Megaman Unlimited Mafia - Day 6 begins! No one killed!

[Rake the Lawndry]

This is from the rake side. I've discussed some / most of these reads with laundry iirc

 

[Rake the Lawndry]

I dont know how to feel about ryu yet. I want him to lay out exactly why he posted that way beyond fun because him saying I'll tell you later flat out isn't good enough at all

 

[Kantrip]

rake your reads don't make any sense whatsoever

 

[Rake the Lawndry]

Do you not think his reaction was like in Elements and Attributes?

Because his reaction looks really bad.

this is true

 

[Rake the Lawndry]

rake your reads don't make any sense whatsoever

then they must be right.

 

[Kantrip]

then they must be right.

you have people as solid townreads who should be null and people as null who should be something

and you dont like me or joker from our interaction but it's not SvS?

 

[Rake the Lawndry]

Nick and badwulf should be obvious. Anyone scum reading either is just being dense. Nick moreso. I understand circus' positin wrt badwulf but he's just wrong, badwulf doesnt play this way as scum. JD is gut and reasons i am having trouble remembering but I know they were there so there's no reason he can't be a bro to me.

you have people as solid townreads who should be null and people as null who should be something

and you dont like me or joker from our interaction but it's not SvS?

As i said i'm considering it but I dislike you both and I'm reading your thing again to see if it just isnt a bad townie vs a scummie.

I have a hard time seeing this as TvT right now though, which means from my POV one of the two of you is almost assuredly a bad dude, and there is a possibility of both of you being bad dudes

 

[Kantrip]

and you dont have a read on Gorf and Raz why?

also is nabe even in this game?

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

>how much are you guys gonna reach for joker
>joker is still dicey

wut

Oh and how is nich "obv town?" He's not posted nearly enough to have a solid opinion on.

 

[Rake the Lawndry]

Gorf because it's Gorf and Raz because i dont wanna go: WOW What raz did was really bad and dumb. Must be town. Initially i almost did so but im letting raz play out more before i settle on him.

@ #HBC | Gorf 's post: My gut on his first post was: Holy **** that looks damn townie. His posts afterword haven't done anything to change that and I don't see any scum playing how is he right now. i dont know nick from before but I'm sticking to my gut read on him until I see a reason not to

 

[Rake the Lawndry]

Also i thought nabe was but maybe it was just a picture of his avvy and I'm really tired and Kantrip's at L-2 and I like this.

 

[Rake the Lawndry]

And as to yolo, we just make him prove his role tomorrow. If he refuses we lynch him. Ezy pzy lemon squeezy

 

[Nicholas1024]

Alright, so I figure it's high time I went back and analyzed this in detail. The first thing I'd like you guys to keep in mind is that being wrong/tunneling is not a scum tell. If you really want to find scum, you need to go back and look at the motivation behind the posts. Is Kantrip pushing the lynch because he thinks PJB is scum, or is he doing it because he thinks PJB's an easy target? That's the question I'm looking to answer here.

But if you need convincing for why he's the scummiest player so far, in place of a case I offer you the grossest post in this game:

Three times!

So it's completely unthinkable that the role he has that allows him to know that you're town, is a role that says "scum" in it, and doesn't have you listed as one of his teammates? You are making a lot of assumptions, based on very little.

So it's completely unthinkable that the role he has that allows him to know that you're town, is a role that says "scum" in it, and doesn't have you listed as one of his teammates? You are making a lot of assumptions, based on very little.

So it's completely unthinkable that the role he has that allows him to know that you're town, is a role that says "scum" in it, and doesn't have you listed as one of his teammates? You are making a lot of assumptions, based on very little.

This quote from PJB reveals the core misunderstanding at the root of this case.

What Kantrip thinks: PJB is calling Raziek scum, as illustrated in this quote.

1. Wording is off
2. I think he's trying to tell Raziek that Raziek is making too many assumptions because he's not considering the possibility of me being scum with Raziek and calling him confirmed town because we're on a team
3. The above sounds gross just typing it out and I'd love for Joker to prove me wrong but that seemed like what he was saying to me
4. Oh yeah there's the fact that he's trying to convince Raziek why Raziek is scum. No one is ever legitimately trying to hunt for scum when they tell someone something like that. It's a very fake post

If he was correct, this would actually be pretty scummy. That's an important fact to keep in mind.

What actually happened: PJB was claiming that Kant's "town-crumb" on Raz from RVS could be due to Kant having a scum PM, as illustrated here.

Actually, if you go back and read my post again, you'd see that you're misreading it. The possibility was that YOU were scum, and that Raz WASN'T your partner.

He said your role PM told you he was town. Getting a scum role PM literally tells you who ALL the town are.

This is not scummy at all. Now, let's go through the rest of their interactions, keeping in mind this critical misunderstanding.

So I've actually been reading the whole time, but i'm also still watching AGDQ bonus stream, and you guys are posting NON STOP. Also, I was waiting for kantrip to fully catch up before refuting him, because I was sure he would realize he was completely wrong about me. Then he caught up, and still thinks I'm scum, and I remembered that he's bad at this game.

Kantrip, why is that post even gross? Nobody but you sees it, fill me in.

Was calling me bad at this game for having a scumread on you early in D1 really necessary?

Makes me think I'm right to have you being such a **** about it. Ever been wrong on an RVS read?

I have, but I don't think I am this time with how you reacted.

What Kantrip thinks: PJB is being intentionally antagonistic and defensive against a clear-cut case.

What actually happened: PJB's reactions are completely understandable, considering that Kantrip completely misunderstood his post.

How am i being opportunistic? I didn't start suspecting Raz, not even a little bit. Show me where I jumped on Raz.

I just did. You didn't vote but you jumped on him with words. The first post I quoted.

Again I'm going to say, why are you getting so defensive at me? This is early D1, no need to pull out the insults and retorts. Stay calm, man.

I'm not getting defensive. You called me out, and I'm responding.

and I jumped on him with words? wtf does that even mean?

You still haven't explained why my post is so gross, either.

This is more of the same. PJB is doesn't get Kantrip's case, and is saying as much. Kantrip thinks his meaning is clear, and continues being aggro.

It means you called him scum without voting him. Not a direct accusation, but you implied it when you said he wasn't considering the possibility of me being scum with him as my partner. Something that no townie (or scummer posing as a townie) would ever publicly consider so your whole post was kind of useless.

You may have missed it but Badwolf conveniently quoted it for you.

Because he was getting up in Rake's grill, and screwing with what he was doing. I didn't say I thought Raz was scum for it, though. Kantrip is manufacturing false intent from my posts.

My bad, I must have misinterpreted then. Could you clarify what the bolded was supposed to mean then? Thanks!

Actually, if you go back and read my post again, you'd see that you're misreading it. The possibility was that YOU were scum, and that Raz WASN'T your partner.

He said your role PM told you he was town. Getting a scum role PM literally tells you who ALL the town are.

This is the moment of truth. Kantrip finally explains himself in more detail, and Joker points out the misunderstanding. In a perfect world, this would probably be the end of it, but...

Ahhh I see! I was misunderstanding the doesn't as some sort of double negative to mean you were saying we were scum together! That makes more sense, thanks.

That said, after the confusion is cleared up you have added a lot of unsavoury responses to the pot that make me want to stay on you.

What Kantrip thinks:PJB's reactions to the post were incredibly defensive/antagonistic, and deserve pushing even though his initial case was completely wrong.

What actually happened: PJB's reactions were completely warranted exactly because the initial case was wrong.

Spoiler: More back-and-forth

Ummm, ok, stay on me if you want to? You think you're gonna catch all the scums by voting for people you think are being meanie pants? Do you actually think I'm scum?

I very much think you're scum. I think your hyper-defensive response to me disliking one of your posts and immediately calling me a bad player for it was scummy. I'm not voting you because I think you're rude. I also think you failing to consider the possibility that I was actually misreading your post was scummy. Instead, you OMGUS'd me and said I was "manufacturing false intent in your posts." You got way too jittery at my questions and light pressure and now you've gone and set off a bunch of red flags. So yeah I'm going to sit my vote on you, and I encourage others to follow suit.

Now I'm done.

I OMGUS'd you? Where? Kantrip, you're doing an awful lot of stretching to try and paint me as scummy here. You called me out as scum based on nothing, and I told you that you were wrong, and asked you explain. Then you made up a ****load of other things you thought were scummy, and when I refuted them, you call me defensive and jittery. You've also misrepresented my opinions TWICE now.

Take a break, man. You sound awful tense.

Do you not think I'm scum for misrepresenting your opinions? I'm awfully sorry for interpreting all your posts incorrectly but you really gotta be more clear man. When you treat someone like the scum of the earth, usually that implies you think they're the scum of the earth. Or, at the very least, scum.

So basically, what's happened here is the following.

1. Kantrip makes a case that's completely incorrect.
2. PJB reacts in a way that makes sense for a bad case, but seems really scummy IF the case was legit.
3. After a bit of discussion, PJB explains why the case was bad.
4. Kantrip admits the case was bad, but continues pushing PJB based on his reactions to said case.

First (and more obviously), this whole exchange does not reflect badly on PJB in any way, and I officially retract my past FOS on him. He's null-leaning town for me right now.

Secondly, while Kantrip was wrong, there's no scum motivation here. This looks to me like a classic case of tunneling, as even after Kantrip's initial case was blown apart, he reaches to keep his push going, because he's firmly convinced that PJB is scum. In short, Kantrip is playing like I did in my last game. (Before you ask, no, that's not a good thing.)

However, just because I think both Kantrip and PJB are town, doesn't mean there's no point behind this whole back and forth. Going to go ahead and post this for now, and next I'm going to analyze the wagons that formed around them.

 

[Nicholas1024]

@ #HBC | Gorf , Jditz, Red Ryu
I want each of you to explain in your own words why you think PJB is scummy.

@Rajam, Rake, Yolo
I want each of you to explain why you think there's scum motivation behind Kantrip's case.

 

[Rake the Lawndry]

I'll do that in a bit.
Gorf, as to your question, if you think Nick is still not obliviously town, then iunno about you man.

 

[Rake the Lawndry]

nick during you reading that did anyone's jump onto either wagon stick out and if so why

 

[Nicholas1024]

By the way, is there any way you can search for one player's posts in a thread? I remember it being possible on the old forums, but I don't know if that feature is still around.

 

[Nicholas1024]

nick during you reading that did anyone's jump onto either wagon stick out and if so why

That's what I want to get to in my next big post. Nothing looked like a smoking gun during my initial read-through, but I'm going to go back and look through it in more detail.

 

[Rake the Lawndry]

use the search bar at the top of the page and enter the persons name under the posted by member bit

 

[Rake the Lawndry]

and check off the option to make it for this thread only

 

[Jdietz43]

OK so from my re-skim what I'm getting is that suddenly everyone is agreeing with my initial read on Kant, good?

I'm down to go back to where my vote was on Kant re-read pending, the only reason it was on PJB here now is I wanted to see where the interaction would go and Kantrip got me doubting myself (and I feel the need to always have a vote now)

 

[Jdietz43]

Also not surprised on the Ryu restriction being claimed for fun, iirc he did this exact same thing as "Town Badass Dog Repede" in Utrickd 3 for no real raison

 

[Nicholas1024]

I'm going to hold off on the "Who I think is scummy on the wagon" post, mainly because I really want to see the answers to the below post first.

@ #HBC | Gorf , Jditz, Red Ryu
I want each of you to explain in your own words why you think PJB is scummy.

@Rajam, Rake, Yolo
I want each of you to explain why you think there's scum motivation behind Kantrip's case.

 

[Jdietz43]

-potato is doing his absolute best to set off all of my "you can't be this ****ing stupid" flags. it's a HELL of a reach to say that jdietz is scum just for disagreeing with him and him defaulting to a "i'm just trying to read people explain my scum motivation" thing is both obvious and feels a bit disingenuous

-i'm curious what jdietz is getting at in his 373

-WHY JDIETZ WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY WHY ARE YOU UNVOTING HE GOT WORSE AS HE KEPT TALKING TO YOU WHAT ARE YOU DOING

In my defense I had been playing mafia for almost 5 hours at that point... and as lame as it is of me to claim ineptitude johns my brain was more than a little fried and didn't think it'd be a big deal to switch my vote to the other side so early in the game to see what PJB said back. You know firsthand what I had been busting my brain over elsewhere.



Vote: Rake the Lawndry

THIS IS NOT A REAL VOTE, THIS IS MY VERSION OF UNVOTING WHILE I GO TO LUNCH SO I HAVE TIME TO READ INTO THIS MORE LATER. I already made the mistake of throwing my vote around for self preservation without thinking what it said about my real reads, so I'm just going to proxy unvote from now on I think

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

**** that's right nich writes walls.

Uh do you want me to explain it in my own words because you didn't see my explanation cuz I've said throughout the development of. I'm mobile and toasted so excuse me for anything I may leave out but like the dudes reaction to Kantrip callin em scum was where I REALLY started feeling weird. Before that it was kinda at most. But I dunno, he didn't really seem like he had a reason to dislike Kantrip that wasn't a parrot of rakes (TERRIBLE) case. And it's not that the reasoning is crap. His interaction with Kantrip became more and more about painting Kantrip in a bad light as he went on with it. His stances are wishy washy and his play is visibly... Safe, if that makes sense. He doesn't smell right.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Moar toast so I'll read up on dat wall when I get to it.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I think PJB is scum because his reaction was bad in a scummy way, but I am delving on both yours and Laundry's posts.

 

[Raziek]

And you saying Kantrip's town because he knows your town because he has a passive informative role that says so isn't?

ur a **** *** u raz

I'M SAYING THAT BECAUSE IT'S REACHY AS ****.

Like, re-read what it said. Seriously.

 

[#HBC | Joker]

Alright, so I figure it's high time I went back and analyzed this in detail. The first thing I'd like you guys to keep in mind is that being wrong/tunneling is not a scum tell. If you really want to find scum, you need to go back and look at the motivation behind the posts. Is Kantrip pushing the lynch because he thinks PJB is scum, or is he doing it because he thinks PJB's an easy target? That's the question I'm looking to answer here.



This quote from PJB reveals the core misunderstanding at the root of this case.

What Kantrip thinks: PJB is calling Raziek scum, as illustrated in this quote.



If he was correct, this would actually be pretty scummy. That's an important fact to keep in mind.

What actually happened: PJB was claiming that Kant's "town-crumb" on Raz from RVS could be due to Kant having a scum PM, as illustrated here.



This is not scummy at all. Now, let's go through the rest of their interactions, keeping in mind this critical misunderstanding.






What Kantrip thinks: PJB is being intentionally antagonistic and defensive against a clear-cut case.

What actually happened: PJB's reactions are completely understandable, considering that Kantrip completely misunderstood his post.








This is more of the same. PJB is doesn't get Kantrip's case, and is saying as much. Kantrip thinks his meaning is clear, and continues being aggro.








This is the moment of truth. Kantrip finally explains himself in more detail, and Joker points out the misunderstanding. In a perfect world, this would probably be the end of it, but...




What Kantrip thinks:PJB's reactions to the post were incredibly defensive/antagonistic, and deserve pushing even though his initial case was completely wrong.

What actually happened: PJB's reactions were completely warranted exactly because the initial case was wrong.


So basically, what's happened here is the following.

1. Kantrip makes a case that's completely incorrect.
2. PJB reacts in a way that makes sense for a bad case, but seems really scummy IF the case was legit.
3. After a bit of discussion, PJB explains why the case was bad.
4. Kantrip admits the case was bad, but continues pushing PJB based on his reactions to said case.

First (and more obviously), this whole exchange does not reflect badly on PJB in any way, and I officially retract my past FOS on him. He's null-leaning town for me right now.

Secondly, while Kantrip was wrong, there's no scum motivation here. This looks to me like a classic case of tunneling, as even after Kantrip's initial case was blown apart, he reaches to keep his push going, because he's firmly convinced that PJB is scum. In short, Kantrip is playing like I did in my last game. (Before you ask, no, that's not a good thing.)

However, just because I think both Kantrip and PJB are town, doesn't mean there's no point behind this whole back and forth. Going to go ahead and post this for now, and next I'm going to analyze the wagons that formed around them.

I like this whole thing, up until the part about Kantrip being town. Kantrip knows how I react to things, and is usually pretty good about being able to read me. I can't see how he could be THIS WRONG, and still be willing to push THIS HARD. I feel like the only reason he's staying on me is because he doesn't have another mislynch to push, and for some reason he still has people agreeing with him, so why not try and push it through, right? Kantrip even liked the above post, which is essentially a gigantic wall about why he was wrong, and I'm town. Yet he's still voting for me.

And seriously, **** yall for trying to cite E&A for why this could be my scum meta. You have exactly ONE game to give as an example, and I've been hearing about it every single ****ing game I've played since then. Ya know why? BECAUSE THAT'S HOW I ACT WHEN I'M TOWN. The whole reason we won E&A was because I played like my town self. Instead of only reading up on my scum games for meta (there are so few), try reading games where I was town. E&A was literally my second scum game ever, and if you read my most recent scum game (the walmart mafia game), you'd see that my scum meta probably isn't even the same anymore.

 

[Kantrip]

lol

 

[Nicholas1024]

Kantrip, I want your current thoughts on Joker after reading my wall.

 

[#HBC | BadWolf]

And seriously, **** yall for trying to cite E&A for why this could be my scum meta. You have exactly ONE game to give as an example, and I've been hearing about it every single ****ing game I've played since then. Ya know why? BECAUSE THAT'S HOW I ACT WHEN I'M TOWN. The whole reason we won E&A was because I played like my town self. Instead of only reading up on my scum games for meta (there are so few), try reading games where I was town. E&A was literally my second scum game ever, and if you read my most recent scum game (the walmart mafia game), you'd see that my scum meta probably isn't even the same anymore.

Such is the life of a person with a bad rep.

Reasons I don't like Joker.
1. He got really offensive really quickly. He's only done this in one other game that I've been in (E&A) and he was scum.
2. The only problem that I have is that Joker is usually really aggro with most games. I'm not sure if it's progressed within the time that I was gone and now we have another Soup, but.... Yeah.


Mfw RTL keeps mentioning that I'm a parrot. "He was only focusing on things that mattered at the time OH GOD."

 

[#HBC | Joker]

Such is the life of a person with a bad rep.

Reasons I don't like Joker.
1. He got really offensive really quickly. He's only done this in one other game that I've been in (E&A) and he was scum.
2. The only problem that I have is that Joker is usually really aggro with most games. I'm not sure if it's progressed within the time that I was gone and now we have another Soup, but.... Yeah.


Mfw RTL keeps mentioning that I'm a parrot. "He was only focusing on things that mattered at the time OH GOD."

you keep saying "wah, you got so offensive so quickly", but that is not scum mentality. You think I'm offensive in every game we play together, so I don't know what you're talking about here. I wasn't even that mean in this game, as a lot of peopel have already pointed out. In fact, YOU started out the game by being far more offensive than I ever did. It doesn't make you scum, it just makes you a ****.

 

[#HBC | BadWolf]

you keep saying "wah, you got so offensive so quickly", but that is not scum mentality. You think I'm offensive in every game we play together, so I don't know what you're talking about here. I wasn't even that mean in this game, as a lot of peopel have already pointed out. In fact, YOU started out the game by being far more offensive than I ever did. It doesn't make you scum, it just makes you a ****.

You came in after being insinuated as scum by calling the guy who called you scum bad. Without even hearing anything of the real case. At that point I'm not sure why you hadn't just asked him about it instead of going on the defensive so harshly.

Also I did say that I'm not sure about whether you're scum based on your attitude, cause I know you have a ****ty one regardless.

 

[Kantrip]

Kantrip, I want your current thoughts on Joker after reading my wall.

Still scum. I don't think the way he got defensive was natural but I respect your opinion and think your analysis was really townie

 

[#HBC | Joker]

You came in after being insinuated as scum by calling the guy who called you scum bad. Without even hearing anything of the real case. At that point I'm not sure why you hadn't just asked him about it instead of going on the defensive so harshly.

Also I did say that I'm not sure about whether you're scum based on your attitude, cause I know you have a ****ty one regardless.

I dunno if you know this, but potassium's nickname around here is "kantplay". It's a play on words, you see. The implication is that he "Can't play", meaning he's bad. It was a joke about his bad case, and make no mistake, his case is still terrible.

 

[#HBC | BadWolf]

I dunno if you know this, but potassium's nickname around here is "kantplay". It's a play on words, you see. The implication is that he "Can't play", meaning he's bad. It was a joke about his bad case, and make no mistake, his case is still terrible.

No ****, HOWEVER, I'm not arguing his case I'm arguing your ****ty response to his case. I have yet to say that i thought his case was legit.

 

[#HBC | Joker]

but my response wasn't ****ty. People keep saying it was ****ty, but thank god there are enough people who understand why it wasn't, to prevent me from being mislynched. Go read Nich's wall, he lays it out quite clearly.

 

[#HBC | BadWolf]

I understand why other people don't find it scummy, and if you notice I have yet to lay my vote down on either of you. However, you're not going to paint this as frustration as easily as that. I'm still deciding who I don't want in this game more although so far you have been the choice.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Joker even without meta I think what you did was scummy.

Meta is icing on the cake.