Matchup Discussion: Snake

[MP8]

Fireballs will blow up stationary grenades. Grenades that Snake just tossed however will clash with fireballs without exploding. Keep in mind that it's possible to Cape Grenades, although it's best done with reverse Capes. Hitting the grenade with your Cape iirc might cause the grenade to clash and go nowhere, and of course, if the grenade is stationary, it explodes. What's REALLY awesome about reflecting a grenade back to Snake is that if he gets hit by the explosion (which is beefed up due to the properties of reflecting projectiles), it kills RETARDEDLY early. Like...Snake U-tilt retardedly early. Obviously don't kill yourself trying to do this.

Also I'd rather not have fireballs move faster in Brawl. I'd rather they move slower, or Mario's horizontal mobility was increased. Then we'd have a REALLY broken character to main.

I should have figured they blow up stationary granades just like everything else. Caping does have its positives but we must be careful not to get to carried away so it doesn't blow up in our faces, like you said. That's true about the slow fireballs, because I do like to do follow ups and the fast ones would make it harder. But it would make Mario's camping a little better and it would be a better momentum stopper, keeping the opponent on their toes constantly.


About Snake, I think his vulnerable recovery and bad air game is the best thing to take advantage of. Of course, getting him off the edge is easier said than done but if he's forced to use his up B, he's ours. To elaborate on that, an opportunity to F-air him while he uses up B should be good pressure.

 

[Inferno3044]

It's really not that hard to avoid stationary grenades. All you have to do is when it rests keep a good distance away. It's not hard.

@approaching - you have that much faith in a fireball? you are playing the wrong game my friend.

 

[vato_break]

Inferno is obv on another level, he beats snake like nuthin gais lets listen to him

 

[MP8]

Huh? All faith in a fireball? No way. "I do like to do follow ups" doesn't exactly specify that. I will try it sparingly but I'm not going rely on it heavily. Its not like it never works. If you're doing an approach, it wouldn't hurt to throw a fireball in the process instinctively. Just so you're not confused, this was about fireballs in general, not on Snake alone.

Stationary granades aren't an issue. We were just making a point that they blow up on contact from an attack as opposed to mobile granades, which can be reflected from a cape but not if it is about to explode from being cooked.

 

[Inferno3044]

Inferno is obv on another level, he beats snake like nuthin gais lets listen to him

Thank you Vato. Obviously your Mario isn't good enough to SH double fireball A2.

 

[A2ZOMG]

It's really not that hard to avoid stationary grenades. All you have to do is when it rests keep a good distance away. It's not hard.

@approaching - you have that much faith in a fireball? you are playing the wrong game my friend.

Avoiding grenades is easy. Camping Snake is pointlessly risky though. You can't avoid grenades and safely camp Snake at the same time. The answer is simple. Force him to stop camping. Get in his face, and get him offstage or above you. This is MUCH simpler and done correctly much safer than trying to camp Snake.

And what's Snake going to do to stop a well-spaced fireball approach? You have an answer to every one of his anti-approach strategies, and his options are significantly more limited when he has to deal with a fireball that's between you and his hitboxes. Approaching in Brawl is not as difficult nor is it as counterproductive as you imply it is.

Vs Snake is a matchup you basically have to win legitimately. You have to get in Snake's face and dominate him offensively to win. It's only practical to attempt camping Snake if you have a stock lead.

 

[fromundaman]

And what's Snake going to do to stop a well-spaced fireball approach? You have an answer to every one of his anti-approach strategies, and his options are significantly more limited when he has to deal with a fireball that's between you and his hitboxes. Approaching in Brawl is not as difficult nor is it as counterproductive as you imply it is.

He could, you know, just jab to clank with the fireball, then Ftilt or Utilt your followup... Or just shield drop a grenade... or position traps all around him making it harder for you to follow up...

Not saying it's impossible, undoable, or anything like that. In fact, I agree that's pretty much how you have to do it. However, Snake does have answers, but if you read those, you can also punish him for those, so it's a rock-papers-scissor situation.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

The reward for Snake is still higher in every situation and the risk is not nearly as big. Snake ***** Mario.

 

[fromundaman]

I think ***** is a bit of an overstatement, but yeah, I'm pretty sure everyone can agree that it's definitely in his favor.

 

[Matador]

The reward for Snake is still higher in every situation and the risk is not nearly as big. Snake ***** Mario.

This, basically.

Mario has the tools, but literally has to try 3 times as hard to get the same results as Snake.

Well...that is unless you're one of those Marios that can get him offstage or into bad positions really easily.

 

[Juushichi]

Yeah, I've had both an Ike and Snake just jab/powersheild my fireballs as I tried to approach. It stopped me trying to fireball approach for a bit.

 

[Matador]

Yeah, I've had both an Ike and Snake just jab/powersheild my fireballs as I tried to approach. It stopped me trying to fireball approach for a bit.

Yeah, I have that same problem with Snake especially. He can just powershield and Ftilt whatever we follow-up with.

I've found that if you are playing against an oppoent that relies on powershielding to kill your approaches, don't completely commit yourself to them. Fireball, then follow to a set distance...usually close enough to punish them if they try to punish you after powershielding.

I need more videos. I could easily show you what I mean since I've recently started doing this in most match-ups.

 

[Inferno3044]

Snake is gay because he has dumb damage output and dumb range.

 

[Matador]

Aren't u supposed to be Brawling in the Streetz, Inferno?

 

[Inferno3044]

Aren't u supposed to be Brawling in the Streetz, Inferno?

Mekos changed his mind due to the low turnout and he's my ride.

 

[Matador]

Sucks. Yeah, I think my ride made the same decision.

Ah well...pound's around the corner.

 

[windkai]

Awww first post in like... forever.

One thing I haven't seen other mario mains due is actually applying the FLUDD into the MU. Not just for spacing or inducing snakes god awful slow arials, but for his GRANADES, LANDMINES, AND C4, MORE ESPECIALLY GRANADES.

you can elimate Snakes projectile game, the FLUDD can knock back thrown/dropped grenades back at snake much like how the cape covers pretty much most projectiles. Seriously guys practice with this if you have no idea what I'm talking about, let those snake mainers eat those NADES! He doesn't have the speed to dodge a full speed grenade thrown back at him.

Just imagine watching a snake main hold a grenade till the last second to toss it back, if you can read it, you can blow up a grenade right in his face! Man I need to buy a capture card so that I can show you guys how i play this match up. Snake is not at all a entirely bad MU for mario

 

[A2ZOMG]

Caping Grenades is also amazing...if you know what you're doing. It's funny to watch Snake get killed by a Caped grenade at like 120%.

 

[Inferno3044]

You gotta do the reverse cape on grenades though. I have used FLUDD a couple of times on grenades.

 

[HeroMystic]

One thing I haven't seen other mario mains due is actually applying the FLUDD into the MU. Not just for spacing or inducing snakes god awful slow arials, but for his GRANADES, LANDMINES, AND C4, MORE ESPECIALLY GRANADES.mario

I do this all the time.

 

[fromundaman]

You gotta do the reverse cape on grenades though. I have used FLUDD a couple of times on grenades.

No normal cape works too. The timing is just tricky.

 

[Matador]

Thing about fludding grenades is that you need it fully charged to push them back to Snake. Any lower and it just stops them in mid-air.

That's still good, but it's also hard to keep up with Snake's rate of fire. If you could push them back with Fludd half-charged, then maube it'd shut him dowm completely.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Yeah, and of course, you still have to beat up Snake legitimately in close range to actually win this matchup.

 

[Omari]

IMO, Mario mains (including myself at one point early in the game) should learn how to implement F.L.U.D.D. not just in certain situations. Practice utilizing F.L.U.D.D. while whipping your opponent's ***. Coolwhip uses this skill quite well (be sure to be not only creative, but safe).

 

[JuxtaposeX]

LOL SNAKE'S FTILT DOES 18% IN BRAWL MINUS
AHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

/allcaps

 

[SKidd]

Do you guys ever SDI things like ftilt?


I find it pretty useful.


And I notice myself fludding fairly often; it is much more useful than it looks.
Noobs thinkin' Mario is all about cape gimps, FLUDD is how it's done.

 

[fromundaman]

Don't think it belongs in this thread, but yeah, FLUDD is actually way underrated. It's great for messing up spacing and getting free landing punishes.
It's also pretty amazing in teams.

 

[Matador]

You HAVE to sdi ftilt, otherwise he can just keep doing the first hit into jab or grab or whatever. Snake is so dumb.

 

[Inferno3044]

You should SDI everything. If you wanna improve your SDI, play melee. It's so crucial.