Matchup Thread: WHAT TIME IS IT?

[Ripple]

60-40 olimar I can almost guarantee it

 

[SamuraiPanda]

Bair, Bair, Bair, edgegrab -> death.

Olimar vs DK is a hazy one for me. I personally haven't lost the matchup, nor have I ever really felt very pressured in it. I can see why DK may not perform well in the matchup, but I can see ways around what Olimar does, too. I don't know who has the advantage, but I won't be surprised if you DK mains give it to Olimar.

 

[DADdedede]

I think olimar has the advantage in this one

 

[gantrain05]

well im an olimar secondary and i can tell you, im not afraid of Bair in this matchup, the way i like to play is i pikmin spam you, and wait to see your reaction, most players will want those pikmin off of them so they will use a Nair or Dsmash or somethin to get them off and thats when i'll usually come in with grab > Dthrow > Dthrow > Usmash > Uair, and thats alot of damage and DK can't really escape any of it besides the Uair, but the timing has to be perfect, pivot grabs work well on DK, they will grab his arms if he tilts or smashes and will pluck him right out of his UpB, but i agree with you DK's olimar is easy to edgegaurd, but he does have some tricks up his sleeve, if he's recovering low, you might think you have him, but if he has his 2nd jump he will Uair you off the stage and he'll be fine, but it really does go the other way too, once olimar has DK off the stage it really is hell for him to try to get back to neutral ground, with Fsmash spam, Uairs, and pivot grabs its almost impossible to get back to the stage against a smart and patient olimar. basically heres what to watch out for

1, if olimar is spamming pikmin at you, he may just be trying to gauge your reactions, be careful, use safe moves like Nair to get pimin off, or just approach like normal.
2.when approaching, don't rely so heavily on your Bairs like you would against alot of characters, olimars defensive game imo is one of the best of the game, if he grabs you its almost garaunteed that its going to hurt, not to mention olimar is a very small target and you are going to have to either fast fall your Bairs or time them very very well to hit him. if he see's it coming tho you almost garaunteed to be grabbed or Fsmashed
3.offstage, try not to go for Dair spikes, olimar will whistle armor if he see's you coming out to edgegaurd, and DK has quite a bit of lag after his Dair, if olimar has all his pikmin he can easily Bair or Dair you depending on his position and still have plenty of room to UpB back on stage.
4.try to pressure olimar, he doesn't play at his best when he has characters in his face all the time, its not easy to do, but if you learn the matchup, this is probably the best way to go, learn to spotdodge his grabs and punish with tilts or even Dsmashes if you are fast enough.
5.always remember, and airborne olimar is usually a dead olimar, if you can keep him above you he has a hell of a time trying to get back to ground, DK's Uair and Bair are very good when olimar is airborne and they will beat out any of olimars arials except for Uair, but you won't have to worry about that because you are below him.

well.....thats my opinion on the matchup, i have to say its probably a 60-40 olimar advantage but its easily winnable for you DK's if you learn the matchup.

 

[itsthebigfoot]

a few tricks against olimar

if he goes for whistle armor, you should know that headbutt punishes the whistle very well, so act like you're going to bair then headbutt instead, after that mix in headbutts and bairs

i think its in dk's favor, but i'll watch the discussion for a while before posting why

 

[Tujex]

Olimar is ********. He has the best stall and anti-air tactics int he game if you ask me. Not to mention his disjointed smashes and aerials, his decent aerial movements, whistle armor, and small size. He has two heavy hitting Pikmin types, a neutral, and two light which can be quickly manuevered through to fit each situation. He can rack up insane damage without getting near, and is pretty much completely unsafe to approach from the air or ground.

I haven't played a good Olimar recently, but the one I played about a month ago was a Beast, and owned me pretty swiftly. I'd say 6-4 Oli, but my game's much different then it was then and I'm much better....so my answers not final.

 

[blakinola]

ugh 6-4 Olimar.

He outcampe DK, DK is much too big. Too small to back air. Every whiffed approach means a grab from Olimar. 0-40 damage in literally 4 seconda. Grab > Dthrow >uair > gg DK. If you manage to get olimar off the stage, then it's not a big deal. Platforms hurt DK because pikmin go through them too easily.

 

[CBK]

6:4 DK

Down B too good, up b real good, SA punch,

But the best thing that makes this in DK's favor is his throws getting olimar off is too easy for DK and if you low toss him and he recalls his picmen they all die if you up b.

 

[Ripple]

6:4 DK

Down B too good, up b real good, SA punch,

But the best thing that makes this in DK's favor is his throws getting olimar off is too easy for DK and if you low toss him and he recalls his picmen they all die if you up b.

since those are the only attacks DK is limited to in this match up except for f tilt also(still risky). an oimar will know exactly what to expect. DK can't do aerials in this match up unless there are platforms otherwise you risk a grab or up smash. the only aerial plausible is SA punch, and that's not even an aerial. its DK's ground game vs. olimar's grab, ground, projectile, and aerial game.

6-4 oli

 

[i1337]

my advice vs olimar:

play an amazing Dk and youll see what cbk means and dont let him kill your pikmin or its over.

 

[gantrain05]

Down B doesn't actually do much, it won't shake pikmin off of you, and if olimar see's you doing it he's just going to spam more pikmin and wait for your approach, bottom line is, DK has to approach, olimar doesn't and DK really has alot of problems approaching a patient olimar. 6-4 olimar easy imo.

 

[Tujex]

my advice vs olimar:

play an amazing Dk and youll see what cbk means and dont let him kill your pikmin or its over.

Even an "amazing" DK would have trouble. Probably making 45-55 to 50-50 at most. Oli has a whole lot more working for him in this match-up. Spam camping and his broken grab range/disjointed hitboxes. Even if you kill his Pikmin it takes what....2 seconds for him spawn all six again. That means if you give him a second of ground time after killing them, he's already gotten half of his army back. And though he's limited to Uptilt and Nair, a smart Oli won't allow you to go all offense and keep him airborne until death.

You'll have to defend at some point or get combo'd the hell out of by those two moves until he finds an opening. Of course his recovery is shot after losing his Pikmin, its still hella easy for him to them back if you leave open for a millisecond.

 

[Jmex]

6:4 Olimar

As previously stated in the above comments.

 

[Rhyme]

Fight with your back to Olimar and your Bair will outrange/outprioritize him in the air. Only fight vs him horizontally while airborn...approaching from below he'll whistle cancel your Uair/Nair and punish with Nair->Uair/Usmash, approach from above and his Uair will show no mercy. Be careful how you DI his Uair, you don't want to DI into an upB, especially if he's got a blue at the front of his line.

Utilt is your anti-air in this game. If Olimar tries to catch you with a quick aerial, Utilt can beat it, and that sets you up for more Utilts or even Bairs depending on the percentage.

If you manage a grab, Fthrow/Uthrow. It's far more valuable to get him in the air than it is to get pummel damage. Once airborn, camp the ground space just next to beneath him. If he does any aerial but Nair, you shield grab it. Nair will always be followed by Usmash or roll-dodge, and either will block your shield grab. If he airdodges, punish with downB (if he goes in front) or Bair/Uair (if he goes behind).

Charging Dsmash can help when he latches. Your Dsmash will lag for each pikmin that is latched in a different 'latch zone', and the slight charge will often throw off an Olimar player's timing.

If Olimars think that you are going to hog an edge at low percents, they will often freak out and try to 'beat you to the edge' by upBing ASAP. If you're quick with a Bair (don't fast-fall) off the stage, you can sometimes catch him as he shoots to the edge for an easy kill.

Smart Olimar players will stay on the stage while at low percents rather than risking getting gimped during an attempted edgehog. 90% of the time a vertical auto-sweetspot with your upB is the way to recover, as it prevents him from grabbing you off the edge. Even if you have your midair jump and could reach the edge, always upB into it anyway. Unless it's painfully obvious that Olimar is attempting to hog the edge on you, you should be focusing on getting the vertical sweetspot.



Overall I say that this is a 60 in Olimar's favor. DK's approach pails in comparison to Olimar's defensive game, and Olimar has too much fun comboing big, heavy characters.

 

[gantrain05]

you gotta remember tho rhyme, olimars won't be approaching DK from the air.....if they are smart they won't anyway, in fact i will rarely even jump with olimar unless im following up with a combo or trying to space a little bit and short hopping my side B, other than that im standing on the ground throwing pikmin and just anticipating the approach.

 

[Donkey Bong]

against his throwing pikmin tactic you can use your running downb
its a pretty close matchup IMO, olimar can combo the hell out of DK, and his smashes are sick, since its hard to tell what he's doing, all his attacks look the same

 

[itsthebigfoot]

olimar really wants to grab you, bait his grabs with empty jumpins -> spotdodges. after about 2 of those, mix in empty jumpins -> downb, as well as bairs

 

[Jmex]

I personally fell Olimar has the slight upper hand, although i cant say much seeing as ive really only played against an Olimar about 3 times.

 

[gantrain05]

olimar really wants to grab you, bait his grabs with empty jumpins -> spotdodges. after about 2 of those, mix in empty jumpins -> downb, as well as bairs

this could work, but its a bit dangerous, if the olimar is good with his spacing and timing he can grab you while your airdodge is just about to end before you can Bair or Down B, and i believe olimar can throw out his grab two times in while you are jumping in and dodging, once right before you dodge, and the 2nd grab will come out right after, not sure if you have any time to react if they do this.

 

[Vyse]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=181638
Diddy is discussing Donkey this week : O

Or have been anyway. Come and refute/agree/post your opinions.

 

[Rhyme]

you gotta remember tho rhyme, olimars won't be approaching DK from the air.....if they are smart they won't anyway, in fact i will rarely even jump with olimar unless im following up with a combo or trying to space a little bit and short hopping my side B, other than that im standing on the ground throwing pikmin and just anticipating the approach.

I'm an Oli player too. : ) I said something about 'hitting with a quick aerial' not approaching by means of the air. What I most nearly meant would be something to the effect of SHFair out of shield, or a retreating Fair/Nair, not an aerial approach. I do occasionally approach with Oli, but 99% of the time it's with an Usmash or grab.

 

[itsthebigfoot]

this could work, but its a bit dangerous, if the olimar is good with his spacing and timing he can grab you while your airdodge is just about to end before you can Bair or Down B, and i believe olimar can throw out his grab two times in while you are jumping in and dodging, once right before you dodge, and the 2nd grab will come out right after, not sure if you have any time to react if they do this.

never air dodge just before you hit the ground, fast fall in front of him and spotdodge instead

 

[Revven]

Dtilt and Ftilt **** Olimar pretty bad, though, I haven't faced many too good Olimars. Down B is an obvious choice, Up B would be good to keep yourself alive and deal large amounts of damage. Double Bair is pretty risky, IMO, Utilting to it is much better in fact, Utilt is another good choice for DK if Olimar is behind him. You'll have to dodge Olimar's grabs like crazy though and Down B at the appropriate time to knock'em in the air. In the meantime, Olimar has incredible range as well and can deal a large amount of damage to DK with just Forward B and his smash attacks.

I'm not REALLY experienced in the match-up, but, I know for a fact that it's a tough one for DK to overcome but, not too bad because of the options he has.

 

[itsthebigfoot]

against olimar, downb is your best poke since it outranges all his defensive moves, and if he goes for agrab it'll knock him out of the grab (no grab armor)

the more i play this matchthe more i think its in dk's favor

SA punch is too good here, kills him in the 60's sometimes

also dsmash is great as a ledge guard here, if he comes in high charged dsmash to the face, comes in low, dsmash stage spike

 

[Mr.Victory07]

Cargo ->Dthrow of the ledge is excellent for gimp setups, just do a very quick falling bair

 

[Jmex]

Donkey Clap!

 

[Ragnar0k]

Aerial side b is awesome vs Olimar. He tries to shield grab your second bair but you just hover in the air and then OH NOEZ MY HELMET IS SMASHED INTO THE GROUND!

 

[gantrain05]

against olimar, downb is your best poke since it outranges all his defensive moves, and if he goes for agrab it'll knock him out of the grab (no grab armor)

the more i play this matchthe more i think its in dk's favor

SA punch is too good here, kills him in the 60's sometimes

also dsmash is great as a ledge guard here, if he comes in high charged dsmash to the face, comes in low, dsmash stage spike

if he comes in low he will just Uair you from below your Dsmash, thats what i do anyway, theres really almost nothing that is going to beat his uair in a recovery situation from below.

 

[Tamoo]

I wudnt spotdodge olimars grabs because spotdodges generally dont last long enought to escape the grab sequence of the grab, yes, olimars grabs stay out there for ages, and if he pivot grabs, its almost impossible to avoid unless you roll away. No matter where donkey kong is, olimar has an option due to his amazing range, from side, he will grab, from above, upsmash or uptilt, from diagonal, upb. The best thing for a DK to do from watching my friend against me is to remain unpredictable throughout the whole match. Olimar is hard to approach and DK dont have projectiles so thts not ideal. Try and get behind olimar and spotdodge the inevitable barrage of dsmash and then punish.

 

[Ragnar0k]

You can definitely spotdodge olimar's grab.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ZuxYOwstSM

2:28

 

[Tamoo]

yeah but that DK was right on the tip of the grab range, when close up, i dont think its possible, well thats what my friends biggest complaint is to me.

 

[gantrain05]

yeah but that DK was right on the tip of the grab range, when close up, i dont think its possible, well thats what my friends biggest complaint is to me.

actually if you don't run olimar can actually grab twice and the second one will get DK right after his spotdodge animation, i've done it like a trillion times, not jsut to DK but alot of characters.

 

[Excellence]

I'm pretty sure this match-up is in Olimar's favor. His keep away game is too good for someone as slow and predictable to overcome. It's a lot harder for DK to do well in this match-up and score kills on Olinar as it is to do well and score kills on Donkey Kong.

 

[powuh_of_PIE]

so how are we calling this one? 60-40 olimar?

 

[Jmex]

^ I hope so.

 

[Donkey Bong]

after playing it a bit more, i'd definitely say at least 60-40 olimar. his range game definitely puts the hurt on DK so in order to win this match, DK has gotta be constantly in his face

 

[Tujex]

And even then, the big ape still has to be on his toes or Oli-guy's gonna **** him.

 

[Donkey Bong]

yeah man, dont get hit by the usmash, that thing is broken.

 

[Tamoo]

lol it really is broken, speed range and power all in one...
I think 60-40 is quite a fair reflection of this matchup, Olimar is generally better against the big characters.

 

[OmniOstrich]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlWuTq0XgiU
Watch the DK match there, notice how insanely easy it is to space and combo with Olimar vs DK, he is combing with fsmash, and killing with a grab. Zori makes some pretty big mistakes here and still wins, its deff in Olimar's favor.