• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

Melee It On Me podcast! Join the MIOM Facebook Group!

Revven

FrankerZ
Joined
Apr 27, 2006
Messages
7,550
Location
Cleveland, Ohio
So, umm, I have some feedback about last night's episode. I know it was a bit special so there was no way everything would go swimmingly but I feel like what I'm gonna say is important enough. Not taking away from last night's success with the donation drive either (people should still donate today!)

Last night's episode was long, like way longer than anything before (and man even Giant Bomb's podcasts don't go on for that long). I understand the donation drive may have distracted from timeliness and structure but I want to cover this before it gets out of hand later. The Google doc to have everything laid out is good, but the amount of content covered is crazy. It doesn't seem like a lot on the doc, but as soon as you guys get into a deep discussion about something, that topic seems to stick for 30-50 minutes at least.

I like the deep discussions and everything, love them, but I don't think it's good for a podcast (or stream show) to be going for 4 hours. And part of the problem is because, so many weeks can go by between episodes (from either two weeks to three or possibly four depending on how busy you guys all are) so there's a lot to talk about. Last night had so many things to talk about... I feel like you need to set a line on things.

In the doc, for example, you guys had Apex discussion on there. That's good! Having the good, bad, ugly, etc about it. Then you had the Evo donation drive and the speculation of Smash at Evo w/ Skisonic. Yes, those two things are definitely connected and made sense for this episode.

But then you have Genesis 3 there... and we barely know anything about it at this point. I feel like the discussion for that, assuming there wouldn't be anything else until the next episode, could have been saved for Episode 5. You know what I mean? You have to set a line somewhere. You can't have these episodes going on for so long. They have to be progressively getting shorter as you guys start to get more concise and less off topic. And that will come naturally, for sure.

The next thing is about call-ins... I'm not sure how these things are ever going to work out, lol. Placing them near the end of the episode causes a problem where Scar, Prog, Sheridan, and Cactuar all want to leave because they've said everything they need to say in the episode. Placing them in the middle of the show, like last night, slows things down considerably (Skisonic didn't get on the show until like 10:15 PM EST or something). So I'm not sure what to suggest but they do slow things down because you guys have no idea how long x person wants to talk. Or what they want to talk about until they message you on Skype. That's a bit of a problem. It's just something I'd like you guys to be aware of that is causing you to slow down and lose track.

Previous episodes didn't have this problem (for good reason) but you guys were jumbled last night lol. Went from Apex, to Evo discussion/speculation, back to Apex, then to AZ about the smashboards aquisition, then back to Apex with leffen about the pausing and chanting, etc. Everything about Apex should have been at the beginning, the first hour of the show. The second hour should then have been about Evo with Skisonic (you guys then wouldn't have had to suddenly have him leave). And then the last 30 minutes could have been call-ins or questions from the chat about anything that has been discussed within the episode. And you'd be strict about the 30 minutes, not lax. Just an example of something that could have been done. That'd be a 2 and a half hour show instead of nearly 4 hours.

Just some feedback I felt you guys still needed.

Other than that, the show still was entertaining last night despite the clear distraction the donation drive caused! Keep it up! MIOM is good for the community. :)
 

Scar

#HarveyDent
Joined
Feb 11, 2007
Messages
6,066
Location
Sunnyvale, CA
^ not too worried about it

like oscar said in the other thread - "please snipe us"
So, umm, I have some feedback about last night's episode.
Yeah I totally agree, and have agreed in the past. A bunch of our episodes have gone long, episode 2 was IMO the most crisp, and we prepared most rigorously for that one. I think that the key to all of the issues you mentioned is preparation, and I mentioned it on the show, but again it's been super difficult for the team to prepare due to the holidays and Apex.

That said, we got this going forward.
 

Zoler

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 30, 2009
Messages
991
Location
Sweden
missed you this year buddy.
And I missed you and all the other awesome guys at Apex, couldn't afford it though and also my smash interest has been quite low during the second half of 2012, getting back into it now tho.

Apex 2014 for sure!
 

KrazyKnux

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 19, 2005
Messages
1,489
Yeah seriously. Or they could hold 20 different $5k pot bonus tournaments over the span of a year, and I'm sure that would draw in a lot of new players + competition lol.
 

Renegade

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 8, 2005
Messages
347
Location
Richmond, VA, USA
I'm curious to see if the smash community donates this much money, gets into EVO, and then doesn't show up at all due to EVO's venue fee.

What's changed since 2006 & 2007?
 

TheCrimsonBlur

Smash Master
Joined
Jan 2, 2005
Messages
3,407
Location
LA, CA near Santa Monica
The last time Melee was on the EVO circuit:

EVO South (128 - capped)
EVO East (64 - capped)
EVO North (43 - 21 under the cap)
EVO West (128 - capped)
EVO World (270 - 2nd largest event iirc? behind MvC2?)

We met the cap for all but one qualifier and brought in record numbers at the finale.

We did great in 2007.

EVO and the smash community has gotten a lot bigger since then, and if they give us the resources, I'm sure we'll deliver. Theres a lot of work that'd have to be done to make this a success, and the logistics are staggering, but we have talented people and so do they, so its possible we're looking at Melee's first 500+er.

There's gonna be a loooooot of new players.
 

Griffard

Smash Ace
Joined
Sep 13, 2007
Messages
748
Location
Geneva, IL/New Orleans, LA
Tried donating $15 but my address doesn't match my card which doesn't make any sense..?? I'm sad and mad but really proud that the community raised this much! Pretty crazy. I'll try again later.
 

Anand

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 20, 2010
Messages
282
Location
Cambridge, MA
I'm curious to see if the smash community donates this much money, gets into EVO, and then doesn't show up at all due to EVO's venue fee.

What's changed since 2006 & 2007?
What's the venue fee? (Approximately, if it hasn't been announced yet.)
 

R2_GP

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 29, 2012
Messages
317
Location
Tegucigalpa, Honduras
six digits? what the ****?

might as well just host your own tournament at that point. a $100,000 skullgirls tournament would draw way more attention than evo lol
I think he meant 5 digits lol, i'll donate more tomorrow, in the mid time can someone please please post the total donations of each game so far (not the link, i can't see it here in my work :[.... )
 

Renegade

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 8, 2005
Messages
347
Location
Richmond, VA, USA
What's the venue fee? (Approximately, if it hasn't been announced yet.)
It's 50 super early bird, then 70, and if somehow you've been living in cave and miss pre-reg, 100 at the venue. But they don't even advertise that as an option.

I wasn't really talking about #'s. Smash has always had numbers. I'm talking about 2006/2007 of Smash generally being a bunch of whiney whiners about rules, format, seeding, tourney times, whatever.

Then there was the great item Brawl debacle.

You guys do know this is going to be a 2 of 3, double elim tourney right? No pools.

No "friendlies" on the tournament equipment, so you'll have to snag an area in the BYOC area.

Honestly, I'd hate to be EVO and have to get at least 40 uniform CRT TV's and dredge up Gamecubes in 2013, but that's just me as a TO talking.
 

Vkrm

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 16, 2012
Messages
1,194
Location
Las Vegas
They said we could use our rules.


Mr wizard must be in a bind right now trying to find CRTs. Im guessing if we do win they'll have us run that **** on our own.

:phone:
 

Zoler

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 30, 2009
Messages
991
Location
Sweden
It's not hard to find CRTs, the hard part is mostly the transport, which should be easy for the crew of a tournament this size.
 

TheCrimsonBlur

Smash Master
Joined
Jan 2, 2005
Messages
3,407
Location
LA, CA near Santa Monica
It's 50 super early bird, then 70, and if somehow you've been living in cave and miss pre-reg, 100 at the venue. But they don't even advertise that as an option.

I wasn't really talking about #'s. Smash has always had numbers. I'm talking about 2006/2007 of Smash generally being a bunch of whiney whiners about rules, format, seeding, tourney times, whatever.

Then there was the great item Brawl debacle.

You guys do know this is going to be a 2 of 3, double elim tourney right? No pools.

No "friendlies" on the tournament equipment, so you'll have to snag an area in the BYOC area.

Honestly, I'd hate to be EVO and have to get at least 40 uniform CRT TV's and dredge up Gamecubes in 2013, but that's just me as a TO talking.
Thats a lot of speculation my dude.

I wouldn't be surprised if they just appointed a smash TO, gave us a certain amount of space, and let us do whatever the hell we want.

Or maybe not and we'll get shafted, idk. But at this stage its too early to say and I'd rather try and fail than not try at all. And if there is one thing I've learned from the smash community, its that hard work solves all problems. Especially in a grassroots community.
 

Scar

#HarveyDent
Joined
Feb 11, 2007
Messages
6,066
Location
Sunnyvale, CA
Yeah so a few things
1) on the topic of us potentially losing to SkullGirls: IMO if they win they will have earned it, and I hope that, regardless, we can work together in the future to promote Smash/FGC/eSports.

2) on the topic of potentially losing because of trixies like sniping and other secret plans: IMO we shouldn't worry about that and should instead just focus on doing the best we can as a community. The Podcast fundraiser was a huge success, Juggleguy is hosting a tourney where the entry fees go to the donation, and NorCal is holding at least one of those. Any other TOs who are willing to host a local fundraiser or a smashfest for charity, it will go a long way.

From where I'm sitting, I see Melee having several distinct advantages. Our community is extremely large, our player base is passionate, and our ability to organize is thus far unmatched. If we continue to have superior organization and execute on our plans, we can continue to post numbers that are double and triple other communities.

3) speculation regarding what will happen if we get into evo: I don't know about everyone else, but I'm planning on creating a relationship with the EVO TOs and figuring out how we can get SSBM to deliver value to EVO. If we make it in you can bet that we will be working together to make SSBM at EVO an integrated experience that provides a great ROI for EVO, great exposure for Melee, and an amazing tournament experience for our players.
 

Renegade

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 8, 2005
Messages
347
Location
Richmond, VA, USA
Being that I'm not in the inner EVO circle or anything, yes I am speculating. However, being that I've been at every EVO but one since 2005, and i help run pools every year, I can usually speculate pretty well. Also as a TO of a very large tourney myself (Civil War), I have some insights from that side of the fence.

I'm not really trying to rain on the parade too much. I am actively rooting against you guys, though, since I'd much rather see several other games on that list. I've even donated for ST (all 2 of us).


However, let me be quite honest with you. When Wizard said "your rules" he meant items and stage bans.

I would bet a lot of money on the following.

-The tournament will be 2 of 3 games, double elimination just like every other tournament. If it is not, expect all hell and the FGC will complain, especially Marvel, who is used to 3 of 5 sets by now. Marvel got 3 of 5 during top 8 last year, who knows what this year.

-- I expect a strict stage list, always random. The random stage list would be set by you guys, of course. Stage striking and special "counter pick only" stages aren't exactly judge friendly, and any non smash tourney veterans (of which there should be plenty) will be confused as hell. However, if two players agree on stuff, this could probably work.

-- The "pools" will be 16 man double elim brackets in which the top two qualify, one in winners and one in losers. The 2nd and 3rd place persons in each "pool" will have to face double jeopardy 60% of the time. Again, if this is not the case, all 7 other tournaments will be pissed at the special treatment, and they vastly outnumber you.

-- Just like everything else, when you're tourney isn't running, there are no guarunteed setups for "friendlies" unless you set them up in the BYOC area. THey're upgrading this area this year and should have more space, but you'll have to compete w/ everyone else. Don't expect a ton.
*** BIG CAVEAT*** since SSBM is run on CRTs/GC's and nothing else is, there may be some wiggle room here, but I highly doubt EVO would just let all the smash tourney stations sit there all weekend after the tourney and not use the space for something else. The tourney area is separate from the BYOC area, and the vendor area, etc etc. Space isn't as much an issue this year, but it still could be one.

--- The tournament will be run by EVO staff, using vetted volunteer judges (who have to apply and state their case). This is EVO, and it's pretty damn professional, so they're not just gonna hand joe schmoe smasher a name list and say "here you go" However, I'm assuming all judges who volunteer to judge Smash will be smash players from the community, they'll just be under the EVO tourney staff.

-- Seeding will most likely only be done based on performance at "Road to EVO" events, and nothing else. EVO has a very long history of being against "seeding by reputation", because it's inherently biased. This will certainly cause some "pools of death", where top 32/16 talent can be eliminated at the pool stage due to a bad draw. Welcome to the club.

-- there are only 5 games for sunday finals day. I'm having a real hard time seeing anything but MK9/KOF/TTT2/Marvel/AE.... but Smash has a shot if it outdraws any of those games and EVO staff fears another 3 hour KOF finals.



Again, I'm trying to be realistic here. The Smash community wants to be respected more than anything. Being a part of something as huge as EVO is a big deal, but most of your community is used to events that cater 100% to smash players. If they expect that at EVO, they'll be in for a shock. I'd hate to see smash win the donation drive only to experience some serious buyers' remorse.
 

thespymachine

Smash Ace
Joined
May 23, 2006
Messages
830
Location
Henderson, NV
Being that I'm not in the inner EVO circle or anything, yes I am speculating. However, being that I've been at every EVO but one since 2005, and i help run pools every year, I can usually speculate pretty well. Also as a TO of a very large tourney myself (Civil War), I have some insights from that side of the fence.

I'm not really trying to rain on the parade too much. I am actively rooting against you guys, though, since I'd much rather see several other games on that list. I've even donated for ST (all 2 of us).


However, let me be quite honest with you. When Wizard said "your rules" he meant items and stage bans.

I would bet a lot of money on the following.

-The tournament will be 2 of 3 games, double elimination just like every other tournament. If it is not, expect all hell and the FGC will complain, especially Marvel, who is used to 3 of 5 sets by now. Marvel got 3 of 5 during top 8 last year, who knows what this year.

-- I expect a strict stage list, always random. The random stage list would be set by you guys, of course. Stage striking and special "counter pick only" stages aren't exactly judge friendly, and any non smash tourney veterans (of which there should be plenty) will be confused as hell. However, if two players agree on stuff, this could probably work.

-- The "pools" will be 16 man double elim brackets in which the top two qualify, one in winners and one in losers. The 2nd and 3rd place persons in each "pool" will have to face double jeopardy 60% of the time. Again, if this is not the case, all 7 other tournaments will be pissed at the special treatment, and they vastly outnumber you.

-- Just like everything else, when you're tourney isn't running, there are no guarunteed setups for "friendlies" unless you set them up in the BYOC area. THey're upgrading this area this year and should have more space, but you'll have to compete w/ everyone else. Don't expect a ton.
*** BIG CAVEAT*** since SSBM is run on CRTs/GC's and nothing else is, there may be some wiggle room here, but I highly doubt EVO would just let all the smash tourney stations sit there all weekend after the tourney and not use the space for something else. The tourney area is separate from the BYOC area, and the vendor area, etc etc. Space isn't as much an issue this year, but it still could be one.

--- The tournament will be run by EVO staff, using vetted volunteer judges (who have to apply and state their case). This is EVO, and it's pretty damn professional, so they're not just gonna hand joe schmoe smasher a name list and say "here you go" However, I'm assuming all judges who volunteer to judge Smash will be smash players from the community, they'll just be under the EVO tourney staff.

-- Seeding will most likely only be done based on performance at "Road to EVO" events, and nothing else. EVO has a very long history of being against "seeding by reputation", because it's inherently biased. This will certainly cause some "pools of death", where top 32/16 talent can be eliminated at the pool stage due to a bad draw. Welcome to the club.

-- there are only 5 games for sunday finals day. I'm having a real hard time seeing anything but MK9/KOF/TTT2/Marvel/AE.... but Smash has a shot if it outdraws any of those games and EVO staff fears another 3 hour KOF finals.



Again, I'm trying to be realistic here. The Smash community wants to be respected more than anything. Being a part of something as huge as EVO is a big deal, but most of your community is used to events that cater 100% to smash players. If they expect that at EVO, they'll be in for a shock. I'd hate to see smash win the donation drive only to experience some serious buyers' remorse.
I like your observations Renegade, and agree with your speculations.
 

Scar

#HarveyDent
Joined
Feb 11, 2007
Messages
6,066
Location
Sunnyvale, CA
I'm not sure that we "want to be respected" - rather we want more exposure. We just want more gamers to know who we are, and what we are about. Whether those gamers respect our culture or not isn't inherently desirable IMO.

And @renegade and spy, as I said I'm going to do everything I can to work together with the EVO staff to make sure Smash at EVO, if it happens, is mutually beneficial. That means that it flows smoothly with what EVO wants while accommodating our needs.
 

Shimesaba

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Dec 2, 2012
Messages
81
None of that sounds particularly damning, although being forced to run Top 8 on 2 out of 3 sets would be pretty lame.

I'm mostly curious about seeding/Road to Evo stuff. What I've seen for other games is that it's usually well-established, regular tournies that EVO gives its seeding points to, but especially with Apex done and Genesis 3 not happening until right around EVO, it might be tricky to determine what smash tournies should offer seeding points.

If Renegade is still around, do you think EVO will let us designate some of our own smaller tournies to offer seeding points, or make us show up at their own Road to EVO tournies, or..? Seeding off of pure reputation is one thing, but I don't think retroactively counting Apex 2013 into seeding would hurt, especially if we don't have any other tournies that pull in lots of OOC players until Gen3.
 

UltiMario

Out of Obscurity
Joined
Sep 23, 2007
Messages
10,438
Location
Maryland
NNID
UltiMario
3DS FC
1719-3180-2455
Renegade all that is bull****.

Melee was really good for EVO 2007. Sure, when Brawl got to EVO it sucked, but Mr. Wizard even knows now that the FGC has had their fun with that and have no interest in trying to bring up a ruleset out of nowhere like that again.
 

Renegade

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 8, 2005
Messages
347
Location
Richmond, VA, USA
And @renegade and spy, as I said I'm going to do everything I can to work together with the EVO staff to make sure Smash at EVO, if it happens, is mutually beneficial. That means that it flows smoothly with what EVO wants while accommodating our needs.
"IF" they do meet with you, it'd be them asking some questions, you giving some answers, and they'll make a decision.

I mean, they'll only accomodate the 8th game at EVO so much, ya know. The show will go on with out without you.

None of that sounds particularly damning, although being forced to run Top 8 on 2 out of 3 sets would be pretty lame.

I'm mostly curious about seeding/Road to Evo stuff. What I've seen for other games is that it's usually well-established, regular tournies that EVO gives its seeding points to, but especially with Apex done and Genesis 3 not happening until right around EVO, it might be tricky to determine what smash tournies should offer seeding points.

If Renegade is still around, do you think EVO will let us designate some of our own smaller tournies to offer seeding points, or make us show up at their own Road to EVO tournies, or..? Seeding off of pure reputation is one thing, but I don't think retroactively counting Apex 2013 into seeding would hurt, especially if we don't have any other tournies that pull in lots of OOC players until Gen3.

With Melee match times, 2 of 3 is pretty much guaranteed. I'm pretty sure in Brawl they reduced stocks and the time limit due to melee match time concerns. I doubt they'll go that far this time, but they are concerned. 2007 Melee was 6 min timer.

As far as seeding goes, I highly doubt they'll let you guys use smaller tourneys for seeding. If you're lucky, they'll actually use APEX... but they've already stated that the 8th game to EVO will receive seeding points from Road to EVO events. SCR is happening this weekend, so there's only 3 of those left.

Gens3 being a week after EVO is kind of a huge concern TBH. "If" smash makes it in, it should move dates pronto. You don't want your shot at EVO's attendence crippled by a huge West Coast tourney 1 week later or vice versa.
 

Renegade

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 8, 2005
Messages
347
Location
Richmond, VA, USA
Renegade all that is bull****.

Melee was really good for EVO 2007. Sure, when Brawl got to EVO it sucked, but Mr. Wizard even knows now that the FGC has had their fun with that and have no interest in trying to bring up a ruleset out of nowhere like that again.
Haha. Everything I said is bull****, huh? Oookay.

The only point you're contesting was that EVO 2007 melee was kinda whack. That's totally an opinion i'm gonna get flamed on for on here.

Everything else I've gone into is far more logical and measured.
 

Scar

#HarveyDent
Joined
Feb 11, 2007
Messages
6,066
Location
Sunnyvale, CA
Renegade, there's something I like to say in these situations (someone saying that something cannot or will not be done)...

JUST BRING IT
 

TheCrimsonBlur

Smash Master
Joined
Jan 2, 2005
Messages
3,407
Location
LA, CA near Santa Monica
- I sincerely doubt EVO is going to run smash without significant community input and contribution. They're smarter than that. I'm not saying they will shove all responsibility to a designated Melee staff member, but they'd be foolish not to have someone from the community in on this.

- EVO has switched venues this year. They are at the Paris ballroom, a massive 85k space...for reference, APEX is 10k, and the old EVO venue was a little less than 50k. They're going to give us space.

- The fact that we're the only game that requires CRTs is a curse and a blessing. Its bad cause dredging up that many (good) CRTs is a pain, but at the same time, our game's designated space will never get switched out for another. Thats awesome.

- If we get the attendance numbers I expect, and if we get them early in the registration window, then we'll get some concessions in terms of tournament format. We'll have to sacrifice a bit in some areas, but thats to be expected. If our numbers are as impressive as I hope, I'm sure we can get the Sunday timeslot.

- I'd wager we'll have our own dedicated stream for the weekend.

....................


Most of this is speculation, but it all depends on how serious EVO is about a smash event. If it really is the '8th game' as you suggest, then yeah, it will be a poor tournament. We'll see.

Even after this donation drive is completed, there is a lot of work ahead of us.
 

N.A.G.A.C.E

Smash Champion
Joined
Mar 30, 2008
Messages
2,919
Location
NY (LI)
Not sure about moving gen 3 if we get into evo. It might be better since people might be able to take a longer vacation and go to both before having to go home. I am in a rush so i apologize if this doesnt come off making sense or well written

:phone:
 

Gea

Smash Master
Joined
Jun 16, 2005
Messages
4,236
Location
Houston, Texas
There would be something slightly poetic about the old 6 randoms being back. Wasn't EVO 07 also best of one?
 
Top Bottom