Megaman X: Day of Death. ~ EVERYBODY DIED. SCUM WINS. GAME OVER.

[Terywj [태리]]

I really don't like the direction this is going in, since I feel the grilling is stupid and pointless.

It's funny on how Overswarm calls me out on this when the post after reading through Pizza was saying how he understood I had legitimate medical issues and was absent for the game. I already posted my self-expectations for activity. Despite this, I still think he's town.

Being underconfident has nothing to do with any alignment. Look at Newbie, Pizza, and DRUPick2. I was town and I was underconfident. Look at Diddy Kong Racing, I was scum and I was underconfident. Until I actually play a solid game, I will stay underconfident. It's just part of my personality. Deal with it. I see where you're going with this, Nicholas, but you might as well just let Overswarm keep putting me down. You should not let this affect your reads, anyone else as well.

 

[Gova]

1. Inferno3044 (1) Circus
2. JTB ()
3. Overswarm (2) Rajam, Boat
4. Red Ryu ()
5. Circus ()
6. Analytical Buttheads (2) OS, Nich
7. Rajam ()
8. Nicholas1024
9. Xatres ()
10. Terywj (1) FF
11. Raziek ()
12. Boatchouli (2) AB, Inferno
13. Frozenflame751 (1) RR

Not voting - JTB, Tery, Raziek, Xatres

With 13 playing, it takes 7 to lynch!

Deadline is September 20th at 11:59 PM EST (GMT-5).

 

[Overswarm]

Deadline in votecounts please.

 

[Nicholas1024]

You misunderstand, OS. The assumption is simply that as town he's telling the truth (as I highly doubt a beginner town player would lie for no reason), and as mafia he's lying (or at the least using it as an excuse.) So if he's town, the reasoning was that you're further undermining his confidence by pointing it out, while if he's mafia you're propping up his excuse for him, either way a negative outcome for town. And yes, Tery might not be a bad "we need a lynch" candidate at some point down the line, but we don't exactly have a shortage of those at the moment.

 

[Overswarm]

You misunderstand, OS. The assumption is simply that as town he's telling the truth (as I highly doubt a beginner town player would lie for no reason), and as mafia he's lying (or at the least using it as an excuse.) So if he's town, the reasoning was that you're further undermining his confidence by pointing it out, while if he's mafia you're propping up his excuse for him, either way a negative outcome for town. And yes, Tery might not be a bad "we need a lynch" candidate at some point down the line, but we don't exactly have a shortage of those at the moment.

I think you should carefully read what you just wrote, then go through the process of Tery being mafia, and wonder what the implications are given what I've just done.

 

[Nicholas1024]

Anyway, here's what I was setting up with my post with all the Circus quotes. What caught my eye was that Tery unvoted Ryker with more or less very little reasoning. Let's put the unvote into context.

*snip*
12. Boatchouli (4) FF, AB, Tery, Inferno

At least one person on this [Ryker's] wagon is being opportunistic.

Vote: Inferno

Tery can die. But that's a job for a vig, if anyone, the way I see it right now.

I attribute your initial wagon almost entirely to people being in RVS mode. The Boat wagon seems to have formed very suddenly, and with no reason given that I find worthwhile. It's possible that there were also opportunistic people on your wagon, but Boat's feels more telling. Four people are on that wagon, and they all seem to think they have a decent reason to be there, and none of them do.

Why not JTB or Xartes or Tery or *glances at player list* Raziek (he's in this game?) if that's the case? So far, I would assume all of them to be similarly useless this game. But I also wouldn't really consider any of them a threat to scum, where as Ryker could be. That's why this is bothering me. Would you not consider Rykertown to be an asset if we have him?

*snip*

Yes, I think Ryker's just being Ryker. He's always antagonistic; it's not a scumtell. I know nothing about Moth. I may be projecting too much, but I consider attacks on things like Ryker's pic posting and "emotional" responses and antagonistic style to be fishy, because they remind me of myself in Super Heroes. It doesn't take much effort to point at a player with a playstyle that people don't like and try to turn town against them purely on that basis. All the better if it's a player that is good at finding scum. And then, when he's dead, you can just say "well, we're better off without having to worry about him anyway."

And then Tery unvoted, saying

Unvote

Ugh. Ryker is throwing me off, per usual. Rereading AB / Rajam and company.

Here's the scum explanation:

Tery (by the playerslot's own claim) lacks confidence regardless of alignment. (I'll assume he's telling the truth in this analysis, as else he's lying which is a pretty obvious scum tell anyway.) As the Ryker wagon looked to be an easy one to join (I had been pushing it somewhat as a very vocal townie, and Ryker wasn't exactly offering much of a defense), Tery joined it to blend in. However, since some backlash formed by Circus (see above quotes), as well as me more or less leaving the wagon be and OS saying that it was Ryker being Ryker and a null tell, it wasn't exactly a "safe" place to put a vote any longer, so Tery immediately left it, claiming Ryker was throwing him off.

In response to my questions about any strong stances taken and whether the unvote was bad, here was Tery's response:

1) Ryker was my original scum pick--we all know where that went--while you and Overswarm composed my more definite town picks. I don't know what else you mean from that. I also don't like Red Ryu for lack of content and activity, more specifically with the way he posted while seemingly ignoring obvious content. Just some quote examples for Red Ryu, since a Ryker evaluation would be pretty pointless ATM.

So basically, the only strong stances he'd given were town reads on me/OS (really easy and uncontroversial stuff) as well as the Ryker suspicion.

2) I thought my process for voting Ryker was bad, but not the unvote. I voted originally because I was frustrated at the way Ryker was posting and how he wasn't contributing (hence why I agreed with Overswarm's "lynch Ryker > shot in the dark" message). But afterwards I realized that stupid play and lack of contribution does not necessarily constitiute one's alignment--especially as a self-teaching principle in regards that I'm still learning how to actively contribute.

And regarding the Ryker unvote, Tery claims the unvote was good but the vote was bad, distancing himself from the Ryker wagon.

I think the pieces fit together well enough here to merit further investigation.

Unvote,

Vote: Tery

 

[Nicholas1024]

I think you should carefully read what you just wrote, then go through the process of Tery being mafia, and wonder what the implications are given what I've just done.

Ah, I think I see what you're getting at.

 

[Overswarm]

Ah, I think I see what you're getting at.

Good, because I'll quiz you later.
unvote vote: Tery

I'll bite for now, see where this goes. I would rather someone other than us take point on this one though, as we've been the only talking players for some time now.

 

[Analytical Buttheads]

At least one person on this wagon is being opportunistic.

Vote: Inferno

Tery can die. But that's a job for a vig, if anyone, the way I see it right now.

Why inferno circus?

 

[Rajam]

@Nick: At the time of my posting, I didn't have any firm readings on anyone. However, the exchange between OS and AB is becoming interesting. I think AB is holding us up a bit by not putting pressure on people, although, conversely, his withholding information is also giving us a lot of material to read those who attack him. I'd like to put a pressure vote on him, but I'm not sure where the votes stand right now.

@Mod: Request votecount

FoS: Xatres

This post looks like noob-scum. Insecurity, use of word "interesting" in an odd way (like you saw something scummy, but you really didn't), just parroting what OS said, no pressure at all on anyone

Xatres what do you think of my case on OS? do you or do you not agree with it?

---

Also OS, are you telling me you got a town read on AB based on only 1 post containing a joke-picture? (this is an answer to your #208)

 

[Nicholas1024]

I think we're on the same page OS. But yeah, to make sure this gets due attention...

@Just about everyone aside from me/OS/Tery
I want your thoughts on the case and Tery's play in general.

 

[Nicholas1024]

Of course, I want Tery's response to the case as well, but I'd like other people's opinions on it.

 

[Xatres]

FoS: Xatres

This post looks like noob-scum. Insecurity, use of word "interesting" in an odd way (like you saw something scummy, but you really didn't), just parroting what OS said, no pressure at all on anyone

Xatres what do you think of my case on OS? do you or do you not agree with it?

---

Also OS, are you telling me you got a town read on AB based on only 1 post containing a joke-picture? (this is an answer to your #208)

I'll reread your posts and get you an answer sometime today. There's a lot going on between your posts and everyone elses. Right now I have to say that I've got a town-read on OS, as his arguments seem to be logical and he doesn't seem to be making any anti-town actions. Same goes for Nick. Both of them are actively scum-hunting and engaging in intelligent conversation. That's a good sign in my book.

I really don't like the direction this is going in, since I feel the grilling is stupid and pointless.

Grilling is almost never stupid and pointless, as it can garner us information about both the griller and the grillee.

@Tery: Can you elaborate on why you think this particular incident of grilling is unproductive or on what you think unproductive grilling looks like in general?

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Grilling is almost never stupid and pointless, as it can garner us information about both the griller and the grillee.

@Tery: Can you elaborate on why you think this particular incident of grilling is unproductive or on what you think unproductive grilling looks like in general?

Oh yeah because having someone continuously insult me or bring up bad play is definitely productive?

 

[Inferno3044]

This is a bit of a loaded question, but Ryker will be useless for most of the early game. He picks up the pace later on, but he hasn't had the best track record with reads as of late. I just finished reading Super Heroes mafia where he was in a hydra with Swiss as Radical Fiction; it picked up the pace as the game went on, but then Swiss dropped out and the playerslot's effectiveness wore off after that.

Are you trying to set up a policy lynch?

I want to know how Ryker generally plays because this is VERY different from his play in uPick. Although he was scum in that, he immediately started by posting his stance on people and actually said things to contribute to the game from the start. Also stating that he is a late game player is good knowledge. We lynched Sold on D1 and he said that he is a late game player. I don't want to make the same mistake again.

I think we're on the same page OS. But yeah, to make sure this gets due attention...

@Just about everyone aside from me/OS/Tery
I want your thoughts on the case and Tery's play in general.

I have mixed feelings about Tery. He is getting a little too defensive regarding OS's points about him not being a good mafia player yet and to me it's AtE. On the other hand, he has posted his reads of the entire roster which is nice information. For now I think he's null and maybe leaning a tiny bit toward scum. I want to see how things develop before I put a vote.

@mod - Request mass prod

 

[Overswarm]

I want to know how Ryker generally plays because this is VERY different from his play in uPick. Although he was scum in that, he immediately started by posting his stance on people and actually said things to contribute to the game from the start. Also stating that he is a late game player is good knowledge. We lynched Sold on D1 and he said that he is a late game player. I don't want to make the same mistake again.

How is that a mistake? I'm a late game player. I started getting targetted for a kill every game before D3 and switched my playstyle around to be more of an early game player. Their fault for making themselves targets

 

[Inferno3044]

How is that a mistake? I'm a late game player. I started getting targetted for a kill every game before D3 and switched my playstyle around to be more of an early game player. Their fault for making themselves targets

Sold was voted due to inactivity if that justifies anything. He also claimed, got active near the end of D1, and his posts all gave solid posts except for his very first due to a restriction. Personally I would've rather had soup lynched due to inactivity that game but people were too stubborn to move their vote. But you are saying this is typical for Ryker to do even as town. I don't have meta-knowledge on him like you do and his play right now seems anti-town.

 

[Overswarm]

If we were playing in a vaccuum, sure, but what about his play makes you want to lynch him over others?

@mod request prod on Raziek

 

[Xatres]

@Rajam: You're argument against OS seemed to boil down to a single statement.

Only Mafia knows who is and who isn't Mafia

Obviously you've given a more nuanced explanation here:

That response half-convinces me, and half-not. You're just explaining the motives of AB with the picture, which I got before, and then in an implicit way you explain your motives with your post: the "callout": don't put a target on me just because you're afraid of me. that's the half that's ok. But then, there should be an evaluation: is that a legit town concern towards me, or is it just scum-AB trying to paint a target on me? You seemed to skip this part, because your response was pretty one-sided in the assumption that it was a legit town concern towards you,



and then again, only Mafia knows who is and isn't Mafia... it's a sort of a freudian slip as I see it

While I do not think that this is a terrible starting point for an argument against OS, I don't think it's enough for a lynch without more evidence. After pushing this one case for several pages, I think if OS were mafia we would have seen some other indication by now. Granted, OS is a talented player, and if he were scum he would be unlikely to make another slip at this stage. However, him being a talented player does not mean that one possible slip is enough for a lynch. Overall his game has been very pro-town.

Ultimately, looking at OS's original statement, it sounds more like a sarcastic mark by a confident player than anything else.

I think we're on the same page OS. But yeah, to make sure this gets due attention...

@Just about everyone aside from me/OS/Tery
I want your thoughts on the case and Tery's play in general.

Getting a scum-read on Tery. S/he's is being far too sensitive about people pointing out her bad play, even when she's been doing it herself the whole game. I find it hard to swallow that she can attack others for repeatedly pointing out her bad play while still using it as a personal defense. Kind of a double standard if you ask me.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

raziek isn't getting a prod, he's getting a full-fledged boot up his ***.

 

[Inferno3044]

If we were playing in a vaccuum, sure, but what about his play makes you want to lynch him over others?

@mod request prod on Raziek

Who do you include as the others?

 

[Overswarm]

Who do you include as the others?

The other people in this game? What else would I mean by "others"?

 

[Rajam]

Point to where. No one ever questioned AM on what they meant in regards to specific posts. The one or two times it was mentioned, it was quickly cleared up. No, that's a recurring theme with that hydra that will occur again.

Now you're saying there is a complete lack of content when there is obviously not. And I really am ****ing tired of these mother ****ing snakes in my mother ****ing boots.

Scum team is Nich, OS, and AB. Calling it.

Nah, scum team is Xatres/OS/you

Nich do we lynch Ryker?

 

[Inferno3044]

The other people in this game? What else would I mean by "others"?

I just thought by others that you had people in mind. At the time I voted he was only person I saw as anti-town, but according to you this is typical of him and a null tell. As for voting an inactive, we still have a week until the deadline. Too early imo

 

[Nicholas1024]

@Rajam
I'm tempted, but not quite certain yet. We definitely vig Ryker, but I think it'd be premature to make him the lynch choice for today.

 

[Raziek]

Full-fledged boot up the *** received. Reading now.

 

[Xatres]

Nah, scum team is Xatres/OS/you

Nich do we lynch Ryker?

@Rajam: Care to share the reasons for this particular scum team combination?

 

[Raziek]

Ok, so...

*Looks at playerlist*

I like OS, Circus, and Nich.

Dislike Red Ryu. Abnormally low content level given his typical playstyle. Exchange with Ryker not necessarily indicative of any alignment, but interesting to note, given the amount of content produced by the two of them is essentially only that argument.

Dislike Boatchouli, but not willing to call them scum because I know how Ryker works. If this lasts into Day 3, he should die.

Null on Analytical Buttheads. Intent to ensure that everyone posted during RVS seems pro-Town to me, but he's essentially been quiet since his exchange with OS, as OS himself has already pointed out.

Rajam, Xatres and Frozenflame have all made posts that don't sit well with me. Xatres needs to post more (oh the irony, coming from me), and Rajam needs to deliver a solid stance.

Actually, I like this direction:

Rajam, you've been strangely focused on OS. Let's look at the content of your posts:

So... you basically confirm AB is not mafia?

Only Mafia knows who is and who isn't Mafia

=> vote: Overswarm

You open with a pseudo-RVS vote on Overswarm, based solely on banter between he and AB.

mmm I kinda got stuck watching this response over and over again. OS could you tell why did you put this? (again please if it comes to it)

Your next actual content post shows up here, when you bring up something that OS had posted long before the current discussion at hand.

Why did you post if you had nothing to contribute? You also weren't at "risk" of being prodded... something's not right here...

In the same post, you address Xatres in a very passive-agressive manner. This feels to me like you're trying to make him fear you a little bit, which comes up again in a moment.

That response half-convinces me, and half-not. You're just explaining the motives of AB with the picture, which I got before, and then in an implicit way you explain your motives with your post: the "callout": don't put a target on me just because you're afraid of me. that's the half that's ok. But then, there should be an evaluation: is that a legit town concern towards me, or is it just scum-AB trying to paint a target on me? You seemed to skip this part, because your response was pretty one-sided in the assumption that it was a legit town concern towards you,

and then again, only Mafia knows who is and isn't Mafia... it's a sort of a freudian slip as I see it

This isn't a freudian slip, this is you trying to paint a big target on OS here. If OS is Town, he could just as easily think Adum is after him because of his normal scum play. His comment isn't indicative of his alignment, and you really can't draw anything from it other than WIFOM.

FoS: Xatres

This post looks like noob-scum. Insecurity, use of word "interesting" in an odd way (like you saw something scummy, but you really didn't), just parroting what OS said, no pressure at all on anyone

Xatres what do you think of my case on OS? do you or do you not agree with it?

---

Also OS, are you telling me you got a town read on AB based on only 1 post containing a joke-picture? (this is an answer to your #208)

Nah, scum team is Xatres/OS/you

Nich do we lynch Ryker?

These two posts sent up HUGE red flags.

Once again you're drawn back to Xatres. And I find it interesting that you choose to FoS him here. It's a convenient way to draw attention to him without actually starting a wagon on him.

This is further compounded by you asking him what he thinks of your "case" (lol) on Overswarm. This reads to me like you're trying to buy a relatively "new" player into your case.

Then right after that, you're trying to get hyper-aggro Nich onto a policy lynch on Ryker?

Your play smells, Rajam.

vote: Rajam

 

[Circus]

Just finished reading that game.

Did you know you had a 100% fail rate in reads and who your vote was on at the end of the Day?

Harsh.

Why inferno circus?

Generally speaking, the later on the wagon one is, the more opportunistic it seems. Inferno had expressed some very light distaste for Boat's play earlier, but he didn't lay his vote on him until others got some momentum going on him first. His generally fluffy/safe play already had me arching an eyebrow at him anyway.

Really, my vote could almost as easily go on Tery, especially considering the point Nich brought up in his 246. But, like I said, I think I'd prefer him as vig fodder at this point. Plus, I'm not completely comfortable with Nich, so I don't feel great about following his lead on Tery just because he's making a decent point.

 

[Nicholas1024]

Alright, feel a good bit better about Raziek with that post, he makes a good point on Rajam.

@Raziek, Rajam
Thoughts on the case against Tery?

@Circus
So let me get this straight, if you did feel comfortable with me as a town read, you'd be more inclined to join the Tery wagon? That feels a bit odd.

 

[Raziek]

Can you give me the post number for the case on Tery, Nich?

 

[Circus]

@Nich: I don't see why you find that odd. If I had a strong town read on you, but still had my suspicions of Tery, why wouldn't that give me more incentive to "take your side," so to speak?

As it is, you're both pretty iffy to me.

 

[Inferno3044]

@Rajam - I don't understand your case on OS at all. Can you explain it?

 

[Xatres]

@Raz: I post about as often as I check the thread. If you are looking for more content, you'll get it when I have a solid case to make against someone.

@Rajam: I tend to agree with Raz's case against you. You seem to be jumping around to whatever target feels convenient at the time. I get the feeling you added me to your scum list because I disagreed with you about OS when maybe you were looking for an ally, but given that everyone else thinks your case was crap, do you have any other reason for putting me on your list? Also, do you have anything else against OS other than "Mafia knows who's Mafia" thing?

 

[Nicholas1024]

@Nich: I don't see why you find that odd. If I had a strong town read on you, but still had my suspicions of Tery, why wouldn't that give me more incentive to "take your side," so to speak?

As it is, you're both pretty iffy to me.

Sure, that makes sense... if this was a lylo decision between me and Tery. As it is it's more or less who's the scummiest out of the entire game, the validity of the point on Tery shouldn't really be affected by who made the point. (Well, perhaps somewhat affected, but not strongly.)

Why am I iffy to you anyway? (I'm going to chuckle if it's because I haven't fulfilled my usual tunnel-heavy meta.)

@Raziek
It's #246.

 

[Overswarm]

Rajam's town, imo. While it is possible he is scum, I still doubt his scummates would let him lynch himself in this way. If this was deadline day, he'd be at L-2 by now. Either way, Rajam's play looks scummy until you've seen his other games. He frequently brings up old information and will fixate on single points, so... imo he's town for all intents and purposes at the moment. I wouldn't be against his lynch later in the game for these reasons, but right now I'd rather lynch a blank slate than Rajam.

 

[Raziek]

See, I don't know if I'm entirely on board the Tery wagon, because I agree with half of your case, but disagree with the other half.

Tery voting Boat COULD be construed as blending, but being completely honest, I almost voted Boat myself out of frustration when I was catching up.

Tery expressed this sentiment in his point 2), in which he explained he realized his thought process was flawed. I can see where you're coming from given the timing, but we knew Boat wasn't going to get lynched THAT quickly, so any attempt at blending seems a bit unlikely, and I question scum's sanity on jumping a wagon that quick in the event that Boat actually DID get lynched.

So while I can see some merit, I'm not confident enough in that case to vote him.

@OS: Can you elaborate further on your reasoning for believing Rajam is Town? Is it solely based on playstyle/meta? I'm a little disinclined to dismiss it immediately, since Rajam's play to me right now feels a bit like when we were scum in Death note.

A good deal of blending, and popping in just often enough to not get super called out for lurking, throwing suspicion in seemingly random directions.

 

[Overswarm]

I've never been scum with him, so can't comment on that. It's pretty much meta though.

Rajam, what was being scum with Raziek like? I didn't read Death Note.

 

[Raziek]

Rajam's town, imo. While it is possible he is scum, I still doubt his scummates would let him lynch himself in this way. If this was deadline day, he'd be at L-2 by now. Either way, Rajam's play looks scummy until you've seen his other games. He frequently brings up old information and will fixate on single points, so... imo he's town for all intents and purposes at the moment. I wouldn't be against his lynch later in the game for these reasons, but right now I'd rather lynch a blank slate than Rajam.

Oh, just something I thought of to reply to this.

I don't feel comfortable letting Rajam's play slide on the grounds of "Well scum wouldn't be dumb enough". Sometimes Occam's Razor. Sometimes Scum is Dumb Town. Sometimes Scum is just scum.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Raziek if you are applying meta to me, then I gotta claim to you.

I am,

Spoiler

Rebecca Black - Friday Townie.

I have the power to kick it in the front seat or kick in the back seat while remaining indecisive about it.

Every Friday I am God and and use whatever powers I want.