Match-Ups

[Snakeee]

Metaknight
- First off, Down B is your best friend for getting out of Metas combos. Many believe this to be a bad match up, but I think it's only slightly in Metas favor, and this is one of the biggest reasons. He cannot accurately combo ZSS if you play smart and can predict a lot of his attacks. Down B right as he does his Up B is a nice tactic especially. Besides Down B you want to be airdodging a lot, but don't airdodge or down B predictably.

- Catch him with forward Bs when you have the spacing especially while he is in the air.

- Shoot paralyzer shots from a distance, but he can tornado through them. If he starts using the tornado a lot there are a couple things you can do to stop it, but they are situational. One thing you can do is grab him through the tornado Another is d smash the tornado, but that is much harder to time correctly. Both of these will only work if Meta is low enough to the ground at that point.

- I believe your B air BARELY outranges all of his aerials. With good spacing you can challenge him in the air...except for his up B.

- Up air is a good kill move against Meta. He is light, and you should have good opportunities to catch him in the air with it.

EDIT: Sorry for the double post

 

[Tsen]

use the edit button instead of double posts, just a thought

 

[Dee 187]

can someone plz give some pointer on how to combat kirby. my spaceing is good but it hard to catch kirby or smash him because of his small hitbox and SH bair & fair ownz most of my attacks to the point it annoy. and he shield grabs like crazy just need a few pointer please and thank.

 

[DarkShadowRage]

anyone know anything best against diddy? he's so annoying..

 

[Snakeee]

anyone know anything best against diddy? he's so annoying..

Not gonna write a whole Diddy strategy at the moment, but one quick pointer is dash attack grab his bananas off the floor, and use your broken glide toss to throw them back at him
You can also down b footstool jump the banans as they're flying towards you...
God I love that special footstool.

 

[DarkShadowRage]

Not gonna write a whole Diddy strategy at the moment, but one quick pointer is dash attack grab his bananas off the floor, and use your broken glide toss to throw them back at him
You can also down b footstool jump the banans as they're flying towards you...
God I love that special footstool.

Oh I love it as well, yeah I know what you mean.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQ35idf6M_8&fmt=18

here is an example match, I won however... but his diddy drives me nuts.

 

[fkacyan]

Oh I love it as well, yeah I know what you mean.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQ35idf6M_8&fmt=18

here is an example match, I won however... but his diddy drives me nuts.

Rather, it drives you bananas.

I have some issues with ROB myself.

 

[DarkShadowRage]

Rather, it drives you bananas.

I have some issues with ROB myself.

XD good point! it does Dive me Banana's!

 

[Pink-eye]

does someone have a stradegy for luigis?

 

[ph00tbag]

Another thing that I've noticed about Snake:

I see a lot of Zamuses charging up paralyzer to knock out Nikita missiles. It's unintuitive, but I've had much more success knocking out Nikitas with an uncharged paralyzer. Food for thought.

 

[DarkShadowRage]

Another thing that I've noticed about Snake:

I see a lot of Zamuses charging up paralyzer to knock out Nikita missiles. It's unintuitive, but I've had much more success knocking out Nikitas with an uncharged paralyzer. Food for thought.

Good to know!

 

[Snakeee]

The Nikita isn't even that useful though and good Snake players don't really use it.
I don't think PC Chris used it once against me.
Still useful though for when they do use it.

 

[Tsen]

Snakes = f-tilt, u-tilt- jab combos, grabs, c4/mine plants, snakedashing and good old roll dropped nades

 

[ph00tbag]

I realize most good Snakes don't use Nikita missiles, the missile's weakness against paralyzer is as good a reason as any not to use it. You may as well keep it in mind, though, if you're facing off against a not-so-good Snake, one could say not doing so would make one a not-so-good Zamus.

 

[DarkShadowRage]

Anyone know what to do against a **** toon link? FFS they are so effing annoying and it's hard to hit the ******* because he is so quick and he's so **** over powered -.-

 

[Snakeee]

Anyone know what to do against a **** toon link? FFS they are so effing annoying and it's hard to hit the ******* because he is so quick and he's so **** over powered -.-

basically don't give him space. It might sound like the wrong thing to do, but if you play very fast and aggressive and get in his face a lot you can destroy him. A good thing to know is that you can Up-B through his D-air.

 

[DarkShadowRage]

basically don't give him space. It might sound like the wrong thing to do, but if you play very fast and aggressive and get in his face a lot you can destroy him. A good thing to know is that you can Up-B through his D-air.

Ah yes, Up-bing through his D-Air is a great move, also catching him with a forward B RIGHT after he throws his boomering which will useully result in an arrow after the boomerang throw.
Though the armor part's seem almost useless as his sheild blocks them if you try to start the match off with throwing the armor parts at him. So basicly just hold on to a part get behind him and just throw them at him though chances are he will get to your other two peices if you don't dispose of them.
Or unless you can create some crafty plan to nail him with all of them..

Also upon fighting him a bit more, keeping him in the air is the best thing you can do, constantly pummling him with a fair will get a few hits in, chances are you can hit him with two fair's before he plummets to the ground, but while in the air he will most likely follow with a bomb so watch out for that..

 

[Snakeee]

Sonic (copied from my post in the Sonic vs. ZSS topic)
It is actually a pretty awkward match up and I've had some trouble with him, but me and Wes (top Sonic player) usually go about even I think. I basically try to keep him at bay by retreating a lot, but hes insanely fast. His lack of priority isn't really that big of a deal against ZSS, because some of her priority is even worse. What seems to work the best is spacing good paralyzer shots in because it breaks his B moves and creates an opening, and then you can follow up with something such as a dash attack combo. The thing that annoys me a lot vs. Sonic is that his d air seems to even break your Up-B, so he messes up your aerial game a lot.

 

[DarkShadowRage]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3q0ngxl_oO0&fmt=18
He's not the best toon link ever, though I still had alot of trouble with him, He abuses Dair alot though I had to bait him into using it over the pit during the battle because I knew he'd try to hit me with it.
It'd still give you a little idea.

Also, I wasnt at my best in this one apparently because it was rather hard for me in this match up.

 

[Johnthegalactic]

I find this interesting about
TLoonks D-air, there is harmless wind that pushing you away from him a short distance, I never thought of it until now, but it seems he is setting us up for one of Zs Samus's moves, I better go make sure I am right.

 

[Ørion]

Hey, thanks for all your detailed information everyone! I can't believe how much this thread has grown (note: this is not a bump XD)

 

[BoredPeanut]

Okay sorry if people have been talking about Wolf vs Zamus already and I just missed it but. I've got a friend who mains Wolf, and he's pretty good. I can beat him in other match-ups but I really have to work hard to touch his Wolf. He laser spams, A LOT. It's hard for me to approach him with simple double jumps. I've kinda found crawling on the ground towards him useful for closing the gap but I was wondering if there was anything more effective? I can't really short hop to him most of the time because he tends to be too far away, and if I go for a double jump fair he sees it coming easily.

 

[ph00tbag]

Wolf's laser is really tough to get around. You basically have to predict if he's going to do it standing on the ground or in the air. If he's goes aerial, you crawl, if he standing lasers, you jump. He can only use his blaster so often, so you basically have to watch him and react to every thing he does.

 

[FoolyCoolyGamer]

I want to know if anyone has a good remedy against Ike. I figure that he's slow, so my speed can outshine him easily. Sure he's very strong, but I think if my paralyzer to up air then b air combo works, it should be fine, but does anyone have some better tips?

 

[DarkShadowRage]

I want to know if anyone has a good remedy against Ike. I figure that he's slow, so my speed can outshine him easily. Sure he's very strong, but I think if my paralyzer to up air then b air combo works, it should be fine, but does anyone have some better tips?

When I face an ike, I know they will occasionally use quick draw.
When you see them starting it up, run up there and sheild, but stop half way and force them to use quick draw then grab them outta the sheild. Something they always fall for.

Also, you can stop them in the quick draw with the paralyzer, wait for them to launch and then fire a shot, and they will be stunned before they reach you.

You can also stop the quick draw with the forward B, apparently quick draw isnt quick enough.

Ike's smash attacks are slow, some ike users will probably charge their smash, so when they do wait for them to finish it then bolt towards them and get behind them quick or be at a safe distance and make your approch.

You can hit them with a forward B right after his Fsmash lands on the ground, then kick him in the air with a few aerials if you can manage it.

 

[Bouse]

About Snake:
I've found that a properly utilized down B can make a Snake's charge useless. If you start out facing Snake, as he charges, Down+B to your back and dependent on what is the best direction to aim your kick you generally gain solid ground on Snake using this.
I find it useful to use this mainly because snakes tend to charge at about the half distance of the move so generally.
Snake Starts : , ZSS: , Snakes charge end point: (), ZSS's landing point: ()
_______________________( )_( )


About Lucario:
I recently fought someone who I have to say was an immaculate Lucario player. I feel that this is a character who can throw Zamus off balance because not only does he have solid aerials that can combat Zamus' if he plays a fairly evasive and defensive game he'll actually end up ruining you. Either that or it's all in the approach.

Here's how I see it based on Lucario's damage.
1-80%=Low probability of killing a solid player unless you can back him into a corner, so to speak.
80-110%=Where you NEED to kill him. Medium probability.
110%+=Dear lord kill him before he hits even harder.

Your up aerial is your best bet of killing Lucario because of how light he is. HOWEVER approaching him properly is everything since he has equally nasty aerials, and remember the closer he is to dead the closer he is to killing you.


About Link:
To be honest, Link can be a difficult matchup when played by an intelligent person. Mainly you want to keep pressure on him so he can't breathe without getting kicked in the face by you. The issue is getting close to him and not getting eaten up by his quick reactionary moves like his up+b.

A very fun thing to do is Gale Riding. Now most of the time a Link will try to use his gale to his advantage, and most of the time it will gain him little more than mildly disorienting his opponent. But a charged up Dsmash, an over B, or even a Fsmash become much more mobile. Also when Gale Riding, fire a preemptive shot from your paralyzer. Generally you can time it so that you have a small amount of protection from a possible projectile fired by Link such as his arrows.

Also if you notice the Link not cooking his bombs, punish him for this. If he wants to give you a free projectile let him. Generally when it starts flashing red you have 3 seconds till it goes boom.

 

[DarkShadowRage]

About marth, when attacking him the air..the user I fight ALWAYS uses counter in mid air, defeating any of my air attacks...what can one do about this?

 

[-Steed-]

DSR-You could try and wait for the counter to finish and strike on the little bit of lag when it's finished

 

[DarkShadowRage]

Except, he will counter ALL the way down. it's hard to predict the window of oppertunity.

 

[Bouse]

DSR, try to figure out EXACTLY where his counter hits. Then just stay out of it's attack range and just use your F-aerial. It eats the counter and you hit him with the stronger attack. Also, timing your Down+B to fake him out can mess with him pretty decently. I know his counter lasts as my friend refers to it "the lunar cycle", but once you eat up his counter he's proper ****ed.

Edit: You can't hit him with the stronger attack but you can still eat his counter and miss the attack arc, it still gives you an opening to nail him in the face though.

 

[DarkShadowRage]

I do know one thing though, Ike's counter can be cancled, I have baird him out of the counter many times.
This was in mid air, by the way.

 

[Snakeee]

Ok, I've gotten really good against Marth and DDD now so heres the basic play you should have (the marth advice is better and more to the point then my last post):

Marth - Camp him until you create an opening with both retreating forward-Bs and paralyzer shots. You don't want him to get in close to you. Once you get a hit in, or at least have him shield at pretty close range, you should mostly just try to get him in the air. Once you do that, he is easily juggled. Use Forward B off the stage usually for edgeguarding. If he comes in from below, you can time a D-smash to hit him under the stage and stage spike him by running off and B-airing him.

DDD - Complete opposite of what I said to do against Marth. DDD can outcamp you so don't really bother too much with that. You want to try to close the gap, run up to him and try to powershield Waddle Dees on the way. Once you get in close your up-tilt and up smash work very well on him, and you'll be able to get him in the air. He is a big target so your Forward B, up smash, and up-b can hit quite easily. Also, if he recovers onto the stage with his Up-B, you can up air him if you have good spacing without getting hit by the attack (a bit risky if you don't have this down though). However, the safest thing to do is Up-B him from below as he cannot hit you at all with that. Another good thing to note is that you can forward-b his hand while he is holding onto the ledge once he loses his invincibility.

 

[Snakeee]

About marth, when attacking him the air..the user I fight ALWAYS uses counter in mid air, defeating any of my air attacks...what can one do about this?

So then don't go for an up aerial. He can't counter an Up- B or upsmash mid air now can he?
Marth is very vulnerable in the air.

 

[Pink-eye]

can someone post something on how to defeat a luigi please, my friend is really good with him, he usually wins about 4 out of 5 rounds against me

 

[Bouse]

Luigi is all about spacing, you outrange him with your side+b, and can cancel his projectile with your gun. Just don't get caught in his "fists of fury".

 

[M@v]

About marth, when attacking him the air..the user I fight ALWAYS uses counter in mid air, defeating any of my air attacks...what can one do about this?

A. neutral air? It got some range, so there is a chance it might outrange his counter, leaving him open.
B. Down B. Fake that your going for your down b kick on him. Do the jump within kicking range but dont execute the kick. Hopefully he will jump the gun and counter. Then he's all yours.
C. Get below him.
D. Attack with up smash or up b from the ground.(kinda hard in your situation though.

 

[Bouse]

1. Have you tried his neutral air? It has some range so there is a chance it might outrange his counter, which will leave him open.
2. Use the Down B. Use the jump within kicking range but don't execute the kick. Hopefully he will jump the gun and counter leaving him open.
3. All your bottoms are belong to us.
4. Use your Up Smash or Up Special attack.

Now I posted this to show you two things:
1. How to post in a slightly more intelligent way.
2. Please read previous posts and don't repeat information.

Thank you kindly,
The Brawling Bouse

 

[Rebelli0n]

Any of you have some suggestions against a G&W player? **** turtle/key of god/MasterCard are all so hard to get around because of their range/priority over many moves. My friend uses him and he is a very airel player, and the only real thing that I have been successful doing is up smashing but that can get very predictable after awhile. Also since ZSS's paralyzer is slow he is able to fill his bucket sometimes. )= is there any hope lol?

 

[ph00tbag]

A. neutral air? It got some range, so there is a chance it might outrange his counter, leaving him open.

It's got a lot of range, but I'm pretty sure Counter would hit back. It's best to space with other specials, and/or usmash.

 

[DarkShadowRage]

Any of you have some suggestions against a G&W player? **** turtle/key of god/MasterCard are all so hard to get around because of their range/priority over many moves. My friend uses him and he is a very airel player, and the only real thing that I have been successful doing is up smashing but that can get very predictable after awhile. Also since ZSS's paralyzer is slow he is able to fill his bucket sometimes. )= is there any hope lol?

Only use paralyzer when you catch him off guard, other wise don't use it.
Stick to Dsmash.