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Matchup advice against Peach

ILoveTacos

Smash Rookie
Joined
Apr 18, 2010
Messages
12
I know, its pretty sad, but im losing against a friends Peach with Marth and its frustrating. I didn't find any matchup threads for Peach so yeah. It'd be cool if anybody could give me tips about facing Peach. So, one of the main things that probably costs me the match is the inability to finish her, is that she always recovers sucessfully, with a well-timed airdodge that gives her more time to bother me. So any tips would be great.

Edit: My bad, didnt see the matchup thread. Well any additional tips would be awesome.
 

Fortress | Sveet

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Joined
Dec 21, 2005
Messages
16,256
Location
Northern IL
just like dash dance a lot and shield when she approaches with an aerial or dash attack. hit her if she tries to get a turnip. utilt is a great kill move and spacing fsmashes works really well on peach. if she gets in the air you can pretty much do whatever you want but if she is on the ground you cant jump or you'll get dash attacked.
 

Niko45

Smash Master
Joined
Apr 16, 2008
Messages
3,220
Location
Westchester, NY
Nothing to be embarrassed about. This matchup is more complicated than a lot of people let on imo. Peach has a lot of tricks that you want to identify and exploit.

First, try to figure out what is hurting you, dash attack/dsmash or turnips/float approaches?

Personally I find dash attack and dsmash much more threatening, so I try to focus on not getting hit by those. However, if you can bait these moves you can get grabs and big punishes, so the best thing to do is DD or just walk up approach peach cautiously with her dash attacks misleading range in mind. Don't commit to anything too soon and understand that marth's range and capability to punish peach hard puts a lot of the pressure on peach to "do something," which you can then take advantage of. Watch out for peach rolling into you and dsmashing. Peaches love to do that.

For turnip approaches, there are a bunch of tricks to avoid them. If you see her pull a turnip, and you anticipate her jump, throw, float, aerial approach, you can do many things. Dash underneath her and cross her up, then reverse fsmash her. You can use nair's double hits to 1st deflect the turnip and 2nd to hit peach, which should also start a nice combo for you. If you have enough space behind you you can just retreat past the turnip's range with retreat fair and keep peach out. You can also counter turnip approaches, but be careful not to overuse this as she can punish you badly if she predicts it.

I seriously don't recommend shielding very much against her aerials. Peach's shield pressure is fantastic, and particularly you need to understand that bair -> dsmash is not shieldable (it will erode your shield enough to the point that the later hits of dsmash will connect).

As far as killing goes, this is the really challenging part of the matchup. You don't have a reliable way to kill her. Have you tried side B -> up tilt? That works sometimes, but not for long. Peaches CC constantly and I'm pretty tentative to try to challenge peach's air game with side B, plus they can DI out of it if they're ready for it. It's the kind of thing to keep up your sleeve. It might work every once in a while, but you certainly can't rely on it.

Another "gimp" on peach is to fthrow her near the ledge straight into a full hop dair. If you catch the peach DIing your fthrow in (try to fthrow instantly after grab, it scares even really good people into DIing in sometimes) you can take advantage of this with either fsmash or full hop dair. Full hop dair won't kill at very low percents, but there is a large overlap in % where fsmashing is not going to kill and dair will.

You mentioned air dodges --- bait air dodges! Watch peach hover and just be patient. Try to keep in mind that you are marth and you are scary, so peach is very likely to commit to some type of move (air dodge, aerial attack) before marth does in order to protect herself. Wait for the air dodge and fsmash/grab/up tilt. If you can force her to up B, lots of peaches like to go for the ledge from the umbrella. Don't dtilt...it won't work...just try to take the ledge quickly and roll up right before they get there, then you can ledge hop nair or something if they end up drifting on stage.

You just have to be really patient with peach. Sometimes she is going to live a really really long time and its going to seem like you will never kill her. Just stay focused and keep hitting her, keep baiting air dodges, and eventually she will die.
 

ILoveTacos

Smash Rookie
Joined
Apr 18, 2010
Messages
12
Thanks guys, I'll give it a go. This will definetly help me kill my friend's Peach.
 

JesiahTEG

Smash Master
Joined
Jan 30, 2007
Messages
4,126
Location
Rochester, NY
Marth vs Peach really isn't even that bad for a Peach that knows what she's doing. Fox is wayyyy worse for Peach.
 

DA_RAIN

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Aug 1, 2005
Messages
181
your stupid

marths dash and fair r better than peachs entire character and thats all he does n e way
 

KirbyKaze

Smash Legend
Joined
Nov 18, 2007
Messages
17,679
Location
Spiral Mountain
Run back and forth when you're on the ground and she's on the ground. If she tries to attack or do anything, punish her. Shield grab dash attacks and jabs (CC grab is also effective against jabs), dash dance grab anything else (anything else includes D-smash, sidestep, rolls, turnip plucks, etc).

D-tilt is good if you use it only sometimes and mostly when she's close to the edge to poke her.

If she goes airborne, throw moves at her. Fairs, Uairs, Nairs, etc. F-smashes are good when she's airborne at a sort of middle or low-middle height. They often tip. Generally Fairs, though. She's going to try and move back to dodge your move most of the time so adjust your spacing accordingly.

Throw her and tech chase if she DIs down and away. Generally F-throw, but D-throw is acceptable as a mix-up and to put her near the edge or offstage. Peach sucks near the edge because she doesn't have a good way back on. If she doesn't DI down and away, you can just throw Fairs at her and get a big combo, or dash attack her and get a big combo after a certain percent.

U-throw is sometimes okay as a mixup because Peach is awful when she's above Marth and you can just toss Fairs (or Uairs, Nairs, etc. depending on what's convenient) at her and if she tries to air-dodge through them, you just react and U-tilt and then get a big combo. They'll conveniently out-prioritize her Nairs and similar combo-breaking moves, so just mind your spacing and you will reap a big combo.
 

Niko45

Smash Master
Joined
Apr 16, 2008
Messages
3,220
Location
Westchester, NY
I'm hesitant to try to CC grab peach because they could dsmash instead of jab for an instant half stock.

Also DA Rain your out of your mind. Fox destroys peach. Marth just kinda beats peach.
 

KirbyKaze

Smash Legend
Joined
Nov 18, 2007
Messages
17,679
Location
Spiral Mountain
If they jab your shield, you immediately grab and hold down while spamming the input for CC grab. If they do the D-smash, if you did your shield grab fast enough you win and get the grab. If they double jabbed, you've CCed it, so you get the grab.

The only way this doesn't work is if you fail to shield grab after the jab in time, or you fail horrendously at timing the CC grab after the initial shield grab.

Marth only loses to Peach if he makes really, really nasty errors that get him gimped or comboed when he shouldn't be. Or it's a dumb level.
 

Retroking2000

Smash Master
Joined
Oct 30, 2006
Messages
3,577
Location
London , Silver Street
you would be surprised one slash of >B restricts her game and her just moving so freely

dash attack her as soon as she pulls out turnips she will lose them



every peach plays defends / attacks in specific ways from the norm but you have to find out how to get clean grabs on her . dtilt iasa Dash dance ( bait action ) grab is usually how i get my grabs off in peach.

one thing you will just need to give focus on is how the peach spotdodges or does in a victim suitation after you have attacked or what not .

but you dont even have to do it just spacing her constantly will make her move likely to guard in the suitations a simple DD bait grab is all you need .

for every marth we want to jump but we dont want to jump near a peach even though we are tempted to think we might hit them most of the time thats the case we do get hits but you dont want her to trade hits with you or worse you miss the hit and its open target .
 

Radical Dreamer

Smash Ace
Joined
May 14, 2007
Messages
827
Peach goes with Puff and Samus in the group of characters that Marth has an advantage over because he outspaces them and they don't have the speed to break through. As a Marth player you still have to be careful though, because you have to hit them thirty times to kill them while they can kill you in just a few hits. These matchups can be tricky at first because Marth relies on edgeguards for his kills more than anyone else, which doesn't work nearly as well against these characters (well, against Samus it kind of does). You need to learn to play differently against them than you would against edgeguard-able characters, you need to be patient, and you need to accept the fact that some of their stocks will go to very high percents.

As far as tips for killing go, start out by banning Dreamland and hoping they don't ban Yoshi's story, if you're playing a tournament match. Most Peaches are smart enough to ban Yoshi's though, so if they do, I would say Battlefield is the next best choice. Fsmash and upsmash are guaranteed tippers through the platforms if you can get the spacing right, and utilt works and is pretty easy to hit with. FoD you can hit through platforms but she can dsmash when the they're low. PS has the lowest ceiling of legal stages but I don't think it's good because of the stage transformations.

Actual kill suggestions:

1) Once Peach starts reaching higher percents (100+), start punishing dash attacks with up+b out of shield instead of shieldgrab. It's the most powerful non-tipper move that Marth has.

2) When you get a grab at like 80 to 120 percent, fthrow can combo into wavedash fsmash depending on their DI, especially if you fthrow them off the stage. It may not work all the time, but it will definitely work some of the time, so it's worth trying.

3) Some Peaches are aware of the fthrow to wd fsmash and will DI down so that they can tech into the stage. If they do this, just try tech-chasing into fsmash. If you can hit a tipper, you might get a kill.

4) Uthrow kills at about %200. Obviously that's really high, but it's there if you need it, since you'll probably be able to get grabs at really high percents.

5) Ken combos. They work against Peach very well. Peach's recovery, though good, doesn't go high enough to deal with getting spiked, and it's pretty easy to chain a series of fairs together on her. If you watch just about any M2K vid against Peach there will probably be a Ken combo in it.
 

Archangel

Smash Hero
Joined
Dec 4, 2008
Messages
6,453
Location
Wilmington, Delaware
NNID
combat22386
It's weird but I have a fairly good MU against most peaches for some reason now. Probably because a little over a year ago she was my worst MU with every character and I practiced the match for ever. All you have to do is dodge turnips and grabs and not get to confident in your range and launch stupid attacks at her and get Dsmashed. Be patient and take your time in getting the kills. Also do not try and be too fancy or it could cost you the stock or the match. See M2K vs Armada.:urg:
 

Dynamism?

Smash Champion
Joined
Mar 25, 2008
Messages
2,136
Location
BC, Canaaaanada
I wouldn't consider YS that bad for Peach against anyone, including Marth.

He needs room and if she gets to the middle, she can control that small stage. Sure she dies easier, but she has more chances of hitting you too and she hits harder.
 

Archangel

Smash Hero
Joined
Dec 4, 2008
Messages
6,453
Location
Wilmington, Delaware
NNID
combat22386
FD is surely in Marth's favor against Peach. She's got no where to go when she's being juggled. I said M2K vs Armada in reference to doing something fancy. M2K was so caught up being himself and cool and great and yeah....he forgot to win......lol

As for Yoshi's Peach can hold her own on that stage better than some but still she can be UpTilt killed or even UpThrown from the top and Uair killed or in some cases the throw alone will kill her...It's just to small a ceiling for her.
 
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