Mayling Family Mafia (Mayfia) - Who successfully escaped the Shadow Realm?

[McFox]

EBWOP: vand, I already explained why I was suspicious of hida yesterDay. It still holds up toDay.

 

[Cello_Marl]

Hida is scum. That's why I'm voting for him.

 

[Delvro]

Hida is scum. That's why I'm voting for him.

Aye.
VOTE HIDA

 

[Mayling]

Before I present my case on Jeremy, I would like to ask him his opinions on Clownbot and Delvro.

 

[vanderzant]

@Cello/Mcfox: Ok, thought so.
@Mayling: Sure

By any length, it's L-2 now, so I'll keep waiting.

 

[Mayling]

...And the early push against me begins. I'm really not surprised to see Cello voting for me, since he's been acting scummy and erratic this whole time, but I'm a little surprised to see May jump on it so quickly. McFox I could go either way with. Delvro hasn't been impressing me with his towniness (is that a word?) so far, but I want to see how the debate between him and Clownbot hashes out before voting.

@ May: Why vote for me? Besides jumping on Cello's bandwagon, I mean? I'd like to hear your case against me, if nothing else.

Jeremy, I already explained a little why I voted for you. And that the reread/case on you was coming. Why so eager for it, expecting me to contribute something immediately, when you (as I will show) have contributed hardly nothing at all?

now for my...case on Jeremy!

Crap, I rambled for a bit and then didn't include my conclusion. To wit: Cello isn't acting like I would expect a good townie to act (i.e., helpful). So either he's blatant scum, or a crappy townie. I just haven't managed to decide which yet.

I will open with this quote.

I've seen countless scum call Cello scum or dumb townie. It's happened in AIMafia, it's happened in Millers (Mentos), it happened in Treestump (Pierre, Mentos did it), and I'm pretty sure it happened in Grammys 2. Admittedly, I've at best SKIMMED these games I'm quoting, but you know what I've noticed as a common occurance throughout these players? They're. all. scum.

First of, people who say "he's either scum or a crappy townie" is a pretty good defense for scum to attack with. If the person were to flip town, they could simply say 1) Well, it's their own fault for acting so dumb or 2) well he seemed scum to me cause he acted so dumb. or maybe even 3) well, at least we got rid of the townie that's being useless.

It's true that Cello is really abrasive, but he makes good points. You can't actively attack Cello imo, and the best way to get him lynched, scum seems to think, is to call him dumb or scum. So Jeremy's rendition here (blatant scum or a crappy townie.) really does want me to vote him for these reasons.

It's not just this, however. There's more. A lot more.

Personally, the way I find scum is where people are the most hypocritical. Imo, people are most likely to find scum in themselves (what are their scummy attributes) and find it in others. Why would they do this? They realize they're being scummy, and therefore since they are doing scummy actions they can find those actions in other and say it's scummy.

Admittedly, this didn't work for me d1. However, if you ISO Jeremy's posts, it becomes very obvious he is hypocritical. And I find that to be scummy.

Wow, I go away on my anniversary vacation for like two days and we're already on page 5 when I get back. o.o

As May mentioned, I'm her brother-in-law, and this is my second forum Mafia game. I hope to actually finish this one! Since school is over for the summer, I should have a little more time to contribute to this now. I haven't formed an opinion yet on who's what, so I think I'm just going to bide my time a bit. Mostly just wanted to let people know that I'm here now, and ready to go. =3

This is Jeremy's opening post, in which he contributes pretty much nothing. He says he's going to bide his time a bit... I find this scummy because this is probably his way of seeing where the lynch candidate is going to end up. That way he doesn't have to flip flop his vote around and look scummy. He's just going to wait for the best lynch candidate to appear and place his vote there.

There's some good logic work here about Clownbot, I think, enough that I'm definitely suspicious of him. Bringing in older Mafia games as logical proofs is a little unfair to those of us who aren't heavily involved in the Mafia scene, though, since it basically precludes our ability to contribute in a meaningful fashion. It also tends to make me, personally, feel left out of the conversation in a social sense.

And look. Guess what he does? He places his vote on Clownbot, placing him at L-1. That's certainly convinent timing to place his vote on someone.

Furthermore, he says I have good logic on Clownbot, although it's a bit unfair. Really? Then why do you agree with it? Why don't you make your own conclusions, your own research? I can only assume that Jeremy is scum trying to coast by on my hard work, and place his vote on Clownbot for easy sailing.

If you are feeling "left out" which you say, then why don't you find your own contributions instead of coat tailing? Coat tailing is a very scummy action; Let Mayling do all the work and soar in like a vulture to pick off the lynch candidate Clownbot.

I'm also suspicious of Delvro, since his arguments tend to get really heated and defensive, but that just might be my natural inclination to be suspicious toward people who seem angry over a forum game.

For now, my suspicion is strong enough that I feel comfortable with voting, though that could change back the other way with some more argument.

Vote Clownbot.

Here he says he is also suspicious of Delvro, for a really really bad reason. Getting heated? Getting angry? Did Delvro come across like this to anyone else? From what I remember and waht I was thinking, Delvro at best came off as a lil frustrated at times. however, what does that to stop him from being frustrated town? Also, I know I can prolly read Delvro better than most here (and I know how to push his buttons for him to show his tells) so I need to not say DELV SO OBV TOWN, *BUT* I will say to push suspicion and want someone's lynch for "being angry/mad posting" is a bit strange to me. Not to mention, Delvro and Clownbot have been pushing at each other all d1 and it's already started again. So, why is Jeremy locking together the two people who have been trying to get each other lynched?

Once again, May takes an early lead on long posts and frequent posts, but I've gotten used to the fact that she goes on long exposition tangents whether she's scum or town from our recent games of Werewolf.

I have already explained why I was uncomfortable with him saying this. I'm not sure if I mentioned it, but I have also never played forum mafia, and only played AIMafia with Jeremy once. I think this just adds the scumminess in, since he acts like he's the pro of my playstyle.

I will also add that it is strange that Jeremy seems to comment on a potential scumminess of mine, when, in fact, he followed my CASE on clownbot. Why would you follow someone who you place suspicion on and vote with their case? Placing suspicion everywhere is a great way for scum to hop around and not look suspicious, and say "Hey, I always said that X person was suspicious, I can co-sign my vote wherever I please."

It certainly wasn't out of the blue. Putting someone near lynch is a way to get them to role-claim, and to make them sweat. At the very least, to see who's willing to jump on it to hammer them. I hammered in my newbie game because I was confident in my vote (though clearly, I had to leave that one so I didn't actually get to see the results of it...). To me, the early rounds of voting are mostly ways of shaking the bushes, so to speak, and who gets lynched is less important than seeing people's reasons for doing so. I thought (and still think) that a very solid logical case was presented against Clownbot, and I'm willing to see him swing over it. Nothing more than that.

This is in response to Vand's comment of how Jeremy ever so calmly placed Clownbot at L-1. Jeremy admits here that putting someone near lynch to get them to role claim is a good thing. That's not what putting someone near lynch is useful for, at all. You want to put pressure on someone and see how they act, how people react to their wagon, when people jump on and off, etc. However, saying that they want to find roles... well, what in the world do we need to find roles for? That's really only beneficial to scum, imo.

Also, Bolded is a lie, brought up by Clownbot. Jeremy was in fact there to see the flip, as he posted the next day.

If I seem calm about my votes, it's because I don't like to get emotionally invested in voting; in fact, I think I pointed out that one of my suspicions of Delvro is because of how heated he got defending himself in early accusations. Arguing heatedly and voting with your temper just aren't useful, as far as I'm concerned. I'm here to have fun and participate in some interesting debate, not to get myself worked up and angry.

Here Jeremy continues to push suspicion onto Delvro because of the heated argument thing. He says he's here to entertain in interesting debate, but praytell what interesting debate has he partake in? None. He followed my case on Clownbot, placing suspicion on me and Delvro. The end (up to this point.)

Wait, you admit that you're making me sound scummier than I am, but you're voting me anyway? That's... a little suspicious.

Unvote Vote Roxy

Here Jeremy comes in with another vote. Doesn't add a lot, doesn't say a lot. One comment. One vote.

What's important here is the placing. Once again, Jeremy places his vote LATE. (L-2) and follows a case made by Tandora. And once again, he doesn't add a lot to the discussion, doesn't hardly question (What? you call me scummy? Vote.) This is also the beginning of a long tirade of OMGusing.

What the heck did I lie about?

This post is a parrot of someone else, as someone else had already questioned what Jeremy had lied about.

Voting me because I have a busy schedule is just ridiculous, and it makes you look scummy. As does vote-hopping for that matter. It makes it look like your entire purpose is to cloud the waters and get people bickering again just as people were starting to get close to a consensus. You're shifting blame to me (and secondarily to SRB) to move it away from Clownbot, who could very well be your collaborator. You've been pushing *hard* on SRB as well, with basically no reasons given. This doesn't make me move my vote again, because you could just be testing the waters instead of muddying them, but it does make me suspicious of you.

This post is about CelloMarl.

This post is admittedly decent. (Probably his best.) However, even with all the evidence, he doesn't change his vote from Roxy to Cello, even though this post has the most Jeremy evidence and questioning against anyone. (This will be VERY important to remember when Jeremy flips.) Jeremy tries to note that he feels there's a connection between Cello and Clownbot, and yet his vote is on neither of them. Instead, he's following the Roxy lynch wagon. Why?

At this point, probably not. =/

This is in response to Clownbot asking Hida "Hida, are there any people you are suspicious of that aren't suspicious of you?"

Do I have to explain why this post is scummy? Jeremy pretty much admits here to being an OMGuser. That helps no one, and he is obviously contributing nothing after my analysis of his posts.

He claimed jailer, not doctor. But clearly not, since I'm voting Roxy now. =3

Response to Vand's: "@Hida: Do you still want to lynch Clownbot after he claimed doc?"

Another semi-parrot, as someone had already correct Vand. Gives MINIMAL information to Vand's question.

Geez, looks like SRB is in for a bad day. Self-voting really just annoys me to no end. It's a petty, useless way of throwing in the towel when you're on the edge of being hammered, instead of actually playing the game. And if you're just doing it for kicks, all it does is waste time and energy doing something that doesn't contribute to the game at all. Self-voting cheapens the game for everyone else. Just my noob opinion there, though.

I still think that Roxy is a more likely candidate to be scum, but Cello makes so many weird half-accusations in his posts that it really looks like muddying the waters to me. Clownbot seemed scummy to me before his role-claim, and he still does, but no one's challenged the claim at all. If we're making lists, then mine is:

Prolly Scum (in order of most likely to least):
Roxy
Cello
Clownbot

Prolly Not Scum:
everyone else
but especially me

Jeremy chastises SRB for self-voting, under the guise of "it annoys me." A semi-parrot of the town-flipped Tandora. (I do believe Jeremy tried to parrot her style of mafia the most, wanting to appear townie much like she did.) He says Roxy is likely to be scum, without much reason (something he accuses of Cello over and over again) and says Clownbot seems scummy (without really pushing his lynch, and riding off my case on him.)

And really? @ the "especially me not scum" part.

I already said something like this, but I want to throw in again on it just to make sure that people hear it. Self-voting makes the game suck for everyone.

mmmmmhmmmm parrottttt

And this is exactly what I was talking about earlier. This kind of frenetic double-speak doesn't help anyone who's trying to learn anything. It only confuses the issue and runs in circles around some kind of point (maybe, kind of, sort of, we can hope). Cello is pushing for me pretty hard, and at the same time making these sort of posts that force a false "me or scum" mentality. It's sort of like inverse bandwagoning: "Jump on my bandwagon, or prove that you're bad!" instead of "Everyone on the bandwagon is good! Including me, since I'm here!" =/

Crap, I rambled for a bit and then didn't include my conclusion. To wit: Cello isn't acting like I would expect a good townie to act (i.e., helpful). So either he's blatant scum, or a crappy townie. I just haven't managed to decide which yet.

Well, here we are nearing the conclusion, and at this post again! (I'm pretty brushed!)

At this point in the post, if you've read it all the way through and haven't skimmed, you know that Jeremy has generally been 1) non-contributive, 2) Following heavily on other people's coattails, cases, and bandwagons, and 3) when he does push on people it's for really odd reasons.

yet he calls Cello a bad townie for being unhelpful. Hm. I wonder who else we know that isn't an extremely helpful townie. Who hasn't given opinions. Who rides bandwagons to the day's end.

Could it be? Is it he? SUPER VOTE JEREMY!!!!

BTW. The reason why I asked Jeremy's opinions on Delvro/Clownbot is he simultaneously places suspicion on both of them, believing them both scum. However, for this to be true, we have to believe they are pulling an elaborate bussing prank. However, I decided to go ahead and post this, since I FINALLY got into making a case. and lordy, did I not want to lose this post. @_@

I think it's important to note Jeremy doesn't mention Delvro AT ALL until a vote (by clownbot, who Jeremy suspects) is placed onto Delvro.

 

[Delvro]

Yay we caught scum ♪♫♫♫

<3
Good job Mayling. You rock!

 

[DtJ S2n]

Mmm. It's definitely worth the time to see what Hida has to say, but until then lynching him is just a coin-flip imo. I guess the best thing to ask is... Hida, could you tell us at least 2 players you feel are scum, and why.

Wait for him.

 

[DtJ S2n]

I hope by "Wait for him" you didn't think I meant "Stop all discussion entirely."
Because really guys talking is a good thing... umm.

Why do you feel so confident he's scum, Delvro?

 

[Mister Eric]

I'm taking my laptop to MLG, but no guarantee on how much (if any) I'll be using it.

For now, I'd like to sheep my vote on Hida, but I'm unsure what the vote count is...he's at 4 right? so my vote would L-1 him? I'd hate to be the hammer...er without meaning too.
w/e tho, hope you've got something good to cover your rear, hida

 

[Mister Eric]

ah,,,, i cant resists!

vote: hidajiremi

wish me luck at mlg! ^_^
(purdy plz)

 

[Xiivi]

Deadline has been set for June 11, 2010 11:59AM EST.

It's takes 6/10 to lynch!

Day 1 Vote Count 2:​

Cello_Marl: (0)
Clownbot: (0)
Delvro: Clownbot (

)
hidajiremi: Cello_Marl, Mayling, McFox, Delvro, Mister Eric (

)
Mayling: (0)
McFox: (0)
Mister Eric: (0)
Roxy: (0)
Sold2: (0)
vanderzant.: (0)
Not Voting: hidajiremi, Roxy, Sold2, vanderzant (

)

 

[Clownbot]

I still find Hida suspicious from yesterDay and toDay's events only make me feel more so.

Everyone else without their vote on Hida: Thoughts on Hida.

 

[vanderzant]

I'm starting to become more inclined to Hida being scum. Mayling makes some good points. Don't mind hammering once he's had a chance to respond though.

 

[Delvro]

Why do you feel so confident he's scum, Delvro?

 

[Clownbot]

You sort of were asked a serious question, Delvro. Were you unconvinced until Mayling's case (and if so why did you switch your vote)?

 

[Delvro]

You sort of were asked a serious question, Delvro. Were you unconvinced until Mayling's case (and if so why did you switch your vote)?

Don't be such a spoil sport! Anyway, I voted before Mayling's stuff. Here's why I did.

but I want to see how the debate between him and Clownbot hashes out before voting.

Lol what kind of townie says something like this?
Hida kept pushing on me/Clownbot on day 1, yet he's so reluctant to vote? He apparently doesn't have any opinions to give about either of us on day 2 and is acting wishy-washy with his vote. He's focused on both of us pretty much the entire game, yet he has had precious little to say about us.

On top of that, what is the point of waiting for things to hash out to make an opinion/vote? What will it accomplish for town? IMO a townie just wouldn't say something like this. It makes no sense.

 

[Mayling]

You sort of were asked a serious question, Delvro. Were you unconvinced until Mayling's case (and if so why did you switch your vote)?

What vote switch are you talking about?

 

[Clownbot]

His switch to Hida. I was wondering what prompted him or if he just agreed with everyone else on his wagon.

His reasoning is pretty fair though.

 

[Cello_Marl]

I agree with everyone on the wagon.

 

[Purple]

Wow @ this potentially short day.

 

[Purple]

EBWOP : vote: hidajerimi

 

[Xiivi]

Day 2 Ends & Twilight 2 Begins!

Deadline has been set for June 4, 2010 11:59AM EST.

Day 1 Vote Count 3:

Cello_Marl: (0)
​

Clownbot: (0)
Delvro: Clownbot (

)
hidajiremi: Cello_Marl, Mayling, McFox, Delvro, Mister Eric, Roxy (

)
Mayling: (0)
McFox: (0)
Mister Eric: (0)
Roxy: (0)
Sold2: (0)
vanderzant.: (0)
Not Voting: hidajiremi, Sold2, vanderzant (

)

 

[Clownbot]

Well that was... Early.

-_-

 

[Clownbot]

Can't say I'm upset with the lynch choice but I at least figured we'd give the man a chance to respond.

 

[Mayling]

why did you hammer Roxy?

 

[Purple]

Because I feel Hida/Sold2 are scum. I've discussed both reads D1, and upon reading the information further assessed D2, I decided to hammer on Hida.

 

[Mayling]

You should have at least waited for a claim. He said nothing after my big case on him. S2 asked him a great question that would help us in the future when it came to end game.

 

[Purple]

I still feel he's scum, so whatever information he gives, generally won't help us. Only lead us to disaster.

 

[Mayling]

I'll answer to that response toMorrow, if we're both still alive.

 

[Purple]

If it pleases you, we still have twilight, which is when Hida can still respond to such information; the flip will tell us if his information is necessary or not.

 

[Mayling]

I know. that's why I'm waiting til toMorrow to respond to that, so it doesn't effect any info Jeremy gives us.

 

[Delvro]

I'd rather get more details of what s2 thinks about Hida than what Hida thinks of s2. Hida is dead, so he loses his motive to say things in order to stay alive.

 

[Delvro]

Nvm I'm an idiot and I shouldn't talk so much. Spill the beans Hida.

 

[Clownbot]

Hida, if you're Town, yeah, you should give us as much as you can for your last post(s).

If you're scum Delvro's pretty much right but you'd probably figured that anyway.

 

[DtJ S2n]

Why am I the one being persecuted. Have I missed an entire day's worth of material? The case on Hida is nothing because Hida has done nothing. Really not worth a lynch. Pressure on him, yes. Questions to him, yes. But there was no incriminating evidence, so not a lynch. Pressure needed to be applied before you even L-1'd him (btw Mister Eric is scum, Roxy is just ridiculous). This lynch accomplished nothing other than eliminating a no/low-read player. If he flips scum, you may as well have guessed what number I'm thinking of.

Delvro, why am I scummy. Because I didn't support the quicklynch and massacre of a player who we are unsure their alignment? Because I questioned you?

absolute garbage

 

[Clownbot]

That post was legitimately one of the most hilarious things I have read in a good while.

 

[Clownbot]

In case my last post is misinterpreted it wasn't intended to be malicious or anything... Reading back it was probably a bit more exaggerated than it should have been. Sorry if I upset anyone there.

Sold, all you're doing now is hurting yourself in case Hida flips scum (or either way really, but it'll probably be worse if he does) which is very likely. You talk as if toDay's going to be your last with your points about who's scum (which you don't explain) and your massive AtE.

 

[hidajiremi]

Hida, if you're Town, yeah, you should give us as much as you can for your last post(s).

If you're scum Delvro's pretty much right but you'd probably figured that anyway.

I'm an innocent man, which you're all about to discover. I stand by my view of Cello (who pushed for me) and Roxy (who hammered) as scum. May's long, involved post is a great example of people having all kinds of evidence, and then interpreting it entirely incorrectly. In this case, I think all of her mafia experience has acted against her, because she decided that I was scum based almost entirely off of meta ("anyone who claims dumb or scum is scum themselves!") or a mistake ("hida lied!"--I didn't, and as someone pointed out a while back, I was talking about not seeing the results of that game, not the results of the flip).

I may look scummy to some of you, but I believe that it's because I just don't have that much mafia experience, so I don't know what personal landmines to avoid when talking. "If you claim this thing, you're scum!" "If you don't defend yourself this specific way, you're scum!" It's frustrating, and now it's gotten me killed. So, kudos--you're about to lynch a townie.

 

[McFox]

Huh. I came here to post because I hadn't in a while. I was hoping that hida would've responded to Mayling's post by now, and we could see how we felt about it. Oh well. Still fine with the lynch choice, not as much the timing. We'll see if we were right.