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Match-Ups

Bouse

Smash Ace
Joined
May 23, 2008
Messages
720
Location
MD
Any of you have some suggestions against a G&W player? **** turtle/key of god/MasterCard are all so hard to get around because of their range/priority over many moves. My friend uses him and he is a very airel player, and the only real thing that I have been successful doing is up smashing but that can get very predictable after awhile. Also since ZSS's paralyzer is slow he is able to fill his bucket sometimes. )= is there any hope lol?
Don't use moves that'll leave you vulnerable when he's high up. Do a couple fake aerial approaches and try to make him use his D-Air. That way you can just get in position and Side-Special, D-Smash, and whatnot.

Also your D-tilt is godly against him, and spamming grabs generally puts him in the air. So either scare him into going aerial and use your U-Special, Up Smash, or do a SH U-Air.

The one issue I do have fighting Game and Watch is because of anticipating a DI from throws. All of them look, relatively the same. Also his Up+Smash, and Side-Smash are the two moves you want to avoid entirely. Don't get to close and keep enough pressure and spacing so you don't get Flaming-Poop-on-a-sticked.
 

Bouse

Smash Ace
Joined
May 23, 2008
Messages
720
Location
MD
Sorry about the double post:

Oddly enough Pokemon trainer, specifically Squirtle. Charizard and Ivysaur are generally easy to KO, but Squirtle is an annoying little prick. He's fast, hard to hit, and has easily spammable thrusting aerials.
 

Pink-eye

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 10, 2008
Messages
144
i find squirtle to be annoying also, when my friend uses him, i just play chase and dodge till he has to change pokemon

not really a tactic, just my way of handiling it :D
 

DarkShadowRage

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 17, 2008
Messages
1,114
Location
Texas
NNID
DarkShadowRage
3DS FC
0534-0479-5837
Switch FC
SW-6587-7751-8591
I hate lucario, I freaking hate him...
His chain grab is annoying as piss, I can't even win against him because I got no strats against him...so I end up getting wasted. it's hard also to approch with his constant aura sphear spam and I can't even get behind to attack which really pisses me off.
 

Bouse

Smash Ace
Joined
May 23, 2008
Messages
720
Location
MD
Just work on DI'ing out of the chain grab, but basically keep your distance. Side/Neutral B are your best bets to rack up damage. Do your best to fake him out in the air, and just do your best to kill him pre-110%. He's a pain in the ***, probably one of the better Zero Suit counters, and the closer you get him to death the closer he is to killing you.
 

Snakeee

Smash Master
Joined
Jul 5, 2007
Messages
3,904
Location
Staten Island, NY
I hate lucario, I freaking hate him...
His chain grab is annoying as piss, I can't even win against him because I got no strats against him...so I end up getting wasted. it's hard also to approch with his constant aura sphear spam and I can't even get behind to attack which really pisses me off.
Um...I really don't get chain grabbed by him. You sure he can do that to ZSS?
Though, yeah he is definitely one of ZSS' hardest match ups.
 

Harkness

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jun 20, 2008
Messages
100
Location
Delaware
Umm... I need some help. Can anyone help me with a good strategy against kirby? my friend is quite annoying as him and keeps on canceling my arial combos with his down-b attack. Its driving me insane!!!
 

oze6000

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 22, 2008
Messages
99
Location
Oregon
For the G&W conversation, i treat him kinda like a would toon like. Put him up in the air and bait him to use his dair on top of you. It is easy to dodge if you expect it, then you can punish easily with a side B or combos, depending on his percent.
 

DarkShadowRage

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 17, 2008
Messages
1,114
Location
Texas
NNID
DarkShadowRage
3DS FC
0534-0479-5837
Switch FC
SW-6587-7751-8591
Falco...I hate you... -.-...he's almost as bad as lucario, I can't even space myself away from falco long enough to even attack...bloody reflector into a Fsmash...

ZSS is like nothing vs him...the current description didn't really help in trying to go up against him.
Anyone have any idea how to deal with this **** annoying bird?
 

fkacyan

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 15, 2008
Messages
6,226
Um...hello, is no one willing to help me battle an avid kirby user kirby here?
Kirby > ZSS.

He has better recovery, good 'combos', a chain grab early on, and he also has your stun gun if he so chooses.
 

DeliciousCake

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 20, 2007
Messages
1,969
Location
Fairfax, VA
3DS FC
4313-1513-6404
Falco...I hate you... -.-...he's almost as bad as lucario, I can't even space myself away from falco long enough to even attack...bloody reflector into a Fsmash...

ZSS is like nothing vs him...the current description didn't really help in trying to go up against him.
Anyone have any idea how to deal with this **** annoying bird?
His chain-throw doesn't work on ZSS, thankfully. Second, attempting to spike you with his d-air will fail if you react quickly enough with the tether. It's just a matter of getting close enough to him.
 

DarkShadowRage

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 17, 2008
Messages
1,114
Location
Texas
NNID
DarkShadowRage
3DS FC
0534-0479-5837
Switch FC
SW-6587-7751-8591
His chain-throw doesn't work on ZSS, thankfully. Second, attempting to spike you with his d-air will fail if you react quickly enough with the tether. It's just a matter of getting close enough to him.
He's all up in my face i don't have to worry about him getting close.
He spam's the hell out of the reflector too.
 

DarkShadowRage

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 17, 2008
Messages
1,114
Location
Texas
NNID
DarkShadowRage
3DS FC
0534-0479-5837
Switch FC
SW-6587-7751-8591
If he can read your every move, then try to find a way to be unpredictable. Don't focus on your character intently. Focus on Falco and see how he reacts to you when you're coming toward him.
It's not the fact of being predictable. More like I have played with him for months against his ganondorf, finally BEATING his ganon for once.

But he has gotten so used to my ZSS, it's futile to even try to hit him even when I do mix it up.

He will dodge it all.
 

Crystanium

Smash Hero
Joined
Apr 28, 2008
Messages
5,921
Location
California
It's not the fact of being predictable. More like I have played with him for months against his ganondorf, finally BEATING his ganon for once.

But he has gotten so used to my ZSS, it's futile to even try to hit him even when I do mix it up.

He will dodge it all.
I know exactly what you mean. However, if you could explain a few things that you do that he counters, we might be able to help.
 

DarkShadowRage

Smash Lord
Joined
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Messages
1,114
Location
Texas
NNID
DarkShadowRage
3DS FC
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He will dodge any attempts I make with forward B, he will get into my face and i can't get away.
Knock me down with reflector, beat out my air games. useully finish me off with a Fsmash. He will dodge any Dsmash attempts as well.

I get lucky if I can KO him, but before I even KO Him..the first time he's like 2 lives ahead of me...so annoying.

Basicly, since we play each other so much he can read me like a book -.- even when I do change my game up.
 

Crystanium

Smash Hero
Joined
Apr 28, 2008
Messages
5,921
Location
California
He will dodge any attempts I make with forward B, he will get into my face and i can't get away.
Knock me down with reflector, beat out my air games. useully finish me off with a Fsmash. He will dodge any Dsmash attempts as well.

I get lucky if I can KO him, but before I even KO Him..the first time he's like 2 lives ahead of me...so annoying.

Basicly, since we play each other so much he can read me like a book -.- even when I do change my game up.
If you know these things, then why do you continue to get punished for using them? Surely you've come to recognize what he does. Try to figure out ways of countering his attacks. You know that you can spot-dodge or shield if he attacks. If you spot-dodge while he tries his f-smash, guess what? You have options. You can grab him and put in a few jabs, then slam him against the ground and perform the u-air. You could use your d-smash or other attacks when he misses. If it helps, use the C-stick, that is, if you haven't been using it. Oh, and try to keep a positive attitude. :D
 

DarkShadowRage

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 17, 2008
Messages
1,114
Location
Texas
NNID
DarkShadowRage
3DS FC
0534-0479-5837
Switch FC
SW-6587-7751-8591
If you know these things, then why do you continue to get punished for using them? Surely you've come to recognize what he does. Try to figure out ways of countering his attacks. You know that you can spot-dodge or shield if he attacks. If you spot-dodge while he tries his f-smash, guess what? You have options. You can grab him and put in a few jabs, then slam him against the ground and perform the u-air. You could use your d-smash or other attacks when he misses. If it helps, use the C-stick, that is, if you haven't been using it. Oh, and try to keep a positive attitude. :D
That's the thing, I try to predict him and he's always a step ahead of me.
I always use the C-stick with her. I guess i've had a crappy day after not being able to touch him in a training round at all. he will get around my grab attempts, he will dodge my d-smash. he will hit me out of my u-airs. He know's how my ZSS works so he has a counter for just about everything I can throw at him -.-;
 

oze6000

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 22, 2008
Messages
99
Location
Oregon
Yeah falco seems to be a bad matchup for ZSS, i get worked by everyone i see, i don't always lose but even when i'm clearly better than them, with any character they choose, and they pull out falco, i have a hard time winning.

You have a second character you could use? I have to stoop down to Meta knight to beat my brother who camps as pit with arrow spam and power shield to smash attacks if i get close.
 

DarkShadowRage

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 17, 2008
Messages
1,114
Location
Texas
NNID
DarkShadowRage
3DS FC
0534-0479-5837
Switch FC
SW-6587-7751-8591
Yeah falco seems to be a bad matchup for ZSS, i get worked by everyone i see, i don't always lose but even when i'm clearly better than them, with any character they choose, and they pull out falco, i have a hard time winning.

You have a second character you could use? I have to stoop down to Meta knight to beat my brother who camps as pit with arrow spam and power shield to smash attacks if i get close.
I Have two other characters, Zelda and Pit.
And **** it that "Impossibilitiess" ad is getting annoying.

Even though CPU's make one suck, I wonder if I fight the Falco CPU enough I can learn to avoid most of falco's attacks but that wouldn't help much in the end, but atleast I could possibly be used to them..
 

ph00tbag

C(ϾᶘϿ)Ͻ
Joined
Mar 16, 2007
Messages
7,245
Location
NC
I Have two other characters, Zelda and Pit.
And **** it that "Impossibilitiess" ad is getting annoying.

Even though CPU's make one suck, I wonder if I fight the Falco CPU enough I can learn to avoid most of falco's attacks but that wouldn't help much in the end, but atleast I could possibly be used to them..
Falco CPUs don't spam lasers.
 

Phazonin

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jun 17, 2008
Messages
37
Can anybody help me with a problematic Olimar I've been facing? It seems like all he does is spam the Pikmin throw, I try to approach and he shield grabs. In the air I don't fair well either since it seems like all of his attacks have priority over mine. Gimping his recovery is great but I just can't seem to send him flying easy. Help.
 

ph00tbag

C(ϾᶘϿ)Ͻ
Joined
Mar 16, 2007
Messages
7,245
Location
NC
Bairs shrug off Pikmin really well, and have little lag. Your Plasma Whip outranges all of Olimar's moves. Space well with Plasma Whip and stay out of grab range. Get him off the stage and then edgehog him.

I'm not saying it's easy. That's just your general strategy.
 

DeliciousCake

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 20, 2007
Messages
1,969
Location
Fairfax, VA
3DS FC
4313-1513-6404
Easiest thing I find against Olimar is to get under him in the air. He flounders big time in that position. But yeah, definitely stay out of grab range since he has quite a bit of range with those blue Pikmin and very little lag time. Also, if you have to, take a few hits from thrown Pikmin if you have to. Prioritize getting off white Pikmin and jabbing purple Pikmin. Shield works equally as well, but watch for grabs.
 

FoolyCoolyGamer

Smash Cadet
Joined
Feb 19, 2008
Messages
28
Diddy Kong to Zero Suit Samus is a somewhat even match, if not for the fact that ZSS's moves have more range than Diddy's. While Diddy can move swifter and combo easier, what he lacks is some great KO moves. Also, since he falls fast, it can be amazingly easy to just juggle him with uair, then finish with B air. Another disadvantage is that his recovery can be countered very easily. If he uses the rocket barrels to boost, I usually use flip jump out of kick to destroy the barrels and make him fall down to the bottom, or it'll spike him.

His dash attack can outbeat ZSS and hits faster, however, I find it easier to shield grab him since he has a bit of lag behind some of his moves, particularly his ftilt.
 

NickRiddle

#negativeNick
Joined
Jan 3, 2006
Messages
9,913
Location
Florida
Um...hello, is no one willing to help me battle an avid kirby user kirby here?
I play the best Kirby in FL pretty often, so I believe I'm pretty good at this matchup.

ZSS is actually harder for Kirby to combo than most characters in the game. His only true combo gets you from 0 ~ 35 before you can jump out of it. That being said, this fight is still not easy. Around 90% ~ 100% his f-smash can and will kill you. From what I've seen, when you are in that area, Kirby users will try to fake you out until you do something that will let him connect with his f-smash...This move is also bigger than it looks so be wary. Make sure you do not recover predictably since his Dair can spike you and it starts pretty quickly.

When Kirby is at the peak of his Final Cutter (Up-B) at the point where the sword goes under him, he is vulnerable to any attack you want and you will not be punished for it. If he tries to recover from above, a spaced Bair and Uair will trade hits with his sword.


Has anybody said anything about Pikachu yet? I don't think so...But, just in case.

Pikachu is small, fast, and can CG for a while. His fair traps you, and has very little after lag so he can hit you again. Thankfully Pikachu cannot kill very well. DI his d-smash holding UP and you will go flying to the side before it is done. Beware of high-up thunders around 70% and higher. Stun gun is a good way to deal with his QAC. (Quick-attack cancel)

>B has much more range than anything he has. Up-B can be cancelled out by his Dair, so don't be so quick to use it. Thunder-jolt can gimp your second jump making edgeguarding easy. Thankfully, Pikachu is very light, and dies at around 70% from a fresh >B, disregarding the fact that >B is usually never fresh (save when you respawn), and 80% or so from a big-height bair.

Not much help, but it is something.
 

Sesshomuronay

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 21, 2008
Messages
1,458
Location
Canada, British Columbia
Does anyone know how to deal with bowser? There are no videos of him and little advice. I wont take "Bowser is weak own him" for an answer because if you say that then you have clearly never fought a good bowser.
 

FoolyCoolyGamer

Smash Cadet
Joined
Feb 19, 2008
Messages
28
Well I'm not entirely sure if this would help, but I want to at least give my take on the fight.
Bowser is heavy, but also powerful. His F-smash has a bit of lethal range on it, plus his bowsercide technique can leave you high and dry. However, his attacks in the air aren't that hot, so use that to your advanctage. If he tries to Down B, just wait for it, dodge, and charge up your D smash and repeat it again to set him up for a combo. Also, use his lack of speed against him by using mind games and traps. using paralyzer shots short, then rushing him with a dash attack combo can fix his little game quick.
 

DeliciousCake

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 20, 2007
Messages
1,969
Location
Fairfax, VA
3DS FC
4313-1513-6404
Stun combos should work fairly well as he's a large target. Your range on him should give you a significant advantage as well.
 

Villi

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 12, 2007
Messages
1,370
Location
California
It seems that good bowsers like to camp up in the air, funnily enough, by airdodging and koopa hopping until you run into it or he sees an opening. If you can see an opening where you can rush under him and usmash or upb, take full advantage. His upb out of sheild is deadly, so don't rush into his sheild. Expect him to space very well -- he's very large and hard to avoid when he's close. Nair is good for getting him away from you if he gets you in the air. If you get a chance to combo him, go for it -- otherwise, keep your distance with side and neutral b. Be careful of his down b -- punish it before it punishes you. Abuse dsmash for all it's worth, your down b is good for getting around him in a pinch for mixing up your defense. Punish his laggy moves with grabs -- but don't whiff for the love of cake.

I just fought the campiest arrow spammiest Pit I've ever played in all my brawl experience. All he did was roll to the edges of the stage, as far away from me as he could get and force me to approach through his arrows. As soon as I got close, he would either attempt to escape by rolling or roll around me trying to get an fsmash or grab in.

Powershielding as you walk is your friend. Short hop over his straight arrows, short hop air dodge to landed shield also works as an approach. When you're close enough, time a SH neutral b to intercept his arrow and shield grab him. You might be able to work in a neutral b to dash grab depending on how hard he's mashing b. Be patient and rack up damage with grabs, upb, tilts, and dash -> utilt combos. As soon as he reaches 100% start spacing side b tippers as you dodge. Fair's second hit will trade hits with his fsmash if you see an opportunity. As soon as he's a stock down, keep your advantage. He can't kill you with arrows, so let him rack up damage while you camp him back with b and side b until he's at critical% for an aerial or fsmash kill.
 

MRTW113

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 17, 2008
Messages
341
In regard to Kirby, his dair actually has some obvious start up time, where he stretches out his legs and then begins to drill. Compared to his faster fair and Hammer, attacking from below with uair and usmash, seems good, as Stone also has significant startup time, and you can airdodge, fastfall, and then grab and punish kirby after if he tries that.
 
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