are developed by FGC members.
3. Smash has its own community, its own tournaments, its own majors. These other games? Their scenes can pretty much live or die by being at EVO (and hence on the EVO circuit). Smash will be fine regardless.
4. Smash Melee has had its chance at EVO.
5. Smash is 12 years old, older than the rest of the games COMBINED (that's even if you start SF4 from 2009, but AE2012 is only a year old). Sure, there are other olden games on the vote list, but some other newer stuff too.
6. There would little to no developer support for Smash (unlike Namco, Netherrealm/WB Autumn, Atlus, ArcSys who all give crazy support.)
7.Not a whole lot of crossover players to the other games. This can be a positive for other tourneys (more badges sold), but EVOs fine there. Means the crowd may not be into the finals, or may decide to go get lunch.
8. I think that smashers will demand special treatment, and may be pretty upset when they don't get it. Hence me posting in this thread.

That's about all the logical reasons I can come up with right now.

Smash does have a big fanbase, there may be hope in WiiUSmash, and it'll bring international comp...

SO, I'm not gonna be that salty if smash DOES win... I like the game casually, I've watched it plenty at tournaments I've ran and been at... even played in a few tourneys.

But if it's a choice between watching smash in Vegas or going to play blackjack?

Hit me. ;-)

1. Okay, thanks for admitting you're biased.
2. Smash was developed by Sakurai and I don't see people complaining that the FCG didn't develop it.
3. Fair enough point. However, I think all of us would like to see smash among the big name FCG games.
4. I don't know/remember why it's not at EVO anymore. If it was, it probably wasn't for long.
5. How old it is is irrelevant; 12 years later and Melee is still alive and kicking. Surely EVO would like that it's still fairly alive.
6. And this is important how? I refer you to #5 (just add that we've had no "dev support" since day 1)
7. I'm not sure what you're talking about here.
8. Thanks for keeping it real. EVO might change the way Melee is ran so it's good that people know beforehand so that they don't get too upset.


What do you mean by WiiUSmash? There already is international competition for Melee. SSB4 won't come out for a few years either. I guess you'll be playing Blackjack this year.

 

[Scar]

Quick MIOM update - Episode 4 has been uploaded to YouTube here, and has been added to the MIOM YouTube Playlist here, which includes all episodes but Episode 2, only currently available on the twitch archives.

We may be back next week (Wednesday?) for a lightning round podcast that will be more heavily moderated and that will have a much tighter format, but we'll definitely have another full-length (2hr this time) podcast on Sunday, 1/27 - time still TBD.

Thanks all for watching, and for donating! <3

 

[Metal Reeper]

Someone will eventually need to make a post about how to act at evo . We are ambassadors of another country. Where is evo held? When? How many of our players will show up? Can CT or vgbc stream evo?

 

[Renegade]

I guess you'll be playing Blackjack this year.

w/ wiiUSmash, that's a separate point from OOC comp.

-it's not i have a thing against sakurai, it's more a "for us by us" thing w/ skullgirls and divekick. I've played in tournaments against Mike Z. Keits runs tournies in Chicago. They're friends in and of the scene.

Smash was at EVO w/ MLG in 05, apart of EVO lineup in 06, and had brawl in 07.

Developer Support is *awesome*. Not only do they add bonuses to the pot, they make game announcements at EVO, show trailers, field Q&A sessions and panels, bring demos for new/updated games, and just basically show that they care. Gives a lot of non-tournament reasons to be there. Ono apologized for the imbalance of SF Arcade edition at EVO 2011, and we had a major patch 4 months later.

Old isn't exactly relavent to how good a game is (I still LOOOVE ST), but for lots of reasons, EVO likes to keep it fresh and feature new games. It IS called Evolution, after all.

What I meant by crossover players is that smashers play/understand FG's and vice versa. It's not that hype if the crowd's not into it.



Oh, I play blackjack every year! That's called "Cross Tekken and Mortal Kombat finals"

 

[Vkrm]

@ renegade well a lot of points make sense, but there are a few things I want respond to.

I think we warrant some special treatment as far as rules go. Evo2k8 was the year we were laughed out of evo. That was the one time we went along with how evo wanted things done with items. All previous years things went perfectly. I cant remember which year but in one of the melee evos we had brought the highest attendance next to only marvel. Higher than both sf3ts and cvs. Even then it really wasn't us as much as it was the brawl scene that blew it in 08.

 

[Hylian]

I went to Evo 2007 for melee and it wasn't ran very well. Not to mention it was single elim lol.

Also what are you talking about Vkrm. Most of the brawl scene refused to go to Evo because of the absurd ruleset they were using.

 

[Vkrm]

Melee can be huge at evo as long as they listen to what we have to say. Really it should've been obvious from the start that listening to people who have actually been running the scene for the last ten years is the way to go. Thats how mlg did it.


And that's the first I've about the brawl scene collectively boycotting evo2k8. For real? It must been really hyped up. Do you happen to know how good the attendance was?

 

[Melty Venus]

Developer Support is *awesome*. Not only do they add bonuses to the pot, they make game announcements at EVO, show trailers, field Q&A sessions and panels, bring demos for new/updated games, and just basically show that they care. Gives a lot of non-tournament reasons to be there. Ono apologized for the imbalance of SF Arcade edition at EVO 2011, and we had a major patch 4 months later.

That sounds cool but smash just doesn't have that. Smash is not like other FCG games where the devs just patch the game nor is Nintendo in general invested too heavily into the competitive scene. I still don't think it's a good enough reason to not want Melee at EVO, though.

Old isn't exactly relavent to how good a game is (I still LOOOVE ST), but for lots of reasons, EVO likes to keep it fresh and feature new games. It IS called Evolution, after all.

Well, that's just unfortunate.
However, the fact that EVO would be willing to have it in its lineup says something doesn't it?

What I meant by crossover players is that smashers play/understand FG's and vice versa. It's not that hype if the crowd's not into it.

Did you hear about Apex 2013? A good amount of FCG players got pretty hyped up for Melee GFs. It may be an anecdote, but I've gotten pretty hyped up from FCG games' tourney matches. I don't even know what is going on but it's fun to watch. Melee is a pretty damn good spectator sport. Like, as long as people aren't being hard headed, ignorant ****heads, it's actually fun to watch without knowing too much of what's going on.

 

[Vkrm]

Somebody from the FGC posted in one of the donation threads. He said back back in the day marvel 2 players used to call melee marvel junior. Brawls hype is different. It's more esoteric. Melee has mad hype. Lots of speed and redonkulus combos.

 

[Acryte]

nm im a *******

 

[Hylian]

Melee can be huge at evo as long as they listen to what we have to say. Really it should've been obvious from the start that listening to people who have actually been running the scene for the last ten years is the way to go. Thats how mlg did it.


And that's the first I've about the brawl scene collectively boycotting evo2k8. For real? It must been really hyped up. Do you happen to know how good the attendance was?

The attendance was really good, it was all randoms though. Only like 2 top players went, everyone else refused to go(including myself) because the ruleset was like every stage with all items on high or something dumb like that and they refused to change it.

I'm pretty sure Mr. Wizard tweeted about using our communities rules this time though. And trust me the melee evo tournaments were nothing special, I went to them lol. Single elim sucked.

Somebody from the FGC posted in one of the donation threads. He said back back in the day marvel 2 players used to call melee marvel junior. Brawls hype is different. It's more esoteric. Melee has mad hype. Lots of speed and redonkulus combos.

That's strange, I've never heard that from a marvel player(I also played mvc2). Usually it's just the fcg calling smash a party game, even till this day but to a lesser extent now. I don't really care, just saying. Also, brawl finals at Apex were amazingly hype. They aren't always though, melee is generally way more hype I agree.

 

[Beat!]

If we'll have to run bo3s for the most part and random stage for every match, we should seriously consider banning a few stages for this particular event to keep inconsistent results to a minimum. Not necessarily advocating BF only, but maybe ban, like, FD and PS at least? I hope it doesn't come down to that since I don't think stage striking (or at least counterpicking) would be that hard to explain, even to complete rookies, but if it does turn out that way then we should at least discuss it.

Thanks for providing all this information, Renegade.

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

From what i hear/understand most good players/smart people in the fgc recognize melee as a competitive game and respect the skill it takes to play it. Hear its mostly random uneducated people in the fgc who hate on melee

 

[Strong Badam]

Mr. Wizard did at Evo 2k8 what the Brawl community should have done to begin with. He tested a minimalist ruleset, with as few things banned as possible. The Melee community did it; items were legal for 2-3 years before they were finally banned (the main reason being the exploding containers that could not be turned off, which is not a problem in Brawl). Comparatively, the Brawl community banned them before the game even came out. Who knows what competitive Brawl could have been with items legal? With Glide Tossing, Instant Throw (or whatever it's called), and all sorts of other interesting techniques that only really see use when a Diddy Kong or first-stock Zero Suit Samus is in play, I might even still be playing it competitively. I guarantee you a Meta Knight wouldn't be planking his heart out with a 4% lead if Food were spawning on-stage.
I applaud Mr. Wizard and EVO for having the guts to go against the grain despite obviously hurting his attendance numbers for what he felt was the right way to run his tournament.

Furthermore, EVO and the FGC in general has come a long way in tournament formats since the 2007 and earlier events. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think even then they were doing best of 3 finals. Nowadays you'll never see best of 1 or even single-elimination at a fighting game tournament, no matter how large.

I'm very excited to see Melee at EVO if it gets in, and will most likely attend depending on G3NESIS' dates. I have faith in the EVO team to put together an amazing event, we just need to get there first.

 

[♡ⓛⓞⓥⓔ♡]

You laugh, but smashers are INFAMOUS for *****ing about perfectly reasonable venue fees. Some tourneys operate at a higher standard than everyone bringing a cube and a 13" TV.




If your rule set

a) makes the tourney way longer than it should be (i.e. RR pools, 3/5's, etc)
b) is crazy difficult for non veterans to understand (stage bans, striking, counterpicking)

It will be modified.

"working with you" is no items, and random stages based on the community standard. Trust me.

If you have the ability to move Gen3 and DONT move Gen3... that's a huge mistake IMO. Expecting players to take off two weekends (Fri/Mon) in a row or 10 days is beyond ridiculous.

If there's a smash stream all weekend, it'll be fan run off a cell phone or something from the BYOC area for casuals.


EVO's goal is to get your tourney run as fast and efficiently as possible so players aren't sitting around grumbling and then they can eat/enjoy themselves. They will use the exact # of setups they need to get the pools run in a certain number of 2 hour blocks of time.

Take MK9. About 300 players in 2011. They had 10 setups, running 5 pools at a time in 2 hour blocks. 19 pools total, in 4 waves. 8am, 10am, 12pm, 2pm. The winner and loser of each bracket advance to quarters at 4pm. whittled down a bit more... then at 6pm the semi finals on two stations go down to the final 8. Here's the full schedule:

http://evo2012.s3.amazonaws.com/brackets/index.html

During this time basically all the stations are used ONLY for the tournament. There were gaps in the 4th wave (2 stations were unused) and during the semi finals.

As you also can see, a few games run side by side. This will be even more clustered this year due to more games... but there were only two official streams last year.

I don't really expect EVO to change its methods very much. This is science to them. Attendance won't really matter, it's not like you guys are going to outdraw AE or Marvel.

The Paris does have an 80K sq ft ballroom, but I'm pretty sure they're not using all of it. Space will be a concern, but not so much as last year, for sure.

A good post imo ^ However the whole point of EVO is exposure and publicity, not a perfect Smash tournament. EVO having to run so many games and having to recollect CRT TVs and Wii's/GC's probably comes with some limitations, like the probable lack of setups for friendlies.

However, EVO 2013 will be the best thing that has happened to the Melee scene for a long time. Melee is a OLD game, not that many people know that it's an extremely challenging competitive fighter with a relatively active and large scene. Melee is like Starcraft except it's not, and I want it to be...Starcraft. I mean God, I want Melee to be huge so bad, you don't even know. I think gameplay-wise Melee has potential to be so much bigger. I hope to see more tournaments like EVO in the future with big ca$h attracting more players.
Also, when I tell people that I play Melee competitively I want them to be like:
"Holy **** you play Melee at tournament level?" instead of being like: "...Melee? Is that the party game by nintendo where mario beats the **** out of pikachu?"

Melee is a good game, it deserves more

 

[rawrimamonster]

From what i hear/understand most good players/smart people in the fgc recognize melee as a competitive game and respect the skill it takes to play it. Hear its mostly random uneducated people in the fgc who hate on melee

Exactly true, it's only stream monsters who hate smash because it's all hype bull****. Most people with actual skill to speak off in the fgc understand smash and like it. But what can you do, stream monsters are living room warriors with bigger mouths than their skills, and yknow what they say. It's easier to dismiss something rather than understand it.

 

[KrIsP!]

I just want to say that though I haven't taken the game seriously for very long, I've been around for awhile and I don't like the old game argument. You call it evolution, do you seriously think the game hasn't changed since Evo 07?

Not to mention there's nothing fresher than a game people don't understand. If it weren't for the success of apex this year I don't think Evo would be half as interestig an endeavor that it will be now.

 

[jerflip]

Also, when I tell people that I play Melee competitively I want them to be like:
"Holy **** you play Melee at tournament level?" instead of being like: "...Melee? Is that the party game by nintendo where mario beats the **** out of pikachu?"

Melee is a good game, it deserves more

This, even in the Shoryuken donation drive thread there were references to Smash Babbies and the like